BajaNomad - Local Fishing Tournaments???

Local Fishing Tournaments???

DianaT - 7-18-2009 at 11:06 AM

This question is sincere and not meant to cause a flaming war, but just looking for the opinions of others. BTW, we don't really fish, so maybe our opinion does not count. :spingrin:

When there are local fishing tournaments in Baja, with good prizes we have a bit of a problem when prizes are won by gringo visitors when we know how much the cash would mean to a local fisherman.

For example, last year in BA. While Barb and Tim were with Juan when they took third place, Juan caught the winning fish so the prize stayed local---a good thing.

But second place was taken by a gringo who was really, IMHO, obnoxious---I stood next to him and his wife for a couple of minutes and all they did was complain and say that the tournament was fixed. They were quite sure the first place fish came from someone's local freezer----we both quickly avoided being anywhere near these people.

Yes, the second place people would have been obnoxious anywhere they were, but we just really would have liked to see the second place prize money go to a local.

Over the years, like I say, we don't fish so we do not participate, but we have seen this happen in other places where the prize money does not stay local.

Just curious as to the opinion of others----maybe I am missing something that would change my opinion.

[Edited on 7-18-2009 by jdtrotter]

vandenberg - 7-18-2009 at 11:16 AM

Don't tournaments usally require an entree fee, out of which the prize money is divided between winning participants ?
How many Mexican fishermen do you believe have enough funds to pay these fees, some time considerable ?
Be satisfied that at least some money goes to the locals who supply the vessels and equipment to gringos.
Plus the money those fishermen bring to the local economy. Your argument doesn't hold water.

BMG - 7-18-2009 at 11:32 AM

I too am ignorant on the ins and outs of fishing tournaments. My first reaction is that anyone who enters is entitled to a shot to win regardless of whether they are local or not.

Cheating is a different story. Seems hard for me to think that a frozen fish could win though. Did you get photos of the winning fish?

I have heard about bass fishermen catching a big fish before a tourney and caging it so they could retrieve it during the event. Don't know how many other ways there are too cheat, but my guess is there are plenty.

DianaT - 7-18-2009 at 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by vandenberg
Don't tournaments usally require an entree fee, out of which the prize money is divided between winning participants ?
How many Mexican fishermen do you believe have enough funds to pay these fees, some time considerable ?
Be satisfied that at least some money goes to the locals who supply the vessels and equipment to gringos.
Plus the money those fishermen bring to the local economy. Your argument doesn't hold water.

I should have been a little clearer, I believe. We are talking about two entirely different type of fishing tournaments. The one in BA, and I believe this is only the fourth year for this governor's cup, is a community affair. I believe the entry fee is only 50 pesos +/- and the participants are almost ALL local fishermen and others in the town who fish. We have seen others like this, and these are the type to which I was referring.

It is a community affair---all the fish are cooked for the community. There have only been about 4 or 5 tourists up to this point. It is not like the big fancy tournaments with big entry fees, swarms of tourists, and huge prizes.

I do believe the big fancy ones like in Loreto and Cabo are very different.

[Edited on 7-18-2009 by jdtrotter]

DianaT - 7-18-2009 at 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by BMG

Cheating is a different story. Seems hard for me to think that a frozen fish could win though. Did you get photos of the winning fish?

Don't know if I have that one on film, but we watched the fish come in where they were weighed and measured----the obnoxious second place people, I forgot to mention, were also barely able to stand up let alone see straight. :lol:

vandenberg - 7-18-2009 at 11:50 AM

Diane, You're fighting your own argument.
By stating that there are only a very few gringos participating, would winning by one of them be remote.
And since the catch goes to the locals, I can see only a win situation for everyone involved.

Poor sports you will find everywhere and in every sport.
Just ignore them or, if you feel up to it, tell them what you think. :biggrin:

BMG - 7-18-2009 at 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by jdtrotter

Quote:

Originally posted by BMG

Cheating is a different story. Seems hard for me to think that a frozen fish could win though. Did you get photos of the winning fish?

With that camera and telephoto lens you haul around, I'm surprised you don't have photos of the fish being caught with it's eyes staring back.

Sounds to me like, even though a small tournament, it's open to all comers. Therefore, anyone should have a chance to win. Good thing I wasn't there 'cause I would have won for sure and just one of the fish I catch would be plenty to feed the entire town.

As for being able to stand, I've had to use a wall on occasion for added support. And seeing straight has never been one of my strong points.

DianaT - 7-18-2009 at 12:07 PM

I am very sure that the behavior of those people really affected how I felt when they took the second place prize money---as this years tournament is approaching, I just cannot get that picture out of my mind. :barf:

You two are probably correct---if you pay to enter, and maybe as time goes on, it will draw more tourist money to the area as more tourist services develop----

And, the director of the tournament seemed quite pleased to see the first woman participant (Barb)---he was very friendly and encouraging.

OK, I change my stand, but I will still cheer for the locals to go home with the money. :yes:

BMG--I didn't have that lens last year, but look out, this year I am going for the EYES! Now if I can just get them to hold the tournament when the light is not so bright. :lol:

Thanks for the feedback--

Diane

[Edited on 7-18-2009 by jdtrotter]

vandenberg - 7-18-2009 at 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BMG
Don't know how many other ways there are too cheat, but my guess is there are plenty.

I used to run trips out of my establishment in Sacramento. On one of those salmom trips the "winner takes all" pot had a buddy of mine and another participant at about a dead heat for largest fish. Somehow I manages to insert 6 to7 1lb lead weights into the gullet of my buddy's with the rod butt.
Won the prize and spend the money (considerable) at the local Bodega Bay saloon. The look at the woman" face at the cleaning station, was priceless, when all that lead rolled out off that fish when she opened it up.
Now I'm waiting for my punishment for all those "mal"things I 've done in my life. :no:

Cypress - 7-18-2009 at 12:17 PM

Tournaments? See "Fishing Rodeos" down along the MS coast. Big time events. Been going on for many years. Cheaters? Wouldn't even think about it. They'll nail 'em. :biggrin:

BornFisher - 7-18-2009 at 12:41 PM

Every tournament has controversies and many have cheats. I`ve fished 5 out of la Salina and have seen problems in them all. From no "Blue Tailed Tuna", to changing the weigh in time, to rumors of Ensenada fish market fish, to fish placed in the wrong category, to endless arguments over rules. But as far as who should win, put your money up and play.
BTW my money would be on the locals!!!

msteve1014 - 7-18-2009 at 01:53 PM

If they only wanted locals, or Mexican citizens to enter, they would make that one of the rules. I think they know that it draws people and money into the areas that hold these contests, and that is part of the plan.

backninedan - 7-18-2009 at 01:57 PM

I was at the Loreto marina yesterday and observed several near punch outs at the ramp. Tempers always seem to get short at tourny time. That and the consumption of vast quantities of cerveza by many entrants, makes for great free entertainment.

I have fished in several tournies here and find that they are just not my cup of tea. Too much running at max speed hunting fish. I would much rather take my time and enjoy the trip...but then thats just my opinion and we all know what opinions are worth.

shari - 7-18-2009 at 01:59 PM

I happen to know that all the money that Juan and Barb won got spent in very short order in the community...so the prize money eventually got to the locals anyway!!! :yes:

Everyone...except the 2nd prize guys...were happy to see Barb smiling from ear to ear.

DianaT - 7-18-2009 at 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BornFisher
Every tournament has controversies .... to changing the weigh in time,

BTW my money would be on the locals!!!

You mean the time they end is not supposed to be flexible?? :lol:

Ah well, this is what we really enjoy at the fishing tournaments.

Things are changing and I am sure with the new road, etc., more and more tourists will come and probably participate---my money will also remain with the locals. :yes:

rts551 - 7-18-2009 at 02:40 PM

Diane
Last year in the La Bocana tournament Two first place prizes (YT and Dorado) were won by a Gringo... Damn if he didn't give the whole 30,000 Pesos to the boat captain.

Not everyone is obnoxious.

DianaT - 7-18-2009 at 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by rts551
Diane
Last year in the La Bocana tournament Two first place prizes (YT and Dorado) were won by a Gringo... Damn if he didn't give the whole 30,000 Pesos to the boat captain.

Not everyone is obnoxious.

Thanks Ralph

That is a good thing--- well, I assume the boat captain was a local. :lol:

Osprey - 7-18-2009 at 03:13 PM

As a pure act of charity I stay out of all the small tourneys that local Mexicans could win. I mean, I'm just saying.....

Cypress - 7-18-2009 at 03:26 PM

Osprey, :lol:

Pescador - 7-18-2009 at 04:00 PM

Diane, I wrote about this last year when the Copa Gobernador was being held in Loreto. The Copa tournaments were developed by Agundez for economic stimulation in small communities in Baja California Sur. Agundez thought that it would be a great idea for social interaction if the tourists and gringos were included and everyone would be able to communicate and get along well and friendships and understanding would develop. Actually that is not quite the case. I won several of these in Santa Rosalia and San Bruno and because I was able to communicate with the locals I soon learned that the prevailing attitude was that things were a little unfair when a guy in a panga with a handline was competing with a guy who had a $40-50K boat with all the electronics needed to find locations and fish and do it rapidly and quickly. Since they were forced into a competition where there was a lot of inequality to begin with, several people that I know started to figure it was OK to bring in fish from other areas and "thaw out" fish that had been caught at another time. Even though the tournament director was high up in the Bisbee Black and Blue tournaments, he took a rather lackadaisical approach to the whole thing and we found people starting the day before, boats leaving way before the starting time, boats with too many people on board, illegal equipment, handing off fish between boats, and numerous other infractions that would have never been tolerated in actual tourney conditions.
I still decided to compete but refused to do anything but act as a deckhand for my Mexican friends and if they won they were told that I was not going to accept any part of the winnings and that they would receive 100% . My ego would like to go out and win everyone of these things and a good friend and I had planned on entering every tournament up and down the peninsula, but my common sense won out and I now use it more of a charity event for fishing friends who can more adequately use the winnings.
The really good part of the tournaments is where the kids and others who fish from shore. They really get into it and since it is pretty much below the dignity of the gringos witht the big boats, it is a pretty fair competition, especially among the younger anglers for whom a $100 dollar prize goes a long ways to instant stardom.
I have also heard the whining and complaining from some of the gringo contestants who whine about being knocked out of their place by a late entry or some other thing and because they don't understand anything of what is going on, tend to let their blatant racism show through their interactions and blame it on "those guys who don't play fair".
One year we had a split tournament with one division going to yellowtail and the other division going to squid. We actually had the winning squid but since the prize was a new panga and motor, we felt like we were stealing from the person in second place who really needed the boat. I get a good feeling when I see this boat on the water so many years later and know that the person has been able to feed his family and take care of things financially by winning that boat, whereas it would have been a different situation for me.
Hopefully, this will be the last year for these tournaments, I think that they have created more problems that they have helped. But that usually seems to be the case where government steps in to do something and things end up in an entirely different place due to the lack of foresight in the initial planning.

Cypress - 7-18-2009 at 04:28 PM

Pescador, You're a master fisherman. You have an advantage based on, if nothing else, experience and skill. And you have my respect on both counts.

DianaT - 7-18-2009 at 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pescador
Hopefully, this will be the last year for these tournaments, I think that they have created more problems that they have helped.

Thanks and I appreciate your take on this and your experience. I may have read it before, but I don't always remember---happens more these days. :saint:

I know you said it was about bringing locals and tourists together, but maybe, just maybe if they had been for just the locals, they might have worked differently---don't know. Sounds like lots of problems in your area.

Since it has been almost strictly a local affair, so far, in BA, I hope if they do end, they are replaced by something. It is an event that is very much enjoyed by many in the community---old and young alike.

But it is a good time also to play politics. :yes:

Thanks again.

flyfishinPam - 7-18-2009 at 04:38 PM

Pescador pretty much stated my personal sentiments. Originally these governor's cup tournaments were meant for the locals but they have morphed into something else. a good portion of the local pangueros have lost interest in it here for reasons previously stated.

I think a better way to stimulate the tourist economy is to reduce the tax rates we pay significantly and make doing business easier than it is now. Obviously I´ll never be a politico because that's too damned practical a solution.

rts551 - 7-18-2009 at 06:49 PM

It must be the size of the community. In Abreojos and La Bocana. these are big social events... Usually coordinated with some other occasion. Prizes are substantial (15000 pesos for a first place) and sponsored by the government, coop, Tecate etc. Because of our location, the invasion of outsiders is small... although this minority can make fools of themselves. But all in all, I hope they continue.

rts551 - 7-18-2009 at 06:51 PM

Oh and for the most vocal on this board, the next tournament is in 2051. forgot which month

DianaT - 7-18-2009 at 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by rts551
It must be the size of the community. In Abreojos and La Bocana. these are big social events... Usually coordinated with some other occasion. Prizes are substantial (15000 pesos for a first place) and sponsored by the government, coop, Tecate etc. Because of our location, the invasion of outsiders is small... although this minority can make fools of themselves. But all in all, I hope they continue.

Same has been true for Bahia Asuncion----we hope it remains so. We just fear that what we saw last year was fortelling the future

DianaT - 7-18-2009 at 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by rts551
Oh and for the most vocal on this board, the next tournament is in 2051. forgot which month

It should be a big one with all the people we are sending your way. Abreojos. Seriously folks, Abreojos is a much better place for you to participate in a fishing tournament---just a much better place. :yes:

DianaT - 7-18-2009 at 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by flyfishinPam
Pescador pretty much stated my personal sentiments. Originally these governor's cup tournaments were meant for the locals but they have morphed into something else. a good portion of the local pangueros have lost interest in it here for reasons previously stated.

It is a shame they have morphed.

Maybe there should be the big open tournaments for everyone, and these left for locals only.

rts551 - 7-18-2009 at 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jdtrotter

Quote:

Originally posted by rts551
Oh and for the most vocal on this board, the next tournament is in 2051. forgot which month

Diane you are so cute.... but pls.... Its way too windy in PA... don't mislead these people,

shari - 7-18-2009 at 07:22 PM

dianne...did you know that the guys you mention...opened up a sportsfishing business with the Verduzcos and a fishbuck style bar? guess they must have liked its here after all.

rts551 - 7-18-2009 at 07:25 PM

see... Now where is this bar located

shari - 7-18-2009 at 07:29 PM

it is quite a nice palapa on the bay side...kinda on the road out to the coop at the point...cant miss it....there is a big tall BUD LIGHT sign out front. i wonder if they will win 2nd prize again? they sure were mad when they didnt win first and third...i thought it had something to do with one boat couldnt win more than one prize. they kept telling us they won 3rd too but I saw the big cheque with Barb's name on it so I just whistled and rolled my eyes....yeah whatever.

DianaT - 7-18-2009 at 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by shari
dianne...did you know that the guys you mention...opened up a sportsfishing business with the Verduzcos and a fishbuck style bar? guess they must have liked its here after all.

Shari,
You know very well that I am aware that they hooked up with Paco Verduzco, one we have never met, and opened the Palapa Bar, the one you said had lots of problems the night it opened---I was not surprised at that. There are 11 Verduzcos in that one generation, some of them are our friends, but we do not know all of them and they do not always act as one.

It still does not change my sentiments about these type of tournaments. I still would prefer to see the winnings go to the locals, including you and Juan.

Now, a fishbuck style bar? Can you define that? Fishbuck has done a great job of slandering local Bahia Asuncion residents, but I am not sure what a fishbuck style bar is? Please clarify.

Thanks
Diane

[Edited on 7-20-2009 by jdtrotter]

shari - 7-18-2009 at 08:02 PM

actually dianne, I didnt know very well that you were aware of that...sorry...also some things are best left up to the imagination...wouldnt want to slander anyone or anyplace.

DianaT - 7-18-2009 at 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by shari
actually dianne, I didnt know very well that you were aware of that...sorry...also some things are best left up to the imagination...wouldnt want to slander anyone or anyplace.

Guess you do not remember our conversations about this---no problem.

jimgrms - 7-19-2009 at 06:21 AM

I am thinking the Tourist that go to mexico to fish, fish and not worry about the tournements
and if you dosign up and happen to win divide the money into thirds 1/3 for the winner 1/3 for the guide and 1/3 for a local charity , that is a win win win deal, after all the money is not gonna make or break any of us and makes for a lot of good will jmho i am talking about the local tournes not the megabuck cabo style shows

Don Alley - 7-19-2009 at 08:31 AM

I usually avoid the Loreto tournaments, but a neighbor has talked me into financing a panga and captain for a couple of the Governor's Cup tourneys. I have some pics of one that I didn't get out on. The unique thing, and best thing, about the Governors Cup was the shore fishing divisions. That made them the most inclusive and festive of the Loreto tournaments. I don't think Loreto needs another gringo tournament, but one for the kids and shore fishers would be great.

Alan - 7-19-2009 at 09:09 AM

The goals of tournaments vary as much as the people who fish in them. JD - I think it is great that you root for the locals but to say only locals could win may defeat the goal of that specific tournament. For example, if it was to boost tourism and improve the local economy, excluding non-locals would defeat the purpose.

Thinking that electronics give an unfair advantage isn't really accurate. It isn't simply a matter of turning on your black boxes and driving straight to the fish to begin your harvest. In many cases it simply helps to level the playing field when you are competing against generations of local knowledge.

Properly organized tournaments establish categories in order to test apples to apples.

DianaT - 7-19-2009 at 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Alan
The goals of tournaments vary as much as the people who fish in them. JD -

That I am seeing quite clearly from what all has been posted, and I do appreciate hearing the different thoughts and opinions. Even the same tournaments are very different in different areas.

Don,
I agree that the shore fishing is great, especially for the kids---love your pix.

I don't think much else that is such a great activity, would get them up this early.

Diane

bill erhardt - 7-19-2009 at 09:58 AM

Don........That's a great shot of the boats heading out after the starting gun. Soledad must be in there someplace. Last week I asked Clecerio, who puts on the Governor's Cup torneos, if there was to be one in Loreto this year, and he said it is just a matter of the mayor asking the governor, but as yet he has not........

Don Alley - 7-19-2009 at 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by bill erhardt
Don........That's a great shot of the boats heading out after the starting gun. Soledad must be in there someplace. Last week I asked Clecerio, who puts on the Governor's Cup torneos, if there was to be one in Loreto this year, and he said it is just a matter of the mayor asking the governor, but as yet he has not........

Interesting that the mayor hasn't asked. Seeing as how his wife won a pile of cash for DIF when she took first place last year. :biggrin:

Cypress - 7-19-2009 at 01:52 PM

Tournaments. Gosh, It's competition fishing. :biggrin:

Maybe they ought to give plus or minus points, depending upon your race. Affirmative action fishing tournaments. :lol:

ncampion - 7-19-2009 at 05:08 PM

Quote:

Don't know this for absolute fact, but I understand that the mayor and the governor are on opposite sides of the political fence and so the governor's cup may not come to Loreto.

Don Alley - 7-19-2009 at 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ncampion

Don't know this for absolute fact, but I understand that the mayor and the governor are on opposite sides of the political fence and so the governor's cup may not come to Loreto.

Nope. Yuan Yee is a protege of Agundez. Both PRD. Very close political allies.

Pescador - 7-20-2009 at 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cypress
Tournaments. Gosh, It's competition fishing. :biggrin:

Maybe they ought to give plus or minus points, depending upon your race. Affirmative action fishing tournaments. :lol:

In a normal competition, everyone pays an entry fee, or has sponsors who pay into the prize money, and most of the winnings go to the winners. The Copa Gobernador Tournaments are different in that the Government put up all of the prize money and the sponsors did things like meals, t-shirts, and extras.
While I love to take home a pile of cash from everyone who enters in normal tournaments, I do not feel right taking home the cash in a Copa Tournament.
So affirmative action does not describe the situation, it is more of an issue of what the money was designated for. On a normal tournament I love to take the winnings from all entrants or pay my part and have my butt handed to me in a sling.

flyfishinPam - 7-20-2009 at 09:44 AM

I see it that the Copa Gobernador tournaments were meant to be for morale of the guys working in the tourism and local commercial fishing industry. So maybe something meant for morale in a sense of the military or a group working on a project may be understood by some here? If you follow me this is what the Copa tournaments were originally all about...according to the captains (not according to me). The money is coming from a state fund that is to be returned to the fishing communities for economic stimulation. Maybe this clears things up, maybe not. Wow you guys as Asuncion got the governor to come to the tournament? He's not been to one of ours so far.

shari - 7-20-2009 at 10:00 AM

That's right Pam...Sr.Agundez...our beloved governor comes here whenever he has the chance...rumour is he has some property here too and always love his visits...even dances with the ladies and does alot of kissing!!! I believe that the first prize money is matched by the government and donated to a worthy cause in the communities.

I heard that this years cause will be to build a local funerario which will be welcome here. Apart from that...lots of people come here from "the outside" like guerrero negro ensenada, villages all around here to participate in the tournament and other fiesta competitions.
Last year one of our clients teamed up with sirena's novio to win the kayak race and donated the case of tecate to all of us spectators partying on the beach....a very worthy local cause :lol:

The village is getting excited about the fiestas and there have been lots of "warm up" activities like horse races, beach events too.

comitan - 7-20-2009 at 10:01 AM

Pam

Cooler in Asuncion.

DianaT - 7-20-2009 at 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by flyfishinPam
Wow you guys as Asuncion got the governor to come to the tournament? He's not been to one of ours so far.

Governor likes Bahia Asuncion, from what we are told.

We also hear that that governor has bought property there, but then again, we also have heard that Carlos Slim is or was buying property near by, and they there was the large European Resort people, and, and, and-----the rumors are always there. :lol:

On edit---Shari was posting as I did---gosh, those rumors get around and it is such a big town. :lol:

[Edited on 7-20-2009 by jdtrotter]

flyfishinPam - 7-20-2009 at 11:42 AM

so the gobernador dances with the ladies and does a lot of kissing? well what I know I am keeping under my hat but this explains some things. how do the husbands of the kissed ladies feel about that? mine would punch his lights out but he is originally from another state and not prd.

shari - 7-20-2009 at 12:40 PM

it's just the traditional peck on the cheek greeting so pretty acceptable...still odd for a governator to do but a crowd pleaser.

rts551 - 7-20-2009 at 12:50 PM

He also spends a lot of time in La Bocana and Punta Abreojos. Maybe the cool pacific?

Cypress - 7-20-2009 at 02:20 PM

So a simple fishing tournament turns into some complicated situation involving families, ethnics, and economics, with all sorts of undertones. What a world have we created for our children. :no:

fishbuck - 7-20-2009 at 03:55 PM

I don't like to enter tournements. My fishing is stricitly for fun.
But the couple of tournements I have entered were for charitable causes.
So if you win or don't win shouldn't matter that much. And the prizes should just be token so people aren't tempted to cheat.
It's the big prizes that can cause the problems.

tripledigitken - 7-20-2009 at 04:06 PM

"fishbuck style bar"

:lol:

Maybe worthy of a franchise. :cool:

fishbuck - 7-20-2009 at 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by tripledigitken
"fishbuck style bar"

:lol:

Maybe worthy of a franchise. :cool:

Anouncing the 1st annual "Margaritatown" fishing tournement.

1st prize is 1 free night with... :coolup:

Don Alley - 7-20-2009 at 04:38 PM

As far as I can tell any grumbling at the Loreto Governor's Cup events has been minimal and insignificant. There are few rules, and most everyone has a good time.

Now I believe it is becoming common for winners in tournaments in the States to have to pass a polygraph test to collect their winnings. No pass, no prize.

Here's another true story, that happened in Montana years ago. To boost participation, a tournament released a tagged fish in the lake. If a tournament participant caught this tagged fish, he/she wins $100,000. The way this works is the tournament buys an insurance policy. The insurance companies are glad to write these policies, and they were very common. The odds were so low of a payout that the insurance guys felt they couldn't lose. In fact, in this case the agent just pocketed the premium and never sent in the policy application. After all, it was just one fish in a big lake.

Someone caught the fish. Fortunately, the soon-to-be former insurance salesman was bonded.

I think I'll stick to fishing for fun. :biggrin: