BajaNomad - Lacey Act revisions

Lacey Act revisions

Don Alley - 6-9-2009 at 02:04 PM

Revisions to the Lacey act were approved last year and some are beginning to go into effect.

Essentially, the revisions will require declaring any plants or plant products coming into the US. There are different dates of implementation for different classes of products.

For example: As of July 1, all musical instruments must be declared, and accompanied by an electronically filed document listing all species of wood used in their construction, the amounts of the woods, and the country of origin of each wood. Failure to do so could result in the confiscation of the instrument.

These regulations are in addition to CITES regulations...

DanO - 6-9-2009 at 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Don Alley
Revisions to the Lacey act were approved last year and some are beginning to go into effect.

Essentially, the revisions will require declaring any plants or plant products coming into the US. There are different dates of implementation for different classes of products.

For example: As of July 1, all musical instruments must be declared, and accompanied by an electronically filed document listing all species of wood used in their construction, the amounts of the woods, and the country of origin of each wood. Failure to do so could result in the confiscation of the instrument.

These regulations are in addition to CITES regulations...

Does the regulation include musical instruments brought from the U.S. into Mexico which are being returned to the U.S.?

Woooosh - 6-9-2009 at 02:43 PM

So this is a form of payback for the Mexican truckers or are there just too many musically inclined immigrants putting Mariachis out of business? I wonder how you figue out where the brass in your Tuba or the air in your Accordian came from?

SOS

[Edited on 6-9-2009 by Woooosh]

Don Alley - 6-9-2009 at 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DanO
[
Does the regulation include musical instruments brought from the U.S. into Mexico which are being returned to the U.S.?

Yes.

DanO - 6-9-2009 at 04:04 PM

So every musician who leaves the U.S. with an instrument must file a customs declaration on return? That seems absurd. I sent an email to a musical instrument industry lawyer on this, whose website indicates that as of October 2008 it was unclear whether the reg will be applied to such "re-importation" or to "personal" imports. Of course, if it does apply, my kids will be stoked that they'll never have to bring their instruments or practice when we're down south. I have no idea how we would ever be able to comply with the regulation.

mtgoat666 - 6-9-2009 at 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DanO
So every musician who leaves the U.S. with an instrument must file a customs declaration on return? That seems absurd. I sent an email to a musical instrument industry lawyer on this, whose website indicates that as of October 2008 it was unclear whether the reg will be applied to such "re-importation" or to "personal" imports. Of course, if it does apply, my kids will be stoked that they'll never have to bring their instruments or practice when we're down south. I have no idea how we would ever be able to comply with the regulation.

it applies to commercial crossings (business/importers).
your personal instruments are not on anyones radar.

a little bit of information is a dangerous thing.

BajaBruno - 6-9-2009 at 04:09 PM

This from the USDA, "LACEY ACT AMENDMENT: IMPLEMENTATION QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS" http://www.aphis.usda.gov/plant_health/lacey_act/Q&As.sh...

2. Does the declaration requirement apply to all types of entries?

At present, we will be enforcing the declaration requirement for formal entries (i.e., most commercial shipments). At this time, we are not enforcing the declaration requirement for informal entries (i.e., most personal shipments), personal importations, or mail, transportation and exportation entries, in-transit movements, carnet importations (i.e., merchandise or equipment that will be re-exported within a year), and foreign trade zone and warehouse entries. As with the different product types, we would issue a Federal Register notice before initiating any enforcement regarding such imports.

Woooosh - 6-9-2009 at 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mtgoat666

it applies to commercial crossings (business/importers).
your personal instruments are not on anyones radar.

a little bit of information is a dangerous thing.

Boy- that's for sure.

Don Alley - 6-9-2009 at 07:41 PM

Quote:

At this time, we are not enforcing the declaration requirement for informal entries (i.e., most personal shipments), personal importations...

Actually, this is not the latest news. NAMM reports that all of the declaration requirements (including commercial) have been postponed until 2010.http://www.namm.org/public-affairs/articles/usda-amends-plan...

But the root Endangered Species requirements of the CITES act remain, where there is no blanket exemption for personal instruments.

Info on traveling with guitars:

http://www.bluegrasswales.org/CITES.htmhttp://www.bluegrasswales.org/CITES.htm

And this (CFMWOODBUYER is the wood buyer for Martin Guitars)
http://theunofficialmartinguitarforum.yuku.com/reply/805359#...

There is also an excellent article in The Fretboard Journal

probably too much info for some

[Edited on 6-10-2009 by Don Alley]

Santiago - 6-9-2009 at 10:02 PM

Don: I called into question your ability to review fried chicken some time ago and to be honest, you did pretty well as I recall. This begs a similar set of queries:
1. How many guitars do you own?
2. What was your first guitar and do you still have it?
3. Was "Elecrtic Mud" the end or the beginning of a great era?
4. Did you do anything illegal (in the broadest sense of the word) in order to get your first Martin?
5. Is the first few songs after intermission where the 'star' comes out solo and does a few acoustic numbers no more than a signal to everyone to get their drink order in, come back from the bathroom or the best part of the whole damn show.
6. Did your parents ever have a serious talk to you about the music you were doing and the damage to your ears and brain?
7. Did you ever have callouses and if so, do you still have them?
8. At one point in your life were you ever able to play the entire White Album?
9. Have you steadfastly refused to ever again play the lead-in to "Stairway to Heaven" as it's just too darn pretentious?
10. Last but not least; did you ever have an amplifier with knobs that went all the way to eleven?
We await you response.

CFMWOODBUYER indeed. :coolup:

Don Alley - 6-9-2009 at 10:29 PM

1. Sadly, currently I only own four guitars, not counting the gem of my collection, which is in violation of 18 Federal Laws and 16 international treaties:

2. I no longer have my first guitar, a nylon stringed junker.

3. Both

4. No, but I did something illegal as soon as I got it.

5. The best part, unless he is Stephen Stills, then the show is ending.

6. My parents always told me everything I was doing was damaging myself.

7. Yes, and yes.

8. I could never play any song on the White Album. Not even the cliche "Blackbird."

9. Ah, the King of all Guitar Cliches. Nope, never played it.

10. No. My original dream to be a lead guitarist, modeled after Quicksilver Messenger Service's John Cippolina, never made the transition from acoustic to electric. But I did plug into a big Marshall stack at a bar in Polson, Montana, that belonged to the lead chain saw player in a Columbia Falls metal band, and played at extreme volumes while flash pots fired off around me. Highly recommended.

I just finished playing Dime for Beer, Rope Stretchin' Blues, Keep Your Lamps Trimmed and Burning, Samson and Delilah and Truckin' Little Baby. Morton, Blake, Davis, Davis and Fuller, on a 00-18 Martin. Yowsah!

Bajahowodd - 6-9-2009 at 11:35 PM

I just stuff my harmonica in the glove box under the maps, and smile. :lol:

DanO - 6-10-2009 at 07:02 AM

Thank you Bruno. My kids will be very disappointed.

:tumble:

burnrope - 6-10-2009 at 07:32 AM

Hopefully I'll be able to keep my skin flute when the new revisions take effect.

DanO - 6-10-2009 at 11:02 AM

I'm not touching that.

:wow:

I got an email back from the musical instrument industry lawyer. He concurs with Bruno's info as to personal importation, but notes that the APHIS haven't made up their minds on the re-importation issue. Glad I was able to clear that up.

Santiago - 6-10-2009 at 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Don Alley

3. Both
For once, the politically correct answer is in fact the correct one.

4. No, but I did something illegal as soon as I got it.
I'll let this one slide.

5. The best part, unless he is Stephen Stills, then the show is ending.
Funny thing you mentioning SS. I've seen him 5 or 6 times over the years after my buddy and I tried desperately to cover the entire "Buffalo Springfield: Again" album in 1969. When I moved to the Sacramento area in the early 90s I saw on the marquee of a small club a few blocks from my home: "S. Stills Tonight". I bought two tickets and got to watch a 2 hour acoustic set by Mr Stills and a base player. Very tasty, to say the least.

6. My parents always told me everything I was doing was damaging myself.
Yeah - me too. Funny thing is my kids are telling me the same thing - I'm getting it from both generations.

7. Yes, and yes.
Good on ya.

8. I could never play any song on the White Album. Not even the cliche "Blackbird."
This requires an explanation - I understand everyone figured out a version of some kind at some time in their career, but this is important.

9. Ah, the King of all Guitar Cliches. Nope, never played it.
Same here.

10. No. My original dream to be a lead guitarist, modeled after Quicksilver Messenger Service's John Cippolina, never made the transition from acoustic to electric. But I did plug into a big Marshall stack at a bar in Polson, Montana, that belonged to the lead chain saw player in a Columbia Falls metal band, and played at extreme volumes while flash pots fired off around me. Highly recommended.
Whoa - didn't expect a QMS reference. Now I'm going to have to dig out my LP and fire up the turn table and take another hit, of fresh air. What the heck ever happened to Cippolina, anyway and where the heck is Polson, MT?

I just finished playing Dime for Beer, Rope Stretchin' Blues, Keep Your Lamps Trimmed and Burning, Samson and Delilah and Truckin' Little Baby. Morton, Blake, Davis, Davis and Fuller, on a 00-18 Martin. Yowsah!

My two are a 12-string Yamaha and a Alvarez by Kazuo Yairi; both circa 1970.

By the way - love the 3 string.

Don Alley - 6-10-2009 at 12:28 PM

Santiago

The Stills reference was to a Montana concert (which I missed) where he played a short first set. Folks waited for the next set, until they figured Still had left.

re: "I'll let this one slide" OK, I did play a little slide for a while, but I don't do that, or the illegal stuff, anymore.

White Album
Explanation. I wasn't very conventional. I didn't sing then. So for the first 20 years that I played, I played no songs, just instrumental improvisations based on chords and scales.

John Cippolina has been dead for many years. His health was not good then. RIP

Polson, Montana is at the south end of Flathead Lake.

A story... After I'd learned some tunes, started singing, etc, I thought I'd try to get a gig in a local bar. I went in to a suitable venue and asked for a gig playing there. The man looks at me and says, "Where have you played before?" Ah, so I learned Aspiring Guitar Player Lesson #1: You must play Somewhere Else before playing in Big Fork, Montana.

But I found that Somewhere Else. At the Northern Lights Saloon in Polebridge, Montana. Just a short 50 mile drive from Kalispell over dusty, unpaved washboard roads, along the North Fork of the Flathead and the western boundary of Glacier National Park. Near the Canadian border. Too small to play inside, I'd set up outside on the porch, with a 100' extension cord from my PA to the Polebridge Mercantile; they had a generator. I'd play for hikers coming down out of the Park, until the ice cream started to melt. Fun, but I never made it to the Family Dog or the Fillmore.

But I have a dog named Family Dog Fillmore.

Bajahowodd - 6-10-2009 at 04:15 PM

Let's be real here. Way too much of this is tit for tat. The Teamsters lobby successfully derailed the cross border trucking thing. That's at the root of these seemingly punitive regulations.

tripledigitken - 6-10-2009 at 04:25 PM

Don,

I'm another fan of Quicksilver Messenger Service. Saw them at the Golden Bear in Huntington Beach in the late 60's. Speaking of Zepplin.........we were big fans of Jethro Tull and went to see them open for Zepp. After Tull was through playing, we walked out on Zepp. Kinda sorry today.

Ken

bajalou - 6-10-2009 at 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajahowodd
Let's be real here. Way too much of this is tit for tat. The Teamsters lobby successfully derailed the cross border trucking thing. That's at the root of these seemingly punitive regulations.

Punitive regulations?

These are US regulations on entering the US. - nothing to do with Mexico customs regs.

Don Alley - 6-10-2009 at 04:48 PM

Quote:

The Lacey Act is over 100 years old. It's provisions are national (interstate) in scope as well as international. The most recent plant product provision, discussed here, was passed and signed into law last summer, although the implementation schedule has been delayed until next year and as others have pointed out is not being enforced in respect to individuals "at the present time."

Provisions on animal products are being at least sporadically enforced, and the reports relating to guitars are that guitars shipped from Canada to the Martin and Taylor guitar factories for warranty have been detained and returned if they contain abalone inlay without a declaration. Since Canada produces some fine guitars, these US regulations are harming US manufacturing.

CITES treaty bans on instruments containing Brazilian Rosewood, Pernambuco (violin bows) etc are international in scope and have been enforced against individuals, and when they are the items are never returned.

I started this thread because, despite the APHIS-related corrections, this is a growing issue. Almost all legal international movement of guitars could become extremely difficult as early as next year, and in any case the international movement of ANY items containing natural products is subject to a world-wide movement towards greater restrictions, with little thought towards private ownership or personal property rights. These posts could belong on Baja Nomad, Canada Nomad, France Nomad, or Timbuktu Nomad. Has nothing to do with Mexico in particular.

Don Alley - 6-10-2009 at 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by tripledigitken
Don,

I'm another fan of Quicksilver Messenger Service. Saw them at the Golden Bear in Huntington Beach in the late 60's. Speaking of Zepplin.........we were big fans of Jethro Tull and went to see them open for Zepp. After Tull was through playing, we walked out on Zepp. Kinda sorry today.

Ken

I saw Quicksilver a number of times at The Family Dog, Winterland and Fillmore West. A favorite band, and a favorite guitarist (Cipollina) along with Barry Melton of Country Joe and the Fish. I saw Led Zepplin in 1969 at Winterland and loved them.

Happy Trails!

[Edited on 6-10-2009 by Don Alley]