BajaNomad - Diving in Baja-

Diving in Baja-

Daj - 11-16-2009 at 02:00 PM

I'd like to go diving this month in Baja over Thanksgiving-
where can I do this that's relatively close to Ensenada?

How much does it cost and how long does it take to get certified?

DENNIS - 11-16-2009 at 02:10 PM

Give Dale a call. He's a good guy.

http://www.labufadoradive.com/

Bwana_John - 11-16-2009 at 02:46 PM

Cold water, big wetsuits, heavy weightbelts, surge, swell, waves, and kelp are not the best environment to learn how to scuba dive in unless you are already used to those conditions.
(El Pacifico esta no pacifico)

Get your cirt and openwater dives done at home, then come to La Bufadora.

You can get certified in a weekend, but most people do it one class a week for 8 weeks, plus your checkout "open water" dives.

[Edited on 11-16-2009 by Bwana_John]

capt. mike - 11-16-2009 at 04:01 PM

Hey Daj....Bwana Juan is right. go someplace warm like baja east cape Cabo Pulmo or La paz's La Concha and do a resort course.
thick wetsuits and cold water take the fun out of it. get your cert PADI or NAUI and i'll taake you to Mulege next summer to dive with Mick Cortez Explorers.

Love the tag...and as you know - "the present day composer refuses to die!"

DENNIS - 11-16-2009 at 05:00 PM

Cold water at the Buf? Not really. If you're swimmin' around out there and you get a little chill, just climb up on one of the icebergs and get some sun. :cool:

Bajahowodd - 11-16-2009 at 05:06 PM

It is a no-brainer that spending the time in the water to get certified is much more enjoyable way South. But, it costs time and money to get there.

Daj - 11-16-2009 at 09:53 PM

Hmmm....

thanks guys!!!!
I would totally consider going all the way down to La Paz when this job is over..
Maybe I'll do that..
Capt. Mike- pray tell- what are the Mick Cortez Explorers??

Diver - 11-16-2009 at 10:44 PM

Mick runs the Cortez Explorers dive shop in Mulege'.

There are many places to get certified in La Paz but plan to spend at least a week unless all you want is a resort certification (you have to dive with a divemaster or instructor).

arrowhead - 11-17-2009 at 12:50 AM

You should get your Scuba certification North of the Border. It really takes 50 hours of instruction to get a "C" card. About 1/3 of the time is classroom instruction; 1/3 is in a swimming pool to familiarize yourself with the equipment, equalizing and practice emergency procedures (Scuba is all about emergency procedures); and 1/3 is open water dives, with at least one beach dive and one boat dive. Try to find a NAUI school. There are PADI schools that give out "C" cards with less instruction, but not every dive operation will recognize a PADI "C" card, and they'll make you dive with an instructor. Other PADI shops will give you air with a PADI card, and don't care if you go down beyond the no decompression limits on your first dive.

Diver - 11-17-2009 at 07:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by arrowhead
.... Try to find a NAUI school. There are PADI schools that give out "C" cards with less instruction, but not every dive operation will recognize a PADI "C" card, and they'll make you dive with an instructor. Other PADI shops will give you air with a PADI card, and don't care if you go down beyond the no decompression limits on your first dive.

This is very funny !!
You are obviously Naui certified and never took a PADI class with a reputable instructor.

I was initially certified by YMCA in 1965, PADI Open Water in 1978, PADI Divemaster/Assist Instructor in 1983, Padi Instructor in 1984.
Needless to say, I have no doubts about the PADI program.
I do have doubts about "resort courses" in far away places.

capt. mike - 11-17-2009 at 08:01 AM

Daj - make it happen!!
i am with you Diver - got PADI in phx 1990, open water check out San
Carlos 1990 and PADI card accepted thus far Cayman islands, Cozumel, Cancun, Isla Mujeres, La Paz, Cabo, PSFO (well... to tell you the truth Genaro never asked!!)

...."no more credit from the liquor store...." :no:

dean miller - 11-17-2009 at 10:06 AM

Gosh!

"Diver" & Captain Mike you certainly know alot about dive courses!

Just what is NAUI & PADI? and how do they differ?

Diver - 11-17-2009 at 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by dean miller
Gosh!

"Diver" & Captain Mike you certainly know alot about dive courses!

Just what is NAUI & PADI? and how do they differ?

I have a feeling that you know the answer to that question better than we do !! :lol:

I do know that the coursework and required dives are very similar between both organizations.
Most important is a good dive instructor.

Ken Bondy - 11-17-2009 at 10:59 AM

My basic and O/W certification was with NAUI, but I have never heard of a PADI C-card being refused by any shop or operator anywhere. I did some photo work for PADI years ago and thought the people I dealt with were very competent. I got my Nitrox certification a few years ago from SSI and thought that they did a good job with that. I think all the major certifying agencies are about the same, and as Diver said, the most important thing is your instructor, regardless of the agency.

[Edited on 11-17-2009 by Ken Bondy]

dean miller - 11-17-2009 at 11:25 AM

I do know that the coursework and required dives are very similar between both organizations.
Most important is a good dive instructor.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I would like to know a little more on this subject you and others who have posted with such great authority

You identify your self as "Diver" and a "Diving Instructor"...so instruct me and others...

Therefore explain the difference in the course work and required dives

What about the Instructor? How would a rank novice identify what constitues a "good instructor?"

sdm

Ken Bondy - 11-17-2009 at 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by dean miller
What about the Instructor? How would a rank novice identify what constitues a "good instructor?"
sdm

Obviously the "rank novice" will have no idea of what constitutes a "good instructor", or whether or not he/she has one. One has to rely on the reputation of the instructor, experience, age, facility, opinions of other divers who know the instructor, stuff like that. Kinda like most everything else in life I guess. ++Ken++

PS dean you seem to have an edge to your questions. What is your agenda here? I don't have one, but I am curious as to what axes are being ground here???

[Edited on 11-17-2009 by Ken Bondy]

arrowhead - 11-17-2009 at 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Diver
This is very funny !!
You are obviously Naui certified and never took a PADI class with a reputable instructor.

I was initially certified by YMCA in 1965, PADI Open Water in 1978, PADI Divemaster/Assist Instructor in 1983, Padi Instructor in 1984.
Needless to say, I have no doubts about the PADI program.
I do have doubts about "resort courses" in far away places.

That's true, Diver, I never took a PADI course. But there is a reason. I'm so ancient, that PADI was just a nascent organization. I actually got certified by Los Angeles County first, but I also have a NAUI advanced open water card.

But back to the main subject, a PADI "C" card is now an 18-hour 3-day course. Supposedly the PADI "C" card is restricted to PADI affiliated dive shops and you have to dive with an instructor, and even then you have depth limitations. I know when you get out of the US, those rules aren't followed.

In Los Angeles County, the ordinance is that you need to complete a 27-hour dive course, including at least four open water dives to get a card that will get you air.

http://lascuba.com/pdf/lacoord.pdf

If anybody cares about the history of the "C" card. It all started in Los Angeles County when some professional divers got together and formed NAUI. This emerged out of the Los Angeles County regulations that required ceritification to get air, because there were too many scuba diving casualties. Los Angeles County also issued its own "C" card to divers. PADI was formed later, by some people in the scuba equipment manufacturing industry (US Divers), and their goal was to commercialize scuba diving and bring it to the masses. They streamlined the certification process, but put "strings" on the divers which required them to go through their affiliates and dive with instructors, until divers got more advanced training.

k-rico - 11-17-2009 at 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bwana_John
Cold water, big wetsuits, heavy weightbelts, surge, swell, waves, and kelp are not the best environment to learn how to scuba dive in unless you are already used to those conditions.

I got certified at La Jolla shores via the YMCA in La Jolla. Great place to learn.

After classroom and pool training it was swim out through the breakers (in the winter BTW) with all your gear, and deal with the low vis, breaking waves, and surge.

When diving the Great Barrier Reef, the divemaster noticed I got certified in San Diego and he said, "Oh you guys learned in cold water and the surf, good divers, you're going to help me out." I got to lead the other divers after the divemaster explained the route. Nobody was kicking up silt in my face and I was the first one to spot the sharks.

So maybe learning in tough conditions when you have an instructor looking after you is a good idea. I've been in many tropical places diving, after learning in San Diego, with all the heavy gear swimming out and back through the surf, every place else was a piece of cake.

N2Baja - 11-17-2009 at 01:24 PM

Daj, What has been posted here is true; the most important thing to consider when getting certified is not the agency, but the instructor. There are lots of resources available to you to help you make your decision. Go to Dive Shops in your area and talk to people who work there and to the customers. Call local Dive Clubs. There are lots of message boards like Scubaboard.com, TheDecoStop.com or diver.net that you can ask. Divers love to talk about diving and will gladly share their knowledge with you!

Arrowhead, Diver, Ken and Capt. Mike are right on! And it bears repeating. It takes 50 hours of instruction to get properly certified. I was fortunate to have a real hard nosed instructor. He never let us slide by with anything. If a skill wasn't performed correctly, he'd have us do it over again and again until we got it. While I may have been cursing him during class, I can't thank him enough now. You need to know how to get yourself out of trouble in an environment that you aren't able to breathe in, and you just can't get that knowledge in a weekend.

Diving is one of the most incredible experiences and if you're comfortable in the water you'll love it! Get the proper training, Daj. Your life really may depend on it.

Keep us posted on your experience!

Ken Bondy - 11-17-2009 at 05:00 PM

Quote:

That's arguable Bwana John. If you learn in those conditions, you will know how to handle them and anything else will be easy. I got certified in those California conditions and now, after 2000+ logged dives all over the world, cold and warm water, I feel learning in CA served me well. OTOH if you get certified in a quickie warmwater location, you will have to learn everything all over again if you want to dive in the kelp in cold water. On balance I think learning to dive in cold water conditions is best if you can.

[Edited on 11-18-2009 by Ken Bondy]

Diver - 11-17-2009 at 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ken Bondy
.... if you get certified in a quickie warmwater location, you will have to learn everything all over again if you want to dive in the kelp in cold water. On balance I think learning to dive in cold water conditions is best if you can.

Very good point.
I learned in warm water and had to make the conversion to dry suits and band masks at one time; I hate hoods !
And who ever said commercial diving was fun !??
*#$%@* changing zinks on oil platform legs at 120' all day !

Ken Bondy - 11-17-2009 at 05:23 PM

Diver
I have enormous respect for you hardhat guys!!! You really know what you are doing!!!

I hate hoods too, but I learned to hate them less a few months ago. I suited up for a dive in Morro Bay (water temp about 52F) and realized that I had forgotten my hood. Macho me, decided to go ahead and do it hoodless. After 45 minutes in that water without a hood I was damn near paralyzed. Even with a drysuit covering the rest of me. Now I believe that old adage about losing most of your body heat out of your head. It's true, and if I ever again forget my hood in those conditions I will sit that one out

++Ken++

Diver - 11-17-2009 at 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by dean miller
I do know that the coursework and required dives are very similar between both organizations.
Most important is a good dive instructor.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I would like to know a little more on this subject you and others who have posted with such great authority

You identify your self as "Diver" and a "Diving Instructor"...so instruct me and others...

Therefore explain the difference in the course work and required dives

What about the Instructor? How would a rank novice identify what constitues a "good instructor?"

sdm

OK Dean, I will be your "grasshopper". :lol:

From what I know about course work, both organizations are very similar in what they offfer and what they require to reach various levels of certification (Advanced Open Water for example). The difference that I note is that some of these course specialties are required by Naui where PADI gives you a choice as to which specialties you will take. Some would say that this makes Naui a better certification and assuming that a PADI student made poor choices for their specialties, this could be true, at least for the type and location of the student's diving.

AS for instructors, what I think makes a good instructor included the following;
1. Certified in all areas of teaching
2. Experienced in all areas of teaching
3. A good communicator and leader/teacher
4. Someone who will spend the time you need - to make you feel comfortable and to make sure you are safe.

As an assitant instructor, I used to get the ladies that were afraid to put their face in the water and often had them loving life at 30' a few weeks later. Someone who enjoys this satisfaction and is informed enough to ensure safety would be my first choice for an instructor.

So how did I do, "master" ?? :biggrin:

Ken, not sure about the respect part; I was doing a LOT of drinking back in those day !! :lol:

.

[Edited on 11-18-2009 by Diver]

Ken Bondy - 11-17-2009 at 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DiverKen, not sure about the respect part; I was doing a LOT of drinking back in those day !! :lol:

[Edited on 11-18-2009 by Diver]

You survived.....I'll drink to that!!

Wiles - 11-17-2009 at 07:05 PM

First of all, a big shout out to my Alma Mater NASDS OWII.

In the early eighties I crewed on the Dive Vessel Atlantis out of 22nd St. Landing, San Pedro for several years.

NASDS & NAUI frogs were better prepared after certification than the PADI frogs. Nothing against PADI instructors or organization (friends with many of them).

Kelp diving is unique and challenging and one of the greatest experiences a diver could ever have. On a calm day with no current and awesome visibility you just couldn't beat it.

Those were the days for sure. Diving at SBI I held the boat record for the fastest time limiting out on abalone (4). Two minutes and thirty-seven seconds from the time I left the deck til I was back on the swim step. Greens.

And don't get me started on the hub cap reds we would get in the kelp beds at San Nic.

k-rico - 11-17-2009 at 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Wiles

Kelp diving is unique and challenging and one of the greatest experiences a diver could ever have. On a calm day with no current and awesome visibility you just couldn't beat it.

Kelp diving is fun. Looking up from the bottom into a kelp forest with high vis and a bright sun is magical. Tangles are a hassle tho.

Wreck diving is my favorite. I doubt I'll make it to Truk lagoon and I regret that.

k-rico - 11-17-2009 at 07:28 PM

BTW, I always liked diving Cabo. Short easy boat ride and the deep water fish are schooling right off shore, close to the tropicals. That's unique.

The sand fall is fun too.

DENNIS - 11-17-2009 at 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by k-rico
I doubt I'll make it to Truk lagoon and I regret that.

Maybe a good trip for your ashes.

C205Driver - 11-17-2009 at 10:25 PM

. . .Only MY opinion, but, I have dove a little & did LaBuff. . .On 1st dive only 5 of 7 divers made it to the bottom (others got lost in the LOW VIS & went back up topside) . . Then . . . in the excitement of the momement & sucking air real hard the others got low on air . . .SO it was a VERY short & uneventful dive. . .If you are a good diver & go with other good divers it at best might be so-so. . .I would suggest Sea Of Cortez, but, even it is getting cold right now. Have multiple dives out of PSFO, Mulege & La Paz. Different days will always get different results & different species but the Hammerhead Shark dive, Ferry dive & the Los Islotes dives are recommended by me. . I'v dove with Mulege Divers under 3 different owners; different dives at different times but, still noteworthy(Had one dive where we did not move more than 10' as there was SOOOOO much to see). . .No coral but rather volcanic underwater. Watch out for scorpion fish !!! DO NOT waste your time diving Bahia de Concepcion unless you enjoy 4' vis. . . Again, only one divers opinion. . .

mtgoat666 - 11-18-2009 at 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ken Bondy

Quote:

That's arguable Bwana John.

Ha! I learned how to dive in cold Puget Sound, in an ill-fitting (non-custom) wet suit (no dry suit). Lots of us learned in cold water and crappy (ill-fitting) wetsuits. It builds character to feel a surge of cold water everytime you turn your head or stretch your arm :lol:

Aint no big deal to learn in cold water, you just need to get out there and learn.

Skipjack Joe - 11-18-2009 at 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ken Bondy
I suited up for a dive in Morro Bay (water temp about 52F) and realized that I had forgotten my hood. Macho me, decided to go ahead and do it hoodless. After 45 minutes in that water without a hood I was damn near paralyzed......
++Ken++

Your episode reminded me of a near disaster my roomate had at Pillar Point a very long time ago.

Like you, he decided to try scuba diving without a hood. In fact, he dove with only the wetsuit bottom. His diving partner talked him into going against his better judgment. Nick started to feel real bad maybe 15 minutes into the dive. He tried to get the weight belt off but, he later told me, his fingers felt like claws, unable to grasp anything. He couldn't undo the buckle. He was now in a life and death situation and knew his only chance was to make the shore. The beach was too far away but the rocky headlands were within reach. When he got there he let the waves throw him up onto the rocks and musselbeds and somehow held on. He was a cut up mess by the time I saw him but at least he was alive. The water temperatures here are usually in the 42-48 range. Pillar Pt is where the Mavericks surf contest takes place now during the winter months.

Ken Bondy - 11-18-2009 at 11:24 AM

Scary stuff Igor. Classic hypothermia. The Navy publishes a table that relates survival time to water temperature, assuming no thermal protection. In the 40s it's just a matter of a few minutes.

Skipjack Joe - 11-18-2009 at 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ken Bondy
Classic hypothermia.

Yes, and because he wasn't eurythermal.

eurythermal , eurythermic, eurythermous:

adj (of organisms) able to tolerate a wide range of temperatures in the environment

An interesting side note to this story. The diving 'partner' stayed near Nick during this whole episode but never actually helped much. I think he was afraid of Nick grabbing him in a panic death grip and both going down. Either way he was no help according to Nick. The lesson to be learned is to pick a partner you can really trust.

I really don't know what NAUI recommends to do under such circumstances. I was certified by NAUI at one time and we never covered stuff like this in class.