BajaNomad - A Few Mex Insurance Fine Print Items to be Aware Of

A Few Mex Insurance Fine Print Items to be Aware Of

sancho - 8-1-2009 at 12:23 PM

There has been a discussion or 2 recently regarding
fine print on Mexican Auto Insurance Policies.
Not to be boring,
I know many of us are aware of them, some may not.
Some may never read the policy.
I'm a believer in never knowingly giving an insurance co.
any reason to invalidate a policy, based on me not respecting
their requirements. Not that in the past I haven't
violated numerous times those requirements.
Looking at my annual policy, a couple items stick out.
'Policy can be invalid if vehicle in off pavement',
if taken at face value, that would give them a reason
to not honor a policy if one was on the Gonzaga road,
or a road from the Hwy into the Campos.
'policy can be invalid if alcohol was a contributing
factor', does not state intoxicated, just involved.

another is needing an fmt tourist card anywhere
in Mex over the 72 hr limit rule. I imagine I take this stuff
a little too seriously, I guess I'm getting older and
much more cautious

DENNIS - 8-1-2009 at 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sancho
another is needing an fmt tourist card anywhere
in Mex over the 72 hr limit rule.

Now one week. Rule changed.

Udo - 8-1-2009 at 12:34 PM

The FMT is no problema,
but the "off-road"... whoa!
Alcohol...whoa!
I'l need to read a little closer, now.

DENNIS - 8-1-2009 at 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by udowinkler
but the "off-road"... whoa!

I suppose they need to say that, otherwise they might be writing policys for the Baja Mil racers. :lol:

toneart - 8-1-2009 at 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by udowinkler
but the "off-road"... whoa!

I suppose they need to say that, otherwise they might be writing policys for the Baja Mil racers. :lol:

...or us!

bajabound2005 - 8-1-2009 at 04:14 PM

well, given the lack of pavement on MOST Baja roads, I'd say we've got a problem, Houston!

Bajahowodd - 8-1-2009 at 04:40 PM

Dennis- I'm curious as to your post about the 72 hours v one week. Can you refer me to just where that might be found? reason I ask is that if Sancho has a policy in front of him, I would shudder to think that the insurance company would not have contractual privilege to enforce their language. Gracias.

DENNIS - 8-1-2009 at 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajahowodd
Dennis- I'm curious as to your post about the 72 hours v one week. Can you refer me to just where that might be found? reason I ask is that if Sancho has a policy in front of him, I would shudder to think that the insurance company would not have contractual privilege to enforce their language. Gracias.

Not in my hands. It's been posted her more than once. My info comes from the horses **** mouth...an inmigracion agent.
Somebody else here will give it up.

It's not surprising that the policy would say something which, in it's age old format, wouldn't reflect todays policy.

[Edited on 8-3-2009 by BajaNomad]

David K - 8-1-2009 at 05:00 PM

Two points...

Off pavement: I would think the odds of you needing insurance protection driving to Gonzaga are nil compared to driving through downtown Tijuana. Who is going to sideswipe you or steal your car on the Gonzaga Bay road?

72 hrs. vs. 7 days: The Baja (norte) state tourism people are the only ones I have heard say that Baja Norte is a free zone and good for 7 days without an FM-T.

The problem is immigration law is FEDERAL, and I have yet to see a federal document say different than 72 hours in the border zone or any time south of Maneadero.

I think it would be GOOD to have all Baja be the border zone and FM-T free for 7 days.

The only new thing (a couple years old now) is FREE FM-T good for up to 7 DAYS. Perhaps that is where the confusion lays... free 7 day FM-T, not 'FM-T Free' for 7 days...???

Pescador - 8-1-2009 at 06:35 PM

Some of you are starting to sound like the guys who are complaining about health care and want the government to take over all health care. (Like that is a really brilliant solution to what problems we might have).
Please read your policy or ask for a sample policy before you sign up. All insurance policies are written so that a 4th grader can understand them and if you have any questions, I would think it would be a good time to talk to the agent beforehand and not afterwards. "But I thought I covered Grandma when she was up on the roof of the family station wagon, in downtown Tijuana, for getting shot by the cartel because they thought she was smuggling some wacky-tobaccy".
A policy is a contract that is easy to understand and is spelled out so that both parties know exactly what is covered and under what conditions. For example, if you are pulling a boat, that is covered, it is not covered when you are not pulling the boat. That means the insurance company was trying to cover you for the liability of pulling a boat and they were not expecting to cover the boat when it was parked at your house while you went to town.
Insurance companies, for the most part, do not try to avoid paying claims, since those are adjusted by people who have no vested financial interest in whether or not claims are paid. Normally, they would prefer to pay you, get you out of their office, and get on to the next claim. So do not project that it is some great theory of conspiracy to avoid paying claims that are truly covered claims as stated in your POLICY.

msawin - 8-1-2009 at 07:05 PM

Hey guys.. I had posted this a couple of weeks back before our trip to Loreto.
I was concerned about insurance coverage and at what point, location I got our
FMT .
I have LEWIS AND LEWIS as our broker and called and asked the question.. I
was told if in any way I was breaking the law of Mexico I had no coverage for our auto..
Went the Tecate route and waited for the stop in Guerrero Negro to our FMT.

marty

David K - 8-1-2009 at 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by msawin
...
Went the Tecate route and waited for the stop in Guerrero Negro to our FMT.

marty

What are you saying here? Is the word 'get' missing? (to 'get' our FMT).

If you didn't get the FM-T until Guerrero Negro, you were in violation of the migra law as soon as you drove more than 10 miles south of Ensenada. You could have at least gotten the free FM-T at Tecate... since they are available anywhere you enter Mexico at any time the border is open. It is the bank hours at some borders (for paying the 180 day FMT) that is variable.

I am only saying this because you wanted to follow the law so carefully... yet (unless newer federal rules can be shown) you waited until you were 400+ miles into Mexico for documentation. What if Guerrero Negro migra was closed when you got there?

Just stuff to consider if you want to play by their rules (which often are variable, lol)! :light:

sancho - 8-2-2009 at 02:30 PM

With all due respect to folks who believe 'no' fmt is
required for a 7 day stay, in my opinion are
incorrect. Back when the fmt's stopped being
free, somewhere around 10-12 yrs ago,
they then began the fmt fee. At which time the
border Mex businesses began were complaining
about the fee having a negative impact on
their business, this is where the confusion began.
Mex Imm then said a no charge 7 day fmt
would be made available. That idea morphed
into the 'mistaken belief' that an fmt was not required
for 7 days stay, the fmt is still required for more than 72 hrs,
it's just that the 7 day fmt's are free, as David clearly
states the obivious, the chance of an accident on the
Gonzaga road is minimal at best, that is not the point,
point being is that one could very well be uninsured
when violating the conditions on the policy,
logic tells me that Mex Federal Imm Laws
supercede some Baja Tourism Board who are
trying to drum up business

David K - 8-2-2009 at 02:51 PM

There you have it!

Bajahowodd - 8-2-2009 at 02:55 PM

Don't wish to pile on here, but for the life of me, why would anyone wait until Guerrero Negro to get the FM-T? As David pointed out, their hours and coverage are a little sketchy there. That being said, even if Marty was able to complete his trip in seven days (often, I am not), the $21 fee for 180 days means you don't have to stop every time you go to Mexico. There have been stories posted on other threads about the migra in Ensenada charging a fine to people seeking to get their FM-T there, saying it was supposed to be obtained at the border. So what's to stop the guy in GN from doing the same? Basically, as was pointed out, without a stamped FM-T, either free or fee, you were illegal from Maneadero on down.

And I'm thinking that what sancho, 72 hours v 7 days, says sounds right.

Hook - 8-2-2009 at 03:49 PM

'policy can be invalid if alcohol was a contributing
factor'.

What if the other driver was drinking? Wouldnt alcohol be a contributing factor?

Despite the contention that insurance companies are actually just dying to pay you off as quick as possible so they can get on to paying off the next guy in line as quickly as possible, the recent case of the couple from Canada whose towed vehicle was run into by a motorcycle bears reviewing. They had FULL coverage (not just liability) and were still delayed a week and suffered significant out of pocket expenses.

Sometimes your liability in Mexico is irrespective of your Mexican insurance policy. Sometimes the adjuster in Mexico also tries to insert himself into the equation, as in the above story. They can very easily have a vested interest in whether the claim is paid or not; usually in direct proportion to the anxiousness of the insured to be paid.

DENNIS - 8-2-2009 at 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sancho
With all due respect to folks who believe 'no' fmt is
required for a 7 day stay, in my opinion are
incorrect.

That's in the Free Zone, Sancho. Seven days, for instance, in Tijuana or Ensenada. No time break below that.

DENNIS - 8-2-2009 at 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hook
, the recent case of the couple from Canada whose towed vehicle was run into by a motorcycle bears reviewing. They had FULL coverage (not just liability) and were still delayed a week and suffered significant out of pocket expenses.

Was it established that they had a seperate policy for each vehicle? Trailers, for instance, are not an extension of the car as they are in the states. They need their own policy.

insurance

msawin - 8-2-2009 at 07:36 PM

Yep. No coverage from Ensenada to Guerreo Negro.

I knew it going down. That is not the point. I've done it to many times.

The point is, be aware of this.

There is no road sign saying "from this point on"

marty

Hook - 8-2-2009 at 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Was it established that they had a seperate policy for each vehicle? Trailers, for instance, are not an extension of the car as they are in the states. They need their own policy.

I cant imagine they had full coverage and decided to omit the vehicle they would be running around in towns in. It never was considered an issue in the story. The adjuster, the police and the courts were.

monoloco - 8-2-2009 at 08:39 PM

I always got my FMT in Guerrero Negro and have for the last few years gotten my FM3 stamped there on the way down and back and have never had any problems with migracion. The last couple of times we didn't even have to get out of the car. It's way easier to get your docs there than at the border.

David K - 8-2-2009 at 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by monoloco
I always got my FMT in Guerrero Negro and have for the last few years gotten my FM3 stamped there on the way down and back and have never had any problems with migracion. The last couple of times we didn't even have to get out of the car. It's way easier to get your docs there than at the border.

FMT is a tourist card, for people on vacation. An FM3 is a part time resident visa... just so newbies don't get confused.

Waiting to get a tourist card until Guerrero Negro means you are about 400 miles beyond the legal limit for an undocumented tourist. Do what you want, but for those who want to play by all the rules, give them the right information and not the 'easy way out' answer... yes?

monoloco - 8-2-2009 at 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by David K

Quote:

My point is that never once did it seem to be an issue with migracion, but I don't know anything about the insurance ramifications. I have been in a traffic accident in Baja and nobody ever asked to see any immigration documents.

Baja Nomad

msawin - 8-3-2009 at 06:39 AM

BAJA NOMAD , the best. I would die with out it. A thread a couple of months back made me get off my butt and check out this issue of auto insurance coverage. I have been driving Baja for 20 years now. I
always try to go by the book. I have around 30 neighbors at our Tripui home. I have been trying to let them know of the FMT limits for coverage.

But it ain't just the FMT. When is the last time you drove Baja by the posted speed limit? How can you. What does that mean? How about not one single cold beer on the drive?

You find out about your insurance coverage when you make a claim. I've gone threw 2 major fires and at that time I found out about my insurance coverage...

marty

DENNIS - 8-3-2009 at 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by msawin
How about not one single cold beer on the drive?

WHA....GASP..SPUTTER..... Unthinkable. Don't even talk like that in jest.

BajaGeoff - 8-3-2009 at 03:19 PM

I contacted Genworth Seguros to get information about coverage on dirt roads. They will provide coverage on dirt roads as long as it is a main thoroughfare or what is considered a "municipal road" to get to a particular destination.

Coverage will cease when you take your vehicle on a rough trail or less maintained road that is in bad shape or if you are driving off the road completely. Basically, they are just making sure that people understand there is no coverage for driving on the beach, through sand dunes or trailblazing on really rough terrain where it would be impassable for a normal vehicle trying to get from point A to point B. Use your best judgment and you will be fine. If the road looks really sketchy, it probably isn't covered.

woody with a view - 8-3-2009 at 03:25 PM

in other words, don't roll your rig in the dunes or get it buried in the sand when the tide is coming up????? but as long as a passenger vehicle (probably carrying the adjuster) can get in there you'll be okay?

Desertbull - 8-3-2009 at 06:48 PM

and one of my close friends discovered that if you are in anyway, shape or form assisting an off road race team and you are involved in an accident during the events surrounding the race week...you're not covered....

I researched my own annual policies on my trucks and SUV's we take to Baja and ended up changing companies because during prerunning and race events, even if you are personally not racing, but if you are "involved" in any aspect of chasing or assisting, i.e. headed down to a remote pit to help out and you are involved in an insurance claim, it can be rejected for that reason...stupid, but I witnessed this happen to a good friend, as opposed to a not so good friend like Capt. Mike, Baja Xplorer, Wild Bill, and the likes of those kinds! Bwah!!!

anyhow be careful if you help out race teams and check with you policy to verify you are covered...and by the way, you should always be 100 percent covered! : )