BajaNomad - STOP DESTROYING BAJA´S ARCHITECTURAL HERITAGE

STOP DESTROYING BAJA´S ARCHITECTURAL HERITAGE

JESSE - 8-19-2009 at 03:29 PM

Listen up Chilango, American, Canadian, European developers, architects, builders, STOP BUILDING Mickey Mouse interpretations of Baja Architecture!!! You destroyed Cancun for ever, what makes you think your chesseball designs are going to work here???

It is not what tourist want, it is not what locals want, and it is not helping to preserve and even promote a great architectural style that when done properly, is simple, beautiful, and unique.

This is NOT Coyoacan
This is NOT Barcelona
This is NOT North Africa

I am tired of looking at all of these Chesseball renovations-constructions, that have nothing to do with Baja.

Heres what i am talking about this is NOT Baja:

Now, pay close attention, this IS Baja:

[img]http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3117/2509916722_8ab4218fc4.jpg?v=0[/img]

[img]http://farm1.static.flickr.com/165/430369642_e7e56ecb47.jpg?v=0[/img]

Try to be less minimalistic, and more simple. Try to get rid of those cliche bold yellow, pink, and blue colors from central Mexico, and go for earth tones. Use wood, old wood. Dont´t be lazy, and do something more interesting than copying what you saw back home. Baja architecture is less like an elaborate Mole and more like grilled Lobster with Olive oil, its more simple, yet elegant. Baja style is sort of a blend of NeoClassical Tropical with Mission Architecture.

If you can´t figure it out, go somewhere else and screw their heritage.

David K - 8-19-2009 at 03:33 PM

Don't hold back Jesee.. tell us how you really feel! :smug:

Baja was popular just being undeveloped... to change something that 'works' (ie. to fix it, if it isn't broken) makes no sense, does it!?

OLIGUACOMOLE - 8-19-2009 at 03:42 PM

Agree agree agree......but what kind of cheese is a cheesball????

woody with a view - 8-19-2009 at 03:59 PM

a cheezball is usually stinky, "from under." AKA quesa frumunda.

JESSE - 8-19-2009 at 04:13 PM

Cheeseball

Coming from the word "cheesy", "lame". Just think of a greasy cheeseball.

mtgoat666 - 8-19-2009 at 04:16 PM

I like these:

Quote:

Originally posted by JESSE

DENNIS - 8-19-2009 at 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JESSE
Listen up Chilango, American, Canadian, European developers, architects, builders, STOP BUILDING Mickey Mouse interpretations of Baja Architecture!!!

Don't stop there. The abominations that have been designed and built by Mexican architects on the coast between Rosarito and Ensenada, in the effort to develop a unique style are stomach turning. Some of them look like huge bird cages and others should be issued "Arch Violations" for their overuse of the form. The Minarets are like skin eruptions on an otherwise pretty face and the meaningless little rooms stacked atop functional buildings make no sense. They're the most ugly thing that could happen to a beautiful coastline.
I've seem other work here that is scary. Rooms on a single floor that are 45 degrees to the rest of the rooms. Rooflines that look like they fell out of the sky. Most of these 'designers" seem to be trained in Mexicali and the school of architecture there should be deemed off-limits by the Decency Police.
What ever happened to the Barrigan school of thought and design? What's being produced today, he wouldn't walk into. Maybe because he wasn't really an architect but, an engineer. In spite of that, he remains one of Mexico's most highly honored designers. He's turning in his grave.

JESSE - 8-19-2009 at 04:33 PM

mtgoat666,

NO SOUP FOR YOU!!!! :spingrin:

ELINVESTIG8R - 8-19-2009 at 04:39 PM

Here is the Baja I love!

DENNIS - 8-19-2009 at 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JESSE

The most appealing element of this house is the shadows. They don't last forever, do they?

JESSE - 8-19-2009 at 04:44 PM

I love the Homedepot like inspiration.

DENNIS - 8-19-2009 at 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JESSE
I love the Homedepot like inspiration.

Interior by Pier Six. :lol:

k-rico - 8-19-2009 at 04:48 PM

I like them all, new and old. The top one in Jesse's photos is my wife's kind of place, she's Mexican. I could hang around there. I'd get rid of the stick covering tho and add a pool table somewhere.

DENNIS - 8-19-2009 at 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by JESSE

The most appealing element of this house is the shadows. They don't last forever, do they?

Oh my Gawd...Something just occured to me about this foto. Not only is there one residential abortion pictured but, the shadow says there's one more just like it just a bit closer to the sun.

k-rico - 8-19-2009 at 04:54 PM

"Oh my Gawd...Something just occured to me about this foto. Not only is there one residential abortion pictured but, the shadow says there's one more just like it just a bit closer to the sun. "

There is a 1 centimeter set-back rule in Mexico. That way you can fill in the gap with duct tape.

[Edited on 8-19-2009 by k-rico]

vandenberg - 8-19-2009 at 04:56 PM

Hey Jesse,
Maybe you approve of this "AUTHENTIC MEXICAN VILLAGE" at Loreto Bay. :biggrin:

David K - 8-19-2009 at 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JESSE
mtgoat666,

NO SOUP FOR YOU!!!! :spingrin:

Yah... good one!

He is from the group who can't help change things that are already good... or try and fix stuff that isn't broken...

DENNIS - 8-19-2009 at 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by vandenberg
"AUTHENTIC MEXICAN VILLAGE"

No way. Absolutly not authentic. I don't see even one parked car with the hood up.

David K - 8-19-2009 at 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ELINVESTI8
Here is the Baja I love!

They moved the fireplace! :light:

Rancho el Metate, near the destroyed mission visita site of San Juan de Dios.

k-rico - 8-19-2009 at 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by vandenberg
Hey Jesse,
Maybe you approve of this "AUTHENTIC MEXICAN VILLAGE" at Loreto Bay. :biggrin:

Naw, no place to park a wrecked car or store garbage in front.

Bajahowodd - 8-19-2009 at 05:01 PM

Jesse- I didn't get soup, and I didn't pee you off. That being said, Architecture is a global thing. What do you picture when someone mentions Greece? Probably that blue domed structure in Oia on the isle of Santorini. That doesn't mean it's the definitive architecture of Greece. Don't tell me that you would be happy with palapas being the signiture archetecture of Baja. Just wondering if you just got a delivery of very tough beef.

JESSE - 8-19-2009 at 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by vandenberg
Hey Jesse,
Maybe you approve of this "AUTHENTIC MEXICAN VILLAGE" at Loreto Bay. :biggrin:

Locals call it INFONAVIT for Gringos :lol:

For those that don´t know, INFONAVIT is public housing Mexican style.

DENNIS - 8-19-2009 at 05:07 PM

I've seen a lot of INFONAVIT housing but, nothing like that. They look like dog houses.

k-rico - 8-19-2009 at 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JESSE
Listen up Chilango...........

JESSE, explain to us gringos just what is up with the Chilango vs. Baja Californian thing. Why do baja natives dislike folks from Mexcio City? Is it like folks from South Podunk, Iowa disliking New Yorkers?

DENNIS - 8-19-2009 at 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by k-rico

JESSE, explain to us gringos just what is up with the Chilango vs. Baja Californian thing. Why do baja natives dislike folks from Mexcio City? Is it like folks from South Podunk, Iowa disliking New Yorkers?

It's their nasty superior attitude. Not exclusive to Baja either.

[Edited on 8-20-2009 by DENNIS]

k-rico - 8-19-2009 at 05:09 PM

Snobs, eh?

DENNIS - 8-19-2009 at 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by k-rico
Snobs, eh?

Worse. According to them, you live in the provences.

k-rico - 8-19-2009 at 05:12 PM

I understand, I'm from New York.

Baja architecture came from Spain

Lee - 8-19-2009 at 05:18 PM

Must be the arches, too narrow doors, and wrought iron bars over the windows.

JESSE - 8-19-2009 at 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by k-rico

Quote:

Originally posted by JESSE
Listen up Chilango...........

Its a long topic. First thing i would say is that Baja Californians live in the least populated state of Mexico. This as many of you know, gives you considerable time by yourself. Privacy. Thats why locals are people who few words. Chilangos on the other hand come from a sardine like packed city. They are never alone, and grow up talking talking talking, and elbowing their way into everything.

We locals really dislike their never ending talk and necessity to talk about themselves. We just dont get it. We also find that Chilangos are very good at pretending they like you, even when they don´t. Locals call it like they see it. If they don´t like you, they don´t pretend to like you.

Another big one, Chilangos ALWAYS think they are right. Its a social thing with them, its like its so competitive in their sardine can, that even when wrong, they could never admit to it. Locals could care less. Sometimes your right, sometimes your wrong, its life. All you can do is to try to be right more times than not.

Russ - 8-19-2009 at 05:23 PM

I'm not trying to be difficult or cause a row. But I can't picture what a traditional "Baja" home would look like from the out side. Something with power & water and nice appliances. Pass on the dish or TV antenna. I like to draw floor plans and each new drawing is a little more utilitarian (had to look that word up). And each location changes how I'd like it to sit on a lot. I'm not a city person so I'm looking at a large lot with wall privacy. Small 2 bdrm, say 1200 + sq. ft. or a little more. Jesse or any one have any examples I'd really like to see them.

k-rico - 8-19-2009 at 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JESSE

Quote:

Originally posted by k-rico

Quote:

Originally posted by JESSE
Listen up Chilango...........

My wife is a cachanilla, she despises chilangos, who are most of our neighbors. Very tribal.

[Edited on 8-20-2009 by k-rico]

DENNIS - 8-19-2009 at 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by k-rico
My wife is a cachanilla, she despises chilangos, who are most of our neighbors. Very tribal.

The subject whips up the emotions of racism.

k-rico - 8-19-2009 at 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by k-rico
My wife is a cachanilla, she despises chilangos, who are most of our neighbors. Very tribal.

The subject whips up the emotions of racism.

Same race, it's a socio-economic class thing.

k-rico - 8-19-2009 at 05:34 PM

Back to old vs. new architecture. Arches over openings in load bearing walls are no longer needed. Too bad.

DENNIS - 8-19-2009 at 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by k-rico

Same race, it's a socio-economic class thing.

I was talking about the intensity of emotions.

surfer jim - 8-19-2009 at 06:06 PM

.....perhaps something built of ....CARDBOARD.....might be more traditional.....

DENNIS - 8-19-2009 at 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by surfer jim
.....perhaps something built of ....CARDBOARD.....might be more traditional.....

Good one.
When I was very young and being driven through Tijuana, I saw so many signs on peoples houses, I thought KOTEX was a land developer.

mtgoat666 - 8-19-2009 at 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JESSE
mtgoat666,

NO SOUP FOR YOU!!!! :spingrin:

jesse:
you love that colonial architecture. you are imperialist, no?

if you want authentic baja architecture, you should go live in a stick-lean-to or cave, and decorate your rocks/yard/walls with pictographs, and you better throw out the cuisinart and start using a mortero and pestel.

anywho, you sound like prince charles arguing against modernism and favoring return to architecture of the olden feudal days. you also sound like don quixote.

you think baja is all about rural. the vast majority of baja citizens live in urban TJ and ensenada and the smaller urbanized areas.

if you want all your neighbors to live to your aesthetics, go build a master planned community yourself, and call it jesseville :lol:

JESSE - 8-19-2009 at 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mtgoat666

Quote:

Originally posted by JESSE
mtgoat666,

NO SOUP FOR YOU!!!! :spingrin:

I was raised in TJ, and i have family all over rural Baja. IF you had paid attention to my original post. You might have noticed that i was talking about new development. I don´t think anybody can deny that Cabo looks more and more like Cancun, and less like Baja. This is not about money, its about taste, but you obviously can´t see what i am talking about.

Howard - 8-19-2009 at 06:53 PM

As a wise man once said, “change is inevitable”. As much as I would like to see the charm of the “Mexican look” in Mexico remain, change will happen.

Am I offended that in the USA, I can drive around and see influence of the Spanish look, the Asian look, the Scandinavian look? I personally am not that offended and that is what diversity is all about. Will it go overboard with to much of a modern look in Mexico? Probably so.

Hang me out to dry but the house with the pool look pretty damn nice. Are you sure some of you folks are not a little bit jealous? I am.

Don’t shoot me, I am just the messenger saying that the change will come, it is unavoidable, everywhere! (Didn’t Bob Dylan, sing a song about this, the “change is in the wind”)

JESSE - 8-19-2009 at 07:03 PM

I am not against change, i am against stupid change.

BajaGringo - 8-19-2009 at 07:04 PM

It is a very subjective thing. Even the Soup N-zi should know that - some folks love minestrone while others insist on split pea...

DENNIS - 8-19-2009 at 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JESSE
I am not against change, i am against stupid change.

"Ugly" is easier to qualify than "Stupid."

CaboRon - 8-19-2009 at 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Howard
As a wise man once said, “change is inevitable”. As much as I would like to see the charm of the “Mexican look” in Mexico remain, change will happen.

Am I offended that in the USA, I can drive around and see influence of the Spanish look, the Asian look, the Scandinavian look? I personally am not that offended and that is what diversity is all about. Will it go overboard with to much of a modern look in Mexico? Probably so.

Hang me out to dry but the house with the pool look pretty damn nice. Are you sure some of you folks are not a little bit jealous? I am.

Don’t shoot me, I am just the messenger saying that the change will come, it is unavoidable, everywhere! (Didn’t Bob Dylan, sing a song about this, the “change is in the wind”)

Thank you, Howard, for a breath of reality :bounce:

Paula - 8-19-2009 at 08:25 PM

I think the problem with the first group of houses in Jesse's post is one of scale. I can only talk about the places I know, and Tijuana is sadly not one of them. In Loreto, the houses that have been here a while, and many newer houses built by Mexican people are low and small. But there seems to be a contest going on among Gringos, and the winner is he who buys the largest lot, and fills it with the most pretentious building. Personally, I don't get it, as one of the things I like about living here is simplicity.

Are most of the upper group of pictures hotels and b&b's? I see that in the lower group you've shown Casa Leree, which is beautifully and lovingly restored-- maybe my favorite hotel anywhere, and a hotel in Todos Santos, which is also beautifully re-done.

Some of the new places in Cabo, and all along the coast are just so out of scale with this skinny little piece of land that is Baja that it seems they may sink the whole peninsula!

monoloco - 8-19-2009 at 11:02 PM

oh, and don't forget it's not Santa Fe either so drop the fake vigas and the Taco Bell facade.

motoged - 8-19-2009 at 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Howard
(Didn’t Bob Dylan, sing a song about this, the “change is in the wind”)

Howard,
Not quite....Bob asked a range of questions about important issues....and said that the answer(s) is blowing in the wind:

www.lyricsfreak.com/b/bob+dylan/blowin+in+the+wind_20021159....

At another point in time he said that "The Times are a changin"
Just as Jesse suggests...

Close, but no banana

[Edited on 8-20-2009 by motoged]

duke62 - 8-20-2009 at 01:07 AM

Okay, I shall enter the fray.

Design/planning is very personal. For example, I cannot stand going up to North County, San Diego, where I grew up, much less drive by the crap they are putting on the hills between TJ and Ensenada. To me, it just peees me off that both are cheap imitations on a style that is not endemic. By the way, ever been to Phoenix, Las Vegas?

That being said, I have had the pleasure to see a modernist house in a vineyard in Guadalupe Valley that fit the landscape perfectly. And it was practical: Huge overhaging roofs to protect from the sun... I could go on.

We inherited a tiny casita in Baja, and all we have done (except bringing it back from the verge of ruin) is put in a back patio to get us out of the wind coming off the ocean (and keep ants off the guests). Form follows function.

p.s. If there is a Baja endemic style, I would vote for vintage '50's/'60's trailers. Anyone want to start a thread on that? We have a 30' 1955 Spartan on our lot as our guest house.