BajaNomad

Breaking News: Loreto Bay Baja resort, unable to find new buyer, suspends operations

 Pages:  1  

bajabound2005 - 6-6-2009 at 07:36 PM

Nomads around the world will be shocked to read this:


Breaking News: Loreto Bay Baja resort, unable to find new buyer, suspends operations
by Clinton Stark on Saturday, June 6, 2009

TSD Partners today informed homeowners that all operating and construction activities on the Loreto Bay project will be suspended. The announcement follows months of speculation regarding a potential new buyer for the financially struggling development.

Launched in 2004, the original vision called for a 5,000 unit mega-resort with walkable seaside village homes located along the Sea of Cortez, and 20 minutes from the small fishing village of Loreto in Baja California Sur, Mexico. In 2007, Citibank invested in the project bringing needed capital and management resources.

A combination of the global economic downturn, the real estate crisis, banking failures and the continual deluge of negative headlines related to Mexico’s escalating drug wars appear to be contributing factors.

The homeowner email is below. StarkSilverCreek will carry updates, along with editorials on the project, and what may happen next, along with advice for homeowners.


(this is the email sent to homeowners):

Loreto, BCS, June 6, 2009

Dear Homeowners,

TSD Loreto Partners, S. en C. por A. de C.V. (the “Company”) regrets to inform its clients and stakeholders that, due to the challenging situation in the international real estate and financial markets, all operating and construction activities for Loreto Bay (the “Project”) will be suspended.

To assist in securing new equity funding and a long-term suitable buyer for the Project the Company hired Cushman & Wakefield. Several potential buyers and investors have visited the Project over the last few months, yet in the context of the current economic crisis and credit shortage, the Project has been unable to secure a buyer or new investor.

We regret to inform you that until new funds are secured, as of June 7th, 2009 all hospitality related operations will be suspended and as of June 8th, 2009 all construction related activities will be suspended.

Please note that all homeowners with a home under construction, and all other homeowners will receive further information as it becomes available.

Best regards,

Embree C. “Chuck” Bedsole
Interim President
TSD Loreto Partners, S. en C. por A. de C.V

[Source: email sent to homeowners, also available at the Loreto Bay News web site]

DENNIS - 6-6-2009 at 07:46 PM

Hopefully and soon, we'll have similar news about Punta Brava, the Tiger Woods nightmare.

bajabound2005 - 6-6-2009 at 07:52 PM

that one, Dennis, I'm not hopeful about...but still hope. At least at this point if Punta Brava is a no go, no one gets hurt (in the "homeowner" arena)

DENNIS - 6-6-2009 at 07:55 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by bajabound2005
that one, Dennis, I'm not hopeful about...but still hope. At least at this point if Punta Brava is a no go, no one gets hurt (in the "homeowner" arena)


Agreed...Just hopeful. Bad news for them will be good news for me.

bajabound2005 - 6-6-2009 at 07:56 PM

Wow! Dennis and I agree on something! Everyone have one on us!

gnukid - 6-6-2009 at 08:13 PM

Old Hippy was right all along! Hah

longhairedbeatnik - 6-6-2009 at 08:28 PM

This is very bad news as I have a friend who has an unfinished home there and she has been frantic for many months because of the lack of progress in the contracted build. As this was one of the most cross promoted developments in recent years in Canada and the USA, the fallout will be far reaching and will cause untold damage to the market in Mexico in general.
First Trump and now this.

I feel very sorry for the poor people who paid up front for a home and will now not see the home or their funds. Does anyone have any numbers on the non completed homes and homes that have yet to be started. :no:

David K - 6-6-2009 at 10:15 PM

Man o man... how many saw this coming back in 2004?

Very sad that any advanced payments and money already invested are lost...

Like Puerto Escondido, another unfinished mess to blemish the once beautiful region!

MikeLikeBaja - 6-6-2009 at 10:33 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by David K
Man o man... how many saw this coming back in 2004?

Very sad that any advanced payments and money already invested are lost...

Like Puerto Escondido, another unfinished mess to blemish the once beautiful region!



what happened in Puerto Escondido? Oaxaca right?

Loretana - 6-7-2009 at 12:42 AM

Mike,
The Puerto Escondido that DK is referring to is a natural port south of Loreto that has been a well known "hurricane hole" for many years.
An ambitious port development that FONATUR started back in the 70's has been sputtering and fizzling out down there for years.

But hey man, I surfed Zipolite (near Puerto Escondido, Oaxaca) back in my hippy days in 1973. Wild!:dudette:

flyfishinPam - 6-7-2009 at 06:00 AM

sounds like the hotel will be closing as well from this announcement?
what about the golf course?
The other day when toting groceries from ISSSTE to Salvatierra I was surprised to see their downtown office closed down. The following day they were moving out the furniture and removing the fixtures.



there are more unemployed in Loreto than ever. Guys from the mainland brought over by contractors for LB washing cars, windows, looking for work anything. Loreto has never had this before. Thanks LB and other developers, you should be held responsible for them after all you are obligated to provide their transportation back home in accordance with the Ley Federal del Trabajo.

hippie person your friend with the unfinished house needs to take legal action against the persons responsible, Butterfield and Grogan. I feel for them but the writing WAS on the wall.

CaboRon - 6-7-2009 at 06:01 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by David K
Man o man... how many saw this coming back in 2004?

Very sad that any advanced payments and money already invested are lost...

Like Puerto Escondido, another unfinished mess to blemish the once beautiful region!


Well .... Suprise .... Suprise

Do NOT pay until the product is complete ....

When will we learn the truth about mexico ....

It is a lawless country .... you have NO protection ...

Do NOT buy or invest in mexico ....

As a gringo you are merely a target ......

flyfishinPam - 6-7-2009 at 06:04 AM

Regarding Puerto Esconcido FONATUR has big plans for PE (almost 2 billion dollars worth). There was a public hearing held in March about this project and there was a LOT of local opposition. They are now supposed to be working on a new MIA (EIR) and should be presenting it again soon. When the public hearings are announced I can announce them here it is important we participate. The good thing is that they'll have a very difficult time getting investors now after this.

flyfishinPam - 6-7-2009 at 06:29 AM

here is the link to the original source bajabound posted:

http://www.starksilvercreek.com/2009/06/breaking-news-loreto...

you may leave comments in the comments section below.

unlike the official posting ffrom Loreto Bay which is static-
http://www.loretobaynews.com

one thing that I must stress here-
Loreto and Loretanos will survive this we have never depended on Loreto Bay. Yes there will be loss of employment due to this but most of it was contract and service related low quality low paid jobs. Loretanos have lived through many a hard time and I am proud to stand by them and work shoulder to shoulder and get through this together with them. Don't underestimate this place.


:dudette:

rhintransit - 6-7-2009 at 06:38 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by David K
Man o man... how many saw this coming back in 2004?

Very sad that any advanced payments and money already invested are lost...

Like Puerto Escondido, another unfinished mess to blemish the once beautiful region!


well, Pto Escondido is alive again. major money kicked into major repaving of the streets, new lights, etc. major major money. no lots for sale yet. (or ever?) supposedly because there has been no sewage solution. there is a golf course planned stretching along the north side of the road in, all the way from the water to the highway. would not be surprised if this Pto E development, like the last, fades into the concrete unfinished jungle.

stanburn - 6-7-2009 at 06:46 AM

I knew we could count on CaboRon to post one of his general doom and gloom messages. Maybe he oughta change his name to LasVegasRon.

CaboRon - 6-7-2009 at 06:53 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by stanburn
I knew we could count on CaboRon to post one of his general doom and gloom messages. Maybe he oughta change his name to LasVegasRon.


You haven't learned yet from the endless stories of Americans being ripped off by mexicans ??

Get your head out of the sand :lol:

Pescador - 6-7-2009 at 07:06 AM

I drove through the development about 1 1/2 weeks ago while waiting for the airplane to arrive and was surprised with the number of people working on construction. I can just imagine the havoc that raised with all of the workers there. We have several families who were down there working from San Bruno who will obviously be back looking for local work.

capt. mike - 6-7-2009 at 07:14 AM

"I feel very sorry for the poor people who paid up front for a home and will now not see the home or their funds. "

huh??!! Caveat Emptor, friend.
when will fools learn? Cabo Ron is RIGHT!

it's mexico - there are no guarantees. never pay up front unless it's finished and you can inspect it.....and don't get me started on title insurance.
yes it is a lawless 3rd world country. but that's why i like going there. buying there.....that is a whole 'nother new can of beans.:!::O

mtgoat666 - 6-7-2009 at 07:25 AM

how many people bought into the development? and how many houses actually got built? wondering how many people got burned.

and what about people that already took possession of houses -- do they still have sufficient services to take advantage of their houses?

longhairedbeatnik - 6-7-2009 at 07:40 AM

It has been brought to my attention that some of the former workers have been taking sinks,toilets and the like from some of the homes there. My friend who has a place there has been told this by someone who is there trying to sort this out. She is trying to book a flight and get down there. Does anyone know a decent lawyer in Loreto that is honest and can be trusted to deal with this mess.

drzura - 6-7-2009 at 07:47 AM

All I can say is do not invest more than you are willing to lose. With Mexican law and land deals very murky at best, do not put your entire savings into an investment in Mexico. It may work out for some, but others will get burned.

Don Alley - 6-7-2009 at 08:45 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by longhairedbeatnik
Does anyone know a decent lawyer in Loreto that is honest and can be trusted to deal with this mess.


:lol::lol::lol:

A lawyer? What's lawyer going to do? Sue someone? Who?

Are the business people any more liable for their bad decisions than the buyers (who are mostly investors themselves) are for their bad decisions?

805gregg - 6-7-2009 at 08:50 AM

I've been watching this happen since the 60's. In Baja norte how many times have they put up signs and built a fancy entry, then nothing else. Now they just have fancier marketing and can target more potential victums.

ligui - 6-7-2009 at 08:54 AM

Everyone that has invested , still have title to their land , ?

longhairedbeatnik - 6-7-2009 at 08:59 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Don Alley
Quote:
Originally posted by longhairedbeatnik
Does anyone know a decent lawyer in Loreto that is honest and can be trusted to deal with this mess.


:lol::lol::lol:

A lawyer? What's lawyer going to do? Sue someone? Who?

Are the business people any more liable for their bad decisions than the buyers (who are mostly investors themselves) are for their bad decisions?




You might be right but I can only speak for my friend. She is a schoolteacher who bought the home to retire in later this year. She was misled and lied to about progress on her house so that payments to Loreto Bay would continue. Its been nothing more than a scam and yes, she should not have trusted these people but its done now.
Its outright robbery and its wrong.

Don Alley - 6-7-2009 at 09:32 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by longhairedbeatnik
Quote:
Originally posted by Don Alley
Quote:
Originally posted by longhairedbeatnik
Does anyone know a decent lawyer in Loreto that is honest and can be trusted to deal with this mess.


:lol::lol::lol:

A lawyer? What's lawyer going to do? Sue someone? Who?

Are the business people any more liable for their bad decisions than the buyers (who are mostly investors themselves) are for their bad decisions?




You might be right but I can only speak for my friend. She is a schoolteacher who bought the home to retire in later this year. She was misled and lied to about progress on her house so that payments to Loreto Bay would continue. Its been nothing more than a scam and yes, she should not have trusted these people but its done now.
Its outright robbery and its wrong.


Sounds like she needs a contractor to finish her house. She can probably get one that will work cheaper than LB's. I can recommend one. If she has some kind of title or claim to the property she can still proceed with her plans, as can the other folks down there.

But, uh, yeah, to do all that they may need...a lawyer.

OK, my bad, my apologies!:lol:

tripledigitken - 6-7-2009 at 09:38 AM

Beatnik,

Sorry for your friends situation. I only wish you and she had been following the postings about Loreto Bay here over the last 2 years. Many negative parts to this story have been discussed and anyone reading them would certainly have seen the red flags.

The real lack of follow through with the infrastructure development issues early one was the clue to me that this project would not deliver as promised.


Ken

longhairedbeatnik

longlegsinlapaz - 6-7-2009 at 10:55 AM

I only know enough about Loreto Bay to know that it's a development I'd never get suckered into....but that being said, typically, any construction here, while it may be done on behalf of the "owner/buyer/purchaser", doesn't become the actual property of the "owner/buyer/purchaser" until construction is completed & manifested with the proper agencies. In other words, mid-construction the builder retains authority & responsibility until he legally signs it off to the "owner/buyer/purchaser".

Your friend is in a very bad position because of all the negative publicity driven by mis-use of "owner/buyer/purchaser" funds, as well as the overwhelming negativity associated with Loreto Bay through their poor management of the entire project in general. I think the best thing she could do right now....IF she can FIND someone within the Loreto Bay organization who has legal power to sign the full rights to the property over to her, that's the route I'd pursue. Then I'd secure the property to prevent theft of materials/fixtures/plumbing/wiring/etc. When the dust settles, if it ever does, then she'd need to contract someone to finish it for her.

But in my mind, there are many, many questions I'd ask to determine the smartest route to take.

~ How much does she have invested at this point?
~ How close to completion is the structure?
~ How much more $ would she have to put into it to complete?
~ Is there currently enough/any infrastructure installed & operational within the development to
support someone living in the casa if it were to be completed?
~ Does she have a Fideicomiso to the property in her name?

IMHO, she mas more going against her than she has going for her, but I'm basing my comments on general knowledge & experience of buying land & building in Baja in general, NOT any personal knowledge/experience with Loreto Bay.

Common sense tells me the fact that the Loreto Bay office has been stripped & closed, combined with the company letter of notification tells me your friend has most likely got a long & expensive uphill legal battle against her. At this point in time, based on what I've read here alone, I sincerely doubt that her paying an attorney at this point in time would achieve anything other than simply pouring good money after bad.:no:

I know that the letter stated that LB would be in contact with people with homes currently under construction (yeah, I'd believe that WHEN it happens) but has she been in direct contact with anyone in authority?

Sorry that your friend finds herself in this position, especially in light of all the negativity surrounding Loreto Bay since the development first hit the drawing boards; how she could have missed the negative publicity & bought into it is beyond me, but she did & now is asking for help to cut her losses....so how about showing a little compassion & cutting her a little slack everyone? :yes:

vandenberg - 6-7-2009 at 11:00 AM

They call it "THE PROJECT", should have been "THE PROJECTS". A more fitting name could be "THE LORETO GHETTO".
Right now it resembles Hamburg, Berlin or Dresden in 1945.
There isn't, even after 4 years, one area in the whole project that's actually finished. Most so called completed areas have barren circles and patches obviously destined for statues or fountains or the like. If there ever was a contest for an A1 boondoggle,this one would cerainly be in the running.

And Longlegs,
Compassion should be reserved for children, old folks, whose mental capacities have deteriorated, people of diminished capacity, but not for folks who apparently were smart enough to scrape together a big chunk of money to plunk down. To my way of thinking, they don't deserve any better.

[Edited on 6-7-2009 by vandenberg]

flyfishinPam - 6-7-2009 at 11:09 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by longhairedbeatnik

Does anyone know a decent lawyer in Loreto that is honest and can be trusted to deal with this mess.


my long term Loretana advice, no honest lawyer exists in this country. the best way to fight this legally is do it stateside (or province side). this is honest and true advice.

Good advice

Dave - 6-7-2009 at 11:26 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by flyfishinPam
my long term Loretana advice, no honest lawyer exists in this country.


And I would add judges to the list. However, this presents an opportunity...

Justice can be purchased.

longhairedbeatnik - 6-7-2009 at 11:35 AM

This is the info I have so far. A letter or email arrived several weeks ago telling her the project was 70% complete and would she forward her payment to the company. She emailed for some pictures to show the work completed and was forwarded pictures of her home. She paid the payment due at that time. Two days ago,one of other homeowners sent here pictures of her house and it is less than 20% completed . The company sent her pictures of another home that looked like her floorplan and scammed her into making another payment.
She has her sales contract but title and her bank trust were to follow completion of the home and her final payment.
She has paid over $265,000.00 dollars so far. It would appear that they have been doing a bait and switch when it comes to draw payments and did so by sending pictures of another unit. They were trying to get as much cash out before the crash of the project is my impression.
Completing the home is not an option as it appears she does not even own it yet. It is a mess.:mad:

[Edited on 6-7-2009 by longhairedbeatnik]

flyfishinPam - 6-7-2009 at 11:43 AM

I am so sorry about your friend beatnick. Seeing what you wrote about how she was deceived it is truly sad. This information does need to be made public however so that future buyers will be forwarned.

"It would appear that they have been doing a bait and switch when it comes to draw payments and did so by sending pictures of another unit. They were trying to get as much cash out before the crash of the project is my impression."

unfortunately they've been "borrowing from Peter to pay Paul" for a very long time which is partially why they failed.

I have to say that when this project was first announced I was supportive of it. Loreto needed some kind of economic stimulation and this seemed like an excellent solution. Plans for Nopolo were for Acapulco style sprawling tourism projects which just won't work here. So the concept of LB was very appealing. Then the project just kept getting bigger and bigger eventually planning for two golf courses, several villages including 6000 homes, timeshares and hotels to add another 800 rooms. This Nomad board peaked my curiosity to look into this further and finally to become completely skeptical. A few years ago I was providing tourism services to their guests and buyers that needed to be appeased. After this service was provided getting payment from them was very difficult. I finally did get paid and never again did any direct business with them or the hotel. I hear of other service providers who weren't so lucky my heart goes out to them, and the workers who are being and will be laid off.

comitan - 6-7-2009 at 11:59 AM

This project is probably under a Master Fideicomiso and if the Holder goes bankrupt then all of the project would be owned by the lender.

flyfishinPam - 6-7-2009 at 12:03 PM

hey Vandenberg, we know you live in Nopolo so can you be our eyes and ears on the ground for tomorrow?

I just called an inginero friend of mine who is in La Paz right now (and works for LB) and he was dam-ned surprised about this news. Even hotel staff according to the Stark Silver Creek comments section, are oblivious (although I'd imagine they're figuring it out now).

There was supposed to be a series of World Heritage Alliance meetings tomorrow and Tuesday at the Inn but now they're figuring out where to hold them since it will be closed there.

I am wondering how many employees know about this now? I am wondering if there may be a riot there in the morning? LOTS of people showing up to work will only just be finding out when they show up to work. They announced it on a Saturday evening knowing that people would only find out in Monday. Perhaps todays flight can be named the "exile flight" as I'd imagine several key players may be escaping what could take place mañana.

vandenberg - 6-7-2009 at 12:15 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by flyfishinPam
There was supposed to be a series of World Heritage Alliance meetings tomorrow and Tuesday at the Inn but now they're figuring out where to hold them since it will be closed there.



Well Pam,
Don't know where you found that news. That's definitely news to me.:?:
But I will take a ride to the beach and see if I can get the dope on the hotel.
Back later.

[Edited on 6-7-2009 by vandenberg]

vandenberg - 6-7-2009 at 01:18 PM

Just back from the hotel/Inn.
This afternoon it will close. All :P:lol: guests are transfered to hotels in town. Will stay closed till further notice, iow will be a while.
And for further news: The golfcourse, where they just spend 13.2 Mil ( dollars that is ) will close shortly. Lots of folks holding prepaid tickets for multiple rounds, which, of course :mad: will be forfeited.
And here go all the homeowner amenities with the hotel closing.

Cypress - 6-7-2009 at 01:21 PM

It didn't take a rocket scientist to see this coming.

k-rico - 6-7-2009 at 04:06 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by comitan
This project is probably under a Master Fideicomiso and if the Holder goes bankrupt then all of the project would be owned by the lender.


comitan,

Master Fideicomiso??

What's that? Are you saying that the people who have completed houses that are paid for in full do not have their own fideicomisos where the parcel their house is on is defined as the property in the trust and they are the sole beneficiaries?

comitan - 6-7-2009 at 04:24 PM

Many large developments are under a master Fido, its just the way its done. The only reason I know this is because we had friends in Cabo that the contractor had a Master Fido for the development and went under before it was completed, the owners had to buy back their homes from the bank at a negotiated price.

k-rico - 6-7-2009 at 04:30 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by comitan
Many large developments are under a master Fido, its just the way its done. The only reason I know this is because we had friends in Cabo that the contractor had a Master Fido for the development and went under before it was completed, the owners had to buy back their homes from the bank at a negotiated price.


They paid for their house twice?

k-rico - 6-7-2009 at 04:36 PM

So Americans scammed other Americans and the Mexicans will be seen as the evil doers.

comitan - 6-7-2009 at 04:36 PM

Yes, but a negotiated price I don't know. Actually when they buy something like this it looks good on paper,But!!

k-rico - 6-7-2009 at 04:44 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by comitan
Yes, but a negotiated price I don't know. Actually when they buy something like this it looks good on paper,But!!


I think I understand, thanks.

Don Alley - 6-7-2009 at 04:49 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by k-rico
So Americans scammed other Americans and the Mexicans will be seen as the evil doers.


Well, yes, but remember, FONATUR was in on this from the beginning, and there were Mexican contractors involved. Did they scam the developers? I'm not saying.:lol:

k-rico - 6-7-2009 at 05:09 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Don Alley
Quote:
Originally posted by k-rico
So Americans scammed other Americans and the Mexicans will be seen as the evil doers.


Well, yes, but remember, FONATUR was in on this from the beginning, and there were Mexican contractors involved. Did they scam the developers? I'm not saying.:lol:


I hope so. Business people scamming each other are simply doing business. Scamming school teachers out of their savings is quite a different story.

Cypress - 6-7-2009 at 05:15 PM

Somebody said "There's a sucker born every day." or something like that. The average Mexican is just as honest as the average gringo and probably smarter.:bounce:

Jack Swords - 6-7-2009 at 05:16 PM

More info:

http://www.starksilvercreek.com/

LancairDriver - 6-7-2009 at 05:28 PM

Maybe "The Donald" could jump in and pick up the project. Heck, they could drag the billboard with his picture on it down from Baja Norte and start the Trump scam all over again.

DENNIS - 6-7-2009 at 05:52 PM

I think it's going to be on the news right after the Lakers win tonight that Tiger Woods is going to abandon Punta Brava and take his groupies to Loreto and resurect the project.
Yup... You betcha.

CaboRon - 6-7-2009 at 05:59 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by LancairDriver
Maybe "The Donald" could jump in and pick up the project. Heck, they could drag the billboard with his picture on it down from Baja Norte and start the Trump scam all over again.



longhairedbeatnik - 6-7-2009 at 06:17 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Jack Swords
More info:

http://www.starksilvercreek.com/



FlyfishingPam,

If you go to this link and look in the comments section,the Loreto Bay homeowners are furious about a comment you left there. I would backtrack on it if I were you as this bunch is as friendly as a beehive on the ground right now.
Its none of my business but I thought I would give you a heads up.

flyfishinPam - 6-7-2009 at 07:19 PM

I really feel for those who were lied to like the schoolteacher. Some of those who attacked me for making the comment are ones who benefited from the sorts of lies like were described by longhairedbeatnick. That particular homeowner was told to continue paying, shown a different property when she asked percentage of completion before making said payment. Openly deceived. She stands to lose over a quarter of a million dollars maybe her life savings! How many more of those kinds of cases are there? Also LB was trying very hard to sell golf memberships as Vandenberg stated right up to the date of this announcement. Outrageous!

There was a comment in there to the effect that many people may lose much of their savings, yet owners of partially built homes were continually encouraged to keep making payments. That is beyond unacceptable. Nothing I wrote was untrue and my main message was "You cannot change Loreto. Loreto changes you." took me a long time to learn that but finally it sunk in. And I am sorry that I may offend some people but I am passionate about this place, also I don't lie to make a buck, quite the opposite.

I am more concerned for the hundreds of workers from the mainland whose families will no longer receive dinero to support them back home. They chose to stay in Mexico to do this and not go to el otro lado, I think that is noble. Who will pay them their back pay? Who will pay their severance (liquidation) that is required by law? How will they buy food to eat? where will they live? Will they stay here and look for work to get back on their feet, displacing Loretanos of work they would have otherwise gotten? what about the life savings of these people or is it not enough for them to be considered "stakeholders" so they should be ignored?

There are now over 50 people living in the municipal dump! Children too, eating and using what people throw in the garbage. Is this the vision they had?

Now it is up to us who had nothing to do with this, to clean up the fallout. I am not making this up, geeze I couldn't make it up this is what was created by greed, house flippers, rentors without proper immigration documents, others openly working without said immigration documents. Us regular folks have to play by the rules so should they. It is infuriating and will affect all of us here.

If they didn't want comments from the public then they should have left out the comments section. trackback? I'm not sure how to go about that as the only comment I could make in there would be in the form of a question to the ex VP of Sustainability who's been commenting. It would be- what exactly was sustainable about this project? and the threats to my business in there, amenazas vacios.

Loretana - 6-7-2009 at 07:36 PM

Muy bien dicho, Pam.

Marie-Rose - 6-7-2009 at 08:04 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Loretana
Muy bien dicho, Pam.


I agree... very well said Pam. I remember in the early days of Loreto Bay when you were optimistic and hoping that all the hype was going to be positive for the locals.
How very sad it is... not for the rich who will not have their way of life changed much, but for the poor workers that you described.:no::no::no:

JESSE - 6-7-2009 at 08:11 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by CaboRon
Quote:
Originally posted by David K
Man o man... how many saw this coming back in 2004?

Very sad that any advanced payments and money already invested are lost...

Like Puerto Escondido, another unfinished mess to blemish the once beautiful region!


Well .... Suprise .... Suprise



Do NOT pay until the product is complete ....

When will we learn the truth about mexico ....

It is a lawless country .... you have NO protection ...

Do NOT buy or invest in mexico ....

As a gringo you are merely a target ......


We NEVER pay unless complete or backed by goverment agencies caboron, it is foreign companies who sell to foreigners using that pyramid scheme scam that are to blame. If you don´t know how to play the game, then don´t, but don´t say things that are not true.

gnukid - 6-7-2009 at 08:17 PM

Baja always reclaims itself.

BajaBruno - 6-7-2009 at 08:36 PM

This is a heartrending situation for the homeowners at Loreto Bay and I wish them well. I know nothing of this development, other than seeing it as I occasionally pass by, so I did a little reading.

Arizona is one of the states that requires foreign real estate advertisers to have their property inspected by the state. Arizona’s report is here: http://services.azre.gov/publicdatabase/DetailDevelopment.as...
Click on “Public Report” to open the pdf document.

That report seems to read that Baja Developments and TSD Loreto Partners are the same people, though perhaps I am mistaken. Well, I must be mistaken, because I read here (http://dockets.justia.com/docket/court-azdce/case_no-2:2009c... ) that two months ago Baja Developments sued TSD Loreto Partners in federal district court for breach of contract.

I don’t know the details, of course, because you’d have to go to the clerk’s office with copy money in your hand to get the filings, but the timing doesn’t seem accidental given what happened this week.

CaboRon - 6-7-2009 at 09:10 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by JESSE
Quote:
Originally posted by CaboRon
Quote:
Originally posted by David K
Man o man... how many saw this coming back in 2004?

Very sad that any advanced payments and money already invested are lost...

Like Puerto Escondido, another unfinished mess to blemish the once beautiful region!


Well .... Suprise .... Suprise



Do NOT pay until the product is complete ....

When will we learn the truth about mexico ....

It is a lawless country .... you have NO protection ...

Do NOT buy or invest in mexico ....

As a gringo you are merely a target ......


We NEVER pay unless complete or backed by goverment agencies caboron, it is foreign companies who sell to foreigners using that pyramid scheme scam that are to blame. If you don´t know how to play the game, then don´t, but don´t say things that are not true.


It appears a lot of people did pay and did lose their money on this one.

And why is it that mexicans seem to think that this is all a game anyway.....

flyfishinPam - 6-7-2009 at 09:15 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Marie-Rose
Quote:
Originally posted by Loretana
Muy bien dicho, Pam.


I agree... very well said Pam. I remember in the early days of Loreto Bay when you were optimistic and hoping that all the hype was going to be positive for the locals.
How very sad it is... not for the rich who will not have their way of life changed much, but for the poor workers that you described.:no::no::no:


thanks. sometimes I wonder about myself. I speak before thinking but that is something many can be guilty of at times.

Yes I was very optimistic for Loreto, for myself friends and family but then information started to come in. Observations, information, facts, interviews, then the comments in person, verbal and in writing. I saw the start of their community wanting to create a sort of private club out of this area, shutting local Loretanos out of what belongs to them. And it was and still is insulting. There are even those who have already said that 'now with all these workers out of jobs we'll finally get services at reasonable prices'! when in fact they are the very ones that drove said prices up in the first place!

I'm no genius, I'm not rich and know nada about finances or investments I just work, like what I do and like who I work with and am serious about what we do. I just don't get why so many of these buyers, the elite, and schooled in finance and investing, successful business people fell into this trap. How could they tolerate the slow progress on those homes that were mostly paid for? Also isn't an investment a risk? It doesn't always pay off and sometimes it can be lost.


Well as Jesse said this was a pyramid scheme. The ones that benefited the most were the ones that came up with this scheme and fled with millions when they heard the echo in the well. And one of those same persons bid on the project and what's more shocking is that many of the owners were ready to welcome him back! Why didn't they see what we saw?

know what else is frustrating? I have three family members who were enjoying their day off and were figuring for a regular monday morning back to work at LB. I told them that there will probably not be a job when they get there tomorrow. and they had to find this out from me because after I sent out boats this morning I read about it on the nomad board!

Von - 6-7-2009 at 09:22 PM

lol

flyfishinPam - 6-7-2009 at 09:25 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by BajaBruno
This is a heartrending situation for the homeowners at Loreto Bay and I wish them well. I know nothing of this development, other than seeing it as I occasionally pass by, so I did a little reading.

Arizona is one of the states that requires foreign real estate advertisers to have their property inspected by the state. Arizona’s report is here: http://services.azre.gov/publicdatabase/DetailDevelopment.as...
Click on “Public Report” to open the pdf document.

That report seems to read that Baja Developments and TSD Loreto Partners are the same people, though perhaps I am mistaken. Well, I must be mistaken, because I read here (http://dockets.justia.com/docket/court-azdce/case_no-2:2009c... ) that two months ago Baja Developments sued TSD Loreto Partners in federal district court for breach of contract.

I don’t know the details, of course, because you’d have to go to the clerk’s office with copy money in your hand to get the filings, but the timing doesn’t seem accidental given what happened this week.


From this article:
http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/stories/2003/08/04/story4...

"Construction of the first residences is to start in September with the first homes ready for delivery as early as first-quarter 2004. Financing for the project will be arranged by Baja Developments LLC, a New York company formed by The Trust for Sustainable Development, a not-for-profit, federally chartered land and community development corporation active in Canada and the United States."

this is so twisted and incestuous they are suing themselves!

JESSE - 6-7-2009 at 10:15 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by CaboRon
Quote:
Originally posted by JESSE
Quote:
Originally posted by CaboRon
Quote:
Originally posted by David K
Man o man... how many saw this coming back in 2004?

Very sad that any advanced payments and money already invested are lost...

Like Puerto Escondido, another unfinished mess to blemish the once beautiful region!


Well .... Suprise .... Suprise



Do NOT pay until the product is complete ....

When will we learn the truth about mexico ....

It is a lawless country .... you have NO protection ...

Do NOT buy or invest in mexico ....

As a gringo you are merely a target ......


We NEVER pay unless complete or backed by goverment agencies caboron, it is foreign companies who sell to foreigners using that pyramid scheme scam that are to blame. If you don´t know how to play the game, then don´t, but don´t say things that are not true.


It appears a lot of people did pay and did lose their money on this one.

And why is it that mexicans seem to think that this is all a game anyway.....


Because from our standpoint, giving money to people you don´t know for a drawing of something that may or may not ever become real, seems crazy.

The Mexican legal system is far from perfect, but saying this nation is lawless, is plain ignorant.

Dear Jesse

Gypsy Jan - 6-7-2009 at 10:27 PM

Amen.

Cabo Ron (cabron?) can rant, but he doesn't know s.... about the people, the culture and the way things work in their own way, which is not his, but has been working and developing for hundreds of years in a foreign country far apart from his own experience.

arrowhead - 6-7-2009 at 10:39 PM

Here's that lawsuit between BAJA DEVELOPMENTS LLC and TSD LORETO PARTNERS, S EN C. POR A. DE C.V. I don't thnk it will give the homebuyers any comfort:


Quote:

UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
DISTRICT OF ARIZONA
BAJA DEVELOPMENTS LLC, a New
York limited liability company,
Plaintiff,
vs.
TSD LORETO PARTNERS, S EN C. POR
A. DE C.V., a Mexican entity,
Defendant.
))))))))))))
No.
COMPLAINT
Plaintiff BAJA DEVELOPMENTS LLC, a New York limited liability company, hereby alleges as follows for its Complaint against TSD LORETO PARTNERS, S EN C.POR A. DE C.V., a Mexican entity.

PARTIES, JURISDICTION AND VENUE

1. BAJA DEVELOPMENTS LLC (hereafter “BAJA New York”) is a New York limited liability company that had and currently still has substantial operations in Maricopa County, Arizona. BAJA New York is registered as a foreign limited liability company with the Arizona Corporation Commission. All members of BAJA New York are citizens of states of the United States or corporations organized under the laws of states of the United States. At certain times relevant to the Complaint, BAJA New York employed as many as 40 individuals in Maricopa County, Arizona, to provide services to the defendant on the matters forming the basis of this Complaint. BAJA New York provided management and marketing services for a real estate development owned by defendant and located in Baja, Mexico, hereafter referred to as the “Loreto Bay Development.” The Loreto Bay Development is an ecologically sound development, on the edge of the famous Loreto Bay of Baja California Sur. Loreto Bay Development was developed, engineered and constructed so as to be “sustainable,” and to follow the precepts of “New Urbanism.” In addition, BAJA New York provided financial and accounting services in Arizona, such as maintaining a general ledger, accounts receivable, accounts payable and fixed asset records; provision of billing and collection services; preparation of various types of income tax returns; preparation of financial statements; provision of tax and payroll records; provision of employee benefits; provision of legal services; provision of information technology services, infrastructure and personnel; provision of construction management and architectural design planning services; and other services – all on behalf of the defendant, as alleged below.

2. TSD LORETO PARTNERS, S EN C. POR A. DE C.V. (hereafter “Loreto Partners”) is an entity formed under Mexican law known as a sociedad en comandita por acciones and carrying on business here in Arizona. A sociedad en comandita por acciones is a juridical person under Mexican law. Loreto Partners owns certain real and other property that comprise the Loreto Bay Development. Loreto Partners’ office for the management of the Loreto Bay Development is located at Mision San Ignacio S/N, Esquina Cabot, Fraccionamiento Nopolo, 23880, Loreto Bay, Baja California Sur, Mexico. Loreto Partners marketed and sold real property that was a part of the Loreto Bay Development in Arizona, and the Loreto Bay Development and Loreto Partners are registered with the Arizona Department of Real Estate.

3. This court has subject matter jurisdiction over this dispute pursuant to 28 U.S.C. § 1332(a) because the amount in controversy exceeds $75,000.00 and because alienage jurisdiction exists: plaintiff is a New York limited liability company, all members of which are citizens of states of the United States or corporations organized under the laws of states of the United States and defendant is a foreign entity established under the laws of Mexico and recognized as a juridical person under Mexican law.

4. Loreto Partners is subject to the jurisdiction of this Court through its entering into a long term services contract negotiated by it in Maricopa County; executed by it in Maricopa, County, and which was and is being performed in Maricopa County, Arizona. The contract provides that its terms are governed by the laws of the State of Arizona. Loreto Partners marketed and sold Loreto Bay Development real property in Arizona. The long term services contract, which is the specific subject of this suit, governed the provision of an estimated $100,000,000 of services performed for Loreto Partners in Maricopa County, and that required the employment of more than 40 people in Maricopa County, for the benefit of Loreto Partners, as the party owed duties on the contract by plaintiff.

GENERAL ALLEGATIONS

5. Loreto Partners and BAJA New York entered into a contract titled the Intercompany Services Agreement (hereafter the “ISA”), as of May 10, 2004. The ISA was negotiated and executed in Maricopa County, Arizona by all three of the parties. A copy of the ISA is attached as Exhibit 1.

6. Under the terms of the ISA, BAJA New York was to provide certain sales, marketing, administrative and other services related to the Loreto Bay Development to Loreto Partners on a cost plus basis. These included financial and accounting services such as maintaining Loreto Partners’ general ledger, accounts receivable, accounts payable and fixed asset records; provision of billing and collection services; preparation of various types of income tax returns; preparation of financial statements; provision of tax and payroll records; provision of employee benefits; provision of legal services Loreto Partners needed to run its business; provision of information technology services, infrastructure and personnel; provision of construction management and architectural design planning services; and other services – all on behalf of defendant Loreto Partners.

7. BAJA New York, over the last several years, has provided such services to Loreto Partners, under the ISA, in these and other areas in amounts totaling an estimated $100,000,000.

Loreto Partners’ Breach of Contract

8. The terms of the ISA contractually obligated Loreto Partners not only to reimburse BAJA New York for the direct and indirect cost of the provision of such services, but also, pursuant to paragraph 3 of the ISA, to pay a fee of 5% of the cost of such direct and indirect services.

9. The ISA is governed by the laws of the State of Arizona.

10. Loreto Partners has not fully reimbursed BAJA New York for the cost of the provision of all the services provided Loreto Partners under the ISA. As only one example, certain individuals and entities provided emergency funding to BAJA New York so that it could provide services to Loreto Partners, which sums have not been reimbursed. A Canadian citizen named Norma Butterfield loaned BAJA New York $800,000 (Canadian), and upon information and belief, those sums were used at least in part to provide services to Loreto Partners under the ISA. Loreto Partners has not reimbursed BAJA New York for these sums. In addition, a British Columbia corporation named Fan Tan Alley Holdings, Ltd. loaned BAJA New York $200,000 (Canadian), and upon information and belief, those sums were used at least in part to provide services to Loreto Partners under the ISA. Loreto Partners has not reimbursed BAJA New York for these sums. Upon information and belief, there are other un-reimbursed expenditures that Loreto Partners is obligated to reimburse BAJA New York under the ISA. These will be identified with particularity after discovery, and by means of the accounting that plaintiff is requesting the Court to order in this action.

11. Upon information and belief, Loreto Partners has not paid any portion of the 5% fee it owes BAJA New York under the ISA.

12. BAJA New York has demanded that Loreto Partners pay the amounts owed to it on the ISA, but Loreto Partners has refused.

13. Loreto Partners has breached its contract with BAJA New York.

14. The precise sums owed to BAJA New York by Loreto Partners await more accounting information. Upon information and belief, the current amount due exceeds $7,000,000.

15. Loreto Partners is indebted to the plaintiff BAJA New York by a sum estimated to exceed $7,000,000, in an amount to be proven at trial.

16. Plaintiff BAJA New York is also entitled to its costs, and reasonable attorneys’ fees, pursuant to A.R.S. §12-341.01.

COUNT 1 -- BREACH OF CONTRACT

17. All allegations previously made in the Complaint are reasserted here as if set forth in their entirety herein.

18. Loreto Partners owes and owed plaintiff BAJA New York contractual duties under the ISA.

19. Loreto Partners has breached its contractual duties to plaintiff BAJA New York by failing to pay all the sums due and owing under the ISA, including reimbursement for the cost of services, and the 5% fee on the provision of such services, as specified by the ISA.

20. Loreto Partners’ breach of contract has damaged plaintiff BAJA New York in an amount to be proven at trial, but currently estimated to be in excess of $7,000,000.

21. Loreto Partners is indebted to plaintiff in an amount estimated to exceed $7,000,000 for breach of contract.

COUNT 2 -- ACCOUNTING

22. All allegations previously made in the Complaint are reasserted here as if set forth in their entirety herein.

23. Since August 2007, Loreto Partners has controlled the accounting functions that tracked the sums expended on the provision of services to it under the ISA. It has possession of the books and records that are relevant and necessary to know with
precision the sums it owes to plaintiff.

24. Currently BAJA New York does not have access to information about the precise dollar amount of money it spent providing services to Loreto Partners. Nor does it have accurate information about how much Loreto Partners has in fact reimbursed BAJA New York.

25. Loreto Partners should be ordered to render an accounting to BAJA New York on the use of funds that occurred in connection with the ISA, including how much was expended in the provision of services on its behalf by BAJA New York; how much Loreto Partners has reimbursed BAJA New York for such services; and how much, if any, it has paid for the 5% fee that is contractually due on all such sums.

WHEREFORE, Plaintiff prays for judgment against defendant Loreto Partners as
follows:
A. For compensatory damages in an amount to be proven at trial;

B. For an order that Loreto Partners render an accounting to plaintiff on the use of funds relating to the ISA, and its payments under that contract.

C. For costs incurred in this action;

D. For reasonable attorneys’ fees in bringing and prosecuting this action; and

E. For such other and further relief as the Court deems just and proper.

BAJA NEW YORK HEREBY DEMANDS A TRIAL BY JURY.
DATED this 13th day of April 2009.
LEWIS AND ROCA LLP
By /s/ George L. Paul
George L. Paul
Thomas J. Morgan
Attorneys for Plaintiff


MikeLikeBaja - 6-7-2009 at 10:42 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Loretana
Mike,
The Puerto Escondido that DK is referring to is a natural port south of Loreto that has been a well known "hurricane hole" for many years.
An ambitious port development that FONATUR started back in the 70's has been sputtering and fizzling out down there for years.

But hey man, I surfed Zipolite (near Puerto Escondido, Oaxaca) back in my hippy days in 1973. Wild!:dudette:



thanks so much for the update. Oaxaca is a great great place

redhilltown - 6-7-2009 at 11:27 PM

sad situation and I wonder if it is just the beginning. I don't know nuttin about real estate laws and who is right or wrong but when I see the hideous over building from TJ to Ensenada and around San Felipe I just can't help thinking: where in the HELL are they going to get all the water for these developments?

CaboRon - 6-8-2009 at 05:46 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Don Alley
Quote:
Originally posted by k-rico
So Americans scammed other Americans and the Mexicans will be seen as the evil doers.


Well, yes, but remember, FONATUR was in on this from the beginning, and there were Mexican contractors involved. Did they scam the developers? I'm not saying.:lol:


This keeps happening over and over ....



[Edited on 6-8-2009 by CaboRon]

bajajudy - 6-8-2009 at 06:34 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by CaboRon
[

And why is it that mexicans seem to think that this is all a game anyway.....


I dont know Ron
Ask your fellow American, Bernie Madoff!
OH he isnt Mexican is he!

mtgoat666 - 6-8-2009 at 06:37 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by CaboRon
Quote:
Originally posted by Don Alley
Quote:
Originally posted by k-rico
So Americans scammed other Americans and the Mexicans will be seen as the evil doers.


Well, yes, but remember, FONATUR was in on this from the beginning, and there were Mexican contractors involved. Did they scam the developers? I'm not saying.:lol:


This keeps happening over and over ....

[Edited on 6-8-2009 by CaboRon]


None of the Loreto Bay buyers hang out here with us trailer trash,... wondering why? Tis a funny development, from looks of starwood website appears to be a bunch of naive dotcom diletatant buyers that bought into and eco resort and did their due diligence wearing rose colored reading glasses.

The Loreto Bay buyers should have come here and listened to the crusty old trailer trash like Caboron :lol:

Sounds like a typical real estate development --- was primarily self-financing development through sales, and when the great american depression eliminated the flow of gringo buyers, the wheels came off and now we got BK.

Packoderm - 6-8-2009 at 07:24 AM

If this turns out to where construction stops and the homeowners live in a partially completed development, then I'll say that Cabo Ron is wrong. However, if they're kicked out, then it would appear to be essentially a lawless country where people should invest no more than they are prepared to lose outright, and the society as a whole should learn to live with less than what would be possible with a system of laws. Nothing seems safe.

At the expense of the Mexican people and expatriates, the above scenario is the lawless, adventurous sort of nonsense that I love about Mexico and why I keep coming back.

tripledigitken - 6-8-2009 at 08:05 AM

Reading the suit, a question come to mind?

Where did the $100,000,000 go? Could have financed power plant, desal, hospital, fire............................

Yet it seems that a significant percentage of the construction costs where financed by the gringo owner's deposits.

So the majority of the $100,000,000 seems like it didn't stick in Loreto, surprize.

Ken

arrowhead - 6-8-2009 at 08:33 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by bajajudy
I dont know Ron
Ask your fellow American, Bernie Madoff!
OH he isnt Mexican is he!


Well, if you are trying to draw a moral equivalency between Madoff and Loreto Bay, I think your thesis falls short. What Bernie Madoff did was illegal under the laws of the US. He was tried, convicted and is now in jail. As near as I can tell, Loreto Bay did nothing illegal under Mexican laws. Watch. Nobody is going to go to be charged, nobody is going to jail.

The real estate disclosure laws and requirements to escrow buyers deposits laws in virtually every state in the US would have prevented the losses you are going to see in Loreto Bay. The primary problem is Mexico's extremely weak consumer protection laws. This is how the Trump Baja shysters made their money too.

As a comparison, there is a huge condo project in San Diego next to the ball park. It was sold in 2004, at the height of the real estate boom. The developer took buyers' deposits and the contract prices were way over market by the time the project was completed in 2009. The contract had a clause that said the condo's had to be completed by a certain date. The developer missed the completion date. Every single buyer had, or will have, the deposits returned from escrow and be released from the purchase contract. No buyer lost a penny.

That is the difference between a country with strong laws to protect consumers and Mexico.

Who Madoff with the money?

bajajudy - 6-8-2009 at 08:52 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by arrowhead
Quote:
Originally posted by bajajudy
I dont know Ron
Ask your fellow American, Bernie Madoff!
OH he isnt Mexican is he!


Well, if you are trying to draw a moral equivalency between Madoff and Loreto Bay, I think your thesis falls short.


My thesis, as you call it, was that Ron says Mexicans think it is a game. So do Americans think Bernie is a.....what. I just really get annoyed with generalizations.
How can you blame the Mexicans(not to mention the fact that I saw no MEXICAN names in that lawsuit) for some people's sad mistakes? It happens all over the world....

I am sorry for these people's losses and also sorry for high jacking this important thread.

CaboRon - 6-8-2009 at 09:01 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by arrowhead
Quote:
Originally posted by bajajudy
I dont know Ron
Ask your fellow American, Bernie Madoff!
OH he isnt Mexican is he!


Well, if you are trying to draw a moral equivalency between Madoff and Loreto Bay, I think your thesis falls short. What Bernie Madoff did was illegal under the laws of the US. He was tried, convicted and is now in jail. As near as I can tell, Loreto Bay did nothing illegal under Mexican laws. Watch. Nobody is going to go to be charged, nobody is going to jail.

The real estate disclosure laws and requirements to escrow buyers deposits laws in virtually every state in the US would have prevented the losses you are going to see in Loreto Bay. The primary problem is Mexico's extremely weak consumer protection laws. This is how the Trump Baja shysters made their money too.

As a comparison, there is a huge condo project in San Diego next to the ball park. It was sold in 2004, at the height of the real estate boom. The developer took buyers' deposits and the contract prices were way over market by the time the project was completed in 2009. The contract had a clause that said the condo's had to be completed by a certain date. The developer missed the completion date. Every single buyer had, or will have, the deposits returned from escrow and be released from the purchase contract. No buyer lost a penny.

That is the difference between a country with strong laws to protect consumers and Mexico.


And that IS the difference , when you move to mexico you give up most of your consumer rights .....

k-rico - 6-8-2009 at 09:40 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by CaboRon

And that IS the difference , when you move to mexico you give up most of your consumer rights .....


Yes Ron, it's true, American consumer protection laws are not enforced in Mexico.

DUH!

Glad you're SLOWLY figuring things out.

rpleger - 6-8-2009 at 09:52 AM

What a sad, sad story....we all saw it coming but that does not help the victims.

Loretana - 6-8-2009 at 10:22 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by tripledigitken
Reading the suit, a question come to mind?

Where did the $100,000,000 go? Could have financed power plant, desal, hospital, fire............................

Yet it seems that a significant percentage of the construction costs where financed by the gringo owner's deposits.

So the majority of the $100,000,000 seems like it didn't stick in Loreto, surprize.

Ken



This is why Butterfield and Grogan own several gorgeous beachfront homes and at least 8 lots between them.

A little of the dough stayed in Loreto. At least the Municipal Government has gotten some infrastructure straightened out, and the Malecon is kept clean.

vandenberg - 6-8-2009 at 03:28 PM

Small update,
I was told yesterday that the golfcourse wouldn't cease operations immediately, but stay open for a few more weeks.
Apparently they changed their minds overnight. All the tee markers, flags and course cart direction signs were removed this morning. I know quite a few folks keep their clubs at the course. I picked mine up yesterday, just in case.
I remember form past experience that lots of stuff, even golfcarts, disappeared from the clubhouse when Fonatur was running it. So, to whoever have their equipment stored on the course, better retrieve it pronto.
When you get there tomorrow, let us know what story they're coming up with on this sudden closure.

David K - 6-8-2009 at 03:33 PM

Perhaps I missed it, but I recall that the development company was Canadian? Did that change, or is the term 'gringo' used above to mean any non-Mexican and not just American?

Cypress - 6-8-2009 at 03:36 PM

Goats will be grazing on the golf course. Golf clubs will be called "goat knockers".:yes: Golf carts=goat carts.:tumble:

CaboRon - 6-8-2009 at 04:03 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by k-rico
Quote:
Originally posted by CaboRon

And that IS the difference , when you move to mexico you give up most of your consumer rights .....


Yes Ron, it's true, American consumer protection laws are not enforced in Mexico.

DUH!

Glad you're SLOWLY figuring things out.


I figured this out while living in mexico ....

And I get slammed everytime I bring it up ....

Seems the real estate a-holes in mexico do not want the truth to come out...

And those with a business interest in mexico (BJ comes to mind) want to cover the truth up .....

Remember, do not buy in mexico, do not invest in mexico ....

Bajaboy - 6-8-2009 at 04:07 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by CaboRon
Quote:
Originally posted by k-rico
Quote:
Originally posted by CaboRon

And that IS the difference , when you move to mexico you give up most of your consumer rights .....


Yes Ron, it's true, American consumer protection laws are not enforced in Mexico.

DUH!

Glad you're SLOWLY figuring things out.


I figured this out while living in mexico ....

And I get slammed everytime I bring it up ....

Seems the real estate a-holes in mexico do not want the truth to come out...

And those with a business interest in mexico (BJ comes to mind) want to cover the truth up .....

Remember, do not buy in mexico, do not invest in mexico ....


LasVegasRonnie-

Why would US consumer laws apply in Mexico:?: Guess what, neither do German consumer laws....duh?

mtgoat666 - 6-8-2009 at 04:09 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by vandenberg
Small update,
I was told yesterday that the golfcourse wouldn't cease operations immediately, but stay open for a few more weeks.


well, it may take a week or 2 for the grass to die after they turn off water. in 3 or 4 weeks it should be a dust bowl. some enterprising operator should be able to milk a week or 2 of greens fees out of the last remannts of grass

capt. mike - 6-8-2009 at 04:09 PM

maybe they'll bring back EDEN resort.......nekked girls always makes money for a property...right Skeeter?!:lol::lol:

movinguy - 6-8-2009 at 04:17 PM

Quote:
None of the Loreto Bay buyers hang out here with us trailer trash,... wondering why? Tis a funny development, from looks of starwood website appears to be a bunch of naive dotcom diletatant buyers that bought into and eco resort and did their due diligence wearing rose colored reading glasses.


And I bet they were going to bring their boats across on the Escalera Nautica . . . :spingrin:

CaboRon - 6-8-2009 at 05:22 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bajaboy
Quote:
Originally posted by CaboRon
Quote:
Originally posted by k-rico
Quote:
Originally posted by CaboRon

And that IS the difference , when you move to mexico you give up most of your consumer rights .....


Yes Ron, it's true, American consumer protection laws are not enforced in Mexico.

DUH!

Glad you're SLOWLY figuring things out.


I figured this out while living in mexico ....

And I get slammed everytime I bring it up ....

Seems the real estate a-holes in mexico do not want the truth to come out...

And those with a business interest in mexico (BJ comes to mind) want to cover the truth up .....

Remember, do not buy in mexico, do not invest in mexico ....


LasVegasRonnie-

Why would US consumer laws apply in Mexico:?: Guess what, neither do German consumer laws....duh?


My point exactly ....

Do not buy .... Do not invest in this fourth world dirt hole ...

Crusoe - 6-8-2009 at 05:28 PM

You can only feel sorry for the poor folks that were so naive that bought into this. However, this exact same scam has been going on in Mexico since the early 1960's on the mainland that I am personaly aware of. First encountered near Manzanillo, then Mazatlan in the 70's and lots of stories around Vallarta in the 80's of people buying condos and uncompleted houses, which the same ones were sold to 10 other owners, only for them to return to what they thought was their dream retirement, to find out they had been swindeled. Then go pay a crooked Mex. lawyer and give that person another few thousand and be swindeled again. Traveling around the Mexican mainland and Baja, the amount of stories one hears is mind bogeling. This won't be the last.Too bad! The gringo consumer has no rights period. ++C++

vandenberg - 6-8-2009 at 05:31 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by CaboRon
Do not buy .... Do not invest in this fourth world dirt hole ...


What makes you think that your asinine post actually would influence anybody.
Sound like the rantings of a lunatic.

JESSE - 6-8-2009 at 06:11 PM

Would i buy property in Brazil, or anywhere else for that matter, using Mexico´s real estate laws as a reference point? NO!!!

I AM BUYING LAND IN BRAZIL!!!!! NOT MEXICO!!!!

Bielefeld - 6-8-2009 at 10:59 PM

So, how did the workers take it beeing fired?? Any news on that?
How is the situation in the local comunity with lots of unemployed guys???

I wouldn't count the homeowners out yet.

rogerj1 - 6-8-2009 at 11:09 PM

There's lots they can do to make something good come out of this mess. It may not be the dream they bought into but it's still a house in Loreto. The names of responsible home builders familiar with the project are being referred out to people that have partially constructed homes. Here's a quote posted by one of the administrators:

"The legal status of the Condominium Regimes is clearly defined in the Rules & Regulations and exists whether or not any specific owner/developer is in place or in fact even in absence of an ownership entity."

I've read about a number of timeshare developments in both the US and Mexico where the timeshare owners banded together to take over poorly developed properties.

I think there's going to be great opportunities created here for both locals who want work and for potential buyers. Without having to go through Loreto Bay to make sales, prices will reflect what's going on and there should be some great deals.

airmech - 6-8-2009 at 11:15 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by rogerj1
I think there's going to be great opportunities created here for both locals who want work

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

camador - 6-9-2009 at 08:23 AM

The Inn at Loreto Bay Hotel Closed that was announced at the Loreto news website: http://www.radarpolitico.com/2009/06/09/cierra-hotel-inn-at-...

cajhawk - 6-9-2009 at 08:56 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by comitan
Many large developments are under a master Fido, its just the way its done. The only reason I know this is because we had friends in Cabo that the contractor had a Master Fido for the development and went under before it was completed, the owners had to buy back their homes from the bank at a negotiated price.


I have helped market several developments in Mexico and am a part owner in a Loreto Bay home. The individual homesites were sold to the homeowners and put into a fideicomiso. The people then signed a construction contract with Loreto Bay Company to build their home. The condo regimes are separate as well to keep up the common facilities.

The bigger issue is the infrastructure for the second phase (Agua Viva) which is the current building area. The Founders Village which is phase 1 is not complete, but I believe all of the basic infrastructure is in. Even if this development were run by the best developers (which it was not), the current economic situation wouldn't make it viable. Citigroup should be able to find a buyer in time and is probably going to get a better price for the asset once the liabilities of the current company go away. It won't be the grand scheme envisioned, but it will still be a wonderful place to live IMHO.

David K - 6-9-2009 at 09:05 AM

"It won't be the grand scheme envisioned, but it will still be a wonderful place to live IMHO"

You sir are an optimist! I hope you're right!

wilderone - 6-9-2009 at 10:12 AM

In reply to Pam's forum remark, the LB's sustainability czar had this to say:
David Veniot says:
June 7, 2009 at 2:47 pm
Well said Bill. Many of these homeowners bought into a vision. It was sincere. It was the right vision…imagine the place today in the hands of the typical Cabo developer. I shudder to think. The homeowners trusted this vision and the business people behind it. A convoluted cascade of events took place to cause the eventual downfall of the project, which is by no means the fault of the homeowners or any one person. casting blame is easy. Finding solutions and staying strong during tough times is not. I am glad you are still there."

SO TRUE - THEY BOUGHT A F__ING VISION - nothing more because the reality is that it was NEVER possible or even sensible. A "cascade of events" ??? Mismanaged funds; not doing proper studies; not getting permits; not having the necessary skill and intelligence to acquire the building materials; not budgeting; not planning - just "believe in the vision" [and send us a check]. Stay tough? Pretty easy to say when your $250,000 isn't on the line, isn't it?
Venoit - you and the rest of that ragtag motley group calling yourself developers are nothing but a bunch of charlatans. You can go back to Alaska and run your puppet shows - like you ever had any capability in the first place for that job.
The results quite clearly speak for themselves. You're only trying to distance yourself from the cause of the failures, for which you are partially responsible.

wilderone - 6-9-2009 at 10:25 AM

The legal status of the Condominium Regimes is clearly defined in the Rules & Regulations and exists whether or not any specific owner/developer is in place or in fact even in absence of an ownership entity."


That only means they have to keep paying their homeowner dues.

wilderone - 6-9-2009 at 10:30 AM

"Citigroup should be able to find a buyer in time and is probably going to get a better price for the asset once the liabilities of the current company go away."

In your dreams. Clue - it's been on the market for 7 months. Citibank has put in its capital, borrowed millions and maybe finished 10 more homes for all that. HOW ARE THE LIABILITIES GOING TO "GO AWAY"?????????
I guess the way that 5 mile aquaduct that you're going to kayak down some day is going to get done.
After all, IT'S ONLY A VISION. And that's what you all were told

 Pages:  1