BajaNomad - 80% of Estuary burned-Pictures added

80% of Estuary burned-Pictures added

bajajudy - 8-20-2009 at 06:48 AM

At 7 last night when we left the house to feed the arroyo dogs, we noticed a fire in the farthest palms of the estuary. The winds were at about 15mph and whipping the flames along at an alarming rate. By 8 the fire was dangerously close to the sales office of Puerto Los Cabos. The fire raged on as fire departments from as far away as La Paz came to help. The pipas were racing in and out with water. Any of you who have been to my place know that we are very close to this area. We were fortunate that the wind was not out of the south or southeast and we never actually even smelled smoke but watching a horrendous fire no more than a quarter of a mile away with high winds was unnerving. I doubt that they will let us down to the beach today but, if so, I will take some photos
Here is an article in spanish which I haven included for the photos if nothing else.

http://www.tribunadeloscabos.com.mx/newpage/index.cfm?op=por...

[Edited on 8-22-2009 by bajajudy]

bajajudy - 8-20-2009 at 07:22 AM

Just took a tour of my yard. Large ashes all over it. Went upstairs and there are places that I can now see the sea where there once were palms.

Cardon Man - 8-20-2009 at 08:10 AM

That's very sad and unfortunate news Judy.

DrTom - 8-20-2009 at 08:31 AM

i hope no one was hurt. but actually, a burn which happens in nature all the time is good from a biological point of view, it just takes a while....the estuary will come back quick.

wilderone - 8-20-2009 at 08:55 AM

"a burn which happens in nature" ??
Mose likely caused by stupid humans. The estuary will still be an estuary in some way, shape or form, however, it will never be as it was. Biologically, it is changed. During the time it takes for the palms to grow and provide shade, all the plants, water, animals needing and thriving on the palm's shade in the past will change; other changes will occur, adapting to the ash and turbidity; lack of food; natural seeding; nesting habitat gone, one species overtaking a species that requires more time or conditions that don't exist now; etc.
It will never be as it was.

Crusoe - 8-20-2009 at 09:16 AM

Wow!!!! What a shocking expierience!!!...When old palm trees burn its really bad news for lots of animals. That habitat is there homes. From Butterflies to Owls to Vultures. Every thing is intertwined.Also other trees and shrubs usually burn also, which is feed for other animals and plants. Could have been a lighting stike but doubtful. Did the dogs get fed? ++C++

bajajudy - 8-20-2009 at 09:18 AM

We decided not to try to go to the beach over by the estuary, thinking that they may still be cleaning up. We went over to the La Playita side and from there I would have to say that it looks like the estimation of 80% may be high. From the fishing tables you cannot see any burnt palms. There was a bit of ashes in the water where we swim but again not as many as one would expect.
My GUESS would be that this was human caused. We had no lightening but, as I said, very strong winds.

bajajudy - 8-20-2009 at 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by CrusoeDid the dogs get fed? ++C++

Yes!
There were so many vehicles racing around that I led them up under the bridge, whistling and shaking the cup with the food in it. Once they were all gathered around me, I fed them and told them to stay out of the way. They said, Si Senora.

monoloco - 8-20-2009 at 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by wilderone
"a burn which happens in nature" ??
Mose likely caused by stupid humans. The estuary will still be an estuary in some way, shape or form, however, it will never be as it was. Biologically, it is changed. During the time it takes for the palms to grow and provide shade, all the plants, water, animals needing and thriving on the palm's shade in the past will change; other changes will occur, adapting to the ash and turbidity; lack of food; natural seeding; nesting habitat gone, one species overtaking a species that requires more time or conditions that don't exist now; etc.
It will never be as it was.

A burn doesn't necessarily kill a grove off palms. I have seen many such fires occur in the Todos Santos area where the trees were not killed.

DianaT - 8-20-2009 at 11:08 AM

Judy,

Really happy that you were safe, but really sorry for the fire overall. Thanks for the report.

Diane

Cypress - 8-20-2009 at 11:46 AM

bajajudy, Thanks for the report. In some places, fire is a force of nature that is an important component of the ecosystem, not in an estuarian palm forest. Those burns take many years to recover.

Plant palms ??

djh - 8-20-2009 at 12:58 PM

Hi Judy,

Sorry you lost your nice shady estuary cover.

Do you suppose that you and other neighbors who love the estuary could plant some small palms to help start the recovery and healing process?

From a human standpoint ~ it helps to put feelings into action... in this case the sense of loss into some restorative steps. It might help..

From a biological standpoint ~ before the area dries out so much from loss of the canopy and shade, it might be the best time to get some young palms started ? ? ?

Just a thought I thought I'd share.

djh

motoged - 8-20-2009 at 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by soulpatch
Stuff burns then regrows. It is a natural cycle. It is the totally aggressive suppression of fires that leads to the catastrophic fires that people freak out about.

Quote:

Originally posted by wilderone
"a burn which happens in nature" ??
Mose likely caused by stupid humans.

Spoulpatch,
Correctomundo !! Up here in British Columbia we have had catastrophic forest fires this year and several years ago...and the forestry experts concur that to let some fires burn is the plan....what humans need to do to stop property damage is to clean up the "fuel" that litters forests near buildings/development so as to reduce cost to humans.

As for the faun and flora, it tends to balance itself out according to nature's Big Plan....

It is certainly disturbing to witness such fires and consider the life-forms lost...but it is a reminder of our relative insignificance as humans and our relationship with forces often beyond our control....

Planting a few palms may be a good idea....as is trimming the dead and dry fronds (fuel).

Mexitron - 8-20-2009 at 03:19 PM

Couldn't quite tell from the photo what kind of palms those were--if its the San Jose Hesper--Brahea brandegii--then its native to the area. If its the Mexican Fan Palm--Washingtonia robusta--then its not really native to the site anyway (and has been declared an invasive pest in California, if anyone's being a purist). Either way, those palms tend to survive fires quite well, so there probably isn't any need to plant small ones...wait to see if the existing ones resprout.

Bajahowodd - 8-20-2009 at 04:01 PM

Or maybe God was sending a message to the folks at Grupo Questro.

[Edited on 8-20-2009 by Bajahowodd]

Hook - 8-20-2009 at 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mexitron
Couldn't quite tell from the photo what kind of palms those were--if its the San Jose Hesper--Brahea brandegii--then its native to the area. If its the Mexican Fan Palm--Washingtonia robusta--then its not really native to the site anyway (and has been declared an invasive pest in California, if anyone's being a purist). Either way, those palms tend to survive fires quite well, so there probably isn't any need to plant small ones...wait to see if the existing ones resprout.

So, who went around sowing all the Robusta seeds in the lower Colorado Desert areas of SoCal? Palm Springs, Borrego, etc. What has made it non-native?

Just asking, 'cause sometimes I think common sense has been declared an invasive pest in California.

Crusoe - 8-20-2009 at 04:41 PM

Soulpatch and Motoged....You must understand one simple thing. A forest fire in a British Columbia forest which is comprised of many different types of trees,such as Douglas Fir, Western Hemlock,Western Red Cedar, Yellow Cedar, White Pines, Alder, Big Leaf Maple, Madrona ( Arbutis), Yew, Tamarack, and Juniper and that forest recieves from 30 to over 130 inches of rain in one year has a completely different enviro.scenario than a very dry desert environment which in a good year, gets 6 inches of rain in a normal year, and all of that in 2-3 months if they are lucky. You cannot "say let her burn-Its a natural cycle" because they are two complete opposite comparisons. I have watched Palm trees burn in Baja and it is scary!!!! If a fire is a bad one it will take some time for it to return to normal. Not a good event! ++C++

Cypress - 8-20-2009 at 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Crusoe
Soulpatch and Motoged....You must understand one simple thing. A forest fire in a British Columbia forest which is comprised of many different types of trees,such as Douglas Fir, Western Hemlock,Western Red Cedar, Yellow Cedar, White Pines, Alder, Big Leaf Maple, Madrona ( Arbutis), Yew, Tamarack, and Juniper and that forest recieves from 30 to over 130 inches of rain in one year has a completely different enviro.scenario than a very dry desert environment which in a good year, gets 6 inches of rain in a normal year, and all of that in 2-3 months if they are lucky. You cannot "say let her burn-Its a natural cycle" because they are two complete opposite comparisons. I have watched Palm trees burn in Baja and it is scary!!!! If a fire is a bad one it will take some time for it to return to normal. Not a good event! ++C++

bajajudy - 8-21-2009 at 07:01 AM

More in Spanish on the fire
http://www.tribunadeloscabos.com.mx/newpage/index.cfm?op=por...
I will not attempt to translate but the estimated area has been reduced to 50% and one sentence says that a glass bottle with the sun on it can start a fire.

Taco de Baja - 8-21-2009 at 07:23 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hook

Quote:

So, who went around sowing all the Robusta seeds in the lower Colorado Desert areas of SoCal? Palm Springs, Borrego, etc. What has made it non-native?

Just asking, 'cause sometimes I think common W. robusta sense has been declared an invasive pest in California.

Birds, and Coyotes plant many of the W. robusta seeds. Also many of the "fan palms" in the lower Colorado are W. filifera....which are native to the area…And are actually the only palm native to the US west of Texas.

motoged - 8-21-2009 at 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Crusoe
Soulpatch and Motoged....You must understand one simple thing. ..... You cannot "say let her burn-Its a natural cycle" because they are two complete opposite comparisons. I have watched Palm trees burn in Baja and it is scary!!!! If a fire is a bad one it will take some time for it to return to normal. Not a good event! ++C++

Crusoe,
I agree....my thinking is NOT "let 'er burn", but that , while upsetting to watch the devastation of such fires, it is sometimes an event from which an area recovers over time. As you point out, such difference in environments will contribute to the "recovery" factor.

I am not at all suggesting that we sit back and not make an effort to manage such events....all we can really do is try and prevent human-caused fires.....removing "fuel" such as dead stuff is one step that can be undertaken....

I always am saddened by the loss of wildlife in such situations.

[Edited on 8-21-2009 by motoged]

wilderone - 8-21-2009 at 10:39 AM

Removing fuel will not prevent human-caused fires.
This is something mankind, in its infinite ignorance, has propegated in response to fire events, caused by ignorant human beings, to "do something about it" after their homes - built in a forest - burned.
"Managed" forests are not complete, healthy forests - they are sorry remnants of forests. The "fuel" you speak of, eventually breaks down into vital components of a healthy soil needed to sustain fungi and plant life; it is habitat for bacteria, insects, rodents, birds, etc. - a healthy chain of life; it also stabilizes temperatures in order that grasses, flowers, seeds - several species of which are food for wildlife - can be sustained. And this is only a capsule of life in a forest - life in an estuary - life in a desert. And what else does mankind, in its infinite ignorance, not know about the interaction of all living and dead things in such an environment? Mankind will do everything to alter the environment to suit themselves - "save my house, remove all the trees"; drain an estuary/wetlands, and build condos for profit; etc. (too many examples to list).
If mankind would respect, protect, nurture and encourage healthy natural places, we would be much better off.
As to preventing fires and their results, I think Smokey the Bear, said it best.

Cypress - 8-21-2009 at 12:48 PM

A serious fire will alter the landscape for at least 40 yrs. Recovery is a slow process. Too much "Smokey the Bear" attitude will only result in devistating fires in the future.

pix

bajajudy - 8-22-2009 at 03:36 PM

This was taken when the fire had just started

[Edited on 8-22-2009 by bajajudy]

fire1.jpg - 41kB

15 minutes later

bajajudy - 8-22-2009 at 03:40 PM

Notice how the smoke is almost going sideways. Strong winds!

fire2.jpg - 36kB

bajajudy - 8-22-2009 at 03:43 PM

Another shot taken from the La Playa end of the incomplete bridge.

fire4.jpg - 44kB

bajajudy - 8-22-2009 at 03:47 PM

Two days later, this is what we found walking down the beach side of the estuary. This is in the center of the estuary. That hillside was not visible before

[Edited on 8-22-2009 by bajajudy]

fire3.jpg - 33kB

bajajudy - 8-22-2009 at 03:53 PM

These pelicans seem unconcerned. Although there was a lot of habitat destroyed, I believe that there is enough left to support anything that survived.
One thing that I noticed is that the tops of many of the palms are still green. I think that because the wind was so strong the fire moved on before getting to the top.

[Edited on 8-22-2009 by bajajudy]

fire8.jpg - 43kB

bajajudy - 8-22-2009 at 03:59 PM

This lone palm kind of says it all.

fire7.jpg - 34kB

Bajahowodd - 8-22-2009 at 04:41 PM

Thanks so much for sharing the photos, Judy. the estuary has been one of my favorite places for decades. Here's hoping that there will be a rapid recovery.

Crusoe - 8-22-2009 at 04:43 PM

Judy.....Thanx for the pics and update. I know exactly where that is. Have camped very near there 20 years ago. It is hard to tell the amount of damage from pictures sometimes, but I think, it looks like the fire just burned and blew itself out. Be thankful it was a windy afternoon. If had started earlier in the day and there was no wind it could of spread inta a much bigger incident. ++C++

ecomujeres - 8-23-2009 at 10:44 PM

The article cited actually says that 20 hectares seem to have been affected by the recent fire but that the damage to the estero as a result of the recent fire, as well as past fires and hurricanes, has now reached 50% of the estero's total area.

Crusoe - 8-24-2009 at 08:58 AM

20 acres is a very significant amount when added up to the amount of raw desert in and around the area! ++C++

DianaT - 8-24-2009 at 11:25 AM

Thanks for the pictures.

mtgoat666 - 8-24-2009 at 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by soulpatch
Smokey Bear doesn't talk

sure he does.

Russ - 8-24-2009 at 03:05 PM

20 hectors = 49.4 acres

Mexitron - 8-25-2009 at 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hook

Quote:

Technically, the Washingtonia robusta--Mexican Fan Palm--is only native to a few canyons in Central Baja (Catavina has a few) and in a couple canyons in Sonora. It IS intriguing why such a prolific palm is so limited in the wilds...I think some have suggested that they have reproductive/genetic issues in their habitat. All the W. robustas you see in the the lower Colorado, etc. were introduced. Personally I have no problem with them naturalizing, they are pretty and a boon for wildlife(and I love seeing them grow in the center dividers of the 5 freeway in LA!)--I merely mentioned that for those who are worried that a native habitat has been scorched---with the palms its stretching it a bit...although from the pictures that Judy has graciously posted they look like they will recover just fine. As Taco de Baja pointed out, the palms in the canyon above Borrego are the Washingtonia filifera--California Fan Palm.