BajaNomad - Are they "Santa Ana" winds or "Santana winds" ?

Are they "Santa Ana" winds or "Santana winds" ?

Woooosh - 10-28-2009 at 11:08 AM

The term used in the USA for the hot dry winds that blow east to west during fire seasons is "Santa Ana". I suppose this names comes from either the spanish explorer or the name of the CA mountain range.

My Mexican relatives call that same wind phenomen a "Santana"- meaning a hot devil wind. That makes much more sense to me. Most all early Californians were mexicans and that origin seems more likely than naming the hot dry wind after a Spanish explorer or a mountain range (that may have been named afterwards).

Any nomads have the historically correct answer?

Which Wind ?

MrBillM - 10-28-2009 at 11:22 AM

When I was a youngster in '50s-'60s Los Angeles, "Santana" was the term I heard most frequently from the newscasters, especially George Putnam and (noted below) George Fischbeck.

From Wikipedia:

"Dr. George Fischbeck was a widely viewed newscaster in Southern California in the 1970s and 1980s who incorrectly called the winds the "Santana winds", noting that they were not confined to Orange County (where Santa Ana is located), but occurred throughout Southern California. He delighted in the symbolism of the devil's breath playing havoc with Southern California.

One account places the origin of the term Santa Ana winds with an Associated Press correspondent stationed in Santa Ana who mistakenly began using Santa Ana winds instead of Santana winds in a 1901 dispatch".

Not the first time a Spanish Word got lost in Translation.

DENNIS - 10-28-2009 at 12:34 PM

This explaination is the same that I heard fifty years ago, living at the beach.
Maybe the word will go right under "Gringo" for words that have a forgotten origen.

http://www.atmos.ucla.edu/~fovell/ASother/mm5/SantaAna/winds...

woody with a view - 10-28-2009 at 12:38 PM

whatever you call it, the north winds HOWLED yesterday at 29 palms. the desert visibility was 1/4 mile or less....

castaway$ - 10-28-2009 at 12:39 PM

I love Santana, the song black magic woman kicks a**.

DENNIS - 10-28-2009 at 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by woody in ob
whatever you call it, the north winds HOWLED yesterday at 29 palms. the desert visibility was 1/4 mile or less....

They're blowing like hell here today. Just came back from town and there are spots on HWY 1 that is almost zero visibility from the dust coming across the road. Not warm like a normal Santa Ana either.

mtgoat666 - 10-28-2009 at 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Woooosh
Any nomads have the historically correct answer?

the winds were named after high winds coming out of santa ana canyon (santa ana narrows), the name stuck and got applied elsewhere. "santana" is not satan; "satana" is satan. santa ana canyon (or narrows) is the 91 fwy area between corona and yorba linda, and not near city of santa ana

Bajahowodd - 10-28-2009 at 12:55 PM

It was like that in LA yesterday. Seems odd it would take so long to travel such a short distance. And by the way, however you spell it, we all understand what it refers to. Usually, the higher the pressure syetem, the stronger the winds. I was surprised years ago to encounter such winds along the Sea of Cortez in BCS in December.

lizard lips - 10-28-2009 at 01:02 PM

The wind is blowing like hell here in Ensenada and it's blowing on-shore. The Santana or Santa Ana winds always blow in from the east or southeast.

DENNIS - 10-28-2009 at 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajahowodd
It was like that in LA yesterday. Seems odd it would take so long to travel such a short distance.

With storms coming from the north, east or west, we usually see them about a day later. Same with rain.

Ironically, I was putting up rain gutters today. At least, I was before the wind picked up. I don't know why I bother unless it's some kind of sub-concious ritual inspired by the rain dances of the past.

ecomujeres - 10-28-2009 at 01:33 PM

Whatever the correct name/history is, an interesting note is that a native Spanish speaker will pronounce "Santa Ana" as "Santana" because of the first word ending in an "a" and the second word beginning in an "a".

Bajahowodd - 10-28-2009 at 01:36 PM

Good point!

vandenberg - 10-28-2009 at 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by lizard lips
The Santana or Santa Ana winds always blow in from the east or southeast.

Maybe

that's were the name difference is. :biggrin:

Santana from the east...
and.....
Santa Ana's from the southeast.....
or....
visa versa.

Bajahowodd - 10-28-2009 at 01:39 PM

Quote:

I guess the fact that the climate is so similar in Southern California and Northern Baja, it never occurred to me that weather could take so long to move through.

DanO - 10-28-2009 at 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by castaway$
I love Santana, the song black magic woman kicks a**.

WARNING: CONTINUING THREAD HIJACK.

Oye Como Va is better, IMHO. Here's a live version. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LpPb2cVswlI
And here it is being performed by the late, great Tito Puente, who wrote it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lj_XxBKG53g
The Mexican band Kinky does a pretty good version of it too.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTe29s0hJCo

Woooosh - 10-28-2009 at 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DanO

Quote:

Originally posted by castaway$
I love Santana, the song black magic woman kicks a**.

Carlos Santana is a Tijuanero- so the humble author of this thread will allow references to him without threat of hijack. :lol:

[Edited on 10-28-2009 by Woooosh]

Woooosh - 10-28-2009 at 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ecomujeres
Whatever the correct name/history is, an interesting note is that a native Spanish speaker will pronounce "Santa Ana" as "Santana" because of the first word ending in an "a" and the second word beginning in an "a".

yup, it could be that simple. thanks

Dave - 10-28-2009 at 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Woooosh
Carlos Santana is a Tijuanero- so the humble author of this thread will allow references to him without threat of hijack. :lol:

Tijuana may claim him but he's from Jalisco. He lived about five years in TJ before immigrating to the States.

dean miller - 10-28-2009 at 03:28 PM

My office for almost 35 years was in Anaheim hills/Yorba Linda area.

The winds were always called Santana winds by the natives.

I always enjoyed the hot dry winds..but now don't miss them..

SDM

shari - 10-28-2009 at 03:30 PM

Ecomujeres sounds correct to me...great
Now today your ensenada snotty wind got to us down here. It started to blow pretty hard..25 knots yesterday....didnt let up all night...well...maybe a bit...continued to honk all morning and now she's CRANKED up to 30 knots over here on the point...roofing crew took the afternoon off.
But this definately isnt a Santaaaana as it's muy frio

oh yeah, the swell is building...machine...so doesnt look good for fishing tomorrow either amigos...uh oh.

DENNIS - 10-28-2009 at 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by shari
It started to blow pretty hard..25 knots yesterday....

Strange...We didn't get it yesterday but, I'll bet we do tomorrow.
This stuff is useless.

DianaT - 10-28-2009 at 03:38 PM

Lived much of my life in the San Gabriel Valley and we all called them the Santa Ana winds, and did not look forward to them. It often did and still does mean brush fire time.

When the Santa Ana Winds are blowing, and a wild fire begins, well, there is no stopping the fire. So I have no idea of the "correct"name, but they often mean trouble.

DENNIS - 10-28-2009 at 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DianaT
we all called them the Santa Ana winds

they often mean trouble.

That's how I came to know them as a kid in Newport. They would come through hot and furious, taking sand from the beaches and piling it in the streets. It created work like snow removal in the east. If your car was parked in the wrong place, your paint job and windshield were ruined.
Seems the more development that took place to the east, the less severe were the winds.

"Trouble" is the word, Diana. There must be a reason for high wind but, what good is it.

bajaguy - 10-28-2009 at 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

"Trouble" is the word, Diana. There must be a reason for high wind but, what good is it.

A great way to make electricity.........you should be able to turn out the kilowatts at your place, Dennis

Bajahowodd - 10-28-2009 at 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by dean miller
My office for almost 35 years was in Anaheim hills/Yorba Linda area.

The winds were always called Santana winds by the natives.

I always enjoyed the hot dry winds..but now don't miss them..

SDM

Yorba Linda natives?

Diver - 10-28-2009 at 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Woooosh

Quote:

Originally posted by DanO

Quote:

Originally posted by castaway$
I love Santana, the song black magic woman kicks a**.

Carlos Santana is a Tijuanero- so the humble author of this thread will allow references to him without threat of hijack. :lol:

[Edited on 10-28-2009 by Woooosh]

Good thing; could've started a war.
I LOVE Carlos S A N T A N A ! :biggrin:

Growing Up in Orange County

Gypsy Jan - 10-28-2009 at 05:57 PM

They were always called "santana winds", lower case.

Here is a quote from an article on the subject:

"Q. Where did the name for the Santa Ana winds come from?

A. Sources vary. The most common explanation has the wind being named for the Santa Ana Canyon in Southern California's Orange County, which discounts its rather more regional scope and impact. However, alternative explanations are much more dubious. It is often claimed that "Santa Ana" is a corrupted version of "Santana" which is purported to mean "devil" in Spanish or an Indian language. Yet, the Spanish word for devil is "diablo" and its Satan is "Satana", conspicuously missing an extra "n". The Indian language in which "Santana" means devil has not yet been identified. I am not a linguist, but I suggest it is more likely for a term like "Santana" to have evolved from "Santa Ana" than vice-versa (think "San Francisco" becoming "Frisco" or "New Orleans" devolving into "N'orleans"). References to Mexican General Santa Anna have also been made. All I'm fairly sure of it's not likely named after the feast day of Santa Ana in the Catholic calendar as that falls in July, outside of Santa Ana season.

In early 2008, I decided to take a look through the archives of the Los Angeles Times to see how often terms like "Santa Ana" and "santana" appeared in its pages.

Q. What other nicknames has the Santa Ana earned?

A. Santa Ana winds occupy an important place in Southern California literature. In Raymond Chandler's stories, which were set in Los Angeles, Santa Anas appear by name and also by nicknames such as "devil wind" and "red wind". The winds also figure in Joan Didion's and Michael Connelly's works.

From the Treebeard Stumper Website

Gypsy Jan - 10-28-2009 at 06:12 PM

"When I was a surfer kid growing up in Santa Monica, I'm sure we called them santana winds, and "Santa Ana" was just the media name on TV. The winds meant wild offshore winds to hold the waves up for surfing. (See the Surfline Santa Ana page.) That name gave an extra kick to the band Santana who played "Black Magic Woman", and I always assumed the band name was adopted. I'm wrong! Guitar master Carlos Santana was born with that name. En Español, I think "santana" is Saint Anne, mother of Mary and grandmother of Jesus. The devil is "satana". (I think this site is right about the name but wrong about the meaning.) Now I'm confused. Where does the old name come from? Other historical Santanas include the Mexican general who led the attack on the Alamo, and the Mescalero Apache war chief (photo right). Could there be a connection between these warriors and the winds in the old californio culture that came before the city of Santa Ana ever existed? "

BajaDanD - 10-28-2009 at 06:39 PM

I grew up in So. Cal we always called them Santa Ana winds. I dont remember anyone ever calling them Santana winds.

David K - 10-28-2009 at 07:20 PM

With a total of 3 years exception, I lived my entire live in San Diego County. The correct term is 'Santa Ana Winds'... anything else is just a slip of the tongue... like 'san-ta-na'. It happen when a high pressure is over the Four Corners region (see Pompano' post on the 4 Corners) and a low pressure is out in the Pacific, off Baja.

Air moves from high pressure to low pressure, and is heated from compression (not becuse it comes from the desert)... It is warmest on the coast.

Today's event was not a true 'Santa Ana'... as the wind was coming from the north and from the ocean, later in the day. It was also COLDER than normal, not warmer. I work outside and was in Solana Beach today and experienced it first hand!

Don Alley - 10-28-2009 at 07:30 PM

I also grew up in LA, and in the fifties and early sixties I always heard them called Santa Ana winds. The first time I heard "Santana" it was the band, and I didn't connect the name with any wind. But I do remember after the band became popular people calling the wind the Santana Wind, and I thought it sounded silly.

So, as far as I can tell, these winds are called the Santa Ana winds by some, after the Santa Ana Canyon, or, by others, the Santana Winds, after a band and guitarist. :biggrin:

Paula - 10-28-2009 at 07:39 PM

My votes go to ecomujeres and DanO :dudette:

David K - 10-29-2009 at 08:36 AM

That's funny, Don Jorge...

mtgoat666 - 10-29-2009 at 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by David K
With a total of 3 years exception, I lived my entire live in San Diego County. The correct term is 'Santa Ana Winds'... anything else is just a slip of the tongue... like 'san-ta-na'. It happen when a high pressure is over the Four Corners region (see Pompano' post on the 4 Corners) and a low pressure is out in the Pacific, off Baja.

Air moves from high pressure to low pressure, and is heated from compression (not becuse it comes from the desert)... It is warmest on the coast.

Today's event was not a true 'Santa Ana'... as the wind was coming from the north and from the ocean, later in the day. It was also COLDER than normal, not warmer. I work outside and was in Solana Beach today and experienced it first hand!

actually, santa ana is a katabatic wind, and only truly occurs when air in mojave desert is colder than air on west side of mountains

Woooosh - 10-29-2009 at 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gypsy Jan, ... I suggest it is more likely for a term like "Santana" to have evolved from "Santa Ana" than vice-versa (think "San Francisco" becoming "Frisco" or "New Orleans" devolving into "N'orleans").

Not to hijack my own thread but... Frisco wasn't meant to be San Francisco. In the 1800 gold rush days the railroad system ended before the continental divide in Colorado at a town called Frisco. That was the end of the rail line at the time. Heading west to Frisco was going to the end of the tracks in Colorado. No one is San Francisco calls their city Frisco. "San Fran" and "The City"- yes... "Frisco" is used only by tourists. Of course I could just be dead wrong again...

Ken Bondy - 10-29-2009 at 10:21 AM

I grew up in LA and in the 50s and 60s I never heard anything other than "Santana" winds. Not sure when that started changing to "Santa Ana" winds but it definitely started as Santana (devil) winds.

DENNIS - 10-29-2009 at 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ken Bondy
I grew up in LA and in the 50s and 60s I never heard anything other than "Santana" winds. Not sure when that started changing to "Santa Ana" winds but it definitely started as Santana (devil) winds.

Again, where I came from, they were called Santa Anas in the 50s.

I think what we've come to is a stand-off on this issue.

[Edited on 10-29-2009 by DENNIS]

elgatoloco - 10-29-2009 at 11:52 AM

Born in Pasadena 51 years ago lived in Alhambra for 20 years moved to Huntington Beach for 13 years (end of the Santa Ana river nearby) then to Laguna for a few and now in San Diego for the last 13. I have always known the hot dry winds as Santa Ana winds. We referred to them as 'devil winds' because of the way they affected some peoples behavior in a strange way. When they started to blow we would head for the beach because we knew the surf would be good all day. :dudette:

As for Santana he has been my favorite artist since the first time I heard him at the tender age of 11 years old thanks to my older brother and sister. He has been responsible for a lot of great music for three plus decades and has hardly slowed down. My top ten greatest live shows have been nine of his and a Bruce Springsteen Born in the USA show. Listen to a live recording of Baila Mi Hermana and you get a taste of what it was like live with the percussion section and horns and Carlos all playing full speed ahead. The last 1:40 of Black Magic Woman/Gypsy Queen is an explosion of rhythm and percussion. Some of my favorite tunes are his instrumental stuff, Samba Pa Ti, Aqua Marine, Europa to name a few. Who amongst us can not relate to Evil Ways? That was the anthem for a few of my relationships way back when. Carlos has played with and for more artisits than anyone else I can think of. He was making 'world music' before there was 'world music'.

Viva Carlos Santana!

Martyman - 10-30-2009 at 10:47 AM

Don't forget this reference by Steely Dan. You musicologists may remember in the song Babylon Sister. "Here come those Santa Ana winds again".
Another line was "So fine so young, tell me I'm the only one".

Mexitron - 10-30-2009 at 11:14 AM

elgatoloco--I was born in Pasadena 51 years ago too (Huntington Hosp.), and lived in SoCal for all but the last 3...
I've heard both used but the generally accepted usage is Santa Ana named after the canyon--and the wind does howl down it!

DanO - 10-30-2009 at 11:32 AM

They have always been referred to as "Santa Ana" winds since I was a kid growing up in West L.A. and Santa Monica.

DianaT - 10-30-2009 at 12:54 PM

The name thing is always interesting---I doubt either one is more correct---just a difference in how some people referred to it.

It is like the County of Del Norte in northern California. Until we moved there, we thought it was pronounced like its Spanish origins. When we moved there, we discovered the locals left the a sound off the end----more like Del Nort.

Most people I know refer to the capital of South Dakota, Pierre, in accordance with its French origin----my dad's family was from South Dakota and they always pronounced it like Pier. Many, many more examples---so it all depends.

Santa Ana, Santana----same hot dry wind, just referred to differently.

elgatoloco - 10-31-2009 at 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mexitron
elgatoloco--I was born in Pasadena 51 years ago too (Huntington Hosp.), and lived in SoCal for all but the last 3...
I've heard both used but the generally accepted usage is Santa Ana named after the canyon--and the wind does howl down it!

Huntington Memorial! 4/29/58!

Living in San Diego these last years makes me long for regular Santa Ana events, we get them less frequently down here. Definitely due to global climate change donch ya think?

Santa Ana is the correct usage and any other reference is just by folks who don't know better. :rolleyes:

Just kidding! :dudette:

Don't sweat the small stuff!

DENNIS - 10-31-2009 at 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by elgatoloco
Santa Ana is the correct usage and any other reference is just by folks who don't know better. :rolleyes:

Just kidding! :dudette:

No you're not. :lol:

You're right though. :yes:

elgatoloco - 10-31-2009 at 03:11 PM

It's tough sometimes always being right. Once I thought I was wrong about something but I was mistaken. I know you can relate Dennis. :lol:

We CAN all get along!!

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by elgatoloco
Santa Ana is the correct usage and any other reference is just by folks who don't know better. :rolleyes:

Just kidding! :dudette:

No you're not. :lol:

You're right though. :yes:

David K - 10-31-2009 at 03:14 PM

Yep... born next door to Santa Ana at St. Joseph's Hospital in Orange (9-18-57) while my parents were moving from L.A. to Del Mar... 'Santa Ana' winds used to happen more in the Fall than in the Winter... when I was a kid. But, what is normal... then or now?