BajaNomad

1000 Rosarito families face eviction?

bajabound2005 - 5-13-2009 at 07:37 AM

This was posted on our local Yahoo group yesterday. Anyone have any further info?


1000 Rosarito families face eviction?

Latest News
Written by Baja Free Press
Monday, 11 May 2009
Rosarito, Baja California, Mexico - Yesterday members of the Terrazas Del Mar Homeowners Association met and discussed their impending eviction as a result of several fraudulent real estate transactions which began with Grupo Lagza and its owners Ricardo Zazueta and Carlos Lagos Yagues. Some had tears in their eyes and some faces were red with anger.
Residents stand to lose millions of dollars in land and materials used to build their homes over the past several years. UNICRECORPE was a small credit union who loaned money to the original owner of the property and is now dead. Lagza sold the properties to hundreds of families knowing they had a lien against them. The loan which was secured by all of the properties in Terrazas Del Mar is now being called and the whole caotic problem is being reviewed by a group of magistrates in Mexicali and a final decision is to be made on Tuesday May 12th. It takes three magistrates to decide in favor of the credit union but if just one of the magistrates decides against credit union then the residents will win.
One resident said "if they think the swine flu affected the mexican stock market wait until this hits the press." Many believe that if the story reaches China it could drastically affect how this Chinese are currently viewing Baja as a potential place for investments.
Many American residents are angry and have expressed their desire to continue with public protests which were going to happen last summer but Carlos Lagos Yagues and his attorneys Lic. Contreras met with Mayor Hugo Torres and signed an agreement to begin refunding money to property owners and/or replace their properties with one of equal value in other areas being sold by Grupo Lagza. Residents state that Grupo Lagza has not come through with their agreement.
One resident stated "If all goes negative against us we will continue with protests planned last summer." These protests include marches in Rosarito, and at the Mexican Consulate offices in San Diego and Tijuana. They stated that a plan to protest at the border to stop all traffic from going into Mexico may also be held in order to gain bi-national awareness of the fraudulent real estate transactions that occur in Mexico. Other groups will be passing out flyers to warn people to not buy real estate in Baja. Sales people from Grupo Lagza continue to sell parcels in Terrazas Del Mar without informing prospective buyers of the impending decision. Terrazas Del Mar residents have many groups involved in the U.S. who are sympathetic to their cause.
According to sources who wished to remain annonymous, Carlos Lagos Yagues, and Ricardo Zazueta Villegas have personal ties with Jorge Hank Rohn former mayor of Tijuana who also has ties with the Arellano-Felix cartel. Ricardo Zazueta Villegas is currently running for the political position with PRI of Diputado District 8 which covers Rosarito and Tijuana. Many believe that he is being backed monetarily by the Arrellano-Felix cartel in order to gain control in government to ease the flow of drugs to the U.S.
Since the new mayors of Tijuana and Rosarito have been working with the new President of Mexico Felipe Calderon there have been several arrests and the drug cartels have been loosing ground. By having the cartels backing PRI they can regain the territory lost and once again have better ease in transporting their shipments of drugs to the U.S.
Some have expressed their desire to have the FBI investigate Carlos Lagos Yagues and Ricardo Zazueta Villegas as both have properties in the San Diego area. Others stated that they may file a complaint with the Postmaster General for mail fraud as some were making payments to Carlos Lagos Yagues to a post office box.
Sent in from the Baja Free Press.

wilderone - 5-13-2009 at 08:31 AM

This would make a good movie.

surfer jim - 5-13-2009 at 08:55 AM

Yes, what a mixture of "interesting" people....lawyers, politicians, and drug cartel ....:O

Gaucho - 5-13-2009 at 09:54 AM

Two words:

Title insurance

mtgoat666 - 5-13-2009 at 10:09 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by bajabound2005
1000 Rosarito families face eviction?


In the US, title is usually clear, and we buy title insurance.
In Mexico, most title is clear as mud, and it seems few people obtain useable title insurance.
Mexico needs title reform, or needs real/useable title insurance.

I understand that buyers can now get title insurance in Mexico, but has anybody ever heard of a title insurance policy payout in Mexico??

DENNIS - 5-13-2009 at 11:33 AM

Would a title insurance company underwrite anything or anybody if they weren't sure the title was clean and clear? Hard to believe they would in Mexico.

Bajahowodd - 5-13-2009 at 11:36 AM

There are several US based title insurers that have been writing in Mexico for quite some time. One would think that if they breached their duty, Americans would have recourse in US courts. That being said, I do have to wonder if these same companies have not established some sort of firewall regarding transactions South of the border.

coho - 5-13-2009 at 11:44 AM

Can you imagine the nightmare at the border that a sitdown protest will cause. After experiencing a teacher sitdown protest in the city of Oaxaca in January, this is not a pleasant experience for travelers.....but one of the best ways to gain publicity. This one needs to be on President Calderon's desk pronto....a federal bailout if necessary! The loss to future investment in Mexico would be staggering. To the homeowners: Many anxious Nomads will be watching and wishing for a speedy resolution.

Eugenio - 5-13-2009 at 12:52 PM

Foreigners can't protest in Mexico (Article 33) - does anyone know the ratio of Mexican/Foreigner owners? I've been by the place but really don't know anyone who lives there.

DENNIS - 5-13-2009 at 01:08 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by bajabound2005
They stated that a plan to protest at the border to stop all traffic from going into Mexico may also be held in order to gain bi-national awareness of the fraudulent real estate transactions that occur in Mexico.


I hope they don't think the US will allow them to stop southbound traffic on the US side.

All of this brings back sad memories of Punta Banda. When will people learn?

Cypress - 5-13-2009 at 01:08 PM

Same old song and dance. I thought? My title was clear?:o

wilderone - 5-13-2009 at 02:12 PM

I'm not so sure a title search would have uncovered a credit union loan against the property. In order for that to become known, there would have to have been a recorded deed of trust in the credit union's favor, which is then in the public domain (to be searched and found) (like any second trust deed or equity loan). And if the title company wasn't at fault in failing to find this lien and property encumbrance, then they won't pay out. Works both ways, however. What did the credit union have that lawfully puts the land in their hands? No deed of trust? Not recorded? What's the nature of the lien? Why didn't the credit union speak up when its land was being sold?

Woooosh - 5-13-2009 at 02:26 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by wilderone
This would make a good movie.


just another sequel.

Woooosh - 5-13-2009 at 02:30 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Eugenio
Foreigners can't protest in Mexico (Article 33) - does anyone know the ratio of Mexican/Foreigner owners? I've been by the place but really don't know anyone who lives there.


Foreigners can't protest political issues, I'm not so sure about being able to protest civil issues like this.

Besides.. this protest would be 100 times more effective on the USA side of the border at San Ysidro- where the press still exists (for now anyway). Count me in! I can lay down and nap almost anywhere at my age :)

[Edited on 5-13-2009 by Woooosh]

Paulclark - 5-13-2009 at 02:49 PM

Would you buy a property with a lien on it in the US? Why would you buy one in Mexico where liens are a matter of public record. Don't leave your comon sense at the border.

The Rip Off Country

CaboRon - 5-13-2009 at 02:52 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Cypress
Same old song and dance. I thought? My title was clear?:o


Do NOT buy property in mexoco ....

This is NOT a country with the rule of law ....

Do NOT trust mexicans ....

Their country is totally f***ed up ...

Don't people ever learn ..... :?:

Do NOT buy property in mexico ....

This just happens over and over again ...

Quit supporting this scumbag country and warn your fellow Americans .....

CaboRon

wilderone - 5-13-2009 at 03:04 PM

Evidently, the credit union was located in Sonora. But why isn't Zazueta in jail right now for selling property that he knew wasn't his to sell? Did the credit union tell him to sell it knowing later that they would pull this lien scam? Yeah, the FBI should raid his Chula Vista home just for kicks - see how he likes having his home compromised. Regardless, how can this crook run for public office?

Bajahowodd - 5-13-2009 at 03:10 PM

Whatever became of the crook who sold the homes in Punta Banda?

fishbuck - 5-13-2009 at 03:15 PM

How and where exactly does one investigate if there is a lien or claim against a piece of property in Mexico?

Woooosh - 5-13-2009 at 03:19 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by CaboRon
Quote:
Originally posted by Cypress
Same old song and dance. I thought? My title was clear?:o


Do NOT buy property in mexoco ....

This is NOT a country with the rule of law ....

Do NOT trust mexicans ....

Their country is totally f***ed up ...

Don't people ever learn ..... :?:

Do NOT buy property in mexico ....

This just happens over and over again ...

Quit supporting this scumbag country and warn your fellow Americans .....

CaboRon


Sadly it's all true. Such a beautiful lawless piece of real estate Baja Norte is.

Realtors show buyers letters of "tentative Approval of Title Insurance" from companies like Stewart- but getting the actual title policy isued is a whole 'nother animal. Of course the letters are in Spanish with the Stewart Title name and logo- the only thing people focus on. It looks good enough to most people.

IMHO the only way to buy a lot is from a private party who holds the escritu or title. Get the title transferred to you by the notary and let the dust settle. We bought our lot from a French national and the process was very straight forward. It takes more time up front to seperate the land from building- but you sleep a lot better. That leaves most condo complexes, expat communities and pre-sale developments out- but that's where the sharks, speculators and HOA-hellraisers cast their evil nets in my experience. They can turn your dream of retirement bliss into something totally different.

[Edited on 5-13-2009 by Woooosh]

wilderone - 5-13-2009 at 03:31 PM

hmmmm - this Ricardo Zazueta and Carlos Lagos Yagues duo was involved in a landgrab scam involving the appropriation of the Blvd 2000 land as well. Says with false documents. Then, after paying landowners a pittance to acquire their holdings, they resold for much more, essentially victimizing the original landowners. (I think that's what it says).

http://www.oem.com.mx/elsoldetijuana/notas/n200455.htm

DENNIS - 5-13-2009 at 03:40 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bajahowodd
Whatever became of the crook who sold the homes in Punta Banda?


Well connected people are not crooks. They're just misunderstood.

Paulclark - 5-13-2009 at 03:51 PM

Liens are recorded at the Public Registry Office of the jurisdiction of the property and can be viewed by anyone. Normally you get a person who is familiar with the process to do it for you -- such as a title search company. To transfer property legally there must be a statement of no liens issued by the public registry office.---and the only person who can legally transfer property is a Mexican Notary Public who is appointed by the state government.

fishbuck - 5-13-2009 at 04:15 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Paulclark
Liens are recorded at the Public Registry Office of the jurisdiction of the property and can be viewed by anyone. Normally you get a person who is familiar with the process to do it for you -- such as a title search company. To transfer property legally there must be a statement of no liens issued by the public registry office.---and the only person who can legally transfer property is a Mexican Notary Public who is appointed by the state government.


How do you find out if there are any pending court cases concerning property you may want to buy?

Bajahowodd - 5-13-2009 at 04:23 PM

So I'm misunderstood, too?

Paulclark - 5-13-2009 at 04:30 PM

Now you are beyond my experience ----- If there is an action against a property it must be recorded, ----- The best procedure I know of and follow when buying property is to have all the adjoining property owners sign and agree to the property lines and insure the seller has been in legal possession of the property. Also that there has been no recorded action against the property for at least 5 years and I use a Notary who is familiar with the property and the area. Problem properties are usually known and will have a history. Title insurance is an American concept and has only recently starting to be recognized and used here, but there are some reputable title insurance companies.
In the thread I have seen nothing about these "owners" having legally recording their ownership and having the rights to the properties transferred into their name. Why would you pay for property before it is legally transferred to your name without using escrow and the tools available?--Just as you would in the US?

Woooosh - 5-13-2009 at 04:42 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Paulclark
Why would you pay for property before it is legally transferred to your name without using escrow and the tools available?--Just as you would in the US?


great point! exactly. Use a transfer system you trust and don't allow yourself to be talked out of your comfort zone.

Woooosh - 5-13-2009 at 04:43 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
Quote:
Originally posted by Bajahowodd
Whatever became of the crook who sold the homes in Punta Banda?


Well connected people are not crooks. They're just misunderstood.


There is no shame in Mexico.

950 Families Affected by Home Seizure
Latest News
Written by BBSTF
Wednesday, 08 April 2009 18:41
BBSTF has confirmed that a protest took place yesterday at Rosarito's city hall over property being seized from both Mexicans and U.S. citizens. Affected are more than 950 families from the Terrazas del Mar neighborhood who purchased homes from Grupo Lagza, which had mortgaged the properties in 1994 and failed to inform buyers of the fact. Litigation is presently in progress, and the courts will determine the ultimate disposition of these homes. Included below is a translation of the announcement of the protest, and we will have more news as the story develops...

To All:
In our character as residents of Terrazas del Mar, and inhabitants of the city of Rosarito Beach, Baja California, we make a public complaint against the social disaster that awaits, and because of such, we appeal to the media, the general public, and the local, state, and federal authorities for their help, fearing the loss of our homes for over 950 families that we acquired in good faith in the Terrazas del Mar subdivision, in this city.

More than 10 years ago, we, the affected parties, made payment to Grupo Lagza, directed by Mr. Carlos Lagos, for lots of land in the Terrazas del Mar subdivision, not knowing that they had been mortgaged since 1994; now, and after all these years of sacrifice, we find ourselves in the midst of judgements and conflicts which we do not recognize as our own, because we purchased the property in order to live in peace and retirement in this region of great people, and hard working individuals who make Rosarito a wonderful place...

Presently, and after litigation which has worn us out in the defense of our homes, we find ourselves in a moment of decision, in the hands of justice, in the hands of competent authorities who will decide if we are or are not victims of fraud; the resolution of which will affect the region and state on the international level, socially and economically.

The Fifth District Court headquartered in the city of Tijuana, Baja California, sheltered and protected us by means of federal justice (Remedy no. 343/2008), resolution which was appealed by the opposition (UNICRECOPE), and presently the case is being heard in the Fourth Official Tribunal headquartered in the city of Mexicali by magistrate Judge José Aguilar Moya, who will make the final determination of the future of each one of us, and a part of Rosarito.

We believe in justice, we believe in the authorities, we believe in the rule of law, and above all else we believe in the capacity of those who will make the ultimate verdict, and because of that we appeal before the society of Rosarito to ask for their help and together we will find strength in our feelings and the presence of inhabitants from all of Rosarito, and thus avoid in the future a social problem of gravest consequence for all; we appeal to our magistrate, that they will give a just decision, and right the wrongs upon deciding in our favor.

We hope for your help and support, thanks!

The inhabitants of Terrazas del Mar
7 April 2009



[Edited on 5-14-2009 by Woooosh]

fishbuck - 5-13-2009 at 04:56 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Paulclark
Now you are beyond my experience ----- If there is an action against a property it must be recorded, ----- The best procedure I know of and follow when buying property is to have all the adjoining property owners sign and agree to the property lines and insure the seller has been in legal possession of the property. Also that there has been no recorded action against the property for at least 5 years and I use a Notary who is familiar with the property and the area. Problem properties are usually known and will have a history. Title insurance is an American concept and has only recently starting to be recognized and used here, but there are some reputable title insurance companies.
In the thread I have seen nothing about these "owners" having legally recording their ownership and having the rights to the properties transferred into their name. Why would you pay for property before it is legally transferred to your name without using escrow and the tools available?--Just as you would in the US?


Okay, I guess my question is this. Are pending legal actions ( active court cases) recorded in the Public Registry Office?
I have my documents recorded with a Notary in Ensenada. He is well known and owns a large hotel there. Also the owner of the developement where I bought is also well known. The project is an approved subdivision and very formal.
If there was a pending action and the Notary was aware would he still register all your documents?
I found out afterwards that there may be a claim against the property. The owner denies it and so does a lawyer that I retain in Ensenada. And so does a realestate office that continues to advertise property there.
But a person in the know claims there is a case pending in Mexico City.
Any suggestions on determining the truth here?

Paulclark - 5-13-2009 at 05:09 PM

If this person is in the know then ask for the case number and the what court the action is taking place in. With that information you can request a copy of the action and find the truth about the action. Is it an action against a person or a piece of property? You can sue a person and attach their assets but you can't sue a piece of property. If the property in question has been legally transferred with no recorded liens I doubt that you have any worries. But I am not a lawyer -- if you want a higher comfort level I would ask for a third party legal opinion and possibly place title insurance on the property.

arrowhead - 5-13-2009 at 06:17 PM

This is a common problem in Mexico. Hugo Torres, the mayor of Rosarito is notorious for doing this. He sells a condo in one of his projects and does not payoff the underlying loan. Many of his buyers have gone to sell their units years later and found out there was a lien still on the unit, even though they paid cash for it. When they yell, ol' Hugo fixes it, and calls it a mistake. In reality he just sits on the money. One of these days, and it may be soon, this is all going to blow up in his face. He can't kite checks forever in this economy.

By the way, title insurance won't do any good. The title insurance shows the underlying lien, so the buyer is not covered by the developers failure to pay it off.

Woooosh - 5-13-2009 at 06:25 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by arrowhead
This is a common problem in Mexico. Hugo Torres, the mayor of Rosarito is notorious for doing this. He sells a condo in one of his projects and does not payoff the underlying loan. Many of his buyers have gone to sell their units years later and found out there was a lien still on the unit, even though they paid cash for it. When they yell, ol' Hugo fixes it, and calls it a mistake. In reality he just sits on the money. One of these days, and it may be soon, this is all going to blow up in his face. He can't kite checks forever in this economy.

By the way, title insurance won't do any good. The title insurance shows the underlying lien, so the buyer is not covered by the developers failure to pay it off.


welcome to the board arrowhead. I'd say you hit the nail on the head this time.

Paulclark - 5-13-2009 at 07:42 PM

Why would you buy a piece of property with a lien on it??? Do you do it in the US?? Makes no sense to me.
A title insurance company is not going to insure a property with a third party lien on it---can't insure a car for a wreck when it has already been in one.

rts551 - 5-13-2009 at 08:05 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Paulclark
Why would you buy a piece of property with a lien on it??? Do you do it in the US?? Makes no sense to me.
A title insurance company is not going to insure a property with a third party lien on it---can't insure a car for a wreck when it has already been in one.


You keep saying why would you.... Sorry to say this but usually because of greed. "I got a good deal"


Makes people do foolish things. Look at our own housing market.

Paulclark - 5-13-2009 at 09:15 PM

Good Point--

capitolkat - 5-14-2009 at 05:35 AM

did any of these people have a fidecomiso? If not they took risks that are inappropriate for the location. I examined a Mexican title insurance policy written by First American and it has so many exceptions to coverage it's essentially worthless and nobody will ever get satisfaction if they rely on the policy to compensate for the exceptions to clear title.

Woooosh - 5-14-2009 at 07:31 AM

How many actual moved-in "families", not land speculators are being affected? How many homes were actually built and occupied and how did they do that without public utility service? Just wondering...

wilderone - 5-14-2009 at 08:51 AM

Evidently, this problem was known in 2006, and Grupo Lazga was in the thick of it, operating on the fringes of legality. (sorry, not a very good translation from Bablefish):

http://www.el-mexicano.com.mx/noticias/estatal/2006/11/17/al...

José Israel IBARRA GONZÁLEZ viernes, 17 de noviembre de 2006
PLAYAS DE ROSARITO. Residentes de "Terrazas del Mar" se encuentran alarmados ante la posibilidad perder sus predios y casas, debido a que fueron notificados de manera personal por la Unión de Crédito de la Pequeña Empresa e Industria de Querétaro (Unicrecope).
Claudia Sandra Zamarripa Pérez y David Durán Aguilar, vinieron desde Mexicali para investigar la situación de su predio con el Grupo Lagza, empresa a quien le han estado pagando a través del banco. Manifestaron que su predio costo 10 mil dólares, de los cuales han dado más de 70 por ciento, sin embargo, ahora están muy preocupados de lo que pueda suceder.

They indicated that the Unicrecope sent to each address a letter to him where they explain to them that Chaste Navarrese, owner of the estate, owes 45 million dollars, because never paid a loan of 10 million dollars. …
In addition they annexed a document to them of the Public Registry of the Property of Rosarito so that they can verify that those lands are mortgaged from the year of 1994. Lagza responds The Lagza Group gave a letter to all the land proprietors in " Terraces of the Mar" , a copy of El Mexicano, where they indicate that before the disinformation that in last dates has caused the Unicrecope they communicate: " The existence of the mortgage is real, nevertheless the same is prescribed (expired) because its collection in the term indicated by the law was not demanded judicially and in addition the real amount to the debit is much smaller than the exorbitant amount that is mentioned in writings and journalistic publications. The credits that originate the mortgage were granted to third people offering itself like guarantee the estate on which later " would be developed; Terraces of the Mar". Lagza group did not know, at the time of developing the division, of the existence of this mortgage that was granted by the proprietors of the estate, Navarrese Chaste family.
Interposed legal processes exist so that the prescription of the collection of such mortgage is decreed, same whose location unjustifiably has been evaded by the referred Union of Credit of the Small Company and Industry of Querétaro, every time we have information that no longer is holder of this mortgage. The Secretariat of Property and Public Credit, through Service of Administration and Disposition of property, ended in April of the present year and by means of national public licitation nonDCC 03/06, the doubtful rights of the collection of the portfolio (credits) that administered the Unicrecope, obtaining the ownership Mr. Jose Antonio Barredo Maldonado, with whose representatives we have been negotiating from past June the solution to such burden. Annexed probatory documentation was copied in the power of El Mexicano. When boasting itself the Unicrecope like proprietor of the credits, looks for to create alarm between you, to press the negotiations, nevertheless this conduct can constitute a crime that is its case and moment we will denounce.

docsmom - 5-14-2009 at 11:40 AM

This post may pee all of you off who hate Rosarito and Hugo Torres, but here's my story.
We purchased a condo @ Oceana Towers, pre construction, back in the '90's. We loved it, used it, and finally sold it when an independent party was purchasing all the units and withholding HOA fees to gain control of the community. It seemed at the time that selling was the right thing to do . And we had no troubles when we sold our condo.
We miss our Mexican home, we miss our friends, we miss Rosarito. Our purchase, owership, homeowner experience was beautiful. In all the time we spent there we experienced no threat to our lives or our happiness. We never felt any threat to our ownership.
We haven't been to Rosarito in about 3 years, and we miss it desperately. Today we live in Tucson, we're recent transplants from Las Vegas. I bet if we compared violence stats, Rosarito to Las Vegas or Tucson, the numbers would be higher in Las Vegas or Tucson, USA.
I do understand that the level of violence is increasing in Rosarito, to a level that makes even me concerned. But with the state of the economy right now everyplace is experiencing more desperation and voilence.
I'm truly concerned about the folks @ Terrazos del Mar. I hope this turns in their favor and if they need any support that I can offer I'm there for them.
Those of you @ Terrazas, don't give up hope. Hold on to your dream. Gather together and make a stand. Lots of folks have negative feelings toward Mayor Torres, but I encourage you to meet with him. He's the most powerful person in Rosarito and I still believe that he has the city's best interests in mind.
Let me know if I can help.
Kathy

1000 families is a stretch

Dave - 5-14-2009 at 12:01 PM

Maybe a 1000 lots have been sold but I doubt it. Very few gringos. Lots of dual citizens, though.

But they should know better. :rolleyes:

wilderone - 5-14-2009 at 12:55 PM

"I examined a Mexican title insurance policy written by First American and it has so many exceptions to coverage it's essentially worthless and nobody will ever get satisfaction if they rely on the policy to compensate for the exceptions to clear title."

A good title policy would also include legal representation to defend title in your behalf if an action is brought.

Latest News ?

CaboRon - 5-23-2009 at 07:20 AM

Does anyone know anything further about this ?

It seems someting affecting one thousand families should be huge news.

Grupo Lagza is a active Corp in Calif-SD

Bronco - 5-24-2009 at 01:45 PM

I would not hesitate to go after GL in California. I would also include the title company. I have had converstions with Stewart title re: their bogus "Steward Title approved" on most of the bad real estate in the Rosarito area. Ladrones of the highest order. Eventually the Torres clan will go down
as well. I just can't figure how they continue to function with no business or sales of condos. But then those unrefunded deposits do add up. Very interesting?

Corporation
GRUPO LAGZA
Number: C1899866 Date Filed: 1/5/1996 Status: active
Jurisdiction: California
Address
750 B STREET STE 1880
SAN DIEGO, CA 92101
Agent for Service of Process
CELSO T JIMENEZ
610 W ASH ST STE 805
SAN DIEGO, CA 92101

toneart - 5-24-2009 at 02:44 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by capitolkat
did any of these people have a fidecomiso? If not they took risks that are inappropriate for the location. I examined a Mexican title insurance policy written by First American and it has so many exceptions to coverage it's essentially worthless and nobody will ever get satisfaction if they rely on the policy to compensate for the exceptions to clear title.


Nobody has answered the fideocomiso question yet.

Cypress - 5-24-2009 at 03:08 PM

Fideocomiso?:lol: It all depends upon who did the "fideo". :biggrin: And were all the papers etc. in order, and were the fees paid, and were the extended family/leins/ and on and on considered?:biggrin:

Bajafun777 - 5-24-2009 at 03:15 PM

Toneart, I doubt that anyone can answer your question, as these things just get shifted further down into the darkness until the shell switch is made and then it will be clear as glass to everyone except those that invested. That is why I will not buy in Mexico, ever, I will lease and enjoy the culture and friends down there but will not even think of buying anymore. I am getting too set in my ways to have to get totally angry and fedup with something that I know is always going to be a problem in Mexico. I would rather lease, rent, and jump from place to place like nomads do to enjoy every bit of what Baja and yes Mainland has to offer. Afraid of the crime, not really, but I will also not take chances that would even put me or my wife at risk. Many have seen some really good people get taken advantage of and the crooks go on to screwing other Americans, Canadians, and Mexicans returning to Mexico for everything they had worked years to attain. So, my suggestions are lease or rent and take the stress out of it ---------- which will hopefully bring you "NO Hurry NO Worry Just Fun" should be there for you, hopefully. I wish these people well but we all know how it will turnout and no matter what I do not believe anyone desevers this to happen to them in their retirement years, kind of reminds one of Enron, etc. The rich greedy icons are entitled to screw us every chance they get, just when will we all accept this and deal with it, wow will things ever change? Crooks are crooks no matter what side of the border but this real estate issue in Mexico has to change with understandings for everyone. Later-------------------------- bajafun777

Dave - 5-24-2009 at 03:27 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by toneart
Nobody has answered the fideocomiso question yet.


This is an illegal subdivision. There are no fideocomisos. The majority of the owners are either Mexican or hold dual citizenship. A mortgage lien may have been recorded but the trick would be in finding where. For instance, the domicile for the corporation could be DF.... or Mazatlan.

There was a time that owning was best but...

pavel - 5-24-2009 at 04:05 PM

I would have to say that those on this board who have been saying that leasing is the only way to enjoy Baja by way of home ownership are having the last laugh..
Its becoming obvious that the problems of no central computer files has led to overlapping title issues where some notarios have completed land transactions from areas other than where they are located. It will come to a head when the system is put on a central registry but they will delay it for many years because of the problems that await.

The old 'do not invest more than you can afford to lose" has never had so much weight as now.

If you bought your property from an eijdo without the proper paper work being completed , You are screwed . Its that simple. Gone are the days when an honest Mexicans handshake is worth anything anymore.

The economy will dictate the clawback of land that will happen when these deals go south..

Even hiring a lawyer will not help you as the Mexican legal system will always favor the Mexican no matter what those on this board say. Its a make work program for Mexican lawyers and nothing else. There is no end to land dispute litigation in Mexico unless both parties are Mexican....

Bajahowodd - 5-24-2009 at 04:10 PM

I know, I'm going to be assaulted here, but........ The proponents of the conservative side of the aisle, will all say that this is merely a case of caveat emptor. On the other hand, if the government would step in and mediate the issue, maybe, with some government assistance,(even graft, if you will) this could turn out well for those affected. Lassez faire governments are fine in theory. But he simple truth is that unless we are OK with our society devolving into a Darwinist system, government has to intrude.

DENNIS - 5-24-2009 at 04:11 PM

I agree with every word that Pavel just mentioned.

You are half right..

pavel - 5-24-2009 at 05:32 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bajahowodd
I know, I'm going to be assaulted here, but........ The proponents of the conservative side of the aisle, will all say that this is merely a case of caveat emptor. On the other hand, if the government would step in and mediate the issue, maybe, with some government assistance,(even graft, if you will) this could turn out well for those affected. Lassez faire governments are fine in theory. But he simple truth is that unless we are OK with our society devolving into a Darwinist system, government has to intrude.


Mexico does need some more oversight because of the constant shifting sands of home ownership there.
You can not even begin to compare it to regulation in the USA and to do it shows your complete lack of knowledge with what is going on in both countries.
I have bought and owned property in ten states and never have had any issue with ownership because we have oversight. Please provide us with the details of how this is happening on the 'OC' where you live and let us know about the thousands of homes where ownership is an issue.

Oh, whats that... There is no need for more oversight up there.
Thanks for your input into these very important issues...:lol:

[Edited on 5-25-2009 by pavel]

Hear, Hear

Bronco - 5-24-2009 at 05:32 PM

I also agree with Pavel and Dennis. If one wants to see how the records are recorded just go to the city government buildings in Ensenada where people pay yearly taxes. I went with a national who inherited a parcel of land and was amazed but not surprised. Big "theek" books, all hand written with land transactions one after another. In our lifetime the internet will never see these mysterious, musings, posted from one generation of clerk to the next. The thought of perusing for who did what to whom, when and where is unfathomable.

Dave - 5-25-2009 at 02:30 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by pavel
Even hiring a lawyer will not help you as the Mexican legal system will always favor the Mexican no matter what those on this board say. Its a make work program for Mexican lawyers and nothing else. There is no end to land dispute litigation in Mexico unless both parties are Mexican....


The Mexican legal system favors those with intimate knowledge. Gringos can prevail if they employ an attorney who works in their interest. The key is not what happens in court...it's what happens after.

DENNIS - 5-25-2009 at 02:42 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Dave
Quote:
Originally posted by pavel





You're responding to the dead.

Cypress - 5-25-2009 at 03:09 PM

pavel? Seemed like a good poster? Didn't take long for him to get booted. He must have been a little too honest.:D

bajalou - 5-25-2009 at 03:11 PM

Think he was a old banned poster with a new namd.

I own a bar

Dave - 5-25-2009 at 04:03 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
You're responding to the dead.


It's a habit. :rolleyes:

Bajajack - 5-25-2009 at 04:24 PM

Since I can't speak the truth without being Banned or Censored I supposed I won't say anything.

:coolup:

bajamigo - 5-25-2009 at 04:30 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by bajalou
Think he was a old banned poster with a new namd.


I was guessing Minnow.

comitan - 5-25-2009 at 04:54 PM

This site may be a clue:

http://www.pavelmi.com/index2.php

woody with a view - 5-25-2009 at 04:57 PM

or maybe here:

http://www.greenroom.com/newshaper.php

bajalou - 5-25-2009 at 05:06 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bajajack
Since I can't speak the truth without being Banned or Censored I supposed I won't say anything.

:coolup:


The "truth" is what someone chooses to believe. Where you get it, from your life experiences or someones teaching does not matter. It's still only what you choose to believe is true.

And these experiences and teachings are not the same for everone.

arrowhead - 5-25-2009 at 05:51 PM

Speaking of Rosarito, last Saturday night the police chief of Rosarito, Montero, was drinking in a bar on bulevar Benito Juarez around 1:30AM, along with his bodyguards and official town vehicles. One of the town administrators got wind of it and told somebody to take pictures and then he drove to the bar. Montero heard what was happening, went outside the bar, pulled open the door of the administrator's pick-up and proceded to beat the crap out of him. Meanwhile, Montero's bodyguards kept everybody away, including the Rosarito police who responded to the call.

:rolleyes:



[Edited on 5-26-2009 by arrowhead]

Missed opportunity?

Bronco - 5-26-2009 at 07:55 AM

Gee it could have been my favorite- Hugo!

CaboRon - 5-26-2009 at 09:40 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by arrowhead
Speaking of Rosarito, last Saturday night the police chief of Rosarito, Montero, was drinking in a bar on bulevar Benito Juarez around 1:30AM, along with his bodyguards and official town vehicles. One of the town administrators got wind of it and told somebody to take pictures and then he drove to the bar. Montero heard what was happening, went outside the bar, pulled open the door of the administrator's pick-up and proceded to beat the crap out of him. Meanwhile, Montero's bodyguards kept everybody away, including the Rosarito police who responded to the call.

:rolleyes:



[Edited on 5-26-2009 by arrowhead]


So that's what is called mexican justice:lol::lol:

Bajafun777 - 5-26-2009 at 03:13 PM

Well, to bad we are not being told who the name of the administrator was that got beat for being a sneak. Ok, Ok, a nightrider looking for a new story line, LOL. I still like the beach area in Rosarito and some of the local shops, cafes, and people I have known over the years who make this town worth a visit. Too bad for all of the problems and I still hate it when people that have paid good hard dollars for something get it taken by the "shell game" no matter who says who is right. If they were wrong why the long period of time that always occur before the wrong is made public to steal it all back without any kind of repayment of any monies. Lease, rent, or bring your trailer to go as you please in Mexico. My dreams of owning have went away sometime back but I will still go and enjoy where I want to. Later------------------------------ bajafun777

comitan - 5-26-2009 at 04:21 PM

Fun

This may shed some light.

All agencies reporting in Rosarito Beach, a fist fight between the Secretary of Public Security of Rosarito Beach, Jorge Eduardo Montero and the Municipal Officer, Aristides Valdezpino. This happened out side of a bar, Montero reportedly punched Valdezpino in the face while Valdezpino was in his armored van, the fight continued in the vehicle while bodyguards of the two men kept people at bay. Simultaneously, two calls over the Police frequency went out; one was for help, the other saying everything was in order and no help was needed. Finally, Montero exited the vehicle with a bloody nose and bruised left eye. At first, officials denied the incident, however several witnesses confirmed the brawl. Yes, there is such a thing as hot latin blood, were they fighting over a woman?

arrowhead - 5-26-2009 at 09:13 PM

I think just about everybody who has been to Rosarito knows the liquor store "Don Pisto". It is directly across the street from the Rosarito Beach Hotel, and right in the heart of the "secure tourist zone". It was robbed at gunpoint this morning, during normal business hours. The Rosarito Hotel is owned by the Mayor of Rosarito, Hugo Torres. The police chief (the one who punched it out with a town administrator) lives right next door.

arrowhead - 5-27-2009 at 01:28 PM

They're calling for heads to roll in Rosarito.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Uwq2Mgsfu4s/ch1tiulgv2I/AAAAAAAAMy...

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_Uwq2Mgsfu4s/ch1tTsahiUI/AAAAAAAAMy...

Woooosh - 5-28-2009 at 04:43 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by arrowhead
They're calling for heads to roll in Rosarito.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Uwq2Mgsfu4s/ch1tiulgv2I/AAAAAAAAMy...

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_Uwq2Mgsfu4s/ch1tTsahiUI/AAAAAAAAMy...


How could it hurt Iggy if the two duke it out? I guess he's upset they aren't both out serching for the people who threatened him and killed the towns tourism econmy. It's a lot safer for the cops to in-fight than to face the new narco taking over town- who drinks openly at the next bar down the Blvd. Torres likes the "7 Seas" bar across from his hotel and is generous about buying beers for the crowd- but not too many manly fights happen in there. All these players are frequently out in Rosarito drinking with their bodyguards and armored vehicles within 100 yards of each other.

woody with a view - 5-28-2009 at 05:22 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Woooosh
Quote:
Originally posted by arrowhead
They're calling for heads to roll in Rosarito.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Uwq2Mgsfu4s/ch1tiulgv2I/AAAAAAAAMy...

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_Uwq2Mgsfu4s/ch1tTsahiUI/AAAAAAAAMy...


How could it hurt Iggy if the two duke it out? I guess he's upset they aren't both out serching for the people who threatened him and killed the towns tourism econmy. It's a lot safer for the cops to in-fight than to face the new narco taking over town- who drinks openly at the next bar down the Blvd. Torres likes the "7 Seas" bar across from his hotel and is generous about buying beers for the crowd- but not too many manly fights happen in there. All these players are frequently out in Rosarito drinking with their bodyguards and armored vehicles within 100 yards of each other.


i glad we had our fun in the 80's. rosarito is a dump. :no:

CaboRon - 5-29-2009 at 01:06 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by woody in ob
Quote:
Originally posted by Woooosh
Quote:
Originally posted by arrowhead
They're calling for heads to roll in Rosarito.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Uwq2Mgsfu4s/ch1tiulgv2I/AAAAAAAAMy...

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_Uwq2Mgsfu4s/ch1tTsahiUI/AAAAAAAAMy...


How could it hurt Iggy if the two duke it out? I guess he's upset they aren't both out serching for the people who threatened him and killed the towns tourism econmy. It's a lot safer for the cops to in-fight than to face the new narco taking over town- who drinks openly at the next bar down the Blvd. Torres likes the "7 Seas" bar across from his hotel and is generous about buying beers for the crowd- but not too many manly fights happen in there. All these players are frequently out in Rosarito drinking with their bodyguards and armored vehicles within 100 yards of each other.


i glad we had our fun in the 80's. rosarito is a dump. :no:


I had dealings with torres in the sixties ....

He was a crook then and probably more of a crook now ....

Wish they would finally take him down .....