BajaNomad

Tourist Cards?

alafrontera - 11-9-2009 at 05:36 PM

Do these only apply to mainland Mexico? I never see any discussion of them on here. Certainly don't need it for TJ but what about the rest of Baja?

alafrontera - 11-9-2009 at 05:39 PM

Sorry, I meant to post this in the other thread, Border Paperwork. If someone can move it .... :biggrin:

noproblemo2 - 11-9-2009 at 05:41 PM

FM-T, is the tourist card

DENNIS - 11-9-2009 at 05:42 PM

Technically, if you're in Tijuana for over one week, you're required to have one.

noproblemo2 - 11-9-2009 at 05:44 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
Technically, if you're in Tijuana for over one week, you're required to have one.

On this I totally agree...

Bajahowodd - 11-9-2009 at 05:45 PM

School me. Is it 72 hours or a week? There's a free 7 day card. So doesn't it make sense that 72 hours is the limit without one?

DENNIS - 11-9-2009 at 05:49 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bajahowodd
School me. Is it 72 hours or a week? There's a free 7 day card. So doesn't it make sense that 72 hours is the limit without one?


I don't know anything about a free card. One can be in the free zone for one week without papers so why would they want a free card?

72 hours changed to one week around five years back.

grace59 - 11-9-2009 at 06:33 PM

As I understand it you still need the tourist card for a weeks stay in Mexico, but for that time period the FMT is free. For longer periods or if you are going outside of the free zone (below San Felipe on the Sea of Cortez) you pay somewhere around 20-26 dollars depending on the peso.

Pacifico - 11-9-2009 at 06:48 PM

We have discussed this several times on the board. The free tourist card for 7 days is questionable - it depends where you go and who you get. I have tried to get it and the immigration people look at me like I'm crazy; they have no idea what I'm talking about. In my opinion, it is just easier to get one for 180 days for about 20 bucks and then have it for 6 months. Much less hassle in the long run if you go to baja often.

shari - 11-9-2009 at 06:50 PM

I was told that as soon as you cross into Mexico, you need a tourist visa...fmt

Bajahowodd - 11-9-2009 at 06:52 PM

No es correcto.

DENNIS - 11-9-2009 at 06:59 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Pacifico
In my opinion, it is just easier to get one for 180 days for about 20 bucks and then have it for 6 months. Much less hassle in the long run if you go to baja often.


I don't know if that works. In the past, they had a Multiple Entry card which one could come and go with. I haven't even heard of that lately.
Anyway, I'm not sure the present version is for multiple entry. Something tells me it isn't.

Pacifico - 11-10-2009 at 09:23 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
Quote:
Originally posted by Pacifico
In my opinion, it is just easier to get one for 180 days for about 20 bucks and then have it for 6 months. Much less hassle in the long run if you go to baja often.


I don't know if that works. In the past, they had a Multiple Entry card which one could come and go with. I haven't even heard of that lately.
Anyway, I'm not sure the present version is for multiple entry. Something tells me it isn't.


You are probably right Dennis.....I don't think they are meant to be. Many people I know just use them for the 180 days though.

David K - 11-10-2009 at 09:31 AM

A Tourist Card (FM-T) is required for trips ANYWHERE in Mexico that last longer than 3 Days (72 hours)... OR the moment you drive south of the 'border zone' (Maneadero/ San Felipe*).

There is a FREE FM-T for visits up to 7 days. Otherwise, a paid FM-T can be made for multiple trips during a period UP to 180 days.

State tourism people have talked about a 7 day border zone exemption, but I have yet to see it in print from the federal authorities.

*Some federal forms say Mexicali

Mika - 11-10-2009 at 10:55 AM

I thought the law changed recently. I was in Baja in this past September. I flew in, so I was fine, but a friend with me got almost in trouble.

We thought he doesn't need it if he is in Ensenada because (we thought) this has been the case in past several times we were in Baja. But the official in Ensenada told us that we have to have a card at the border in TJ (no more at Ensenada or pay fine), and official made us go back to the car and show us my friend's tourist card. He still had his old tourist card he got previously which was still valid so it turned out to be OK (just didn't tell the official he left Mexico and came back again).

DENNIS - 11-10-2009 at 11:05 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Mika
(no more at Ensenada or pay fine




Yeah...They like that "fine" part. The Ensenada office seems to make their own rules. Mexico should be sooo proud of these ambasadors.
Well, maybe they are. The office has been difficult to deal with forever and I'm sure lots of complaints have been filed against them...to no avail.

MitchMan - 11-10-2009 at 02:04 PM

I like David K's post. It's definitive, mentioning State and Federal requirements. Based on that post versus the equivocation and conflicting other posts causing me some confusion and ambiguity on the issue of the requirement for an FMT, I'd like weigh in on this.

If there is a conflict/difference between State rules versus Federal rules, then the most conservative (or most restrictive) rules should be followed, not withstanding fact juristction for immigration rests with the Mexican federal government and not with Mexican state or local authorities.

David K's post states if you (non-Mexican tourist) are south of or out of the Border Zone ("BZ") you are required to have an FMT, regardless of the duration of your stay. If you are in the BZ and if you are there for only up to 72 hours, you don't need any FMT. If you are in the BZ after 3 days and up to 7 days you will need an FMT. If you are in the BZ for over 7 days you need an FMT.

The questions I still have are:
1)Am I correct about not needing any FMT document at all if in the BZ for a stay of only 3 days?

2)Can the FMT requirement for being South of or Outside of the BZ for up to 7 days be satisfied with the Free FMT?

3) Is the "Free FMT" tourist card the same as the Paid FMT with the exception of not being stamped Paid by a Mexican Bank (and therefore not actually Paid for)?

4) If in the BZ, how would federal or state authorities know how long you have been there if you drove to that location (or rode in a car as a passenger) and you didn't have your passport stamped upon entry to Mexico?

If #4 is a burden of proof issue, and Mexican law says the burden of proof is the responsibility of the tourist to prove the specific length of their stay, then whether or not the Mexican authorities independently know how long you have been there is irrelevant, and you must have proof of your stay since the Authorities are at liberty to presume whatever they want and hold you to it.

bajaguy - 11-10-2009 at 02:08 PM

Here is another wrench....is your Mexican car insurance valid with or without an FMT referring to #'s 1 and 2 of MitchMan's post???

Bajahowodd - 11-10-2009 at 02:15 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
Quote:
Originally posted by Pacifico
In my opinion, it is just easier to get one for 180 days for about 20 bucks and then have it for 6 months. Much less hassle in the long run if you go to baja often.


I don't know if that works. In the past, they had a Multiple Entry card which one could come and go with. I haven't even heard of that lately.
Anyway, I'm not sure the present version is for multiple entry. Something tells me it isn't.



No one checks for an FM-T as you enter Mexico. a 180 day card is good for 180 days. If multiple entries weren't allowed don't you think Mexican miga would have a system whereby they collected them at the gates when headed North?

And as for the car insurance thing, you will be covered if you are in compliance. For example, if you go to Rosarito for a long weekend and get three days worth of insurance. You don't need the card and you will have insurance coverage. On the other hand, if you spend seven days in Mexico and buy seven days worth of insurance and don't have the FM-T, and have an accident after the third day, good luck.

David K - 11-10-2009 at 03:17 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by MitchMan
I like David K's post. It's definitive, mentioning State and Federal requirements. Based on that post versus the equivocation and conflicting other posts causing me some confusion and ambiguity on the issue of the requirement for an FMT, I'd like weigh in on this.

If there is a conflict/difference between State rules versus Federal rules, then the most conservative (or most restrictive) rules should be followed, not withstanding fact juristction for immigration rests with the Mexican federal government and not with Mexican state or local authorities.

David K's post states if you (non-Mexican tourist) are south of or out of the Border Zone ("BZ") you are required to have an FMT, regardless of the duration of your stay. If you are in the BZ and if you are there for only up to 72 hours, you don't need any FMT. If you are in the BZ after 3 days and up to 7 days you will need an FMT. If you are in the BZ for over 7 days you need an FMT.

The questions I still have are:
1)Am I correct about not needing any FMT document at all if in the BZ for a stay of only 3 days?

2)Can the FMT requirement for being South of or Outside of the BZ for up to 7 days be satisfied with the Free FMT?

3) Is the "Free FMT" tourist card the same as the Paid FMT with the exception of not being stamped Paid by a Mexican Bank (and therefore not actually Paid for)?

4) If in the BZ, how would federal or state authorities know how long you have been there if you drove to that location (or rode in a car as a passenger) and you didn't have your passport stamped upon entry to Mexico?

If #4 is a burden of proof issue, and Mexican law says the burden of proof is the responsibility of the tourist to prove the specific length of their stay, then whether or not the Mexican authorities independently know how long you have been there is irrelevant, and you must have proof of your stay since the Authorities are at liberty to presume whatever they want and hold you to it.


1) YES,
2) YES,
3) MAYBE (haven't seen one),
4) They don't (their system is flawed since no passports or cards are checked or stamped. Checked at Guerrero Negro sometimes),
4a) YUP (If you want to prove when you entered Mexico, your toll gate receipt may work)

Again... they 72 hour BZ exemption period might be 7 days now (as Dennis says and as some officials have said)... but, I am waiting to see that in print from the federal government.

Bajahowodd - 11-10-2009 at 05:26 PM

I actually think this has become a case of overthinking an issue. As was previously posted, since we all seem confused about the "free" FM-T" and I'd guess that right now most of us are not prone to taking daytrips in TJ, getting a 180 day FM-T would seem the way to go. It costs little more than $20 and lasts for 6 months. When at the migra, if there is any question about 180 days, just tell them you are going to your place in Cabo. They don't request proof.

David K - 11-10-2009 at 06:11 PM

No confusion I think... Mexico created the free 7 day tourist card because $20+ (US) per person for a 3-5-7 day camping trip to Mexico for families was crazy... It hurt business in Baja and other parts of Mexico.

The 180 day card was FREE before mid-2000... Anything that makes going to Mexico more difficult than a U.S. vacation will steer some families to stay north of the border that would otherwise go to Mexico.

The $20 fee added to FM-Ts was one, then the next year 9/11 caused the border crossing process to slow way down, then the narco-terrorist wars, now the sucky economy...

Anything Mexico can do to make going there easier will HELP.

Adding taxes, not ending the border crime, raising rates at resorts or restaurants... all will hurt tourism.

airmech - 11-10-2009 at 08:33 PM

If you drive to Bay of LA where do they check for the tourist visa? At the checkpoints? What if you don't have one??

Pacifico - 11-10-2009 at 08:36 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by airmech
If you drive to Bay of LA where do they check for the tourist visa? At the checkpoints? What if you don't have one??


I've never been checked going to BOLA. The only place I've been checked is at the checkpoint/bug spray place just north of Guerrero Negro.

David K - 11-11-2009 at 06:56 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Pacifico
Quote:
Originally posted by airmech
If you drive to Bay of LA where do they check for the tourist visa? At the checkpoints? What if you don't have one??


I've never been checked going to BOLA. The only place I've been checked is at the checkpoint/bug spray place just north of Guerrero Negro.


Correct! The only place I have been checked is at the Baja Sur border at the Eagle Monument/ Guerrero Negro area... Was checked last July on our summer trip to Bob & Susan's and Loreto.

sancho - 11-11-2009 at 10:58 AM

This has been beat to death, if you want
all your i's and t's crossed get an fmt if
you are in Mex ANYWHERE for more than 72 hrs.,
or are carring mex auto ins for more than
72 hrs., why in the world would one want
to be involved in a traffic mishap, and try to
explain to the adjuster that some misinformed
posters on bajanomad said he didn't need
an fmt, don't let anyone suggest the free 7 day
fmt's are not available, they are or if staying
longer the 180 day

David K - 11-11-2009 at 11:53 AM

That's right!

As with ANYTHING: It is better to HAVE it and not need it, than to NEED it and not have it!!!