BajaNomad - where is the true tip of baja?

where is the true tip of baja?

bajasuzie - 10-13-2009 at 07:55 AM

Is it true that Land's End is not the true tip of Baja? That actually the point where the light house is on the pacific side is the tip?

oldjack - 10-13-2009 at 08:01 AM

The "true tip" is 1.73miles south of Los Barriles... that which temporarily extends beyond that point is just an alluvial event waiting for some cleansing action(sorry Judy you need to relocate)...

I may have mis-read the question but the "true tip" would probably be the most southerly land point....

vandenberg - 10-13-2009 at 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by oldjack
I may have mis-read the question but the "true tip" would probably be the most southerly land point....

.....OR....don't cross the street against a red light....... :biggrin:

Baja&Back - 10-13-2009 at 08:40 AM

By GPS, the "true tip" attached to land actually is the Arch at Cabo. The most southerly piece of land sticking above the waves is the Roca Ultima, about 8 feet high, maybe 60 feet south of the arch

Before some Nomad starts a war about the accuracy of 8 feet, yes, I know about Tidal Ranges. :lol:

Am I getting paranoid or is it this board??? :?:

David K - 10-13-2009 at 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by oldjack
... but the "true tip" would probably be the most southerly land point....

The map is Baja Topo Atlas, from government topos. I added an east/west line of latitude to see the place that is the most southern... the beach between Cabo Falso and Cabo San Lucas. Cabo Falso, above which is the lighthouse is #2...

The rocks of 'Los Arcos' is surely the most dynamic looking of the three points... I think keeping it as the 'tip of Baja' would be best for photo shots, etc!

Baja&Back - 10-13-2009 at 10:17 AM

David: your map is crooked! Too many Pacificos.

Barry A. - 10-13-2009 at 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Baja&Back
David: your map is crooked! Too many Pacificos.

According to the Latitude lines (which show in David's picture), David has the map oriented correctly----also according to my "old" BAJA ATLAS which is a duplicate of the one that David used. Of course, the Atlas may be wrong, I suppose.

Barry

Barry A. - 10-13-2009 at 10:34 AM

Just a note of interest---------the main AAA club map of Baja is oriented incorrectly, as you look at it, but when you check out the Latitude lines on it you will realize this, and correct to account for it.

Barry

David K - 10-13-2009 at 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Barry A.
Just a note of interest---------the main AAA club map of Baja is oriented incorrectly, as you look at it, but when you check out the Latitude lines on it you will realize this, and correct to account for it.

Barry

That's because Baja isn't a perfect north/ south peninsula, it goes southeast, so much that the southern half is in a different time zone... So, for it to fit on rectangular map AAA or wall maps, it needs to be tilted or leaning.

As you can see the 'cape' at San Lucas points EAST, not south.

Barry A. - 10-13-2009 at 11:44 AM

I know, I know---------you are just trying to convince all of us that the peninsula leans "right", not "left"------obviously a political statement, very rude and haughty of you, and obviously just can't be true because YOU said it. I bet you watch FOX NEWS, too!

OK, now attack me------------------

(sorry about this-------I just could not help myself) :lol:

Barry

JESSE - 10-13-2009 at 11:55 AM

So technically, the Arch is not on both sides, just on the Sea of Cortez one.

Pacific or Gulf?

Cardon Man - 10-13-2009 at 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JESSE
So technically, the Arch is not on both sides, just on the Sea of Cortez one.

I've often wondered about where the Pacific ends and the Cortez begins. Is it a line drawn from the arch to the mainland? On Wikipedia there is a map that shows the Gulf of California beginning well "around the corner", around Cabo Pulmo or so. What up?

The True Tip ?

MrBillM - 10-13-2009 at 12:36 PM

More importantly, where do you find the Best Tri-Tip in Baja ?

fdt - 10-13-2009 at 12:47 PM

And lovers beach (Playa del Amor)? Does this mean it's gay? :?:

Bajahowodd - 10-13-2009 at 01:37 PM

Despite David's map, why would anyone have put el faro where it is unless it was to signify something? For as long as I can remember, Cabo Falso was considered to be the Southern-most point.

bajasuzie - 10-13-2009 at 01:57 PM

Can any provide more info on whether the tip would then be Sea of Cortez or Pacific. Or is there such a thing as a mixture?

Bajahowodd - 10-13-2009 at 02:16 PM

I suppose an oceanographer would be of help here. What I do know from personal experience is that on the SOC side, the water does not warm significantly until many miles NW of El Arco. I would guess that the actual body of water by name would be when it is no longer directly influenced by the Pacific. Just a guess. Look forward to any help on this.

Barry A. - 10-13-2009 at 02:19 PM

Susie------I don't believe that it has ever been really defined----nor should it be, probably. Since technically the "Sea of Cortez" is an appendage of the Pacific Ocean, the actual boundery is really moot, and up to personal interpretation--------at least that is the way I have always heard it explained.

Barry

David K - 10-13-2009 at 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajahowodd
Despite David's map, why would anyone have put el faro where it is unless it was to signify something? For as long as I can remember, Cabo Falso was considered to be the Southern-most point.

The map is Mexican government in origin, and correct... North is the top. What I did was draw that east/west line so it is easy to see the SOUTHERNMOST 'tip' of Baja... and drew the arrow to point that out.

IMO:
As for the romantic cape (San Lucas) and the seperation of the gulf from the Pacific... taking a line and going straight east from the cape to the mainland would be logical... However, as said above, the water isn't really typical of being a gulf vs. an ocean until one is north of the cape region... where there are no ocean swell created waves. That would probably be where the coast faces more east instead of more south?

Do the people who live between San Jose del Cabo and Cabo San Lucas call the sea water in front of them the Gulf of California (Sea of Cortés) or the Pacific Ocean?

Here is the McMahan wall map with Baja tilted NW to SE:

McMahan Map-r.JPG - 49kB

Bajahowodd - 10-13-2009 at 03:55 PM

Still doesn't explain why the lighthouse is where it is. btw, a friend and I visited the lighthouse many years ago. Unbeknownst to us, there was a caretaker. We came upon him taking a bath in a tub that was outside, just below the lighthouse. He jumped up, grabbed a gun, and chased us wet and naked. At least he didn't fire his weapon.

David K - 10-13-2009 at 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajahowodd
Still doesn't explain why the lighthouse is where it is. btw, a friend and I visited the lighthouse many years ago. Unbeknownst to us, there was a caretaker. We came upon him taking a bath in a tub that was outside, just below the lighthouse. He jumped up, grabbed a gun, and chased us wet and naked. At least he didn't fire his weapon.

The lighthouse is on the hill above Cabo Falso, close enough to the southernmost point of Baja to keep ships away from hitting it, I would think THAT is a great place... It is just a couple miles west of the bottom point of Baja and where the coastline begins to curve northward... :light:

[Edited on 10-13-2009 by David K]

Bajahowodd - 10-13-2009 at 04:22 PM

Easy for you to say, not having been chased by a naked man with a gun. :biggrin:

David K - 10-13-2009 at 04:28 PM

I see your point... 'er tip... 'er cape... 'er never mind! :lol:

[Edited on 10-13-2009 by David K]

JESSE - 10-13-2009 at 04:30 PM

Quote:

Makes total sense.

Bajahowodd - 10-13-2009 at 05:01 PM

However, this IS Mexico.

Baja&Back - 10-13-2009 at 07:53 PM

Quote:

Hey. There's my excuse!
I was looking at the AAA map, not the David map. Aw, right! :?:

Thanks, Barry!

Ken Bondy - 10-14-2009 at 08:50 AM

More fun with geography: When you travel from Tijuana to Cabo San Lucas you have traveled just about the same distance to the east as you have to the south. And.....Cabo San Lucas is east of Salt Lake City. Try that one on for size

Skipjack Joe - 10-14-2009 at 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ken Bondy
And.....Cabo San Lucas is east of Salt Lake City. Try that one on for size

I know. I even met a few Mormons in black suits at Cabo the other day. :lol:

Bajahowodd - 10-14-2009 at 10:35 AM

And Reno is due North of Los Angeles!

Ken Bondy - 10-14-2009 at 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajahowodd
And Reno is due North of Los Angeles!

Actually, I think LA is a little east of Reno. At least part of it is

AND

MrBillM - 10-14-2009 at 10:54 AM

The Atlantic is on the West side of the Panama Canal with the Pacific on the East. Not that it has anything to do with the tip of Baja.

Von - 10-14-2009 at 01:41 PM

Everyone is so helirious! I love it! :lol:

tripledigitken - 10-14-2009 at 01:42 PM

"Land's End" for me is sitting in the Whale Watch Bar at the Finistera enjoying a Bloody Mary.

If you're real lucky you will see a Whale Spout like I did the last time there. You won't care which exact point is the most southerly part of the pennisula.

Ken

David K - 10-14-2009 at 01:43 PM

It's a funny thing about the Panama Canal, but Bill is correct...

Bajahowodd - 10-14-2009 at 01:56 PM

I like Ken's idea. But I have to say, it was once a more pristine view. Much.

DENNIS - 10-14-2009 at 02:07 PM

Everyone has neglected to mention the one, universal TIP of Baja:

DON'T DRIVE AT NIGHT.

vandenberg - 10-14-2009 at 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MrBillM
The Atlantic is on the West side of the Panama Canal with the Pacific on the East. Not that it has anything to do with the tip of Baja.

Therefor: ''''''''''''''''''''''''Go east, young man""""""""""""""" :biggrin:

DENNIS - 10-14-2009 at 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MrBillM
The Atlantic is on the West side of the Panama Canal with the Pacific on the East. Not that it has anything to do with the tip of Baja.

Really? I need to look at a map for this one.
For you folks who are familiar with HWY 3, Ensenada to Tecate, south to north....there is about a mile run halfway between that has the morning sun blazing through the driver side window. My compass reads SOUTH for that mile.

That's pretty amazing stuff...isn't it.

vandenberg - 10-14-2009 at 02:17 PM

Dennis,
Getting a "limey" car would solve that problem. :biggrin:

Bajahowodd - 10-14-2009 at 02:25 PM

At the Panama canal, the Pacific Ocean is measured as being 20cm higher than the Atlantic. So, theoretically, if there were no locks, but just a straight channel cut through Panama, there would be a steady current flowing from the East to the West (as Bill pointed out) Pacific to Atlantic.

Barry A. - 10-14-2009 at 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajahowodd
At the Panama canal, the Pacific Ocean is measured as being 20cm higher than the Atlantic. So, theoretically, if there were no locks, but just a straight channel cut through Panama, there would be a steady current flowing from the East to the West (as Bill pointed out) Pacific to Atlantic.

Sounds like a golden opportunity to create some perpetual hydroelectric power, to me. :light:

Barry

David K - 10-14-2009 at 03:20 PM

Quote:

I have heard that... Does it have to do with Earth's rotation or tidal factors? Since 'sea level' is a reference point considered constant word wide. Of course 20 cm is only about 8 inches, right?

vandenberg - 10-14-2009 at 03:22 PM

Not going to question Howard on that 20cm. That;s only about 7 inches. And the locks are immense. May have something to do with the tides. Logic tells me that high tide on the east side, will occur at the same time as ebb tide on the opposite side. :?:

DENNIS - 10-14-2009 at 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by vandenberg
Dennis,
Getting a "limey" car would solve that problem. :biggrin:

Don't you mean an "Arnold?" If you keep going right, pretty soon you're going left.

DianaT - 10-14-2009 at 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by vandenberg
Dennis,
Getting a "limey" car would solve that problem. :biggrin:

Don't you mean an "Arnold?" If you keep going right, pretty soon you're going left.

or maybe hit a dead end of indecision---and maybe it will be at the very real tip of Baja

Getting a Lock on the Tides

MrBillM - 10-14-2009 at 04:04 PM

In the case of the "Current" Panama Canal, if there were no locks, there would be no flow other than the lakes emptying into the oceans.

A Sea-Level canal IS Feasible, was originally envisioned and is still talked about today, including through Nicaragua, but it will "Probably" never happen. It came up again recently when it was feared Panama would eventually run out of water to operate the Canal Locks.

AND, according to what I've read, the height involves a number of factors including Water Density and Tidal influences which would account for a Flow even with a Sea-Level Canal.

Skipjack Joe - 10-14-2009 at 04:15 PM

Coriolis Effect causes eastern pacific water to "pile up" on our western shores. Due to rotation of the planet.

http://www.arizonaenergy.org/WaterEnergy/The%20Major%20Ocean%20Currents.htm

A More Specific Reference

MrBillM - 10-14-2009 at 05:38 PM

http://www.pol.ac.uk/psmsl/puscience/

Sea level is about 20 cm higher on the Pacific side than the Atlantic
due to the water being less dense on average on the Pacific side and due
to the prevailing weather and ocean conditions. Such sea level differences
are common across many short sections of land dividing ocean basins.

The 20 cm difference business is determined by geodetic levelling from one
side to the other. A datum called Panama Canal Datum is used. When you use
spirit levelling you follow a 'level' surface (to our perceptions, see 1)
which will be parallel to the geoid (which is geometrically a 'lumpy' surface).
The geoid is the surface of constant gravitational potential (plus a 'centrifugal
potential' term) which on average coincides with the sea surface i.e. a 'level'
surface in everyday language. The 20 cm difference at Panama is not unique. There
are similar 'jumps' elsewhere e.g. Skagerrak, Indonesian straits.

If the canal was open sea and not locks (i.e. if somehow a deep open cutting had
been made rather than the canal system over the mountains) then there WOULD be a
current flowing from Pacific to Atlantic. An analogy (although not a perfect one
because there are many other factors) is that you could compare Panama to the Drake
Passage off the south tip of Chile which has a west-east flow (but mostly wind-
driven of course, but Pacific-Atlantic density must play some role).

Locks are needed in the Panama Canal because the canal climbs over the hills and
makes use of mountain lakes. Therefore, locks would be needed even if sea level was
the same on the two sides. (So, for example, there are also locks on canals here in
England which is much less mountainous than Panama).

Note also that the tides have opposite phase on the 2 sides of Panama, so, if there
was a sea level canal, there would be major tidal currents through it.

Bajahowodd - 10-14-2009 at 05:46 PM

I'm glad I could spur some research. As unbelieveble as it seems, there is a water density dif between the Atlantic and the Pacific. Beyond me to understand it. If anything, I would have thought that the Atlantic was warmer than the Pacific at Panama. What do I know? But, it ain't going to affect how we all feel about Baja. Enjoy one of nature's wonders.

Bob H - 12-11-2010 at 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Baja&Back
David: your map is crooked! Too many Pacificos.

Actually, I would never question David K on the subject of Baja maps! Never, ever. You will get burned. :lol: