BajaNomad - 4 year old girl hit by SUV dies at TJ border crossing. Mother and child begging for money.

4 year old girl hit by SUV dies at TJ border crossing. Mother and child begging for money.

Woooosh - 6-5-2009 at 08:16 AM

This incident happened yesterday. There is another ongoing thread about the proposed laws for Mexican street children. This incident is disturbing to me mostly because the Mexican authorities are considering filing charges against the US resident female SUV driver. WTF? Anyone who crosses at this POE knows it's a crazy driving experience as 4 lanes turn into 12 on each side- a true free for all. No marked lanes and no rules. It is difficult enough to negotiate without having to worry about a small child most of us wouldn't be looking down for. Most of us are checking our mirrors, staying close to the car ahead (so no one cuts you off or hits you trying) and looking for the best lane to head for.

Yes, it is a tragedy and I do feel for the dead child and her family. It's a horrible way for a four year old to live and die, but it's the fault of the childs mother, not the poor driver. JMHO and I'm sticking with it. This is a problem Mexico can fix with one cop chasing the pedestrian beggars away and out of harms way- if the police had the will to do so. But to blame the driver? And who do you think will be paying for the girls emergency room trip to the USA? What say you fellow nomads who also cross here?

http://www3.signonsandiego.com/stories/2009/jun/04/bn04tjgir...

"A 4-year-old Tijuana girl died at a Chula Vista hospital after being struck and dragged by a sport utility vehicle in a vendor area on the Mexican side of the international border, authorities said yesterday.

Bacilia Andrade died about 3 p.m. Wednesday, shortly after being taken to Sharp Chula Vista Medical Center, the county Medical Examiner's Office said.

The girl's mother was believed to have been among vendors selling items to drivers waiting to cross into the United States at the San Ysidro Port of Entry, said Alberto Diaz, spokesman for the Mexican Consulate in San Diego. He said Mexican authorities were investigating.

The girl's mother was holding the child's hand when her daughter was hit by a Chevrolet Suburban, pinned under a wheel of the SUV and then dragged a few feet, Diaz said. The mother was not hit. The driver, a 51-year-old woman who is a legal resident of the United States, "said she didn't see the child walking beside the vehicle," Diaz said.

There were conflicting reports about what happened after the child was hit. The Medical Examiner's Office report said the driver failed to stop, while Diaz said the traumatized driver did stop.

Diaz said consulate officials went to the hospital after being notified of the accident They paid to bring the girl's body back to Tijuana and accompanied her parents to Mexico. The parents have two other children, he said.

Whether Mexican authorities will file charges against the driver depends on the results of an investigation, Diaz said.

After the girl was struck, authorities from both sides of the border provided medical aid, including U.S. Customs and Border Protection agents, said Angelica De Cima, a customs spokeswoman. San Diego Fire-Rescue Department medics took the girl to the hospital.

[Edited on 6-5-2009 by Woooosh]

[Edited on 6-5-2009 by Woooosh]

bajabound2005 - 6-5-2009 at 08:36 AM

OK, I don't get why she was taken to a US hospital since it happened on the Mexican side.

And I agree, Woooosh, the police should be out there running those people off. It's extremely dangerous.

Very sad situation for this poor family - and for the driver.

Cyanide41 - 6-5-2009 at 08:40 AM

That's sad. I feel bad for both women involved. I drive a big truck and there have been a couple of times I have been surprised by people I didn't see while waiting to cross.

Bajajack - 6-5-2009 at 09:12 AM

I wouldn't be surprised if it happened on a daily basis, you have a gazzilion kids running in & out and the police standing by watching & doing nothing.

I do feel for the driver.

:rolleyes:

BajaGringo - 6-5-2009 at 09:21 AM

I always fear such an accident happening as I watch how these kids weave in and out of the cars, often below the line of sight of drivers trying to make their way to the gates.

Why was she taken to a hospital in the US? My guess is that it happened in US territory. Lots of those kids "work" on the north side of that dotted line that runs diagonally across a ways back before you reach the gates.

arrowhead - 6-5-2009 at 09:25 AM

I think the accident occured on the US side of the border. The inspection stations are about 100 yards North of the physical border. Since the article says that US Customs came to help, and they carry sidearms, I don't think they would step across the border into Mexico. Also, it would be a lot faster to take the girl by ambulance North into the US than to try to get a Mexican ambulance up through the line to pick her up and then turn around back into Mexico.

If this were in the US, that mother would be charged with criminal child endangerment for walking a 4-year old among a line of cars on a roadway. The fact that the Mexicans would even consider trying to charge the driver just shows how far up their arse they have their heads.

Dave - 6-5-2009 at 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Woooosh
This incident is disturbing to me mostly because the Mexican authorities are considering filing charges against the US resident female SUV driver.

Mexican authorities should learn a lesson from this and institute policies to ensure this never happens again...

But they won't.

Vendors have no business being in the middle of traffic lanes. I'll bet there are even laws against it.

Woooosh - 6-5-2009 at 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by arrowhead
I think the accident occured on the US side of the border. The inspection stations are about 100 yards North of the physical border. Since the article says that US Customs came to help, and they carry sidearms, I don't think they would step across the border into Mexico. Also, it would be a lot faster to take the girl by ambulance North into the US than to try to get a Mexican ambulance up through the line to pick her up and then turn around back into Mexico.

If this were in the US, that mother would be charged with criminal child endangerment for walking a 4-year old among a line of cars on a roadway. The fact that the Mexicans would even consider trying to charge the driver just shows how far up their arse they have their heads.

It is very rare to see vendors and beggars cross that faded yellow bumpy line. Very rare. Once you cross that line you have shown your intent to enter the USA and are subject to inspection. Maybe the customs agents first thought it was a diversion of some type. I'm sure they are alert and suspicious first and compassionate second.

DENNIS - 6-5-2009 at 10:05 AM

At 3:00 in the afternoon by the junk stands, it's hard to imagine a car getting up enough speed to do any type of harm unless one was pinned between vehicles. Something's wrong here.

Cyanide41 - 6-5-2009 at 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave
Vendors have no business being in the middle of traffic lanes. I'll bet there are even laws against it.

The poses in interesting question. A few times I have seen local vendors scatter. Which usually would raise an alarm. I think it was because there were "officals" comming and they were not suppossed to be selling there. I think some of the vendors were badges. I wonder if you need some sort of license to sell there. You know the Indio ladies w/ kids wouldn't have the badges.

SiReNiTa - 6-5-2009 at 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by arrowhead
The fact that the Mexicans would even consider trying to charge the driver just shows how far up their arse they have their heads.

arrow head...i know it is a mistake to charge the driver but PLEASE REFRASE...there are mexicans on here and you are speaking in a general sense...not all of us have are arse in out head tyvm...

on the other hand my heart goes out to the childs family and the driver, i have been across the border many times and i know how dangerous it is and many times i have thought how irresponsable the mothers of the children are to bring them there to cause pity and get more money that is very sad indeed to use a child in such way, but the blame goes to both sides of course if i had to blame someone it would be the mother BUT the cars in the crossing are usually going very slow and most vendors and/or children try to keep clear of cars wheels i mean...just common sense...but sadly humans make mistakes, it was a mistake for the mother to take her child with her to "work", it was a msitake for the child to not look where she was going and it was a mistake from the driver to hit the girl, i know sometimes it is hard to see and you have to be on the look out for other people that may cause accidents but i dont think that justifies hitting someone...so i am not taking sides here...everyone makes mistakes and unfortunantly this time these mistakes led to a childs death...
lets hope mexicans do not press charges, it would be a waste of money they could be using to get the children of the streets...

DENNIS - 6-5-2009 at 10:16 AM

About a thousand years ago in Mazatlán, a bicycle rider ran into my parked car while I was getting out of it. I was taken to jail, the rider went for medical care and his bike was stolen by the police.
I was fined after being issued an attorney who I also had to pay along with the judge. My attorney explained that, although everybody knew I wasn't responsible for anything, I had to pay because I could afford it and the bike rider couldn't. In those days, no motives were hidden and it was just the way it was. How dare I ask?

DENNIS - 6-5-2009 at 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cyanide41
The poses in interesting question. A few times I have seen local vendors scatter. Which usually would raise an alarm. I think it was because there were "officals" comming and they were not suppossed to be selling there. I think some of the vendors were badges. I wonder if you need some sort of license to sell there. You know the Indio ladies w/ kids wouldn't have the badges.

I think they do. The vendors working for the shops wear an ID. The "Marias" don't. Sometimes the city will put on a push to discourage giving money to the panhandlers. They say it will make matters worse. I'm not sure what "Matters" they're referring to but I'll bet it's not the matter of the mother's children's dinner.
What a world.

Bajajack - 6-5-2009 at 10:32 AM

And everyone went back to business as usual as soon as it was over.

BajaGringo - 6-5-2009 at 10:38 AM

Dennis, the story of your experience with the bicyclist hitting your car is pretty much the same throughout Latin America. I know of a case in Argentina where a despondent young man ran out into traffic on a busy highway coming into downtown, wanting to end his life. The family and the boys girlfriend all made statements that he was suicidal but the family also pressed to have the poor guy driving the car that hit him pay for his funeral expenses and some compensation for his loss.

My father-in-law at the time was the attorney for the guy driving the car and told me that they would settle with the family for the equivalent of about $2500 USD. When I questioned the legal basis he explained that there was almost none, but that the "system" would see the difference in socioeconomic status between the two and side with the family as a means of bringing some type of social justice to the playing field.

Not fair he said, but just the way the system worked. And then he went on to say...

"and that is why I just take a taxi".

Woooosh - 6-5-2009 at 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by SiReNiTa the blame goes to both sides of course if i had to blame someone it would be the mother BUT the cars in the crossing are usually going very slow and most vendors and/or children try to keep clear of cars wheels i mean...just common sense...but sadly humans make mistakes, it was a mistake for the mother to take her child with her to "work", it was a msitake for the child to not look where she was going and it was a mistake from the driver to hit the girl, i know sometimes it is hard to see and you have to be on the look out for other people that may cause accidents but i dont think that justifies hitting someone...so i am not taking sides here...everyone makes mistakes and unfortunantly this time these mistakes led to a childs death...
lets hope mexicans do not press charges, it would be a waste of money they could be using to get the children of the streets...

I have to respectfully disagree with the "going slow" premise. Once you are locked into of of the 24 inspection lanes yes, it is slow. But while peole jockey for those lanes it is not uncommon to see a stream of cars shoot by at 15-20mph in one lane and other people cutting over to get into a gap very quickly. Or is this just when I cross? Negotiating the mayhem without a fender bender is challenge enough- you can't really hold drivers responsible for running over people standng in traffic lanes- no matter their age. This whole area is all one lane with no lane markings until you hit the yellow poles. The drivers force each left or right and then keep branching off into more lanes as they get to the open inspection lanes.

Yes, you need a permit to be there and you do see beggars run for cover and hide between cars when the police chase them away- just not often enough.

mtgoat666 - 6-5-2009 at 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Woooosh
Anyone who crosses at this POE knows it's a crazy driving experience as 4 lanes turn into 12 on each side- a true free for all. No marked lanes and no rules.

What is amazing is how amny gringos lose all civility in the broder line and often drive like maniacs dashing ahead a few feet just to get ahead by a car length or two, or accelerating wildly to block someone trying to merge. I have seen many people jockeying for position doing stupid manueavers -- and if they hit someone in process, I would think they would be at fault for reckless driving. Maybe tthe driver deserves to be prosecuted. Drive badly and pay the price.
Its probably all on video tape, if near the border, so will be easy case to decide at trial.

SiReNiTa - 6-5-2009 at 11:13 AM

well i agree with both of you...its true that many people drive faster than they should there but still i mean...just because some people do it doesnt mean it justifies taking a persons life...i know it was not intentional but it is also very rare to see cars going fast enough to kill someone...i mean...how fast can you go with hundreds of cars around you...i could understand a broken leg or severe injuries of some kind but death?? some one said earlier that the vehicle draggedd the little one for a small distance...that seems wierd because you would think that the person would immediatly feel a bump or something to let her know she hit something or someone...either that or the mothers screaming which i am sure was pretty loud seeing as her daughter was being carried under the cars tires...so i stick to my opinion that both sides had mistakes and it is not just the fault of the driver.
As someone said earlier "i am surprised it doesnt happen every day!" thats right it doesnt happen every day then how come if people avoided hitting the vendors or children in the past the person driving the SUV did not...
mtgoat...although i agree with the first part of your post i dont see how a trial would solve anything...i mean i'm sure the poor driver feels bad enough and the mother does also...the trial will not bring the poor girl back and it wont stop things like this happening in the future either...instead of putting money in to the trial they could put it towards making the border crossing experience better and taking care of the poeple that work there might they be vendors or their children...lets just hope this all serves as a learning experience to everyone...

Fred-o - 6-5-2009 at 11:24 AM

The craziness at San Ysidro and Otay Mesa are the reason I cross the border at Tecate. Just one long lane (sometimes) that splits into two lanes right at the checkpoint. Few vendors, and no "jockying" for position. Yes it's a longer drive, but to me the peace of mind is worth it. Time wise it's usually about the same. When the the current construction along the way is completed, it will be a very nice drive.

Oh Oh; another "Baja Secret" revealed.

I'm sorry for all those involved in this unfortunate accident.

ncampion - 6-5-2009 at 11:24 AM

Quote:

Most of the bad driving/lane hopping that I see at the border is from cars with Mexican license plates on them. I use as much caution as possible to avoid a last minute fender bender that would ruin an otherwise good Baja trip. What good is saving two minutes on an hour wait at the border?

.

DENNIS - 6-5-2009 at 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by mtgoat666

What is amazing is how amny gringos lose all civility in the broder line and often drive like maniacs dashing ahead a few feet just to get ahead by a car length or two, or accelerating wildly to block someone trying to merge.

Gringos? It's not only Gringos by any stretch of the imagination. The last 500 feet approaching the gate brings out the worst of all colors who have attained a-hole status.

BajaGringo - 6-5-2009 at 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ncampion
What is amazing is how amny gringos lose all civility in the broder line and often drive like maniacs dashing ahead a few feet just to get ahead by a car length or two, or accelerating wildly to block someone trying to merge. I have seen many people jockeying for position doing stupid manueavers -- and if they hit someone in process, I would think they would be at fault for reckless driving. Maybe tthe driver deserves to be prosecuted. Drive badly and pay the price.
Its probably all on video tape, if near the border, so will be easy case to decide at trial.

I agree during the week but on the weekends I have noticed cars with fair skinned faces and California plates doing their fair share of bad driving at the border as well. My daughter was in the line to go across a few weeks back. Her line was not moving and she noticed a car up in front of her that had broken down. It had its hood up, steam pouring out and she figured that she would just change lanes.

She put on her signal and turned the front wheels slightly as an indication that she would like to move into the lane to the right. A space opened up and she began to slowly merge into the lane. When the woman driving the car in the lane to the right realized that my daughter might move in front of her she floored it, slamming into the car in front of her before she could stop.

The car in front was driven by a young man with Baja plates and she was a middle aged Gringa with California plates. Of course the policia were there in 15 seconds taking stories and my daughter easily moved into the right lane ahead of the gentlemen's car who was hit from behind and now standing in traffic arguing with the woman.

The middle aged Gringa tried several times without success to get my daughter to pull over and my daughter said the last thing she saw in her mirror was the woman standing there waving her arms, screaming and crying to a growing crowd.

I am sure that she went back to tell her friends and family how she got screwed over in Mexico...

:rolleyes:

What happened to the little girl was tragic and I do blame her mom, but people need to check their anger levels before getting into the border line as well. I don't care if they drive with California or Baja plates...

[Edited on 6-5-2009 by BajaGringo]

woody with a view - 6-5-2009 at 12:04 PM

have you seen the kids on their hands and knees while their brother/sister stands on their back juggling while amazing everyone in the vicinity? easy to see a kid get squished. or how about when they scamper after a loose ball...

DENNIS - 6-5-2009 at 12:06 PM

The lines should be partitioned and monitored. Once you've reached a certain point, there is no changing lanes. If an emergency arises, the monitors make the required adjustments.

mtgoat666 - 6-5-2009 at 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by woody in ob
have you seen the kids on their hands and knees while their brother/sister stands on their back juggling while amazing everyone in the vicinity? easy to see a kid get squished. or how about when they scamper after a loose ball...

I really like the jugglers, seen some pretty creative kids. I also like the parade of cheesy crap for sale. Some people hate the San Ysidro border line, but I manage to find it entertaining. Always look on the bright side of life. (but you won't find me eating that nasty looking food they sell in line -- isn't it all bathed in auto exhaust?)

woody with a view - 6-5-2009 at 12:42 PM

i can't stand it.....

on another note. the only money out of our hands goes to someone picking up trash or missing a leg or two. these invalids obviously can't earn a living "working" like all of us so we look for them to unload our excess pesos.....

Cyanide41 - 6-5-2009 at 12:50 PM

I never understand why people feel the need to constantly switch lanes at the Border. I can see if there is an obvious hold up (broken down car) but it seems that people are in a hurry to get in to the next lane so they can wait just as long. I love when I still end up crossing before they do.

SiReNiTa - 6-5-2009 at 01:04 PM

what everyone says is true not only americans drive crazy at the border i think i have seen about the same amount of mexicans doing the exact same thing...i mean gosh do they really think one lane is much different from the others? there is always a few cars per lane that hold up traffic for a while i guess i prefer to wait it out...true they should make more rules at the border so people can not change lanes at a certain point and maybe have a space for the vendors where there is some sort of security messures like orange vests or what ever..even if it makes a small difference its something...

DENNIS - 6-5-2009 at 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SiReNiTa
i mean gosh do they really think one lane is much different from the others?

Hate to tell you this but, they drive like idiots on the freeway too. It's just the way they are, selfish and inconsiderate.

vandenberg - 6-5-2009 at 02:18 PM

Never have been able to understand why they can't/won't remedy this traffic mess. Seems easy to do and a no brainer. Where the traffic comes in in 2 lanes, a few signs and flashing red lights, indicating lane division. Going to 4 lanes, then to 8 lanes, etc. All is needed is some lane barriers, about 18 inches high and not too heavy, but not able to cross without car damage, but light enough for attendants to move if necessary. Then during slower times (if there is such a thing) some lanes at the 8 pole could be closed and adjusted to the number of gates open. But even that's too simple for government work. :biggrin:

[Edited on 6-5-2009 by vandenberg]

[Edited on 6-5-2009 by vandenberg]

CaboRon - 6-5-2009 at 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave

Quote:

Originally posted by Woooosh
This incident is disturbing to me mostly because the Mexican authorities are considering filing charges against the US resident female SUV driver.

And the mexican cops are paid a small bribe to look the other way ....

The mother of the child should be charged with reckless endangerment ....

mexico is a country that is without enforcement of it's laws ....

Largely because the "police" are crooks who are regularly bribed to overlook just about anything.

American drivers beware .... if you are involved in an accident get across the border as quickly as possible ...

You can still help financially, if you so desire ....

But under NO circumstances allow yourself to be taken into custody by the men in black .....

Being mexican is no excuse for being SOS ....

motoged - 6-5-2009 at 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SiReNiTa

Quote:

Originally posted by arrowhead
The fact that the Mexicans would even consider trying to charge the driver just shows how far up their arse they have their heads.

arrow head...i know it is a mistake to charge the driver but PLEASE REFRASE...there are mexicans on here and you are speaking in a general sense...not all of us have are arse in out head tyvm...

Sirenita,

You must be patient with some of the insensitive dolts on the Nomad Forum

They don't have very good "vision" as they might have their heads placed in such dark places.

Your logic and compassion is evident....I like how you present a sensible perspective :saint:

Bajahowodd - 6-5-2009 at 04:29 PM

I absolutely don't agree with the premise that the bad drivers are in vehicles with MX plates. Rubbish. As has been previously noted, people tend to go outside of their cool, based upon the length of the wait. From my perspective, the vendors are a neat part of the experience. I want a show of hands from folks that have NEVER purchased anything from a vendor while in line at the border. If you want to blame anyone for the bad behavior at the border, try the DHS. Y'all have to remember when crossing took like 10-15 minutes at the worst. Sorry, but Osama ain't gonna be hiding in someone's truck carrying a dirty bomb.

OOPS! was a troll just extinguished?

[Edited on 6-5-2009 by Bajahowodd]

turtleandtoad - 6-5-2009 at 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Woooosh

"A 4-year-old Tijuana girl died at a Chula Vista hospital after being struck and dragged by a sport utility vehicle in a vendor area on the Mexican side of the international border, authorities said yesterday.

'In a vendor area' sounds like there is an actual specific area where vendors are allowed. If so, then there should be signs indicating that and warning drivers to take extra care. If all of the above is true, then the driver should be cited. If not then the mother should be cited.

It also states that the accident happened "on the Mexican side". So the decision to transport her to a hospital in the US was probably the fastest way.

Just my take on this. I have to admit there are a lot of things that don't make sense in this story.

DanO - 6-5-2009 at 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BajaGringo

I agree during the week but on the weekends I have noticed cars with fair skinned faces and California plates doing their fair share of bad driving at the border as well. My daughter was in the line to go across a few weeks back. Her line was not moving and she noticed a car up in front of her that had broken down. It had its hood up, steam pouring out and she figured that she would just change lanes.

She put on her signal and turned the front wheels slightly as an indication that she would like to move into the lane to the right. A space opened up and she began to slowly merge into the lane. When the woman driving the car in the lane to the right realized that my daughter might move in front of her she floored it, slamming into the car in front of her before she could stop.

The car in front was driven by a young man with Baja plates and she was a middle aged Gringa with California plates. Of course the policia were there in 15 seconds taking stories and my daughter easily moved into the right lane ahead of the gentlemen's car who was hit from behind and now standing in traffic arguing with the woman.

The middle aged Gringa tried several times without success to get my daughter to pull over and my daughter said the last thing she saw in her mirror was the woman standing there waving her arms, screaming and crying to a growing crowd.

I am sure that she went back to tell her friends and family how she got screwed over in Mexico...

That is what I call some instant karma.

bajabound2005 - 6-5-2009 at 06:22 PM

Many of these posts say "they" should do this and "they" should do that...which "they" is it? This is all happening on the south side of the border and the US "they" can only do so much. The Mexican "they" could start by filling in the potholes on the way to border crossing...then having cops making sure school aged kids are IN SCHOOL instead of juggling for a few coins.

[Edited on 6-6-2009 by bajabound2005]

A whole nuther country

Dave - 6-5-2009 at 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by motoged

Quote:

Originally posted by SiReNiTa

Quote:

Originally posted by arrowhead
The fact that the Mexicans would even consider trying to charge the driver just shows how far up their arse they have their heads.

arrow head...i know it is a mistake to charge the driver but PLEASE REFRASE...there are mexicans on here and you are speaking in a general sense...not all of us have are arse in out head tyvm...

I occasionally ride to the States with Mexican friends. I'm always amused by the difference in driving habits once the border fades from view. Seat belts, signaling when changing lanes, following at a safe distance, not speeding, no honking, not using cell phones, etc.

Amazing. :rolleyes:

mulegemichael - 6-5-2009 at 07:41 PM

one time in cabo pulmo with a carload of clients i was sitting at an intersection waiting to make a move through it when we were impaled by a motorcyclist..his head up his butt, looking the other direction, plowed right into my front bumper, flew up over my hood and over my windshield then slid back down unconscious onto the ground...only momemtarily tho...he jumped up, bleeding from many orifices, grabbed his motorcycle, apologizing profusely, started it up and roared away...thank gawd he was a gringo....and an old one..

DENNIS - 6-5-2009 at 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave
I occasionally ride to the States with Mexican friends. I'm always amused by the difference in driving habits once the border fades from view. Seat belts, signaling when changing lanes, following at a safe distance, not speeding, no honking, not using cell phones, etc.

Amazing. :rolleyes:

Are you implying that the hyper-aggressive, inconsiderate, dangerous driving style of way too many Mexicans here is a matter of choice?

That IS amazing.

SiReNiTa - 6-5-2009 at 10:13 PM

lol...first of all i second baja bounds opinion i will not stand up for the mexican goverment or police because i know they are doing a horrible job on keeping what could and would be with good people in charge of it an amazing country with lots and lots to offer to the world but unfortunantly our political "leaders" are scum that only think of themselves...but...i cant help defending my people...lol...lets face it bad drivers are every where, as are drugs, violence, death, etc...unfortunantly i guess mexico is a center of attention...because of our bad political system...(i hope thats why) and this accident could have happend to any one...even me god forbid...apart from pointing figners at who was responsable for the accident i think it was also a being in the wrong place at the wrong time...i mean...who can tell right...there are many things that do not sound right in this story but who am i to say who's fault it was if i was not there...so i am going to end my posting on this topic by saying thank all of you that don't blame it ALL on one person and that the people who thin is such dumb ways as to say that mexicans have our head up who knows where...you have another thing coming buddy...my heart and prayers go out to the girls family as it does to the person driving the vehicle...good night everyone...

fishbuck - 6-5-2009 at 10:43 PM

It's a tragic story. Heartbreaking.
Whenever I cross north I wish I didn't have to see those poor little kids being dragged around by their parents in traffic like that. It's almost as though they are props to help generate simpathy and get money from the people trying to cross the border.
Sometimes some very small kids are out there alone or in little groups of kids.
I can understand the adults out there trying to make a living. But it's difficult even for someone as hard hearted as me to see the little ones out there.
I don't know who "they" are but I request that "they" prevent those little kids from being out there in traffic.
So if anyone knows who "they" are please pass along my request. :saint:

Ejido Mazatlan Tianguis

Gypsy Jan - 6-5-2009 at 11:08 PM

It's a weekly event.

A few years ago we were having some body work done on our car at the Taller near the top of the hill. We were returning from the parts store with our mechanic and he directed us to go around the tianguis, not through, because, as he said "The mothers throw their children under the cars to make money."

Bajahowodd - 6-5-2009 at 11:42 PM

Face it. The US tightened border security, such that it is, has created traffic havoc in TJ. The TJ police have full time officers assigned to help ease the approaching traffic on several streets. But once traffic has made it to the point where there is one destination, it's hands-off by the TJ police. Kind of a passive-aggressive thing.

We were there!!

Bronco - 6-6-2009 at 06:52 AM

On Wednesday my wife and I in our motorhome arrived at the linea with delight at the lack of cars. The line was one of the shortest I've seen in years. We actually ended up under the bridge with maybe 30? Vehicles in our lane. My first comment to my wife was "can you believe all the vendors over the line on the US side. They were within feet of the metal poles. There were NO border patrol checking cars, no dogs in sight and no Mexican police chasing the vendors back. The vendors were close because that’s were the potential customers were.
As always with our motohome we get sent for the AG check etc. It was while we were waiting we noticed the large number of cars being escorted thru x-ray. Obviously an alert had been issued. Hence the lack of personnel pre-screening and making the vendors gets back over the US line. As we were talking with an agent the call came across her radio and she bolted as did several agents one with a small stretcher into the waiting cars, one agent said a dog had been hit. Sadly it was a child.

Well...It is for me.

Dave - 6-6-2009 at 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Are you implying that the hyper-aggressive, inconsiderate, dangerous driving style of way too many Mexicans here is a matter of choice?

That IS amazing.

In Mexico, if you drive like a gringo you're dead meat.

DanO - 6-6-2009 at 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave
In Mexico, if you drive like a gringo you're dead meat.

That is an accurate statement. I find it best to drive my truck like a New York cab.

[Edited on 6-6-2009 by DanO]

BajaGringo - 6-6-2009 at 10:40 AM

Try driving in Buenos Aires - it makes Mexico look like little old ladies from Pasadena...

fdt - 6-6-2009 at 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajabound2005
OK, I don't get why she was taken to a US hospital since it happened on the Mexican side.

Many work on the US side

Quote:

Originally posted by BajaGringo
Why was she taken to a hospital in the US? My guess is that it happened in US territory. Lots of those kids "work" on the north side of that dotted line that runs diagonally across a ways back before you reach the gates.

Woooosh - 6-6-2009 at 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by turtleandtoad

Quote:

You are only a vendor if you are selling something. Holding your 4-year olds hand while tapping a starbuck cup on car windows for change with the other hand is not vending.

I think the vendors stay safe because of their carts. They are big and tall enough to be seen and wide enough to hide behind. Only once have I seen someone hit a vendor cart.

Many people just don't pay attention in line. Many are reading books or the newspaper and putting on their make-up while driving it. I got rear ended by a lady with her book up on the steering wheel once. And too have seen people rear end the car in front by accident to keep someone from cutting in. You have to be oblivious to pull right up behind a broken down car with his hood up though- look ahead and plan. There are lanes that are faster, they are not all the same.

IMHO- When Mexicans are driving it is the only time they have privacy, power and total control in their life. Some handle that well, others take it out on everyone else around them.

DENNIS - 6-6-2009 at 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Woooosh
You have to be oblivious to pull right up behind a broken down car with his hood up though- look ahead and plan.

About the only plan one could make at that point is to change lanes. Whatever the reason for the lane change, it will be met with cold-hearted resistance. You, at once, will be the enemy.
People arn't going to change. The structure has to change. Lanes have to be made so changeing isn't an option without help from someone in authority on the ground.

vandenberg - 6-6-2009 at 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

People arn't going to change. The structure has to change. Lanes have to be made so changeing isn't an option without help from someone in authority on the ground.

As suggested in my earlier post. A no brainer, done with minimum funds and little work. Likely could be done on our territory without Mexican help. :?:

DENNIS - 6-6-2009 at 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by vandenberg

As suggested in my earlier post.

And mine, two hours prior to yours, Ed. Not that it matters. Nobody listens anyway.

DENNIS - 6-6-2009 at 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by vandenberg
Likely could be done on our territory without Mexican help. :?:

Actually, at San Ysidro, it is done with partitions defineing the lanes for about 100 feet before the gate. It doesn't do much for the chaos occuring behind the barriers but, it's a peaceful 100 feet.
It has to be implemented way before that point. Seperate lanes from the top of the bridge.
Now that we've solved that problem......Who's going to pay for it?

Sharksbaja - 6-6-2009 at 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SiReNiTa
lol...first of all i second baja bounds opinion i will not stand up for the mexican goverment or police because i know they are doing a horrible job on keeping what could and would be with good people in charge of it an amazing country with lots and lots to offer to the world but unfortunantly our political "leaders" are scum that only think of themselves...but...i cant help defending my people...lol...lets face it bad drivers are every where, as are drugs, violence, death, etc...unfortunantly i guess mexico is a center of attention...because of our bad political system...(i hope thats why) and this accident could have happend to any one...even me god forbid...apart from pointing figners at who was responsable for the accident i think it was also a being in the wrong place at the wrong time...i mean...who can tell right...there are many things that do not sound right in this story but who am i to say who's fault it was if i was not there...so i am going to end my posting on this topic by saying thank all of you that don't blame it ALL on one person and that the people who thin is such dumb ways as to say that mexicans have our head up who knows where...you have another thing coming buddy...my heart and prayers go out to the girls family as it does to the person driving the vehicle...good night everyone...

You are no doubt appreciative of Mexico and your patriotism shines. Isn't it a shame you can't stand up for the politicos like you do for the great citizens. Perhaps one day.... Actually, how many people in the US trust politicians? They just use the letter of the law to milk the system. It's how you say, "PC", "politically correct". Is there such a thang in Mexico. Like maybe "CP", Correto Politico"

It just gives me a warm fuzzy feeling thinking about it . :rolleyes:

A child was killed because her mother brought her to a dangerous work site. Anyone who has been thru there can visualize what happened. It absolutely no place for children and I worry about them and all the others every time I pass through.

BTW Serenita, please put a period in your post somewhere. The grammer police are watching and they can't stand 500 word sentences! :lol:

DENNIS - 6-6-2009 at 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sharksbaja
BTW Serenita, please put a period in your post somewhere. The grammer police are watching and they can't stand 500 word sentences! :lol:

She uses those "Stuttering Periods." ....... I'm guilty a lot of that too...........................

Sharksbaja - 6-6-2009 at 02:25 PM

.................................oh........................not "periods of stuttering"........... :lol:

longhairedbeatnik - 6-6-2009 at 02:28 PM

The beggars and their handlers are out of control and this sad incident will not change anything. If you do not give them anything,that would help as they might go away but I think thats not going to happen. The Mexican police could stop this in a TJ minute but there is no money to be made so here we sit and ponder. Very sad indeed.

Woooosh - 6-6-2009 at 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by Woooosh
You have to be oblivious to pull right up behind a broken down car with his hood up though- look ahead and plan.

I agree Dennis. It's a social thing with Tijuanero drivers. The concept of alternating turns to merge into one lane simply doesn't exist to many of them. One more car they can get ahead of is one more pathetic victory. I too enjoy passing them again when their plan doesn't yield a benefit. And why bring that much stress into your day?

American drivers accept lane alternation as the simple, fair, decent and culturally acceptable standard. Easy as that. You go, I go, you go, I go- it never really occurs to us that we can do anything other than that- because that's how we watched our mothers and fathers drive when we we children- so that's how we drive ouselves. Same as passing on hunting safety to your kids by example.

(woooosh-note: How many nomads have seen Mexican mothers jump out of their cars once they reach the poled lanes, get out, run around putting all their kids in their car seats, jump back in- and drive up to the inspection booth. Didn't they care about their childs safety on the TJ side at all?)

An ICE agent once told me overall Mexicans crossing at the Texas POE's are different and much nicer than the Tijuaneros. Those guys should know. I don't think Tijuaneros like the way the act, drive or have become- they just haven't found a way to change without admitting or showing any weakness.

Please dont take this as an anti-Mexican, it's just anti-Tijuanero driver. They are a breed below to be sure. Al ye doubters- Remember I said that next time one whizzes past you in the breadown lane to get ahead of you and everyone else. Only in TJ (or on their way back down to TJ).

DENNIS - 6-7-2009 at 06:16 AM

On the other hand, can you imagine your twelve year old son sitting in a car seat? In a couple more years, he could be fathering his own kids.
---------------------------------------------

"The law requires all children travelling in cars to use the correct child restraint until they are either 135 cm in height or the age of 12 (which ever they reach first) . After this they must use an adult seat belt. There are very few exceptions, and the main ones are set out below."

mtgoat666 - 6-7-2009 at 06:23 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Woooosh
American drivers accept lane alternation as the simple, fair, decent and culturally acceptable standard. Easy as that. You go, I go, you go, I go- it never really occurs to us that we can do anything other than that- because that's how we watched our mothers and fathers drive when we we children- so that's how we drive ouselves.

swooshie,
your anti-mexican rant is nonsense. have you ever crossed at TJ? gringo drivers are as bad as mexican drivers. most all people lose civility at border crossing. gringos are not better people, they just think they are

teehee

SiReNiTa - 6-7-2009 at 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sharksbaja

BTW Serenita, please put a period in your post somewhere. The grammer police are watching and they can't stand 500 word sentences! :lol:

i know...guilty sorry...
The thing is that once i get on a roll its hard to stop for grammer!
I promise i will try harder. (is that better??)

And mt i agree with you that sadly american (because i do not like the term gringo) and mexican drivers all have the same bad habits while crossing the border. Oh well...i guess that is just, well...i don't know why it is.

Peace

(was that better sharks? =)

Woooosh - 6-7-2009 at 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mtgoat666

Quote:

Why so needlessly defensive. I prefaced my comments as being anti tijuanero-drivers only, not anti-mexican. I have no love for Parisian drivers either- but enjoy puttering around the rest of France. OK? Same thing.

I am talking purely about the culture of driving. In the USA driving the family car is a shared family cultural experience. Most middle class families have one family car that they buy, wash, wax, maintain, insure and take great pride in. We anxiously await our learrners permits at 15, our parents teach us how to drive and then possibly will loan us the keys on prom night, and at graduatio get acar to take to college with us. It is an American middle-class rite of passage. The USA is culturally defined by autos in many ways. Mexicans don't have that social and cultural connection to cars for purely ecomonic reasons that are obvious. The see cars as the luxury of private transportation- not as a cultural learning tool that bonds families and society.

woooosh-note: I was driving in Connecticut with some of my Mexican family a few years back (we flew in- so it was sort of like dropping them into another world). They had many observations, but the most telling one was about driving. At a four way stop in CT it takes another ten seconds because everyone is waving at each other to go first. They cracked up at that. That's why in the USA the person to your right at a four-way stop goes first if you arrive at the same time. Otherwise you'd be there all day. In Rosartio while you wait or yield, another car (usually a taxi) will pass you on your right and just blow through it completely. That has never happened in my whole life in the USA and I see it every day here.

Don't be defensive about Tjuanero drivers. They are what they are. You can't blame people for not driving civily at the worlds busiest car crossing. But we could make it a nicer experience for each other if not for the glaring cultural differences when it comes to how we drive.

[Edited on 6-7-2009 by Woooosh]

schwlind - 6-7-2009 at 02:00 PM

"... gringo drivers are as bad as mexican drivers. most all people lose civility at border crossing. "

I definitely have to agree with the above. It seems that every driver (almost without fail) turns into a total assh*** at the TJ border. There must be something in the air near the TJ border that brings on this nasty transformation. After 15 years of crossing primarily at TJ, I have very seldom had anyone give me a break. Frankly, I'm surprised that more people haven't been seriously injured at that crossing, considering how aggressive everyone drives there.

At the Tecate crossing (at least it was true the last time I crossed at the end of a holiday weekend -- I know--dumb thing to do), you don't have this melee going on! Everything appears orderly... and don't even try to cut in line there... the policia will turn your butt around and send you to the back of the line... which could be winding out of town... Far more civilized crossing rather than the TJ "free for all - bumper car fracus".