BajaNomad

Who can guess what this tree is?

shari - 6-14-2009 at 07:57 AM

when we went to a secret beach, these blooms were everywhere...the bushe were loaded down with them...I have never seen them so full of fruit....lets see if someone knows what they are and what the fruit is used for!!!

DSC02462.JPG - 40kB

Mexitron - 6-14-2009 at 08:00 AM

Rhus lentii--Cedros Lemonade Berry....I think....

shari - 6-14-2009 at 08:33 AM

Wow...that didnt take long...these are called manzanita trees...their wood is famous for cooking over...smoking things...a very hard, long burning, aromatic wood...even better than mesquite.
these berry type fruits are really something....super acidic like limes but more concentrated...they are like sucking on a real sour candy...reminded me of a sweet tart...yet another baja wonder..

Juan's dad used to make lemonade out of them...I LOVE hearing about what the folks foraged for in the old days...before refrigeration, stores, etc, ...one my dreams is to write a story about what life was like in san roque in the good old days.



[Edited on 6-14-2009 by shari]

mtgoat666 - 6-14-2009 at 09:01 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by shari
Wow...that didnt take long...these are called manzanita trees...their wood is famous for cooking over...smoking things...a very hard, long burning, aromatic wood...even better than mesquite.
these berry type fruits are really something....super acidic like limes but super concentrated. Juan's dad used to make lemonade out of them...they are like sucking on a real sour candy...reminded me of a sweet tart...yet another baja wonder.


does appear to be a rhus. is not a true manzanita, but I could see where it could be confused with a manzanita, as leaves are sort of similar (trunks/wood of manzanita is usually quite distinct).

Mulegena - 6-14-2009 at 09:11 AM

Manzanita

I didn't know a variety grew in Baja-- now I feel even more at home, like when I see or smell pine trees I'm home!

The flowers make a really delicate, lovely tea. Pour hot water over them, add just a touch of sweetener and there you are!
Rather like jazmin tea.

About your book, Shari-- please, just start writing. I can't wait!
These intimate stories should never be forgotten.

Have you read The Oolone Way by Malcolm Margolin? (pronounced o-lone-ey) Its a delightful description of life in the San Francisco Bay Area in Alta California from the perspective of the Oolone Indian tribe that populated the region in the not-so-distant unspoiled time before civilization reached the Pacific.

pacificobob - 6-14-2009 at 09:30 AM

just bought a copy from amazon for 7 cents +shipping

shari - 6-14-2009 at 10:23 AM

thanks so much for the tip on making tea....I often cut branches when they are flowering as they last a long time in a vase.
I need to focus on interviewing the old timers who are still around who first settled in San Roque...I was inspired to do a book when an elder took me for a walk around the village and stopped at different parts and told me stories about what went on...what was where...like the chicken coop and her once lovely garden which is now sand beach...her eyes lit up with the memories.

David K - 6-14-2009 at 10:36 AM

Before you make a tea thinking that shrub is a common manzanita, check with locals... I just checked Norman Roberts book, and think Mexitron (a plant expert) is correct with the variety or family of shrubs it is part of:

Rhus lentil (common name Sugar Bush/ Lentisco) on page 104. It is part of the same family of plants as Poison Ivy and Poison Oak!

Other listings (page 102) which may be correct include:

Rhus integrifolia cedrosensis (on Isla Cedros).

Rhus integrifolia (Lemonade Berry/ Hieda)

Rhus ovata (Sugar Bush/ Lentisco): The Indians used the sticky surface of the fruits as a sugar. The berry is used to make a lemonade or sucked when one is thirsty for a refreshing taste!

[Edited on 6-14-2009 by David K]

shari - 6-14-2009 at 10:46 AM

Must be Rhus ovata then...if you can suck on the berries or make sugar out of the goo, then I would bet the flowers were safe for a tea...never had a problem picking heaps of them for wild flower arrangements.

Juan is good at warning me about nasy plants like Mal de Ojo..which is tempting to pick because of it's lovely orange bloom but really can do damage if you rub your eyes after...locals say it can cause blindness.

toneart - 6-14-2009 at 11:08 AM

The leaves do look like Manzanita. I have lots of them on my property here on the west slope of the Northern High Sierras. They do not produce berries that are large and sweet....different species. They do produce small red berries like that on Xmas Holly. I believe they are toxic, although the bear eat them. You can see the berries in their scat.

Like David K says, know your Rhus species. Maybe there is a book that would identify the different species?

Sounds like you have crossed that line and survived, Shari and Mulegena.

:cool:

Edited to correct stupididy. :yes:

[Edited on 6-14-2009 by toneart]

Bob H - 6-14-2009 at 11:54 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by toneart
Edited to correct stupididy. :yes:

[Edited on 6-14-2009 by toneart]


That's hilarious!
Bob H

jorgie - 6-14-2009 at 12:25 PM

Shari.......gotta keep asking ..WHERE IS THAT BOOK ???? one of the many you have yet to write ...

Mexitron - 6-14-2009 at 03:39 PM

Manzanita has a different meaning in Mexico than in the US I believe--that is not the Arctostaphylos, or Manzanita, that we are familiar with up north (which you can find at higher elevations in Baja).
I recognize the berries as being similar to the Rhus integrifolia that grows in SoCal and Northern Baja. And Rhus integrifolia fades out in the central coast down there where Rhus lentii takes over--but they are very close. Yes they are in the same family as Poison Oak but so are Pistachios and Mangos! But to be sure I'll have to check it out in person in a few weeks.... :yes:

shari - 6-14-2009 at 05:15 PM

ooops...Juan corrected me...it's manzanito not manzanita.
Well, the kids book is done and local aritst and my best GF will do the illustrations....we are discussing whether to self publish.

"Amazing Tales of Humans & Whales" is being fine tuned and I have started to work on the History of San Roque in earnest now...got my list of elders to interview...a list of questions and topics to cover with them. I'm really excited about this new project as is Juan. There are so many great stories about the place.

Today Juan told me a great story about how the kids used to volunteer to help unload the supply boat when it came in so they could steal Gerber baby food jars and eat em up the arroyo!! too funny...I can just see them stuffing their pockets with them.

timmurphy - 6-14-2009 at 05:21 PM

rhus of course...same family as poison oak,however non-toxic as such.everyone beat me to it,but i didn't need a book.Genus of poison oak goes back and forth between Rhus and Toxicodendron.Depends on who is the botanist of the year.

David K - 6-15-2009 at 07:23 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by shari
Must be Rhus ovata then...if you can suck on the berries or make sugar out of the goo, then I would bet the flowers were safe for a tea...never had a problem picking heaps of them for wild flower arrangements.

Juan is good at warning me about nasy plants like Mal de Ojo..which is tempting to pick because of it's lovely orange bloom but really can do damage if you rub your eyes after...locals say it can cause blindness.


Rhus ovata (Sugar Bush/ Lentisco)...

Has Juan ever heard it being called 'Lentisco' instead of just 'Manzanito'?

In your opening post, you said "....lets see if someone knows what they are and what the fruit is used for!!!"

What do the locals use the fruit for, Shari?

Thanks!

OK SHARI - CAN YOU NAME THIS ONE!

rob - 6-15-2009 at 08:26 AM

This tree is just outside Shari's brothers house in Asuncion. Here at Rancho la Aguja we have tried for 6 years to grow trees near the beach - the only things that live are palms.

This tree is right on the beach and is thriving - we love it. But what is it?

Tree-outside-beach-house.jpg - 39kB

shari - 6-15-2009 at 08:43 AM

Good question Rob...we have asked lots of people and nobody seems to know the name of it but they are very very commom and shoot up everywhere...the roots go a long way and new shoots spring up.

The tree has white blooms that turn to little red berries but the birds and insects eat them all. The bees LOVE this tree which can be unnerving as hundreds of bees hover around it...but dont bother the humans.

This thing grows like mad and I'm always trimming it....maybe here we will finally discover the name for it.

oh yeah DK...as i mentioned in the second post..the locals put a few in a glass with sugar and drank it like lemonade and sucked the berries to quench their thirst.

[Edited on 6-15-2009 by shari]

Von - 6-15-2009 at 08:47 AM

Im always sucking on those delicious seeds so sour.

There out only from late May to late august that's what ive notice since i was a kid ive been sucking those sour berries....

Usually im sucking on them while running they really open up your nasal cavity for better breathing. Has anyone ever notice that?

mtgoat666 - 6-15-2009 at 10:41 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by rob
This tree is just outside Shari's brothers house in Asuncion. Here at Rancho la Aguja we have tried for 6 years to grow trees near the beach - the only things that live are palms.

This tree is right on the beach and is thriving - we love it. But what is it?


very hard to tell from that picture, but sort of looks like brazilian pepper (schinus). post a pic of leaves if you want ID by nomad arm chair botanists.

Martyman - 6-15-2009 at 10:56 AM

Shari;
The important question is what kind of c-cktail can you make with the Cedros lemonade berry?

..... AND HERE ARE THE LEAVES OF SHARI`S TREE

rob - 6-15-2009 at 12:44 PM

Amazing, for once I have te details requested. Here are the leaves of Shari's brothers tree . . .

Leaves-of-tree.jpg - 37kB

Mexitron - 6-15-2009 at 03:21 PM

yup mtgoat is right--its a Brazilian Pepper (Schinus--same genus as California pepper) and-----ding-ding-ding-----its in the same family as the Lemonade Berry!!!

shari - 6-15-2009 at 04:38 PM

WOWIE ZOWIE...see...Nomad IS an amazing sandbox to play in...who'da thunk this tree was a primo to the Lemonade Berry....and thanks my man Marty for giving me a great idea for Arroyo Margaritas using these sour babies...dang...wish I'd have picked a big bag of em to freeze so I could serve you one when you come to visit....capital idea you gave me amigo.

jorgie - 6-15-2009 at 08:28 PM

and in that tree is a little bird ........important bird . anyone know the name of it and why it is important ???

rob - 6-16-2009 at 07:56 AM

Thanks Mexitron, Mtgoat - I will see if La Paz has a vivero with Brazilian pepper . . .

DesertDawg - 6-16-2009 at 09:46 AM

First post, no way this tree is Brazillian Pepper. They grow everywhere up her in Coachella Valley (Palm Desert area.)
Red berry on the Schinus terebinthifolius is a pepper. Same as California pepper (also Schinus var.)

My guess is this is a Syzygium paniculatum, or common name of Australian Brush Cherry or Brush Cherry (page 626 of Western Garden Book). Also known as Eugenia variety. Does not grow in our desert (too cold in winter) but grows in warmer costal regions including Hawaii.

Hmmmm . . .

rob - 6-16-2009 at 05:14 PM

Did a Google on Syzygium paniculatum and frankly, the jury is still out. I don't see the ribs on the leaves that Shari's tree shows . . .of course, I am a computer salesman, not a botanist.

Syzygium paniculatum.jpg - 36kB

redmesa - 6-17-2009 at 08:30 AM

I think you got it. The is a a lovely but controversial plant.

Brazilian pepper.jpg - 6kB

redmesa - 6-17-2009 at 08:32 AM

Additional comments: This is a high maintenance tree of questionable value in many landscape settings that frankly nursery operators can grow fast and sell quick. In Phoenix, drought tolerance makes it worthy of consideration for smaller spaces; however, it is weak wooded, prone to have an atrocious branching architecture, and reseeds with gusto. Personally, I've pulled enough seedlings from yardscapes in southern California as an entrepreneurial teenage boy to develop a true dislike for this invasive, aromatic doggy (Woof!! Woof!!) tree. Others appreciate it more for it's drought tolerance, evergreen habit, and relatively dense shade. Brazilian pepper produces irritant toxins that have an allelopathic effect inhibiting both germination and growth of plants around it.
I still love it.

Mexitron - 6-17-2009 at 11:07 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by DesertDawg
First post, no way this tree is Brazillian Pepper. They grow everywhere up her in Coachella Valley (Palm Desert area.)
Red berry on the Schinus terebinthifolius is a pepper. Same as California pepper (also Schinus var.)

My guess is this is a Syzygium paniculatum, or common name of Australian Brush Cherry or Brush Cherry (page 626 of Western Garden Book). Also known as Eugenia variety. Does not grow in our desert (too cold in winter) but grows in warmer costal regions including Hawaii.



DesertDawg--Syzigium has entire leaves--look at the foliage in the pic--it has compound leaflets--a very telling indicator of the Anacardiaceae. The Schinus terebinthifolius doesn't always have berries, either. Never 100% when just looking at photos, but I'll stick with the Brazilian Pepper ID.

ecomujeres - 6-26-2009 at 11:41 PM

I concur with Mexitron's ID. My first impression was also Schinus t. (Brazilian pepper tree). Though without other photos providing more info (see comment at end), I wouldn't bet my first born on it (maybe my second!).

Schinus has compound leaves with leaflets that often have serrated edges while Syzigium has entire (untoothed or unlobed) leaves.

Syzigium paniculatum leaf blades don't have the prominent veins like Schinus and they are smaller and more sharply pointed on both ends.

Finally, Syzigium p. is in the same family as Eucalyptus so the flowers are very distinctive and impossible to confuse with Schinus t. Knowing the flower structure of the tree in question would allow a definitive answer.

http://toptropicals.com/pics/garden/m1/bel/syzygium_panicula...

Here is a good link with photo and description of Brazilian pepper tree (Schinus t.) , a highly invasive species. It is one of those species that warm coastal areas in the US try to erradicate because it can out-compete and eventually replace native species. Being a Baja plant nut interested in the study, documentation and preservation of native plant species, I personally would never plant this species anywhere, let alone near water tables or along the coast.

http://www.sms.si.edu/irlspec/Schinus_terebinthifolius.htm

FYI: For best identification of plants, people should post photos of as many parts as possible--i.e. closeups of flowers, fruit and leaves, as well as an overall shot. Leaf shapes, color, size etc can vary based on habitat and age and really aren't the way to make a definitive ID, especially with a non-native species.

shari - 6-27-2009 at 06:43 PM

OK, here are some pics I took today of the nearly blooming flowers and the bees have come now...they love it...eat for a month or so then the monarch butterflies take over...it is the coolest thing when you step outside of the house and the tree explodes with butterflies fluttering...way cool!

It has a wonderful aroma...sure seems to be the brazilian pepper tree and as the link states, the mockingbirds love it too! they are all over town as well as their cousin with the serrated edged leaves.

bee.JPG - 50kB

vgabndo - 6-27-2009 at 08:32 PM

Manzanita...manzanita...manzanita...what is it with all you sexists? In politically correct Superior California we call it Personzanita. :lol::lol::lol:

shari - 6-27-2009 at 09:25 PM

Now to add to the confusion...there is one in bird dogs yard but it is just a baby and has the serrated leaves..maybe they lose those rough edges when they grow up...unlike some nomads:lol::lol::lol: kidding really!

Pappy Jon - 6-28-2009 at 04:56 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by shari
when we went to a secret beach, these blooms were everywhere...the bushe were loaded down with them...I have never seen them so full of fruit....lets see if someone knows what they are and what the fruit is used for!!!


Back to the Rhus ... here is a pic in flower.


[Edited on 6-28-2009 by Pappy Jon]

rhuslenti.JPG - 46kB