BajaNomad - What would you do

What would you do

noproblemo2 - 11-8-2009 at 07:36 PM

OK, so what would you do if someone said they were going to have someone who had been deported back to Mexico smuggled back in to the US in order to be with their family again?

DENNIS - 11-8-2009 at 07:38 PM

That's me. Mind your own business.

noproblemo2 - 11-8-2009 at 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS
That's me. Mind your own business.

Well in this case I would tell someone!!! Thanks for making up my mind for me... :light:

toneart - 11-8-2009 at 08:47 PM

Hire them.

DENNIS - 11-8-2009 at 08:48 PM

Why did you ask?

noproblemo2 - 11-8-2009 at 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS
Why did you ask?

Just curious, it seems a scenario that could happen, no it hasn't to me.

Barry A. - 11-8-2009 at 09:14 PM

Considering how few are actually "deported", I tend to be really curious about what they got deported for !?!?!?!?!?!?

-------and would act accordingly/appropriately when I learned. :yes:

Barry

SteveD - 11-8-2009 at 09:29 PM

Why help them come back illegally, so they can be deported again? If the person warrented it (not a scum bag, etc.) help them come back legaly so they won't have any more problems.

Bajahowodd - 11-9-2009 at 12:04 AM

The whole issue is terribly complex. There was this story just this week about a Guatemalan woman that was facing deportation as she was smuggled into the US at age 6. She ultimately married a US citizen who served in the Iraq war and came home with a major PTSD problem. He claimed that it was his wife who enabled him to cope. And they have kids. Anyway, after all the press scrutiny, the authoritities granted her legal status on humanitarian grounds. Again, there are thousands of different stories out there, mostly ignored by those who would take an absolutist position. Personally, I think our culture would be so much poorer, if not for the latino immigrant.

Mulegena - 11-9-2009 at 12:38 AM

Just curious: What is involved in a person gaining residency/working papers in the US?

Shall we discuss the Mexican/US Border Fence?

Hook - 11-9-2009 at 12:52 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Barry A.
Considering how few are actually "deported", I tend to be really curious about what they got deported for !?!?!?!?!?!?

-------and would act accordingly/appropriately when I learned. :yes:

Barry

I dont think it's "how few" anymore, Barry.

There are plenty of them that have been returned to Sonora around here. Most of the ones I've talked to have no plans on trying to return again. It's too tough to get back, it's too tough to get a job and it's too easy to get caught again for even so much as a traffic violation.

Personally, I'd let fate run its course. If they want to go through all that grief to get back and find a job, go for it. But its not that easy anymore.

alafrontera - 11-9-2009 at 01:49 AM

"The whole issue is terribly complex."

Oh crap, I am new here and was hoping to avoid issues like this for a while, but this one pushes my buttons

Quote:

Originally posted by Barry A.
Considering how few are actually "deported", ...

Barry, I cordially invite you to come visit me and I will take you to the "special gate" at San Ysidro. Any day, any hour. They push them through like cattle. It is amazing, they come from all over Mexico and we push them through a turnstyle into TJ with nothing more than the clothes on their backs. Then we have the nerve to excite the public through our media about the crime and violence in Tijuana. Hmm... push hundreds of penniless men through the gate into a rough city they have never been to with no way to contact their families and then wonder why there is so much crime. Gosh, I'm baffled :rolleyes:

Yes, it's a complicated issue and a major one here in San Diego. As Bajahowodd implied, if you avoid the extremest positions and try to look at it objectively you can go nuts trying to figure out what is right. As for the original question obviously you have to follow your conscience but personally I wouldn't say a thing to anyone. People cross illegally every day. I have a friend that has been here for many years, goes home 3-4 times a year. He says it's a piece of cake, there are so many trails over the mountains he doesn't think twice. If he gets caught today he crosses tomorrow, no big deal.

Flatlander - 11-9-2009 at 05:56 AM

My wife and I befriended a man in Guatemala and over the years became close friends with his wife and four kids...we sent them funds over the years to take them from a shack in the jungle to a cinder block structure with electricity and eventually a computer to bring their kids into this century.
In nine years we have put the two oldest boys through teaching college and agricultural college respectively. Essentially we have set this family on a course for the rest of their life with the potential to avoid poverty for the next generations.
I once inquired as to the possibility of bringing them to the US as their sponsors with the assistance of attorneys. The area they are in is becoming dominated by the drug cartels being pushed out of Mexico.
I was told it would be impossible as our friend did not posses skills the US would want. I am a contractor and would provide for his employment and sign off on providing their health care...no burden on the US here for my own doing.
It cannot be done. He would have to sneak over the border. That is the answer to those who wonder why they do just that.

P.S. I am new to this site and I appreciate the civility of all the members! Thanks to all...hope to see you in Baja sometime!

a friend's experience:

Dianamo - 11-9-2009 at 07:01 AM

One of my closest friends is a US citizen but live part-time in Argentina. She has been seeing a man in Argentina for several years, he cannot obtain any type Visa, for just a visit. Money is not an issue. He is a single man, professionally employed with a child in Argentina and every reason to return, but the US will not let him visit legally. He can visit if they get married in Argentina, but my friend will NEVER get married AGAIN!

k-rico - 11-9-2009 at 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mulegena
Just curious: What is involved in a person gaining residency/working papers in the US?

I believe one of the reasons there are so many illegals is because the process to do it legally is complex, expensive, and takes a looooong time.

I married a Mexican citizen. After two years, $3000 in lawyer fees, an airplane trip to the US Consulate in Juarez, two physical examinations, two separate interviews by US agents, and a MOUNTAIN or paperwork, she obtained permanent residency (a green card). To expect laborers to follow the process is unreasonable.

BTW, all of this was after I signed documents saying that I would support her and pay back the US Gov for any social services she may claim in the future (welfare, etc.).

[Edited on 11-9-2009 by k-rico]

Martyman - 11-9-2009 at 08:57 AM

What is the difference between nothing and ignore (in the poll)?

DENNIS - 11-9-2009 at 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Martyman
What is the difference between nothing and ignore (in the poll)?

Nothing. Just ignore it. :lol:

DENNIS - 11-9-2009 at 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Flatlander
I appreciate the civility of all the members!

Hey...Wait a minute. We have a hard earned image to maintain. :lol:

Woooosh - 11-9-2009 at 09:14 AM

My family runs into this problem every few years. Someone goes back to mainland Mexico on a family emergency or something- and then needs to get back to the USA to their family. I just stay out of it. If they need a safe place to stay while waiting for their coyote hook-up they are welcome, as always, at our house. We don't judge, but everyone in my family knows better than to ask us for any money for a coyote. We don't support any type of illegal immigration to the USA- fill out the papers, pay your money and wait your turn for a visa. If they can't do that- they should stay home in Mexico where they belong and I'm not shy about telling them that.

One reason we are so tough is people get lazy about following through with their paperwork once they cross over illegally. Even if they have the initial intention to do so. I have two "illegal" sisters-in-law stateside with grown US citizen children. They still speak very little English and have never applied for papers for themselves. They live and socialize only with other Mexicans and never assimilated. If they had to wait in Mexico to get the papers before they crossed- they wouldn't have lived in fear for 18 years and would have a better lifestyle in the USA. JMHO though.

It's not about the money. It takes about $4000 to get across whether you hire a coyote or go through the process to enter legally with a visa.

DENNIS - 11-9-2009 at 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Woooosh
It takes about $4000 to get across whether you hire a coyote or go through the process to enter legally with a visa.

Coyotes charge that much? No wonder organized crime has taken over the industry.

Woooosh - 11-9-2009 at 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by Woooosh
It takes about $4000 to get across whether you hire a coyote or go through the process to enter legally with a visa.

Coyotes charge that much? No wonder organized crime has taken over the industry.

Yup- that's the price. They started doing the coyote thing as COD a few years back too. So coyotes are now guaranteed their money and no one in the group pays if they don't make it across. The coyotoes hold them in a "safe house" on the USA side until the money is paid. If the money isn't ready- it gets very ugly, very fast.

arrowhead - 11-9-2009 at 09:58 AM

The best thing you can do in these situations to to stay out of it. It is a no-win scenario. By the way, my sister-in-law, a naturalized US Citizen, went through all the paperwork for her two daughters to legally immigrate to the US. Total time from start to finish - 12 years.

[Edited on 11-9-2009 by arrowhead]

DENNIS - 11-9-2009 at 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by arrowhead
Total time from start to finish - 12 years.

That sucks. I think I'd be running through the hills too.

arrowhead - 11-9-2009 at 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by alafrontera
Barry, I cordially invite you to come visit me and I will take you to the "special gate" at San Ysidro. Any day, any hour. They push them through like cattle. It is amazing, they come from all over Mexico and we push them through a turnstyle into TJ with nothing more than the clothes on their backs. Then we have the nerve to excite the public through our media about the crime and violence in Tijuana. Hmm... push hundreds of penniless men through the gate into a rough city they have never been to with no way to contact their families and then wonder why there is so much crime. Gosh, I'm baffled :rolleyes:

With all due respect, you don't know jack. You are just regurgitating some things you heard. First of all, had you actually been at the turnstyle you would know that the US gives each person a brown paper sack with a bottle of water and some personal hygiene items before they are sent through the gate. You would also know that right on the other side are Mexican government employees who record the names of the returnees and arrange for them to make free phone calls to their family for money/tickets home. They also start them on the process to get their Mexican ID papers. Everybody gets at least one night at a shelter and three meals. Women and children can stay in the shelters much longer.

And if you want to know who is screaming like a stuck pig about the crime in Tijuana, I suggest you learn Spanish and start reading the Mexican newspapers. What you read NOB is nothing but a small faction of the ranting going on down in Mexico. And if you want a real eye-opener, and a quick lesson in Mexican vulgarities, you should read what the law-abiding citizens of Tijuana call these repatriated Mexicans.

k-rico - 11-9-2009 at 10:23 AM

"With all due respect, you don't know jack."

hahaha, pointy head you're a real charmer!

"And if you want a real eye-opener, and a quick lesson in Mexican vulgarities, you should read what the law-abiding citizens of Tijuana call these repatriated Mexicans. "

Come on, fill us in, what do they call them?

[Edited on 11-9-2009 by k-rico]

TMW - 11-9-2009 at 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by k-rico
"
Come on, fill us in, what do they call them?

[Edited on 11-9-2009 by k-rico]

I would like to know too.

Bajahowodd - 11-9-2009 at 12:30 PM

The point about speaking little English, socializing only with one's kind, and not asssimilating..... Mexicans don't hold the monopoly on that. Just travel around SoCal and visit neighborhoods of Vietnamese, Koreans, Samoans, Bangladeshis. The list goes on. It's not much different than the ghettos occupied by the Irish, or the Italians a century ago. Of course last century, it was easier to enter the country. And today, there are lots of illegals in the communities I cited. Certainly not numbering as high as the Mexicans. As for never applying for papers, it's already been mentioned, that for many, it would be a futile waste of time and money. JMHO

alafrontera - 11-9-2009 at 12:56 PM

This is all really interesting.

Arrowhead, you are right, I only know what I am being told in TJ and here locally. I forget sometimes to qualify what I say with phrases like "what I've heard" or "in my opinion", I didn't mean to sound like an authority on the subject.

Moving on, as far as the $4000 price tag... "I have heard" that for $2000 you can buy your way acros at San Ysidro, not true?

Also, "In my experience" it seems easier for someone to cross illegally and get legal here than to try to do it in Mexico. The example is all these military guys we have here that marry mexicanas. Their SOP is to smuggle them across and then get them legal.

And as for the guys commng through the gate, I guess they are all just lying to me in an effort to sucker me out of money? I watch them come through, never noticed any brown bags and they just hit the street and start walking. I will pay closer attention next time and maybe I'll learn Jack

grace59 - 11-9-2009 at 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajahowodd
The point about speaking little English, socializing only with one's kind, and not asssimilating..... Mexicans don't hold the monopoly on that. Just travel around SoCal and visit neighborhoods of Vietnamese, Koreans, Samoans, Bangladeshis. The list goes on. It's not much different than the ghettos occupied by the Irish, or the Italians a century ago. Of course last century, it was easier to enter the country. And today, there are lots of illegals in the communities I cited. Certainly not numbering as high as the Mexicans. As for never applying for papers, it's already been mentioned, that for many, it would be a futile waste of time and money. JMHO

Not just an issue in the US. I've been to plenty of places in Mexico where expats live amongst other expats, don't have any Mexican friends and don't speak a word of Spanish. They expect the Mexicans to speak English if they want the "gringo's" business. I find that these are also the people who complain when the go to the US and all the help at Wal-Mart are speaking Spanish. I think if you live in any other country that you should learn a bit about the culture and a bit of the language. Just curious, do many of the Nomads on this board speak Spanish?

DENNIS - 11-9-2009 at 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by grace59
Just curious, do many of the Nomads on this board speak Spanish?

Yeah...I get by just fine. The trick I found is to just keep talking when you get to a sticking point. I've talked for hours and never left the present tense. When I'm really stuck, I'll make up a few words.
This works with Mexicans. If I tried that in US culture, I'd be mocked and laughed at. Here, the people are too gracious to even correct my slaughtered Spanish.
So...if you don't know how to say something, say it anyway. The Mexican mind will figure it out.

alafrontera - 11-9-2009 at 01:21 PM

"Just curious, do many of the Nomads on this board speak Spanish? "

I was thinking that would make a very interesting thread/ poll all on it's own. My guess is that the "nomads" here are more interested in immersion than living in all American, English speaking isolated communities.

Yo tengo un poco espanol y estudio todos los dias, quiero mucho mas. Mi novia es mexicana y no tiene engles, makes for some interesting "converstaions" :cool:

grace59 - 11-9-2009 at 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by alafrontera
"Just curious, do many of the Nomads on this board speak Spanish? "

I was thinking that would make a very interesting thread/ poll all on it's own. My guess is that the "nomads" here are more interested in immersion than living in all American, English speaking isolated communities.

Yo tengo un poco espanol y estudio todos los dias, quiero mucho mas. Mi novia es mexicana y no tiene engles, makes for some interesting "converstaions" :cool:

Yo hablo un poco de Espanol, tambien. Yo quiero aprender mas porque algun dia yo quiero a viver en Mexico.

Like Dennis I can only speak in the present tense. Luckily my accent isn't bad and Mexican people are great about helping you learn the language. There is just so much to learn. One time I asked for directions and the man was telling me that the place I wanted was (as I understood the spanish) "on the right, three lots past the "Yonque"...could not figure out what that was...wasn't in my dictionary so I just heading in the given direction until I saw the "Yonque" and that is how you learn new words when in Mexico :bounce:

Barry A. - 11-9-2009 at 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by alafrontera
"The whole issue is terribly complex."

Oh crap, I am new here and was hoping to avoid issues like this for a while, but this one pushes my buttons

Quote:

Originally posted by Barry A.
Considering how few are actually "deported", ...

Alafrontera--------

I spent 2 years with the San Diego PD working with the border folks often---

I spent 13 years as a Federal Agent in El Centro, working with the Border Patrol most of that time, and in the field--------

I am just coming from that experience--------but that was some time ago, and things are somewhat different now, but only in the sense that the traffic has increased, I suspect, and have been told by folks still active on the border.

The complexities of the situation result in no action-------"no action" is seldom the answer, as time has proven. People broke the laws with their eyes wide open----and can/should/will suffer the consequences, all kinds of consequences. All the immigraion laws need to be inforced, or repealed, IMO. We have a problem!!!! and as always, simplification is the answer. We need to get on with it.

Barry

DENNIS - 11-9-2009 at 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by alafrontera
My guess is that the "nomads" here are more interested in immersion than living in all American, English speaking isolated communities.

Immersion is only a small part of it. A strong desire to learn the language is most important. It's more difficult as we age. We lose the talent to learn.
Another thing about immersion....one has to be selective of a chosen area which to reside in. There are areas in which we just don't belong and your new neighbors will make that clear.

Bajahowodd - 11-9-2009 at 01:40 PM

Some folks have a better ability to learn languages than others. Especially true for the young. One reason there are so many English speakers in Europe is that they start off in primary school. As for myself, a similar problem. between high school and college, I must have taken three or four years of Spanish, but getting out of the present tense (correctly) is a challenge.

alafrontera - 11-9-2009 at 01:59 PM

FWIW, I have both read and been told by language intructors that learning a second language greatly reduces the chances of contracting Alzheimer's. Something to do with the brain processes involved. My Spanish is still very poor but I knew I had turned the corner when I began to think in Spanish :cool:

DENNIS - 11-9-2009 at 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by alafrontera
but I knew I had turned the corner when I began to think in Spanish :cool:

It seems you have reversed the process. I can't even imagine how.

Bajahowodd - 11-9-2009 at 02:06 PM

Dennis- It's always easier when one is inebriated. Eliminates the self-conscious issue of fearing a mistake. :lol:

Barry A. - 11-9-2009 at 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by alafrontera
FWIW, I have both read and been told by language intructors that learning a second language greatly reduces the chances of contracting Alzheimer's. Something to do with the brain processes involved. My Spanish is still very poor but I knew I had turned the corner when I began to think in Spanish :cool:

You have accomplished something outstanding, I am thinking. My highschool spanish teacher, a Mexican, told us that he thought in Spanish, not English, even tho he spoke both fluently. My understanding is that it is difficult to make the transgression to thinking in a non-native language------but I don't really know, for sure.

Anyway, congratulations-------I envy you. I never could do that.

Barry

DENNIS - 11-9-2009 at 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajahowodd
Dennis- It's always easier when one is inebriated. Eliminates the self-conscious issue of fearing a mistake. :lol:

I quit worrying about mistakes a long time ago. Too old for that intimidation.

I was just thinking it seems more than just difficult to think in Spanish before one has learned the symbols for the concepts, the words.

Bajahowodd - 11-9-2009 at 02:27 PM

Then you could just imagine how daunting it would be to try and learn a language not based on the Latin/ Roman alphabet.

alafrontera - 11-9-2009 at 03:30 PM

Quote:

Querrás decir "no tiene ingle", fenómeno que les hará interesantes... este... ciertas actividades.

--Larry

Uh-oh, my Spanish is worse than I thought. I couldn't make sense out of that even after running it through a translator :rolleyes:

alafrontera - 11-9-2009 at 03:33 PM

OK, thanks for clearing that up with the edit

I'll try harder next time :cool:

arrowhead - 11-9-2009 at 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by alafrontera
Mi novia es mexicana y no tiene engles, makes for some interesting "converstaions" :cool:

Los novios hablan con sus ojos..y ciertos otras organos.
:rolleyes:

arrowhead - 11-9-2009 at 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS
Here, the people are too gracious to even correct my slaughtered Spanish.
So...if you don't know how to say something, say it anyway. The Mexican mind will figure it out.

That's true. Mexicans are very gracious and understanding with foreigners who try to speak Spanish. They are far less tolerant with Mexican-Americans (e.g. Chicanos born and raised in the US) whose Spanglish they consider extremely low-class. They call them "pochos" (rotten).

arrowhead - 11-9-2009 at 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by k-rico

Come on, fill us in, what do they call them?

Jeezus, won't Diana tell you anything?

grace59 - 11-9-2009 at 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by arrowhead

Quote:

Originally posted by alafrontera
Mi novia es mexicana y no tiene engles, makes for some interesting "converstaions" :cool:

Los novios hablan con sus ojos..y ciertos otras organos.
:rolleyes:

Como es romantico, pero un poco travieso tambien. :saint:

Oso - 11-9-2009 at 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by lencho

Quote:

Originally posted by alafrontera
Mi novia es mexicana y no tiene engles

Querrás decir "no tiene ingle", fenómeno que les hará interesantes... este... ciertas actividades.

--Larry

An oldie:

Tourist seeking directions asks Mexican peasant, "Do you speak English?"

Peasant whips out machete and angrily replies, "Tu que picas mis engles y yo que corto los tuyos!"

Frank - 11-9-2009 at 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by arrowhead

Quote:

I look like Im Mexican and always have to tell them Hawaiiano, lo siento. My Spanish is a work in progress.

woody with a view - 11-9-2009 at 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by arrowhead

Quote:

and that's funny. most other latin american countries think mexicans speak crappy spanish.....

Bajahowodd - 11-9-2009 at 05:19 PM

It's mostly because Mexicans are more scatalogical in their speech. Mucho mas chingas.

Von - 11-9-2009 at 05:19 PM

Nada, not your business man!

Bajahowodd - 11-9-2009 at 05:29 PM

I'm not a businessman!

DENNIS - 11-9-2009 at 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by arrowhead
They call them "pochos" (rotten).

They also call them, "Men without a country" for their practice of coming into Mexico waving Mexican flags and professing their blood relationship and deep love for their "Tierra" while turning their backs on what they really are, North Americans.