BajaNomad - Entering Mexico present conditions

Entering Mexico present conditions

dianaji - 5-5-2009 at 05:57 PM

i have not been to la mision for about a month and wonder how conditions are driving through the border...with the swine flu thing. the last time i was there i left feeling disappointed. i got a taste of having people not keep their word, not finishing a job...all of that. the electric poles are up, however, no electricity as yet. it's difficult to find someone in the community to tell me what's going on, what's being done and why there is no electricity yet. it is very discouraging. seems i have to drive all the way there to find out.

since my home here in the U.S. is still not sold, i don't know if i'll ever get there. if anyone knows of someone that might want to rent my place, please u2 me.

thanks for listening.

diana

Osprey - 5-5-2009 at 06:49 PM

You sound very confused, helpless. Your first posts announced the arrival of a free spirit, a confident adventurer. You were tentative, unorganized. I had a hard time believing you were doing adult things. Not many on the board would have advised the way you carved out a spartan environement for yourself. We said that. You scoffed and said you were dedicated. You ask us how/where to buy bread, water. No other gringos I can remember on this board showed less resources, less gumption than you have exibited so far. I'm looking for the day you make a breakthrough -- find some water/doughnuts/molding clay/electricity/happiness in Baja California.

fishbuck - 5-5-2009 at 07:08 PM

Try not to get discouraged. It does take patience. I wish I had solid advice for you but I'm sort of a newbie also.
There are some very knowlegable people on here and maybe they can help.
Don't give up you dream!

David K - 5-5-2009 at 07:08 PM

I think you should read 'God and Mr. Gomez' and learn about 'Mexican Time' and the reality of getting 'modern services' in a Third World country...

With that said, I am sure we all want you to have a good Baja experience... But realize it will be a Baja/ Mexican experience... not like one you have ever had in San Marcos, CA or elsewhere north of the border.

Frankly, I am amazed that you actually got as much done as you have in so short a time... like moving a mobile home into Mexico.... YOU IMPRESSED US, Diana!

David K - 5-5-2009 at 07:36 PM

Oh, there was a 3 year old boy kidnapped in San Bernardino and the southbound cars are being inspected closely today, it was reported... So, some delays going south, perhaps.

Mexico

bajaguy - 5-5-2009 at 08:11 PM

Diana.......just as DavdK says, once you cross the border, you are on "Mexico Time".

Two suggestions:

Get and read "God and Mr Gomez" by Jack Smith (out of print, but can be obtained from Amazon.com).

If you want the job done to your specificatons, you have to be there......the job will get done, but probaby not on your timetable or schedule........

In Mexico you either have to be flexible or you will break.

Sempre Gumby (always flexible)

DENNIS - 5-5-2009 at 08:13 PM

It's Animal Farm. Pigs everywhere. Enter at your own risk.
oinkoinkoinkoinkoinkoinkoinkoinkoinkoinkoinkoinkoinkoinkoinkoinkoink

fishbuck - 5-5-2009 at 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS
It's Animal Farm. Pigs everywhere. Enter at your own risk.
oinkoinkoinkoinkoinkoinkoinkoinkoinkoinkoinkoinkoinkoinkoinkoinkoink

See, I told you there were knowledgable people in here! :lol:

susanna - 5-5-2009 at 08:50 PM

Good Luck, Mexico is not for everybody. I thought i wanted to retire in Baja but
found out it was not for me, I quess when you are used to having all the facilities we have here in the states it is hard to give them up, like paved roads and sidewalks.Too dusty for me. The best thing is you can always come back.

dianaji - 5-5-2009 at 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Osprey
You sound very confused, helpless. Your first posts announced the arrival of a free spirit, a confident adventurer.

Quote:

Originally posted by Osprey
You sound very confused, helpless. Your first posts announced the arrival of a free spirit, a confident adventurer.

not confused...helpless, no. or perhaps helpless in regards to wanting things done by my time...i am me, from the east, and mexico is mexico...however, there are many things i love about baja...a sense of freedom and doing "my thing."
i love this forum and all of the help and advice given... u have been my tour guides...restaurants, bakeries, roads, etc.

adventurer...absolutely. i will always be... and i ain't giving up. things change... i put my whole heart in this journey

thanks, diana

Bajahowodd - 5-5-2009 at 11:40 PM

Let's put this in some sort of perspective. Diana is looking to settle into a property in the La Mision area. Gentrified, close to the border. Not talking about off the grid stuff in BOLA, or Concepcion. She'll be close to coveted stuff like Walmart and Home Depot. If that's too scary for you, let me know what you want for your property.

Bajahowodd - 5-5-2009 at 11:41 PM

Gawd. Jack Smith was so awesome.

schwlind - 5-6-2009 at 12:42 AM

I ditto DavidK and Bajaguy's recommendation about reading "God and Mr. Gomez". I have it in hard cover as well as an absolutely fabulous Books-On-Tape version read by Michael Prichard. If you can ever find this audio version read by Prichard, you will not be disappointed.

I was first introduced to Baja in 1993 by a former Chi-town friend who moved to LA about 10 years prior. My friend was introduced to Baja by an LA friend of hers, whose uncle was an old time resident of San Antonio Del Mar, and quite a knowledgeable, gruff but endearing character of sorts.

My friend rented a little plot of land in San Antonio Del Mar (near Colonet) for $500 USD per year, had a pad poured by a local, who grew to be a terrific friend, and placed a tiny trailer on the site, on a beautiful bluff overlooking the magnificent Pacific and miles of pristine beaches.

I visited Baja as often as time would permit over the ensuing years, until we finally decided to buy a piece of this land with the hopes of eventually "living the retirement dream" in Baja California. My friends, far more intrepid than I, built houses first, and their "experiences" of building in Baja was quite the education for me. Even armed with the knowledge of my friends' experiences, and thinking that I could avoid their pitfalls, I set about finding a builder to finally build my dream retirement home in Baja.

After finding a builder in late 2002, I made my first road trip to Baja from the east coast of FL in 2003 (finally had enough of the northern climes' winters after 33 years of living in Chicago and moved to FL). I had somehow heard about "God and Mr. Gomez" and bought the audio version for my 3-1/2 day across country trip. The volumes of this delightful, often humorous book relating the writer's experiences of building in La Bocana, only added a greater degree of understanding about what "building in Baja" really translated to. Well, as is usually the case, despite my thinking that I knew what to expect, not much went as I had hoped for.

The bottom line is do not be discouraged, but realize if things take a year to accomplish in the states, be prepared for it to take 3 in Baja. Go with the knowledge that seldom do things happen or get completed on YOUR schedule, but will get done when they are done. Rather than becoming frustrated… soak in the beauty of the land, the charm of the people and their culture. You have accomplished much in a very brief time, so don't worry, be happy. Do what you can do, push for completion when and where you can and throw your frustration away when it doesn't go the way you want, when you want. I think one thing Baja is definitely teaching me… be patient… (which for this A-type personality… is a hard lesson learned… but I'm slowly making progress!)

Good Luck!
Linda

PS… While we were told the builder's work for our house would be completed by 3rd quarter 2003… it was actually December 2004 before the house was fully enclosed and the builder's portion of the work primarily completed. The builder was contracted to build the base structure including all interior partitioning for the various rooms, rough in the plumbing for water and gas and electrical. We would do all the finish work ourselves… While much has been accomplished since December 2004, our house is still a "work in progress", but we love it!

dianaji - 5-6-2009 at 06:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajahowodd
Let's put this in some sort of perspective. Diana is looking to settle into a property in the La Mision area. Gentrified, close to the border. Not talking about off the grid stuff in BOLA, or Concepcion. She'll be close to coveted stuff like Walmart and Home Depot. If that's too scary for you, let me know what you want for your property.

exactly! however, although a city girl, my heart belongs in the country... i want sustainable living, a compost pile, chickens, worms in the ground, a community around me...yet, i want lights, tv., internet...somewhere close to san diego where there is a TRADER JOES! patience??? what do i want for my property? i want my septic finished, the ground leveled so i can fill the ground with every kind of fruit tree that i can grow and, and, and... a place for my free spirit to grow and a place that doesn't say no to every simple little thing i need. i love the mountain in front of me and a view of the ocean to the side of me that is there in la mision. patience??? yes, this is perhaps what i must learn and i am being tested big time.

thanks for all and any encouragement.

diana

David K - 5-6-2009 at 09:12 AM

Another book that relates how things are done in Mexico (as far as building a house goes) is Ben Hunter's 'The Baja Feeling' c1978. A really good reading book about discovering Baja and finally building a home near Ensenada.

dianaji - 5-6-2009 at 09:22 AM

it's not so much the problems i am having with my cielo in la mision...it is the fact that i cannot be there to tend to things that need to be done. i am so ready to leave all behind in the states and let it all go...like give it away...however, that is so very naive...and unaffordable. so, i just trust that it's all good and perfect and i am exactly where i need to be...whether i think it or not...

gnukid - 5-6-2009 at 09:32 AM

Something I realized over time... what does it matter if it takes longer? You have the rest of your life to enjoy the project and when its done you'll start another. And besides the longer it takes to install electricity the more money you save...

Woooosh - 5-6-2009 at 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by dianaji

Quote:

Then hang in there! You've got the right attitude, even if not all the logistical and emotional tools you will need. Keep your watch running slow, your mind and ears open, mouth mostly closed and your skin thick. You have the plan and the money- so you are in control and don't forget that. Once everything is done and you are settled in- these challenging times will be a fond memory shared over drinks and food with your new Baja friends. Nothing runs smooth, nothing runs on time- the faster you can go with the flow the freer your mind will be to concentrate on the importnat things- your plantings and animals. JMHO though.

[Edited on 5-6-2009 by Woooosh]

dianaji - 5-6-2009 at 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by gnukid
Something I realized over time... what does it matter if it takes longer? You have the rest of your life to enjoy the project and when its done you'll start another. And besides the longer it takes to install electricity the more money you save...

yes, don't push the river! however, although i love to save, i also love action even more. although my spirit is young, i don't have as many years that u might imagine. so, i just carry on as well as i can and am adjusting to not having it happen RIGHT NOW!

dianaji - 5-6-2009 at 10:10 AM

whoosh, you said, "Then hang in there! You've got the right attitude, even if not all the logistical and emotional tools you will need. Keep your watch running slow, your mind and ears open, mouth mostly closed and your skin thick. You have the plan and the money- so you are in control and don't forget that. Once everything is done and you are settled in- these challenging times will be a fond memory shared over drinks and food with your new Baja friends. Nothing runs smooth, nothing runs on time- the faster you can go with the flow the freer your mind will be to concentrate on the importnat things- your plantings and animals. "

thanks whoosh,

my mind and ears are always open...my skin is not thick, (sigh). every day is a lesson. no, i don't have the money...however, i know how to handle the little i have. yes, "go with the flow"...that's the lesson.

rhintransit - 5-6-2009 at 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Osprey
You sound very confused, helpless. Your first posts announced the arrival of a free spirit, a confident adventurer. You were tentative, unorganized. I had a hard time believing you were doing adult things. Not many on the board would have advised the way you carved out a spartan environement for yourself. We said that. You scoffed and said you were dedicated. You ask us how/where to buy bread, water. No other gringos I can remember on this board showed less resources, less gumption than you have exibited so far. I'm looking for the day you make a breakthrough -- find some water/doughnuts/molding clay/electricity/happiness in Baja California.

I have to agree with Osprey who said it well.
so, as you are a city girl, wanting lights, tv, internet, Trader Joe's, as well as sustainable living, compost pile, chickens, etc...you can find that easily enough in the USA. given funds, the lack of which seems to be the bottom line. cheaper has its cost. Mexico is not just somewhere to live better on less and with less 'restrictions'...it comes complete with its own rules and rhythms. or as I call it...down the rabbithole country. it's not what you expect nor want, it is what it is. the faster you adjust, the sooner you will (may?) become happy with what is...
lowering your standards helps tremendously. the electricity will be in when it's in, the patio will be fine five feet to the left of where told the workers you wanted it, Pedro's cousin's brother-in-law's daughter's wedding will take precedence over roofing your shed, the lime tree you planted may bear oranges, etc etc etc. it's not the country you expect, but it can be the country you need. adjust. or go slightly nuts, like everyone else.

dianaji - 5-6-2009 at 10:35 AM

Quote:

well said! and i am finding all that u said...it's a trade off! :lol:

rhintransit - 5-6-2009 at 11:02 AM

ps...I can live a lot cheaper in the USA. I choose to live here. there's never a dull moment.

Phil S - 5-6-2009 at 08:38 PM

Is there a "fellow" Nomad who is either in the area often, or knows of someone who could "sort of" keep an eye on the project for her??????
i think for her "peace of mind", someone could step up to the plate and offer some assistance. Anyone out there can help????????

dianaji - 5-6-2009 at 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Phil S
Is there a "fellow" Nomad who is either in the area often, or knows of someone who could "sort of" keep an eye on the project for her??????
i think for her "peace of mind", someone could step up to the plate and offer some assistance. Anyone out there can help????????

that is very kind!

even if someone could call and ask the man in charge of the electricity installatiion to ask the status. i have tried to call and since he has a cell phone i cannot use my calling card...for his mexican #. that would be the best help of all. he is australian, therefore can speak english...

thanks,

diana

toneart - 5-6-2009 at 11:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by dianaji

Quote:

Diana,

What Phil S. suggests, I would say is manditory. Your reply is not clear to me. Is the Australian the one who is in charge of the electrical installation, or just someone you trust to check on things for you? How can a non-Mexican National be in charge of electrical installation? Do you know this guy well?

Regarding phone communication, it is your responsibility to make sure that you establish reliable phone service that works. If your calling card doesn't work for his cell, get something that does work. I can't stress enough the importance of having someone reliable there running the job. Even with that, it is no substitute for you being there throughout the whole construction.

There are so many ways to lose your investment in Mexico. You can do all your homework, cover all your bases legally and suddenly the whole game shifts. The solid ground of security you had under you feet suddenly and unexpectedly turns to quicksand. Now I am not saying it is impossible to achieve your dream, but I am saying you really have to be there to have the best chance at it. I realize you have said that you can't do that. I would put it off until you can arrange your life and finances to be able to be there.

The Mexican culture and ethics are very different than those of the U.S. From the Mexican worker's viewpoint, the most important thing is where is today's meal is going to come from and how can I support the niece's wedding, or get medical help for my sick wife or child. That is not entirely different from our immediate needs, but we have the opportunity to acquire more money faster.

So the Mexican plays the game: You give me the money and I will buy the materials and do the work. Well, you just said goodby to your money. You feel you have been cheated and lied to. The Mexican doesn't see it that way. He just got a bunch of money and was clueless as to how to manage it. It just disappears. He doesn't mean to cheat you. Circumstances just got in the way of your agreement and your money. He will tell you how poor he is, and how much he needs it, and that is very true.

The Mexican is a very nice person. He will cheerfully invite you into his house and soon you and his family are like one big family. He is sincere about that. You will never meet such gracious and polite people.

This is the BIG lesson to learn: He cannot bear to see you disappointed so he will say "Yes" to everything you ask for. Unfortunately, when he cannot meet that pledge, you won't be there to realize it. That will come at your next meeting but he won't have to face you until he does. Then he will try to make it right, but....you guessed it...it will take more money because the money you had already given him is gone. Never never advance money unless you are right there and it is just the amount needed to get started for that day. It is not a matter of trust. Forget that. In Mexico, trust is relative and does not hold the same value as the sense of trust that was instilled in you as a child.

Now, I may be a little jaded. Trust is a big issue for me. I know how good my word is and so I would assume others would also rise to that level. I have been often disappointed, in The United States as well as in Mexico. I had to learn those lessons the hard way. Consequently, trust, when it comes to money, is something I rarely allow myself to give.

Putting my value system aside, I have given you my experience and my understanding of the cultural differences, and this experience has been validated by many people who live here in Mulege who have had the building experience.

Follow your dream. Follow your intuition. Hold your trust in reserve. As a wise sage once said (perhaps more than once), "it is a game. Know the rules and play the game to win."

Best of luck, Diana! :yes:

Tony

dianaji - 5-7-2009 at 06:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by toneart

Diana,

What Phil S. suggests, I would say is manditory. Your reply is not clear to me. Is the Australian the one who is in charge of the electrical installation, or just someone you trust to check on things for you? How can a non-Mexican National be in charge of electrical installation? Do you know this guy well?

The australian is the liaison between the contractor who is mexican
who put the poles up and the community. He knows what the status is. i am not the only one who is waiting for the work to be complete. What u said is what i have found. i have to pay up front for materials of any work done and the balance after finished. yes, mexicans do things differently and i am adjusting to that. so, i agree that i must accept our differences. thank u for confirming that. for my dream, as i said, i'm not giving up...and yes, there are challenges.

diana

arrowhead - 5-7-2009 at 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by toneart
The Mexican culture and ethics are very different than those of the U.S. From the Mexican worker's viewpoint, the most important thing is where is today's meal is going to come from and how can I support the niece's wedding, or get medical help for my sick wife or child. That is not entirely different from our immediate needs, but we have the opportunity to acquire more money faster.

So the Mexican plays the game: You give me the money and I will buy the materials and do the work. Well, you just said goodby to your money.

I'm not sure I agree with your view. Millions of Mexicans work in factories and other businesses where they punch a clock, work diligently all day, and then punch out. It seems to me you are infantilizing a group of Mexican workers (albaniles) and apologizing for their conduct. When Hugo Torres builds his monuments to conspicuous consumption in Rosarito, you can bet that the workmen show up and put in a days work. I think the real problem is that these albaniles view their American customers as a low priority because once they are hired they are stuck. You can bet they wouldn't pull that crap with Hugo Torres or any other Mexican compa with any juice.

Phil S - 7-19-2009 at 11:23 PM

Did anyone cover the workmans compensation issues yet??? I reread this, but might have missed it. If someone is more versed here, jump right in. This one is really scary in my book. also the contributions for the "other' social services that must be paid to whomever in town. And if they aren't paid by you, then you can be liable down the road??????????