BajaNomad - expired CA plates in Baja?

expired CA plates in Baja?

baja-chris - 5-27-2009 at 10:39 AM

For a car that you want to leave at your place in Baja, what if you just non-op it in Calif, drop the Calif insurance, and drive it around in Baja with expired tags? I don't see any reason I can't continue to insure for liability in Mex (they never check to see if the plates are current) but if I was in an accident would the expired plates nullify the insurance?

I'm sure this is technically a no-no but is it enforced much and is it a big deal when you get pulled over? I've seen (and driven) buggys around LOTS with no plates at all and never been hassled. Is this lucky and stupid or don't they care?

rpleger - 5-27-2009 at 10:47 AM

Just have a wreak and find out about insurance without current tags.

gnukid - 5-27-2009 at 10:56 AM

You'll get pulled over in any large town without a current sticker and the cops will attempt to extract your cash, but there are many reasonable explanations if you don't mind being pulled over and giving them cash. Or if you live in a pueblo and never leave its not a problem. In most towns like La Paz or Cabo you wouldn't get one block without being harassed.

You'll also find that you can register in the USA the car quite easily if you follow the steps.

For clarification

Here are the suggested steps you would complete.

1) Vehicle address
You do not need to do a vehicle address change but it might help-I recommend this step first, there are two addresses associated with each vehicle mailing address (remains as your mailing address) and vehicle address (to be changed to below). You may register your vehicle as being in Baja California registered to your home address

Johnny Baja
1000 Callejon Baja
La Pueblititita, BCS 20360

Your DL and your vehicle mailing address should remain the same as they are I assume. Be sure this is correct and consistent. You want to be straightforward and direct, this is about this vehicle registration.

Write it exactly you may find that BC fits and not BCS in the form which has room for two letters for states. Write it out correctly but if the form allows only two spaces enter two letters BC. Do not enter MX.

Here is the form you must complete and provide to the CA DMV as the first step noting only this vehicle is and will continue to be stored and used at your place in Baja California with occasional return visits here. The vehicle is currently in Baja California.

http://dmv.ca.gov/forms/dmv/dmv14.pdf

2) Statement of Facts

http://dmv.ca.gov/forms/reg/reg256.pdf

Complete the Statement of Facts noting the vehicle is currently in Baja California at the above stated address. Check the box to note that it is exempt from smog because the vehicle is at the stated address. Yes I know it says except for Nevada and Mexico, the vehicle is in Baja California which is exempt. Mexico refers to mainland Mexico which is not where you live. It is best that you do not say the words Mexico ever. Just repeat "I visit Baja California Sur at my ranch, we vacation there. I like to fish." Complete both sides of the form completely in simple, legible English. Sign the form.

3) Complete the registration for this vehicle.
You may be required to demonstrate proof of ins, you will be required to pay in cash, check or possibly visa. You may demonstrate liability ins in mex if thats where the vehicle is. I find they do not check for ins for my Baja California vehicles.

http://dmv.ca.gov/forms/reg/reg343.pdf

The DMV law clearly state that vehicles used semi-permanently and stored in BCS are exempt from smog. The exact wording is vehicles south of Tecate. Note do not write Mexico on the Statement of facts. Write Baja California or Baja California Sur.

If pressed you may state, politely, the vehicle is at my ranch, I use it at my ranch in Baja California. I am aware that this vehicle is exempt due to the burden to drive it 2000km here and due to the fact that gas qualities vary over the region. To be required to return here with the vehicle is considered a burden to me and my family therefore we are exempt, always have been. I live here part time and there part time. I use one vehicle here and another there.

If you are willing to complete these steps, this is straightforward and upon completion you may file to request return of some fees since the vehicle should also be exempt from certain taxes.

Each step must be completed in order, do one step at a time. Do not mention the next step until you complete the prior step.

1 2 3 done.

Hope this helps.

If you make a scene at the DMV you will make it much harder on yourself. You should be as non-descript as possible and say very little and it will be processed. If you do not make a scene you can go back as many times as needed to complete it without a problem, since the law is on your side.

This can also be done via mail and some of it online as well.

[Edited on 5-27-2009 by gnukid]

oldjack - 5-27-2009 at 10:56 AM

In Los Barriles.... over the past few weeks the mexican federales have had road blocks and have been checking on "all documents" the vehicle must be in compliance and the driver must be also... coming to a community near you soon.... get legal!!!! the old days are gone.....

DENNIS - 5-27-2009 at 10:57 AM

Insurance adjusters will look for anything to uninsure you. They learned that in the United States.

BMG - 5-27-2009 at 11:29 AM

We do know that one of the Nomads was pulled over last year for expired plates in La Paz. Turned out that someone peeled the current stickers off their plates, we assume to use on their plates.

Quite a few of us have gone to South Dakota plates and registration. Do a search on the forum and you'll find plenty of info.

Dittos

MrBillM - 5-27-2009 at 11:49 AM

Mex Insurance is invalid if vehicle is not currently registered.

Mex Police in San Felipe are pulling people over on a regular basis for expired tags.

A Great revenue source.

I've found a good Inkjet Printer to be the answer. You'll need multiple copies since the UV fades them faster than the originals and you are SCREWED, of course, if you're pulled over.

However, I've spent some time playing around with the registration and various photo programs and have come CLOSE to a reasonable facsimile with a revised date field. A little work and I think it could be done. I did it once with a proof of Insurance in California and it was accepted. Now, they're computer-linked to the insurance companies data base so that's out.

There's ALWAYS a (devious) answer.

DENNIS - 5-27-2009 at 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by MrBillM
I've found a good Inkjet Printer to be the answer. You'll need multiple copies since the UV fades them faster than the originals and you are SCREWED, of course, if you're pulled over.

I knew a lady here who used to do much the same thing. She'd print them on glossy, peel'n stick material and spray them with a UV shield made for photographs. They lasted quite a while.

gnukid - 5-27-2009 at 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MrBillM
Now, they're computer-linked to the insurance companies data base so that's out.

Some companies are linked, some are not as stated in the DMV docs and at the DMV (basically most big companies do it and some small one do not). So it is reasonable that you can provide written proof or electronic proof.

Lauriboats - 5-27-2009 at 12:19 PM

We were told at DMV that effective January 1, 2009, Mexico insurance is no longer valid, you must have current California insurance to keep current California Registration. Also on May 1st California doubled all registration fees, so we are driving to South Dakota this summer for new drivers licenses and vehicle registrations.

gnukid - 5-27-2009 at 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lauriboats
We were told at DMV that effective January 1, 2009, Mexico insurance is no longer valid, you must have current California insurance to keep current California Registration. Also on May 1st California doubled all registration fees, so we are driving to South Dakota this summer for new drivers licenses and vehicle registrations.

The CA DMV quotes registration fee is $34
http://www.dmv.ca.gov/vr/fees/reg_fees.htm

I'm heading over there now to register a car and I'll find out for sure. Are you sure you're winking with the left eye-three times at window #7 like I told you? jaja

Other fees are taxes and use fees which can refunded to you (by request) if your vehicle is registered to be in Baja.

INS costs, you can ins all your vehicles for the lowest possible rate highest dedcutable, or declaee this vehicle is a second vehicle which is used rarely, since, in fact if the vehicle is in Baja no claim would ever occur.

I have found these CA INS rates for my Baja vehicle to be practically negligible.

gnukid - 5-27-2009 at 03:12 PM

Well I went to the DMV and while everything worked as I had noted above and we were able to register the vehicle in baja at the end the agent said "here's your documents, now all you have to do is call this number and fax your proof of ins and pay another $14 to a third party agency then they will send you a letter in 4-5 days and you can bring that back here for your sticker."

We pointed out that our ins was current, that we had documentation and that it was electronically reported as well. She agreed but said that the DMV made a deal with a third party company to demonstrate proof of INS for a fee.

This is just on more step among many to create stricter transit controls and exact higher costs for transit in CA.

[Edited on 5-27-2009 by gnukid]

DENNIS - 5-27-2009 at 03:20 PM

Quote:

I wonder why that might be since insurance isn't mandatory in Mexico. Just a little bit more of that "special treatment?"

oxxo - 5-27-2009 at 03:50 PM

Three months ago, I was pulled over in San Jose del Cabo for expired CA registration. Actually, I had renewed my registration and smogged my car (it passed), but the new stickers were waiting for me at my CA address. Cops DIDN'T ask me to pay the fine on the spot. He hopped in my car and we drove directly to the Police Station where I paid a fine of about US$7.

Bajahowodd - 5-27-2009 at 04:12 PM

Ah yes. South Dakota. The new Baja. Remains to be seen if and when some bureaucrat starts sniffing around. But if giant corporations can domicile in places like Bermuda and the Caymans just to avoid taxes, I guess the wee folks should have an option, too.

baja-chris - 5-27-2009 at 11:30 PM

Great info from all of you. Thanks a bunch!

Bob H - 5-28-2009 at 06:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by oldjack
In Los Barriles.... over the past few weeks the mexican federales have had road blocks and have been checking on "all documents" the vehicle must be in compliance and the driver must be also... coming to a community near you soon.... get legal!!!! the old days are gone.....

This exact same thing happend to us on our last trip to Mulege, last January. At one of the Military inspection areas they had federales checking registration and drivers license checks of everyone passing by.

Bob H

[Edited on 5-28-2009 by Bob H]

CaboRon - 5-28-2009 at 06:50 AM

While the CSL and La Paz police have been checking tags for some time now ..... Just before I left Todos Santos there was a three day road block at the southern entrance to town to check registration (complete with AK-47s)

1200 pesos

BFS - 5-28-2009 at 10:04 AM

my neighbor just got hit in the Cabo corridor for 100 usd for expired CA tags

Aq

Ersatz Enforcement ?

MrBillM - 5-28-2009 at 10:21 AM

Are you sure they were genuine ?

I haven't seen any carrying Commie AK-47s, but we do know that the Cartels are importing them.

Woooosh - 5-28-2009 at 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by rpleger
Just have a wreak and find out about insurance without current tags.

And become a true Mexican for a moment in time- live on the edge. Let your plates and insurance expire and learn how to negotiate the proven mordida system to negotiate damages on the spot- like a true Mexican if you have a wreck. If someone is hurt you will have a long, bad day- but when is the last time you had a bad wreck? Do you know how hard it is for Mexicans to even get an insurance quote? It's ridiculous and if Mexico wanted it's citizens to be insured- they would make it easier.

My Mexican nephew was T-boned in his truck by a motorcycleist who ran a red light. Neither had insurance and the motorcyclist died. The dead mans mother comes to my nephews house every month to demand he make a payment for the loss of her son- even though it was his fault. It's not pleasant- but Mexicans seem to take this type thing in stride.

This may be a big deal down in Baja Sur, but in TJ and Rosarito Beach a huge percentage of the cars have "bad plates" from California. If they have bad plates, they also have no insurance.

I let the plates expire on my dirt bike and drive it in Baja. Who cares?! OK- California does and has asked twice for the money since they seem to need some up there. I am willing to pay the registreation- but they won't issue it without proof of insurance- so expired stickers it is!

The ICE doesn't ask or check your plates or insurance when crossing into the USA. Not even their job. The sooner you act like a Mexican, the more respect you will get from your neighbors. Applying Americans standards of decency and conduct in Mexico is a waste of time and only shows how new you are new to Mexico. After a few years you will be driving with no insurance, with expired plates, sharing your DirectTV, WiFi and Cable signals with your neighbors and laughing about how much money gringos waste playing by their rules down here. JMHO of course.

[Edited on 5-28-2009 by Woooosh]

They can...and do

Dave - 5-28-2009 at 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Woooosh
The ICE doesn't ask or check your plates or insurance when crossing into the USA. Not even their job.

New program at the border. They have, or soon will have the capability to automatically scan all plates.

BTW, I agree with the rest of your post.

[Edited on 5-28-2009 by Dave]

Woooosh - 5-28-2009 at 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave

Quote:

Originally posted by Woooosh
The ICE doesn't ask or check your plates or insurance when crossing into the USA. Not even their job.

New program at the border. They have, or soon will have the capability to automatically scan all plates.

They have always scanned the license plates. They use the info to track trends- like how many times does that car cross the border, for how long and who is driving? They may be improving their systems but I don't think ICE shares it with anyone at CHP though. Arnold could set up a CHP checkpoint after the POE just for this purpose and write tickets all day long for no plates, no insurance, no car seats, talking on cell phones while driving... why doesn't he?

[Edited on 5-28-2009 by Woooosh]

LB - 5-28-2009 at 12:48 PM

How does Article 106 (Mexican law regarding the registration and driving of foreign cars in Mexico) apply? It states two things 1: that your car registration and license plates are valid as long as your FM# is valid and info on who drives your car.

Is this only the mainland, and if it is does Baja do we have a link to that database?

Dave - 5-28-2009 at 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by LB
How does Article 106 (Mexican law regarding the registration and driving of foreign cars in Mexico) apply? It states two things 1: that your car registration and license plates are valid as long as your FM# is valid and info on who drives your car.

Is this only the mainland, and if it is does Baja do we have a link to that database?

The car should be tied to your FM. Visit Migra and ask that they add it. Depending on their disposition you might get lucky. Other than that, It might help to carry a copy of 106. Legally, if you have an FM# the cops don't have jurisdiction over registration. Only Migra.

rts551 - 5-28-2009 at 01:38 PM

Yeh

But Dave, tell them that. Ha

Woooosh - 5-28-2009 at 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave

Quote:

Mexico has la Migra?? really? So if I were to be pulled over by a cop I can just show my FM3 (if the car is documented on it) and not need to show my registration/insurance/licenses?

:?:

[Edited on 5-28-2009 by Woooosh]

CaboRon - 5-28-2009 at 01:44 PM

Quote:

This is only on the mainland .

rts551 - 5-28-2009 at 01:48 PM

Sometimes we jest about this, but it is becoming a big problem. I was passing through San Quintin a couple of years ago when someone ran into the back of a friends vehicle. The people (in the other car) all piled out and hit the surrounding community, leaving the vehicle behind. Oregon plates 3 years old. Cops said it happens all the time. They just confiscate the vehicle and its too bad for the other folks.

Dave - 5-28-2009 at 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Woooosh
So if I were to be pulled over by a cop I can just show my FM3 (if the car is documented on it) and not need to show my registration/insurance/licenses?

Registration, yes. That the car is listed on your FM is your registration. But you would need to have a valid license. Also, insurance isn't a requirement. I've never been asked for insurance verification. It's only a necessity if you're involved in an accident. Sorta like Catch 22. :lol:

Having said all this, it's doubtful that any cop would be aware of article 106. So you know how that's gonna go. :rolleyes:

Dave - 5-28-2009 at 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CaboRon

Quote:

This is only on the mainland .

Article 106 is federal law.

Woooosh - 5-28-2009 at 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by rts551
Sometimes we jest about this, but it is becoming a big problem. I was passing through San Quintin a couple of years ago when someone ran into the back of a friends vehicle. The people (in the other car) all piled out and hit the surrounding community, leaving the vehicle behind. Oregon plates 3 years old. Cops said it happens all the time. They just confiscate the vehicle and its too bad for the other folks.

The Mexican gov't wrongly charges thousands of dollars to legally import a car from the USA- so you see lot's of expired out of state plates everywhere in Mexico. The USA-plated cars come into Mexico registered and insured. Once in Mexico the owner may opt to: 1) Lie about it's true garaging location in Mexico and keep the US plates and insurance current, 2) "Move" to South Dakota apparently, 3) Pay the import taxes to get valid Mexican plates, 4) Just drive it and forgetaboutit- letting the plates and insurance expire. (IMHO option 4 is leading). Mexicans have created a system that works for them- that's all. No, it doesn't really work and No, it certaily isn't fair if you are a victim of it.

If you are concerned about all the illegal plates then by all means always have a high limit car insurance policy. No matter who is at fault you will be treated like a king at the accident scene. You will rock. The gringo has insurance!

LB - 5-28-2009 at 02:36 PM

Did some checking. Found that in Baja your car must have unexpired plates
UNLESS is has been bonded by the mainland. found at www.rversonline.org.

bajalou - 5-28-2009 at 03:59 PM

I don't think the car is ever documented on a FM2 or 3. You must do a Temp Import of the vehicle and then Art. 106 applies. This can be done in Mexicali. (I have done it there). Then the TI Permit is your permit to operate in Mexico as long as you are legally there - FM2 or FM3. (this told to me by the customs officials in Mexicali)

Woooosh - 5-28-2009 at 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by LB
Did some checking. Found that in Baja your car must have unexpired plates
UNLESS is has been bonded by the mainland. found at www.rversonline.org.

I couldn't find any information on that site. Rules for off-road vehicles may be very differnt and complicate things as well.

mtgoat666 - 5-28-2009 at 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Woooosh
The sooner you act like a Mexican, the more respect you will get from your neighbors. Applying Americans standards of decency and conduct in Mexico is a waste of time and only shows how new you are new to Mexico. After a few years you will be driving with no insurance, with expired plates, sharing your DirectTV, WiFi and Cable signals with your neighbors and laughing about how much money gringos waste playing by their rules down here. JMHO of course.

Classy

Wonder why my Mexican friends are such fools to be driving with valid plates and insurance and paying for their own broadband??? :?:

wakemall - 5-28-2009 at 05:33 PM

Great info. My plates are expired and I am tired of paying the People's Republic of CA. I am working on transfering the title to my brother in CO. Can you transfer the title with a vehicle being out of the country?

DENNIS - 5-28-2009 at 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by wakemall
Great info. My plates are expired and I am tired of paying the People's Republic of CA. I am working on transfering the title to my brother in CO. Can you transfer the title with a vehicle being out of the country?

Don't know about Colorado but, in California it has to be smogged within thirty days [I think it's 30] prior to getting new registration.

gnukid - 5-28-2009 at 06:20 PM

Quote:

You are asking about Colorados laws so you should check here http://www.colorado.gov/cs/Satellite/Revenue-MV/RMV/11770248...

Woooosh - 5-28-2009 at 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mtgoat666

Quote:

Classy

Wonder why my Mexican friends are such fools to be driving with valid plates and insurance and paying for their own broadband??? :?:

Judgementals like "classy" simply don't apply in third world countries like Mexico. There is no shame in Mexico and certainly no shame in being poor and driving without plates or insurance, or even having your home utilities "adjusted" by a diablito. It's a very interesting culture- where almost anything is justifiable without shame or guilt.

Woooosh - 5-28-2009 at 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by gnukid

Quote:

You are asking about Colorados laws so you should check here http://www.colorado.gov/cs/Satellite/Revenue-MV/RMV/11770248...

Impossible to get the VIN checked and the car smogged when the vehicle is out of state. I have a home in CO and thought about that too. I also have a business address in South Dakota- so am thinking about that option... I wonder how that works?

rts551 - 5-28-2009 at 08:01 PM

Judgementals like "shame" only apply if you can live in those shoes. Never been there? then do not judge

Quote:

Originally posted by Woooosh

Quote:

Originally posted by mtgoat666

Quote:

Classy

Wonder why my Mexican friends are such fools to be driving with valid plates and insurance and paying for their own broadband??? :?:

Walking in their Shoes ?

MrBillM - 5-29-2009 at 09:32 AM

Or Sandals ?

SO, you can't judge anyone unless you can walk in their shoes ? What if they've got really small feet ?

Seriously, though, that canard has to be one of the most idiotic ever uttered. By that standard, the Bad Guys around the world could only be judged by inmates at San Quentin and elsewhere.

Yeah, that works.

Al G - 5-29-2009 at 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Woooosh

Quote:

Originally posted by gnukid

Quote:

You are asking about Colorados laws so you should check here http://www.colorado.gov/cs/Satellite/Revenue-MV/RMV/11770248...

U2U if you need to get this done. I have transfered 11 vehicals...including Motorhome, travel trailer, utility trailers and cars/trucks. No quads yet, maybe mine soon.

edit: 5 from the state of CO.

[Edited on 5-29-2009 by Al G]

wakemall - 6-10-2009 at 09:02 PM

We completed the transfer of title from CA to CO. More revenue lost for the People Rebublic of CA. What a stupid liberal state. I tried to keep the money in the state but they forced me out. Nothing like stepping over a $100 to save a nickel. Guess I will have the only Suburban in Loreto with CO plates and a Fresno State Bulldogs sticker and Valley V sticker in the back window???