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Ejido Land?

noproblemo2 - 7-25-2009 at 08:57 AM

Does anyone know under what circumstances Ejido could lose/have taken from them their lands?

DENNIS - 7-25-2009 at 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by noproblemo2
Does anyone know under what circumstances Ejido could lose/have taken from them their lands?

Very few, if any, circunstances could exist. The Ejidos are the Sacred Cow of Mexico. Evidence of promised land reform and all that crap.
On the other hand, it's Mexico and money talks.

toneart - 7-25-2009 at 09:48 AM

What Dennis says is true. However, in some locations an Ejido may not be entirely legitimate. They may have been awarded their land grants in more recent times through negotiation, trade or grants given to them by local politicians who fall out of power. The consequent court cases can be messy. Certainly nothing you want to be involved in. :no:

noproblemo2 - 7-25-2009 at 10:24 AM

What if one has gone rogue out of greed, been promised wealth to turn a blind eye to things going on around him, would that be reason for the provider of said funds to take land? Or does any one ejido have the "power" to do so?

toneart - 7-25-2009 at 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by noproblemo2
What if one has gone rogue out of greed, been promised wealth to turn a blind eye to things going on around him, would that be reason for the provider of said funds to take land? Or does any one ejido have the "power" to do so?

Could you please restructure your sentences? It is difficult to decipher if the ejido is the victim or the perpetrator. Who is "one"?, one member of an ejido, the whole ejido acting as one, or someone else?
Who is "provider of said funds to take land"?

noproblemo2 - 7-25-2009 at 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by toneart

Quote:

Say a sr. member of ejido taking funds from a wealthy person to turn a blind eye & sr. ejido promising mr. wealth land.

DENNIS - 7-25-2009 at 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by noproblemo2
Say a sr. member of ejido taking funds from a wealthy person to turn a blind eye & sr. ejido promising mr. wealth land.

A blind eye to what? The ejido has control of the land. If a rico wants to use the land through bribes and gifts, his hold on the land is zero. An ejido official can't transfer the land without going through proper steps...all legal. The buyer who didn't really make a legal purchase is the loser.

Anyway, you have to be more explicit. Give us some details.

DianaT - 7-25-2009 at 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Anyway, you have to be more explicit. Give us some details.

noproblemo2, I am sure there are reasons you are not being explicit, but it is beginning to sound like a giant riddle---a difficult one to figure out?????

Diane

ramuma53 - 7-25-2009 at 02:50 PM

Well Nopproblema2
I think that I understand your question.
First if you talk about a Baja Ejido, almost all are wrongly done, they were born in the 1930 era, and at that time the SRA had very few recourses so they invented the VIRTUAL EXECUTION, execution is the legal act where the lands are formally given to the Ejido and during that legal procedure, the land has to be measured notifying all the affected people and the bordering neighbors, they all have to sign the approval or disapproval but since it is extremely costly to do that for the extremely big Baja Ejidos, they just invented the virtual execution where an engineer just came from Mexico city and in a couple of hours executed several ejidos.
By Supreme Court ruling, a virtual execution equals NO execution and if an ejido does not have an execution, it does not have any land; of course they physically have it but not legally and just that fact may allow you to win against them if justice existed in Mexico.
What makes it difficult to win against an ejido is called SUPLENCIA DE LA DEFICIENCIA DE LA QUEJA and that means that the ejido can make as many mistakes as they want and the judge have to correct it and offer as much proof as they need to win, but if you make a legal mistake you are gone; they also do not have time deadlines but you do.
As a consequence, most Baja Ejidos are extremely corrupt institutions and what you are saying about making deals on the side is the rule more than the exception.
Another misconception is that now they can sell their land, NO, they can now take the land out of Ejido regime and then they can sell it.
You will find that a senior Ejido guy is more apt to be the big chief in an Ejido if he make side deals than if he is honest.
All those rules were invented when Mexico was a lot more to the left than it is today but if you try to change those rules, all the peasants in Mexico will come on top of you.
I you belong to a Baja Ejido, you have a lot of legal recourses but if you are a private proprietor, it is a dangerous endeavor to go against an ejido, very few people can do it an win but it is happening more and more every day because they created a monster that liked those rules and now are using them to steal land from private proprietors, just ask Mr. Johnson at hotel Serenidad in Mulege who has been fighting them for years.

toneart - 7-25-2009 at 03:11 PM

What Ramuma53 says is true. The Serenidad is one of the examples that stands out. And that ejido is not done yet. I am still not sure though, if he or anybody really understands Noproblema2's question.

A member of the Baja Ejido cannot sell his parcel unless the whole ejido vote their permission, collectively. But if you have handed over money and then discovered you don't have anything legally, you can say "adios" to your money. You wouldn't be the first. On the other hand, I know many wonderful people who are members of an ejido.

Ramuma53, you sound almost empathetic with Don Johnson.

irenemm - 7-25-2009 at 07:32 PM

the same happened to Ellie at the brisa del mar rv park in cabo san lucas before it happened to don johnson. ellie rented the property and turned it into something and was doing really good. when her lease was up the EJ wanted it back so they could make the money for them. long time ago back in the 80's they got the park and ellie lost i have never heard about the park since i am sure they turned it into a sh*& hole.
have not seen Ellie for many years now she would stop by in the 90's but not any more.

rhintransit - 7-26-2009 at 06:05 AM

exactly that thing happened recently in Ensenada Blanca...see previous thread. I believe it was called something like 'land grab' or such. the ejido lost to a wealth family that has had them in court for almost 20 years.

To the Best of My Understanding

OLIGUACOMOLE - 7-26-2009 at 08:36 AM

We get asked many times about the Ejido's. My wife is a Ejido member of La Purisma. It is the third largest Ejido in Mexico. For those wondering about the approximate size of this Ejido, figure from the point of Bahia Conception to just south of San Jaunico to the top of Mag Bay to just south of the military check point north of Loreto.
There are many different Ejidos in Mexico and . Traveling down the Mex. #1 you may notice signs beggining with the letter E, or EJ, or spelled out completely Ejido. These designate Ejido area or are milage signs to an Ejido. Some have names and if the group could not arrive at a name they were given a number.

After the Mexican revolution sometime in the 30's and more in the 70's land was awarded to mostly peasant Mexicans. The land was called Ejido lands. It was added to the the Mexican Constitution that this land would be controlled by the Ejidos, the Mexican govt. will stay out of the affairs concerning land issues of the Ejido. The Ejido were not allowed to sell this land, but could homestead and lease it with approval of the majority of the members of the particular Ejido. This was done successfully by some Ejidos and not so by others. Many times contracts were not recognized by the preceding president and conflicts ensued. Usually over money. Many times monies paid for leases were absconded by the present president and none was divided among fellow members as promised, so it may seem to the body of Ejidos that leasees were getting something for nothing when if fact their president just took the money.

Things are changing for the Ejido. Changing of the Mexican constitution concerning the Ejido makes it possible for the titling and selling of Ejido land. First the Ejido needs to have a unanimous decision to divide the particular Ejido. Next the division has to be approved by the Mexican government concluding that it will be done fairly. Next Ejido divides. Ejido La Purisma does theirs by a raffle. Parcels are surveyed prior your named is called and you pick a number out of the box.

These lands will get a first time Mexican title. Since the lands are being divided fairly I feel this will eliminate the problems of the past. Individual Ejido members can sell titled land getting cash. People buying can get title. Mexican Govt. and local municipalities can receive taxes. Now that individual E. members are not being screwed, everybody is happy.

Traveling through the baja one can se the success with some of these Ejido's dividing the land. New houses, new vehicles and the men stick their chests out a little farther and the women stand taller. Many of these people represent the true baja. Now with cash money coming from their land sales these people will have more power. Remember the Beverly Hillbillies? It is kind of like that show. Some of these people and their children will eventually become leaders of the community now that they have wealth.

On the other hand the Ejido have helped preserve the land. With people unwilling to invest on Ejido lands it has helped preserve huge natural areas. The Mexican government has been less willing to improve Ejido lands with roads and electricity keeping many parts of Mexico natural for us to enjoy. As an example nearly half of Bahia Conception beach front has been sold. Each lot is 100 meters beach by 1 kilometer. Nearly all this land has been purchased by buyers from Mexico City, Guadalajara, and Cabo San Lucas area. Lets hope for the best!

Geo_Skip - 7-26-2009 at 09:00 AM

Thanks OLIGUACOMOLE for a readable and rational summary. Sadly some stuff posted above was in language intended to obscure more than reveal. Gracias.

wilderone - 7-27-2009 at 08:48 AM

I would assume the original question pertained to Baja ejido land. Ejidos are all over Mexico, of course. In Chiapas the military has forcibly occupied ejido land and forced out the occupants - done as an element of government takeover in conjunction with US multinationals who want the oil lands. These poor indigenous have little to fight with, and have lost many lives (Acteal), and what little success they have achieved came with the support of worldwide sympathizers. The indigenous south of Cancun suffered many of the same consequences when the government took their land for developers. This scenario hasn't played out in Baja to this extreme - but certainly could. Rather, the developers who want the land just use thugs to force people out, stir up lawsuits and muddy titles - some fraudulent. In any event, because of the obscurity of ejido land titles, the lack of precedent over such land transfers, and the potential for nefarious characters to be involved, the possibility (and probability) of ejido land skirmishes are certain.

tripledigitken - 7-27-2009 at 09:21 AM

:?: