BajaNomad - Long Term Investment Opportunity

Long Term Investment Opportunity

Donjulio - 6-6-2009 at 11:44 AM

What does long term mean? Who knows. I would say the way the economy and the market is in San Felipe right now we are probably looking at 10 years.

This property is at El Huerfanitos - 109 kilometers south of San Felipe but only 17 kilometers south of Puertecitos.

Property is 2520 lineal feet of beachfront. 217 total acres. Title has already been transferred from original ejido owner to private individual. Title is clean and property is owned by a Mexican developer currently developing his 2nd project in San Felipe.

He wants to list it at $750,000 however I know that right now he would take $600,000 firm.

If anyone has been to Puertecitos or Gonzaga Bay lately they will know that the brand new road is almost finished to the property. Should be done in 60 days.

Lots of things are on the drawing board for Gonzaga and this is right on the way. Carlos Slim has been buying up a large amount of the property from San Felipe to Gonzaga. Must be a reason for that.

PLEASE ONLY SERIOUS INQUIRIES! THANKS

[Edited on 6-6-2009 by Donjulio]

gnukid - 6-6-2009 at 01:19 PM

750k at high tide, 600k at low tide.

Doesn't sound right-and note the title is fresh, that's not good-no chain of title. Property is described as .5 miles wide by 217 acres deep??? When I do the math its almost $3000/acre of questionable use butting against a stinky mud flat.

mtgoat666 - 6-6-2009 at 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Donjulio
Title is clean and...

Carlos Slim has been buying up a large amount of the property from San Felipe to Gonzaga. Must be a reason for that.

no such thing as clean title in mexico.

re slim buying mudflats and desert hellhole lands, when you find out the reason, and verify your ridiculous statement, why don't you tell us -- until then your statement is nonsense.

this is some of the least desireable beach in the world. it really is a mudflat. the temperature makes the area uninhabitable 6 months of the year.

Bajahowodd - 6-6-2009 at 02:01 PM

Which way to the egress? :lol:

longhairedbeatnik - 6-6-2009 at 02:16 PM

Wow,

Really tough crowd today.

I would wait until the next election to purchase any land in Mexico. The path the country takes at that point in its history will be a true test of its fairness to its population and its visitors.

The land purchase horror stories are coming up in numbers the last couple of years and that is rather disturbing. I am seeing and hearing these stories here and other places and hope the economy getting worse does not compound the problem.

:?:

Donjulio - 6-6-2009 at 03:31 PM

Well it is a tough crowd but that doesnt really concern me too much. I have been doing real estate in Mexico for 10 years and have been involved in $17,000,000 in closed sales and so far nobody has lost a property yet. So......

I don't understand the no chain of title comment - if you read the post again it says it was originally ejido. Land was legally privatized and is now currently owned by a Mexican whom I know very well. He is a well respected businessman (yes there are a lot of them here for all you naysayers LOL) and he privatized the property from the ejido owner.

If people do due dilligence here it isn't any different than buying in the states. Since this property is the size it is that would mean the buyer is probably putting it into a corporation which is then going to be a fee simple ownership.

There are certainly many more happy foreign landowners in Mexico then there are unhappy. You don't hear much from them though cause they are too busy doing the things they moved to Mexico for in the first place.

Like I asked - serious inquiries only. Thanks

Bajahowodd - 6-6-2009 at 04:17 PM

Must have worked at El Dorado to get those numbers.

gnukid - 6-6-2009 at 04:43 PM

Bwha ha ha of course mister "trust me" doesn't have the guts to post his name or number or identify himself in anyway... Totally trustworthy.

BTW I would suggest some caution here since this seems a little odd.

arrowhead - 6-6-2009 at 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Donjulio
If people do due dilligence here it isn't any different than buying in the states.

Due diligence in the States involves getting a preliminary title report from a title company showing all liens and claims on the property, zoning and easements. There is no such thing in Mexico. How do you do due diligence? All you need to ruin your life is for one ejiditario, or his heirs, to say, "Hey, I didn't vote on the sale. Give it back."

oxxo - 6-6-2009 at 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Donjulio
Land was legally privatized and is now currently owned by a Mexican whom I know very well. He is a well respected businessman

WAIT, WAIT, don't tell me! The land is owned by ramuma53. :lol:

Do I win? What is my prize? Turtle soup?

longhairedbeatnik - 6-6-2009 at 08:31 PM

Please see Loreto Bay thread

mtgoat666 - 6-7-2009 at 06:02 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Donjulio
If people do due dilligence here it isn't any different than buying in the states.

don julio is a comedian

Wow

Donjulio - 6-7-2009 at 10:30 AM

Well guys - anyone is welcome to U2U and get my name, company website, verifiable references etc.

Yes Mexico title can be searched back to 1917 and you can get title insurance even though quite honestly there are so many exclusions that it is pretty much worthless. But yes you can get a prelim title report and certs of no liens and encumbrances and everything else you can get in the states. Where do you guys get your information?

Someone will purchase this property and do something with it now or in the future so the negativity is really unfounded.

Remember 20 years ago that little mud flat in Cabo. Oh yeah - now they call it a marina and the company that owns the parking lot there turned down an offer of $110,000,000. Not bad for a mudflat.

Relax boys - if you don't have an interest you don't have an interest. This is a thread for real estate available for sale so the post is in the proper place and in the proper context.

[Edited on 6-7-2009 by Donjulio]

gnukid - 6-7-2009 at 10:48 AM

Our skepticism is reasonable considering your presentation, it's welcome criticism and advice if you are sincerely trying to do good work. Take it with a grain of salt, er mud.

The fact that are not making a more clear presentation is a red flag and your analogy is even more so misleading? Why? (we know why)

Seriously your analogy between the two properties is absolutely misleading? Cabo? and your introduction totally vague, as you know any serious boating activity in the location you have suggested or implied is physically impossible.

Apparently, you are setting a misleading trap for an unaware buyer.

There will never be a marina.

From what we know so far, which is very little, you are vague, false and misleading.

Why did you not provide more info? Why not answer the questions factually? What is your name?

I am being rhetorical-no need to answer.

Take it elsewhere pal.

Donjulio - 6-7-2009 at 11:03 AM

I would think that someone that was going to spend $600,000 would not be stupid enough to do so based on a post in the forum.

I would think they would contact me, come down to San Felipe, meet with me and the property owner, take a look at the property etc.

Then if interested, hire an attorney, do a title search, obtain a cert. of no liens and encumbrances, obtain a letter of title commitment, open an escrow and then meet with a Notario for the finalization of transfer of title.

Thats the way the big boys do it.

And btw - I posted in the forum so that someone that had a serious interest could contact me to get information. This is a place to give people notice of whats available. As far as being vague or presentation - the forum isn't the place for that. As far as not answering questions, I don't think that anyone has actually asked me a question.

As far as the reference to Cabo. Well in the early replies they stated that the area is a mudflat at low tides. All I said was so was the area in Cabo that is now a marina. Someone had the vision and foresight to turn a mudflat into a marina. I have already had someone contact me that was interested in using the area for aqua-culture. So every property has has a use and someone that has that vision will figure it out.

Next...

[Edited on 6-7-2009 by Donjulio]

[Edited on 6-7-2009 by Donjulio]

flyfishinPam - 6-7-2009 at 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Donjulio
I would think that someone that was going to spend $600,000 would not be stupid enough to do so based on a post in the forum.

longhairedbeatnik - 6-7-2009 at 11:25 AM

This is a joke,right.Tell us about your company and your name.

Donjulio - 6-7-2009 at 11:31 AM

www.sanfelipedevelopmenttours.com

mtgoat666 - 6-7-2009 at 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Donjulio
As far as not answering questions, I don't think that anyone has actually asked me a question.

ok, here are some questions:
what is your name?
what is link to your website?
what other properties have you brokered?
the area you refer to is alluvial fan so appears to be flood zone, is that correct?
your photo shows a house on the land, what are details about existing houses and occupants?

Donjulio - 6-7-2009 at 11:47 AM

I have posted the link to my website - that will give you a lot of information about me and my company and the properties that I deal with.

I am updating my website because my business partner Ron just passed away. You will see in my website the reason I started this particular company. If you look on the what you will learn on the tour page you will see that we give full disclosure on all the developments.

For those of you that are in San Felipe or familiar with San Felipe you will notice that a great majority of those developments are either closed or have stopped construction. However you will also find people still around that would gladly sell you something in one of them. That is why we started doing real estate the way we do it. If a development hasn't had any construction or progress we will tell you. If they are shut down, we will tell you. If they don't have the proper permits we will tell you. If there are lawsuits against the developer that we know of we will tell you. Doesn't make us very popular.

Unfortunately by the time we actually finished our due diligence we only came up with about 5 developments that are reasonably safe to buy in. DO NOT ask me to name them on a public forum because that would be professional suicide and open me to libel on the ones that aren't.

As far as the property south. One of the developers from the 5 owns that property. He has a good track record. As I mentioned someone will have use for 2520 feet of beachfront and that is still a phenomenal price. As far as the homes that are on the property. His property ends where those homes begin.

Once again, please, if you have a serious interest in the property as a buyer, contact me and I will provide any and all information that you want. Other than that, let it rest because even as slow as the market is here I am not going to waste time answering a bunch of questions on the forum just to satisfy someones skepticism.

With that said - you know who I am. You know where to find me.

Don Alley - 6-7-2009 at 01:36 PM

I think when we see the word "investment" in real estate sales pitches our ears perk up.

You may think that in such transactions only the buyer and seller are legitimate "interested parties." And that does seem to be the way things are done around here, where "due diligence" has been defined solely by those out chasing a buck, with no real consideration for long term social, environmental or economic conditions.

Almost everyone in Loreto has or will suffer some negative impacts from the Loreto Bay boondoggle.

Quote:

I would think that someone that was going to spend $600,000 would not be stupid enough to do so based on a post in the forum.

Right. I think you need at least a pretty website. And for the really careful buyer, a Big Name that you can trust.

drzura - 6-7-2009 at 01:39 PM

This sounds like another Loreto Bay scam. I think Don Julio needs to go drink some more of his tequila..

[Edited on 6-7-2009 by drzura]

Skeet/Loreto - 6-8-2009 at 02:40 PM

With over 30 years being in Baja Calif. I have a strong suggestion!

Go to Baja, LEASE do not buy at this time.
If you just have to use your money I would suggest you try the Hill country of Texas, Billings Montana, or the Houston Area South.

Hold on and then about ten years from now sell and put it in Baja if you Must.

Skeet/Loreto

BajaGringo - 6-8-2009 at 03:46 PM

Sorry Skeet, but I don't think Real Estate is a good deal north of the border either right now. I am convinced that the bottom of the market won't be seen until at least late next year. Everybody seems to be ignoring the ARM's that are going to hit a critical point in time mid 2010 and are predicted to add millions to the already record numbers of foreclosures.

I think anybody with property for sale today and who listed too high or worse yet - turned down an offer will be having some serious second thoughts come this time next year.

YMMV

:rolleyes:

[Edited on 6-8-2009 by BajaGringo]

tripledigitken - 6-8-2009 at 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BajaGringo
Sorry Skeet, but I don't think Real Estate is a good deal north of the border either right now. I am convinced that the bottom of the market won't be seen until at least late next year. Everybody seems to be ignoring the ARM's that are going to hit a critical point in time mid 2010 and are predicted to add millions to the already record numbers of foreclosures.

I think anybody with property for sale today and who listed too high or worse yet - turned down an offer will be having some serious second thoughts come this time next year.

YMMV

:rolleyes:

[Edited on 6-8-2009 by BajaGringo]

BG,

Please post here when it hits bottom.

Thanks

tripledigitken - 6-8-2009 at 04:05 PM

Skeet,

I think your suggestion to buy selected real estate now with a ten year horizon is sound advice. I would say the same applies for the stock market. Very few pick the bottom.

Ken

capt. mike - 6-8-2009 at 04:07 PM

if you think the recent residential market has had turmoil.....just wait until what is about to happen in commercial property notes occurs.....big time trouble....no money to handle the notes coming due, the fundamentals on rental investment properties, commercial buildings office and multifamily are tanking with cap rates imploding....it is about to become a bank REO & buyers freefall.....

BajaGringo - 6-8-2009 at 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by tripledigitken
BG,

Please post here when it hits bottom.

Thanks

I have no crystal ball Ken but I do listen to those who seem to have been right on in predicting the current state of affairs long before anybody saw an end in sight to the "boom". Adjustable mortgages are going to hurt the market badly - all you need to do is be able to read a graph...

The California budget crisis that will inevitably lead to large numbers of layoffs / salary cuts for so many state employees will certainly push this deeper. I really don't see any way it can be avoided. I know that you are much smarter than I am so please tell me how this is all a bunch of BS.

I sincerely do hope I am wrong and would love for somebody to convince me...

:rolleyes:

tripledigitken - 6-8-2009 at 04:25 PM

I didn't say i was smarter than you. People smarter than you and I are betting their money that the economy will improve. Pull up a chart and see the 30+% return in the market averages since March of this year.

Problem with your graph is that it assumes no improvement to the economy. That may be right it may be wrong. I'm not going to try and predict that.

Certainly I can have an opinion different from yours can't I? By you own admission you have been out of the stock market so you missed that little correction.

Operative message in Skeet's advise................10 year horizon. Even with your graph turning out to be correct.....his advice would still be sound advice.

Just one man's opinion.

Again, please let us know when it hits bottom. Because in my experience I have never been able to do that precisely.

Saludos,

Ken

BajaGringo - 6-8-2009 at 04:46 PM

Re-reading my last post I see that I do sound quite sarcastic and that wasn't my intention Ken - just the opposite. I am not that smart at forecasting economics which is why I have learned to listen to those who accurately forecast the "unpredictable" current state of affairs. If I was good at this stuff Ken, I would have done a lot of things different over the last 20 years and could easily have had a lot more money to work with today.

Getting out of the market when I did was gut feeling more than anything else and it is one of the few "smart" moves I have made.

Actually, it was probably more just simple luck...

One thing I am doing though is applying some simple old common sense. I have asked the question before and have yet had anybody give me any kind of answer proving me wrong. It can be extrapolated further in this discussion:

Global Economy = Global Standard of Living = Global Real Estate Values

It seems ridiculous at first to even consider such a thing as it goes completely against everything we have known up to now but yet I can't create a model in my mind to avoid it in the long run. I think there will always be the "haves" and the "have nots" and there will be choice chunks of land that are worth more than others. The difference IMHO is that we are moving toward a global model where this will not happen regionally as in the past but on a global scale.

That is what will hold the US economy down from any serious recovery I believe. I can't see any product or service that the USA can build or provide to compete on a global scale and offset the onslaught of foreign imported goods and services. With the current debt burden it seems like an insurmountable challenge at this point.

Bottom? Who knows? The only thing I feel for sure is that this certainly isn't it, and that is based on common sense more than anything else. In the coming months and as the graph above play out, it will become more clear as to what will happen. I took the time to do a few searches on google and found lots of folks who understand this a lot more than I do who seem to agree.

I'll make you a deal - I will bookmark this thread in my Outlook Calendar for next year and then bump it. If I am wrong, I will be the first to say so.

I actually hope I am - I have a grandson living in California and would like to think his future prospects will be as good as those I was fortunate to enjoy...

Sorry if you took my post the wrong way - I do appreciate and value your opinion Ken.

[Edited on 6-8-2009 by BajaGringo]

Marie-Rose - 6-8-2009 at 05:00 PM

Wow... I've been scrolling down and can't believe lasvegasron... oops, bajaron...has not had any great comments :lol:

dtbushpilot - 6-8-2009 at 05:14 PM

Thank goodness this post got hijacked and everyone got off of Donjulio's back. You guys really went after him just for posting real estate for sale in the correct place. Jeeeeese, the guy is just trying to make a living, lighten up.

I agree with you julio, anybody with $750,000 in disposable investment income these days is probably savy enough to know how to check out a possible investment opportunity.

Sorry my Nomad bretheren went after you, hope they don't come after me now......dt

Von - 6-8-2009 at 05:20 PM

Hey are they seeling property here or selling Don Julio Tequila?

Bajahowodd - 6-8-2009 at 05:31 PM

Ron. You have it about right. Unless world war three breaks out, we are going to seriously deal with a global economy. That include the fact that the USA is not going to necessarily dictate any of the terms. As a country, we've been living in a fool's paradise. International corporations only consider what is best for them and their shareholders. they have absolutely zero patriotism. Folks, get over it.

PASSSSSSSSSS ON IT!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bronco - 6-9-2009 at 07:44 AM

YOU GOTTA BE KIND'IN ME, US, THEM,

YO DONJULIO

Bronco - 6-9-2009 at 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Donjulio
Well it is a tough crowd but that doesnt really concern me too much. I have been doing real estate in Mexico for 10 years and have been involved in $17,000,000 in closed sales and so far nobody has lost a property yet. So......

With $17mill in commissions -BUY IT YOURSELF!!

[Edited on 6/9/2009 by Bronco]

GeoRock - 6-23-2009 at 09:37 AM

Captain Mike and Baja Gringo are both right in their economic assessments. Hold on to your pants, it's going to be a long ride.

capt. mike - 6-23-2009 at 10:08 AM

well.............i can tell you the ride down this flume has crippled me severely.

gonna take a long time to get back to wherever i was...and i'm not sure just where that was to tell you the truth. :!:

the Zepps said it best....Good Times, Bad Times...

what i would kill for would be a place on the east cape like close to dt....when those become good bargains.....well i can wish right?! :lol:

dtbushpilot - 6-23-2009 at 10:19 AM

Hey mike, if they become bargains I'll upgrade to something bigger and you can come down and hang out. Right now it seems that every third place is for sale but the prices are still where they were 2 years ago.....and the places are still for sale.....and will be for quite a while. I'm guessing that most folks that have property down there aren't hurting yet.....dt

As an amateur real estate"investor"

toneart - 6-23-2009 at 10:36 AM

I was lucky. I got out, not because I correctly identified the apex of the bubble, but because it was the right time in my life. I didn't want to work it with all the diligence that is necessary in order to succeed. I just want to fish and fart in Baja Sur.

I do keep a watch on current events, including the real estate market, just to make sure I wasn't a dumb s**t, and to be able to gloat. My cerebral indicators aren't very optimistic about a recovery any time soon. I think BajaGringo's graph is too optimistic.

My gut doesn't tell me anything because it is no longer involved in anything but the pursuit of culinary delight. I hate it whenever I err in that endeavor. :barf:

With apologies to DonJulio, in my retirement I am perfecting the philosophy of Nihilism. :smug:

tripledigitken - 6-23-2009 at 10:53 AM

In an effort to be the the sole provider of positive economic news let me share this:

San Diego County Housing prices May 2009

New Home/Condo May 08 $435,000

May 09 $476,000 +9.4%

Resale Houses May 08 1782 ea

May 09 2068 ea +16%

No question its gloomy out there, but there are signs of improvement.

Ken

http://www.signonsandiego.com/sdhomes/area_homesales/index.p...

cool, looking forard to that.

capt. mike - 6-23-2009 at 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by dtbushpilot
Hey mike, if they become bargains I'll upgrade to something bigger and you can come down and hang out. Right now it seems that every third place is for sale but the prices are still where they were 2 years ago.....and the places are still for sale.....and will be for quite a while. I'm guessing that most folks that have property down there aren't hurting yet.....dt

east cape was always my dream since staying at R. Leonero in 1990, diving. Parked at Los Barriles back then. right in front of Palmas.
Mulege became an experimental pre retirement gig but i lost it in 2008.

i have flying friends still with a place at a pista privada, El Rincon, close to Los Frailes. their airport might be under attack by the developers so who knows if they'll retain fly in rights.
i'd have a tough time staying on the east cape with out a plane safely close by. but options are ever waning it seems.

puntas colo and pesca and Fralies might end up a the only ones left. bummer.

toneart - 6-23-2009 at 11:02 AM

"If everyone is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking."

George S. Patton

k-rico - 6-23-2009 at 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by toneart
My cerebral indicators aren't very optimistic about a recovery any time soon. I think BajaGringo's graph is too optimistic.

in my retirement I am perfecting the philosophy of Nihilism. :smug:

Nihilism is good.

As far as your cerebral indicators,

"Consider our track record over the past 20 years, starting with the stock-market crash of 1987, when on Oct. 19 the Dow Jones lost 23 percent, the largest one-day loss in its history. The legendary economist John Kenneth Galbraith wrote that he just hoped that the coming recession wouldn't prove as painful as the Great Depression. It turned out to be a blip on the way to an even bigger, longer boom. Then there was the 1997 East Asian crisis, during the depths of which Paul Krugman wrote in a Fortune cover essay, "Never in the course of economic events—not even in the early years of the Depression—has so large a part of the world economy experienced so devastating a fall from grace." He went on to argue that if Asian countries did not adopt his radical strategy—currency controls—"we could be looking at?.?.?.?the kind of slump that 60 years ago devastated societies, destabilized governments, and eventually led to war." Only one Asian country instituted currency controls, and partial ones at that. All rebounded within two years."

http://www.newsweek.com/id/201935

[Edited on 6-23-2009 by k-rico]