BajaNomad - Lots for Sell in Bahia Concepcion - Requeson

Lots for Sell in Bahia Concepcion - Requeson

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Bajahowodd - 11-24-2009 at 03:14 PM

Or, as the pdf brochure states, pricing from the high $500k up to $2mil. wonder how long the line is?

noproblemo2 - 11-24-2009 at 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajahowodd
Or, as the pdf brochure states, pricing from the high $500k up to $2mil. wonder how long the line is?

Well I know we aren't in line!!!!

David K - 11-24-2009 at 04:44 PM

Is Muñoz behind this?

fishbuck - 11-24-2009 at 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by David K
Is Muñoz behind this?

He may have a "hand" in this!

Bajahowodd - 11-24-2009 at 04:48 PM

And......I have a bridge for sale.

Skipjack Joe - 11-24-2009 at 04:55 PM

He's waiting for the prices to come down. :lol:

A couple of turtle carcasses should help adjust them nicely. :lol:

Mexicorn - 11-24-2009 at 05:22 PM

Let me know when "Virgins " is up for sale?
I have a MASTER planned community for Punta Banda!

DENNIS - 11-24-2009 at 05:24 PM

:lol:

WOW...Tough crowd. :lol:

lots for sell

Loretana - 11-24-2009 at 05:27 PM

Nomads,

Dontcha just love it when folks who have never contributed to the Board make their first post a real estate for "sell" pitch?

This was obviously written by a non-native english speaker.....

Not the right neighborhood to be speculating in, IMHO.
:rolleyes:

[Edited on 11-25-2009 by Loretana]

roundtuit - 11-24-2009 at 06:36 PM

Wikipedia ------- bullbutter :barf:

Baja&Back - 11-24-2009 at 06:53 PM

Yep, that's most of the area Munoz has illegally fenced and is trying to convince the world that he owns thru "squatter's rights" (or maybe Hitler's "Big Lie" technique).
:lol:

capt. mike - 11-25-2009 at 07:59 AM

who's this Munoz guy? he owns requeson beach?
isn't that close to santa barbara which was a planned development that stalled?

pompano - you know this skinny - ??? what's the real deal?

Bajahowodd - 11-25-2009 at 12:42 PM

Poof! The original post is gone. :lol:

And for my next trick........

norte - 11-25-2009 at 01:38 PM

Another newbie notch

vandenberg - 11-25-2009 at 03:32 PM

Lately, as a newbie, you should first get yourself outfitted with a Rhino skin, before entering the fray.
Now there is a new Nomad enterprise.

[Edited on 11-25-2009 by vandenberg]

Bajahowodd - 11-25-2009 at 03:33 PM

Just because the original post is gone, doesn't mean we can't continue. The pdf that was linked for the development had three people listed with e-mail addresses and two of them with US phone numbers. Below is the info on the local realtor. Just wonder if any of you know her.

Realtor
Nellie Hutchison
Dorado Properties Loreto
Cell USA: 602 628 2920
Cell Mex: 613 114 3926
nellie@doradoloreto.com
www.doradoloreto.com

vandenberg - 11-25-2009 at 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajahowodd
Just because the original post is gone, doesn't mean we can't continue. The pdf that was linked for the development had three people listed with e-mail addresses and two of them with US phone numbers. Below is the info on the local realtor. Just wonder if any of you know her.

Realtor
Nellie Hutchison
Dorado Properties Loreto
Cell USA: 602 628 2920
Cell Mex: 613 114 3926
nellie@doradoloreto.com
www.doradoloreto.com

Will give Obama a run for his money in the narcissistic department. :biggrin:

tripledigitken - 11-25-2009 at 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajahowodd
...... Just wonder if any of you know her.

Realtor
Nellie Hutchison
Dorado Properties Loreto
Cell USA: 602 628 2920
Cell Mex: 613 114 3926
nellie@doradoloreto.com
www.doradoloreto.com

Read her blog from time to time..............Seems like a nice lady. She is one who has riden the ups and downs of the Real Estate market in Loreto.

Ken

KAT54 - 11-25-2009 at 03:53 PM

Is Munoz tied to Nellie the realator in Loreto?
Is Munoz trying to take more land?
Is this a real sale?
Will the title pass the test for title insurance?
Does Munoz have his hand in all land transactions?

Skeet/Loreto - 11-25-2009 at 04:39 PM

Again: Please, Please , Please do not make any commitment until you have contacted the Notoria Miguel Izquiredo in La Paz.

Skeet

mpc - 11-25-2009 at 06:53 PM

Amala has nothing to do with Munoz. This is a private property that the company has owned since 1971 and is fully fenced. The complete area from Armenta to Requeson is owned by the same company. We have title insurance from First American Title Insurance Company and Stewart Title Insurance company. Nobody involved in the project has anything to do with Munoz. If anyone ones to know more about the development you can email directly at info@amalabaja.com

By the way nice way to treat a newbie....

norte - 11-25-2009 at 07:34 PM

I guess that means you would not sign up again.

Hope all goes wel with your property

DENNIS - 11-25-2009 at 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mpc

By the way nice way to treat a newbie....

Probably wasn't very nice, was it. Problem is, you present property for sale in a war zone and viewers are smart enough to be defensive. Don't fault them for that.

In the meantime, mpc, welcome to Nomad. It's a tough crowd but, if what you have for sale stands the Nomad test, you'll never have a better recommendation.

[Edited on 11-26-2009 by DENNIS]

Crusoe - 11-25-2009 at 07:51 PM

Please explain to us about your water source and how you intend to deal with the sewage issue. Thank you.

woody with a view - 11-25-2009 at 07:57 PM

i don't think mpc cares about your water or sewage. mpc cares about your money!

capt. mike - 11-26-2009 at 08:41 AM

"We have title insurance from First American Title Insurance Company and Stewart Title Insurance company"

sorry - but this begs the question - why would you have / need 2 different title insurance policies? why PAY for 2? a single title report on this property could be very expensive. sorry - i just have never heard of 2 title policies in evidence simultaneously.

now i have done an updated title report and paid for it but that is not an insurance policy in and of itself.
not knocking you - i'd love to buy a lote if i had the scratch.

mpc - 11-26-2009 at 09:04 AM

Thanks for the replies, I do intend to sign up again and I will answer the questions posted:

- Crusoe: for water source the only viable option is a water desal plant (reverse osmosis) that can support the water requirements of the development. We already have the design of the plant which will be in operation once we really need it which we estimate will not be for the next 18 months. Regarding sewage we have all the studies done regarding peak rainfall and runoff from storms so we make the required retaining walls and infrastructure to control it. This changed a bit since Jimena dropped a lot more water than any other storm in the last 100 years so we are adjusting for more Jimenas in the future. All homes will have independent septyc systems and we are evaluating having a centralized water treatment plant. I can add more detail to specific questions.

- Woody in ob- I think you will be surprised on how committed we are with the area and creating and amazing development that leads the way in developments in areas such as Bahia Concepcion. We are not only in it for the money and all though it is a business it is not the ultimate goal. Just to give you and idea we have set up the Amala Foundation in partnership with the Ocean Foundation and Pro-peninsula in order to commit a percentage of our sales and operating income for environmental efforts in the peninsula. This partnership helped us set up the guidelines for a true green sustainable development before we could work with these two great institutions . We have the chance to do it right and we will.

-Capt. Mike- The reason we have title insurance policies with First American and Stewart Title is that initially we got a policy for all the property which was done with Stewart (couple of years ago-500 acres). Secondly we insured a 100 acres parcel with First American that is where Amala is located and was part of the original property. We wanted to show that the property title was free and clear by the two standards of the industry since as you know there has been some people pretending to be owners and trying to sell the land. Luckily enough people have had so bad experiences that no one buys without extreme caution and title insurance.

I will keep posting info about the project and about what is happening in the bay. There are big plans for the area and as far as I know most of the developments are people that want to preserve this magnificent place as much as possible and develop in a less intrusive fashion than what has been done in baja. Any suggestions would be very appreciated since this crowd represents what baja is all about.
Gracias,

mpc

woody with a view - 11-26-2009 at 09:14 AM

well then, let's hope it's done right. even though i hope it doesn't get done for my own SELFISH reasons.

vandenberg - 11-26-2009 at 09:36 AM

Can't think of a worse place in all of Baja for a desal plant.
The discharge into the bay would be catastrophic to marine plant and wildlife. Unless they can think of another way to get rid of the plants by products, a plan like this is totally unfeasable. Even the Mexican government knows better then that, right ?

Donjulio - 11-26-2009 at 09:52 AM

Mpc what is the current permit status? Thanks

Paula - 11-26-2009 at 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by mpc
Thanks for the replies, I do intend to sign up again and I will answer the questions posted:

- Crusoe: for water source the only viable option is a water desal plant (reverse osmosis) that can support the water requirements of the development. We already have the design of the plant which will be in operation once we really need it which we estimate will not be for the next 18 months. Regarding sewage we have all the studies done regarding peak rainfall and runoff from storms so we make the required retaining walls and infrastructure to control it. This changed a bit since Jimena dropped a lot more water than any other storm in the last 100 years so we are adjusting for more Jimenas in the future. All homes will have independent septyc systems and we are evaluating having a centralized water treatment plant. I can add more detail to specific questions.

- Woody in ob- I think you will be surprised on how committed we are with the area and creating and amazing development that leads the way in developments in areas such as Bahia Concepcion. We are not only in it for the money and all though it is a business it is not the ultimate goal. Just to give you and idea we have set up the Amala Foundation in partnership with the Ocean Foundation and Pro-peninsula in order to commit a percentage of our sales and operating income for environmental efforts in the peninsula. This partnership helped us set up the guidelines for a true green sustainable development before we could work with these two great institutions . We have the chance to do it right and we will.

-Capt. Mike- The reason we have title insurance policies with First American and Stewart Title is that initially we got a policy for all the property which was done with Stewart (couple of years ago-500 acres). Secondly we insured a 100 acres parcel with First American that is where Amala is located and was part of the original property. We wanted to show that the property title was free and clear by the two standards of the industry since as you know there has been some people pretending to be owners and trying to sell the land. Luckily enough people have had so bad experiences that no one buys without extreme caution and title insurance.

I will keep posting info about the project and about what is happening in the bay. There are big plans for the area and as far as I know most of the developments are people that want to preserve this magnificent place as much as possible and develop in a less intrusive fashion than what has been done in baja. Any suggestions would be very appreciated since this crowd represents what baja is all about.
Gracias,

mpc

It doesn't sound like Muñoz, but it sure sounds a lot like Butterfield and Grogan

Don Alley - 11-26-2009 at 12:25 PM

Water, water, water...

Everyone always talks about the water, or the lack of it.

Be the scarce resource that washes away the greenwash and makes a big lie of all the "sustainabilty" claims is not the water, it's the lack of people in rural BCS.

Are the rich folk you sell to going to build and operate your desal plant? Or did you find local Mexican folks hanging out in Mulege, drinking their Modelos, with engineering degrees, ready, willing and able to build and operate the plant?

Fact is, you'll have to import workers for almost everything. And those workers will be followed by even more people, laborers, cooks, even burglars and drug dealers. None of them will be driving a new Prius or recycling their toilet water. And there will be 10 or more of them for each unit built.

We've seen what runs downhill from these so-called green developments.

KAT54 - 11-26-2009 at 12:25 PM

Yes, are the profepa permits in place?
Who owns the concession?
There is a real problem at Benaventura because of this.
Are the roads in?
Is there water to the lots yet?
Where is the desal plant located?
Where will the salty water go that isn't used?
What will be the price of the desal water per gallon?
Do you have the "clubhouse built yet?
Is there a show house to look at?

Crusoe - 11-26-2009 at 02:51 PM

It will be a hard sell in these econmic times to try to market $500k, starting price, lots on undeveloped hardscrabble. A desal plant would kill almost all the marine life in southern portion Conception Bay very quickly. We will all just have to wait and see. Don't expect much!! ++C++

dtbushpilot - 11-26-2009 at 08:26 PM

Tough crowd......dt

mpc - 11-27-2009 at 09:08 AM

Water & Desal- desal plants do post an environmental hazard based on two things; their size and the way the by-product is managed. We decided to use a desal plant after evaluating other possible options and consulting with both experts in the subject and non profit groups that evaluate the environmental impact of such activities. The way our system will work is that the water will be extracted through a well, salt water fed to the plant has 30,000 ppm (parts per million of solids), three parts of salt water give you one part of fresh water. The by-product is exactly the same water but has now 50,000 ppm of solids. This is then injected to another well where the salt is slowly reabsorbed to the environment causing no contamination at all. The size of our plant will be fairly small and the estimated cost per gallon will be around half a cent which is comparable to the price that would be paid if you had municipal services.

Permit status- currently we have the subdivision authorized and the “uso de suelo”. We are in the process with our environmental study (MIA) and construction permits will follow.
We have an application for 4.5 km of concession of the federal zone in the works. It is significantly easier and less expensive to have the concession if you own the adjacent land which we do.
There is one road to the entrance of the property but the rest of the roads will be built once the permits are in place.
Water to the lots is not yet available, all services and utilities are expected to be in place in the next 18 to 24 months.
Floor plans of the units + the club house will be available soon.

The price stated on the presentation ($500 to $2M) is not ideal for this economic situation and that is why we have two lots for sell at a very significant discount (around 6 dollars a square foot). We have no hurry and we know the market will come back. For us is just about finding the right buyer that appreciates what we have and wants to be part of something as unique as the bay itself.

Additional note: we all know that Bahia Concepcion is one of those very unique places in the world and we all wish that progress will not change this beautiful place into another cabo, acapulco......well our view is that indeed progress is unavoidable but we have the chance to do it right and develop the area in way that you can enjoy the bay almost the same way we do it now. That is one of the reasons that in Amala less than 10% of the property will be built on, that is why all our water front lots are more than 100 meters away form the water, that is why all the unit locations within the lots depend on the vegetation and slope of each particular lot. Our number one priority is to preserve the place and create an experience of being in nature, non intrusive, peaceful..... Other developers in the area share this philosophy and this can be done right. It will never be the baja of the past but it can be done very well. This will obviously mean more people, more workers, more jobs, less poverty and we hope we can bring pride to the locals about what they have and show them that their best bet is to preserve this paradise, it is the most important asset they will ever have. This is no Loreto Bay, I think those guys had the right idea but got to play with people that do not care about environmental issues. Anyway they did put Loreto in the map and did a lot of good for the community. I could not dislike the project it itself more but they were pioneers and that has a lot of value.

If you need any additional info email at info@amalabaja.com

Gracias,

k-rico - 11-27-2009 at 09:40 AM

How about a nice RV park until you find the very rich buyers you're looking for? That way folks can enjoy the area and the locals can benefit from the income until you turn it into an exclusive area that 99.99999% of the people won't be able to enjoy.

wilderone - 11-27-2009 at 09:47 AM

mpc - I'll just come out and say it - you sound just like the jerks who developed Loreto Bay and totally ruined that bay and it's immediate region for all eternity. Your so-called plan is exactly the same - your rhetoric is exactly the same. You say you appreciate people who want to preserve Baja's magnificence and then out of the other side of your mouth, you state you want to develop it all the way to conception Bay.

Again, I will do everything I can to discourage buyers and prevent your development. I represent the people who want Baja to remain as the very special ecological treasure it is - for everyone - not just a few people who want to own it, and people like you who want to profit.

Go ahead - game on.

KAT54 - 11-27-2009 at 10:53 AM

So wilderone you are saying that you
just want to use someone elses property for free?
You do not have any money?
This family says they own this land?
You would rather just abuse the land with you waste and trash and cars?
Can we come to your house and park on your front lawn?
Can we dump our waste there?

Donjulio - 11-27-2009 at 12:12 PM

If your environmental study isn't finished yet you don't have your F3 permit which means you can't legally sell. So whats up?

Diver - 11-27-2009 at 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Donjulio
If your environmental study isn't finished yet you don't have your F3 permit which means you can't legally sell. So whats up?

Huh ???

You don't need an environmental study to get an FM3.
You can buy or sell without an FM3.
You can also buy/sell without an environmental study.
We've done all of the above.

Donjulio - 11-27-2009 at 12:21 PM

Diver - The subdivision and permit status is F1, F2, F3 and F4. You have to be at F3 before you can legally offer the development for sale. With F4 then you can legally transfer title. Has nothing to do with FM3 or immigration.

wilderone - 11-27-2009 at 12:55 PM

KAT54 - no. no. no. no. no. no.

capt. mike - 11-27-2009 at 01:11 PM

wilderone - what i like about you is that you never straddle the fence!! :lol:

wilderone - 11-27-2009 at 01:15 PM

"Additional note: we all know that Bahia Concepcion is one of those very unique places in the world and we all wish that progress will not change this beautiful place into another cabo, acapulco......well our view is that indeed progress is unavoidable but we have the chance to do it right and develop the area in way that you can enjoy the bay almost the same way we do it now. That is one of the reasons that in Amala less than 10% of the property will be built on, that is why all our water front lots are more than 100 meters away form the water, that is why all the unit locations within the lots depend on the vegetation and slope of each particular lot. Our number one priority is to preserve the place and create an experience of being in nature, non intrusive, peaceful..... Other developers in the area share this philosophy and this can be done right. It will never be the baja of the past but it can be done very well. This will obviously mean more people, more workers, more jobs, less poverty and we hope we can bring pride to the locals about what they have and show them that their best bet is to preserve this paradise, it is the most important asset they will ever have."

Essentially, what you're talking about is what it was - an RV park, campground. $10/night.
You want to "create an experience of being in nature." Duh. That's what's there now - and that's what it was and will be if you leave it alone. What you want to is to create an experience of Miami in the desert.
Put in your desal plant - get the building permits; get the environmental impact report. Then hang out the for-sale sign. Put your money where your mouth is.

And who do you think these buyers are going to be? You think people are going to spend that much money for a part-time vacation getaway? What? No golf course? No spa? no swimming pool, wellness center, wine cellar, jetski rental, marina, science lab, fishing fleet, turbine generators? No town, no groceries, no taco shop, no restaurants, medical clinic, air strip. Long drive from any US border. You think people are just going to sit on their deck and drink tequila all day watching the trucks drive by on Hwy. 1? Why do you think people will want to buy your properties when there are already so many on the market?

KAT54 - 11-27-2009 at 01:22 PM

So this is an illegal development since the enviromrntal report is not completed?
Are they at F3?
Why dont they have the concession if they owned the property since 1971?
Can not anyone just go to the beach and camp for free?
Can they stop you?
Can they charge you?
I thought the beaches were free?
Can they fence the place without a concession?
If you buy a lot will there be campers in front of the houses?
Is this the real reason the houses are supposed to be so far back fronm the water?

A sad day on the Bay?

Sharksbaja - 11-27-2009 at 01:42 PM

I concur with the WildOne. The notion that the project can develop concurrent with the stagnant market indicates to me that these folks need not money but they need more. Why, I don't get it. At what cost to the area?
Is it just something that has to be done for the betterment of just a few aristocrats?? These people NEED another figgin' development in paradise?

The saddest thing I see is the permanent destruction of another memorable and special place. You put that crap in there and it won't be special to anyone but you and and the few you fooled.

Believe me, the more you develop the beautiful coves and coastline the more you change the demographics. Before long the whole dynamic changes bringing with it a crowd not familiar with the way it was. Changes that are un-Baja.

One thang for sure, you won't see me or my family spending one thin dime on your unnecessary project or even go near . In fact there are thousand of regular Baja travelers and visitors that the net result may be actually a negative for the area in terms of economics. I can't see that future crtowd spending cash anywhere but there.

Besides, who wants a beautiful coastal retreat without a beautiful golf course to water with brownwater. :mad:

Fore........

Packoderm - 11-27-2009 at 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by wilderone
mpc - I'll just come out and say it - you sound just like the jerks who developed Loreto Bay and totally ruined that bay and it's immediate region for all eternity. Your so-called plan is exactly the same - your rhetoric is exactly the same. You say you appreciate people who want to preserve Baja's magnificence and then out of the other side of your mouth, you state you want to develop it all the way to conception Bay.

Again, I will do everything I can to discourage buyers and prevent your development. I represent the people who want Baja to remain as the very special ecological treasure it is - for everyone - not just a few people who want to own it, and people like you who want to profit.

Go ahead - game on.

I think the above sums it up in a nutshell. They want to make a buck. What will eventually end up happening is the same as what happened on California's (U.S.) coastline - or Rosarito for that matter. Any public access that will exist will be small, crowded with yahoos, and not safe for camping. California's coastline is not worth the 90 mile drive it takes to get there. It belongs to somebody else, so I never go there. The same scenario repeating itself will be set just fine for the privileged few.

Well, if success somehow arises, the story won't be exactly like that of the U.S.'s California. Just look at Playa del Carmen for an example: First secure ownership. Then build like crazy. They'll need to import many workers from the mainland. Work will run out for some reason or another. The public will then need to alleviate the crime, drugs, and poverty. The place will become an armpit, so the developers will set their sites on the next new and exciting development possibility. For some reason that escapes me all this is inevitable.

Packoderm - 11-27-2009 at 01:57 PM

"The notion that the project can develop concurrent with the stagnant market indicates to me that these folks need not money but they need more."

Spot on.

Skeet/Loreto - 11-27-2009 at 01:58 PM

Oh! if Baja Patty was still alive!!
She would Shoot everyone of thos Blood Sucking Developers if they got any where close to her Beloved Bahia.

Donjulio - 11-27-2009 at 07:16 PM

I have beachfront lots with transferable title (F4), water, sewer, electic already in, streets paved and has signs, fire hydrants and steetlights. 9 miles south of town and even closer to the airport. Can't sell them for $120,000 much less half a million 1000 feet from the water. Wow.

Crusoe - 11-27-2009 at 11:25 PM

HOORAY.....GO WILD ONE!! ++C++ :bounce:

mpc - 11-28-2009 at 08:56 AM

Very interesting how some people discredit things without knowing anything about them. All criticism is accepted and you are all entitled to your point of view. But if you wanted anything more than venting your anger you would first be more knowledgeable about what we are all about and ask serious questions about the hows and the whys of the project.

First and most important Don Julio your comment about f1,f2...is absolutely wrong. The environmental study is needed before you even make a road to the property but has nothing to do with selling or not lots. Do you think discrediting other projects will bring buyers to yours? I actually hope you are successful with your project and I am sure in time when things get better and if you have the right product you will. If you want to chat directly to share some experience I would be happy to do so, maybe I can tell you how we sold the first lots at the cited prices, maybe you are targeting the wrong folks.....

Beaches are and will always be accessible to everyone and no one can charge you or deny access to them. That is if they do not have a concession for renting RV's on the beach which then ruins the place for everyone. Try going to requeson beach most of the year and you will be lucky if you get a spot of sand between all the RV's. Or most of the beaches for that matter, cocos? It is like a parking lot of a football game. Is that environmentally friendly? Is that even fair to everyone that wants to enjoy Baja? Is that even pretty???????? The notion that doing nothing will keep the bay beautiful and pristine is ridiculous. Look what has happened now, with no regulation whatsoever anyone can do anything in the bay, people illegally fish everywhere, people throw out their trash whenever they feel it is convenient (how about behind posada concepcion, in a few years the pile of trash will be so high you will be a able to see the bay standing on it), there is very limited work in mulege and the whole municipality, there is limited law, crime is more present than ever before in the area, small time crooks set up their feuds.......ahhh Baja!!!!

Damage of the environment comes from lack of education which is related to poverty which is related to no jobs. Yeah lets leave the area as it is, I am sure it will take care of itself.

The whole idea is that the bay does not follow the path of other places that have been indeed a disaster like some of the examples cited here. Whether we like it or not things are changing and the choice we have is how we influence this change. There are also plenty of great success stories where the environment and the true nature of places are kept mostly intact but development has generated jobs and benefit local communities and set the standards for the future in a very democratic manner.

I see you all share a lot of love for the area which shows in different ways (shoot developers, jerks, illegal, game on...), it is all good. I assume you guys too have some vested interest in the bay of any sort. We will be very active in influencing the local authorities so that laws are followed, specially environmental ones, and that a law that makes sense is set in place to regulate what developers can and can't do. If any of you is serious about it and want to get involved feel free to contact me directly.

Thanks!

capt. mike - 11-28-2009 at 09:12 AM

well i for one hope it works out.
i wish i could buy a nice place properly developed.
i'll bet if this board were around 40 years ago they would complain about all the gringo trailer parks sprouting up along the rio mulege.

arrowhead - 11-28-2009 at 09:39 AM

You people who are worried about the impact of this project have good points. But you are all missing the most important point, from the standpoint of a potential buyer. In California, and most other places in the US, when someone markets a project with "amenities", such as a desal plant, power plant, roads, etc. the money to put all those amenities in has to be guaranteed. The developer can either just put them in before selling the first lot, or bond the costs so that a lot buyer is guaranteed he will get the amenitities he paid for. This is a legal requirement to protect the buyer. The buyer is buying that land at a price "as if" those amentities where there for him. If the developer doesn't put them in, then the price paid for the lots was way too high.

This is what happened in Nopolo, and many other places in Mexico. So, the real question to ask mpc is: "how are the amenities going to be funded?" If his development plan is to build the amenities from the money paid by the lot buyers, then this is just another Mexican crap shoot.

Skeet/Loreto - 11-28-2009 at 10:52 AM

Arrowhead; Very well Said. I was taught by my good MeXicano friends early in Life;

"DINERO PREMERO'"

wilderone - 11-28-2009 at 11:33 AM

"We will be very active in influencing the local authorities"

Ha!! I'll bet you will!!!!!!!!!!!!

"Look what has happened now, with no regulation whatsoever anyone can do anything in the bay, people illegally fish everywhere, people throw out their trash whenever they feel it is convenient (how about behind posada concepcion, in a few years the pile of trash will be so high you will be a able to see the bay standing on it), there is very limited work in mulege and the whole municipality, there is limited law, crime is more present than ever before in the area, small time crooks set up their feuds.."

Obvously, what is needed are the basics - trash collection system, waste disposal system. You're going to solve the crime problem with your development? Why don't you clean up Mulege, build a modest deveopment in Mulege, help out the town?

k-rico - 11-28-2009 at 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by mpc
But if you wanted anything more than venting your anger you would first be more knowledgeable about what we are all about and ask serious questions about the hows and the whys of the project.

Mario Pani Cusi - CEO

mpc???

http://www.amalabaja.com/amala2009a.pdf

Terry28 - 11-28-2009 at 12:06 PM

I am having a hard time seeing what eveyone is getting upset about..
This project will NEVER be built...and anyone who knows that area and the economy will (should) come up with the same answer...It is as far fetched as the other planned developments in the same area...not gonna happen.
As for title insurance, it is a little different in Mexico, probably the most you can hope for is that after you plunk down 400K you will get "title" to your lot, no roads, no water, no power etc...makes it kinda tough to resell.
Buyer beware............

vandenberg - 11-28-2009 at 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by k-rico

Mario Pani Cusi - CEO

mpc???

http://www.amalabaja.com/amala2009a.pdf

No doubt,
Butterfields Italian cousin. :biggrin:

KAT54 - 11-28-2009 at 12:50 PM

Amalá is settled into 40.5 hectares / 100 acres of serene waterfront property in Bahia Concepcion, one hour north of Loreto. Embracing its secluded spot, all development will be eco-friendly.
The development will include:
- 30 lots 500k UP TO 2M
- Access plaza NOT IN
- Management office NOT IN
- Security station NOT IN
- Services area NOT IN
- Parking and storage area NOT IN
- Common areas IN
- Beach club and pathways to beaches NOT IN
- Serenity spots IN
- Green areas NOT IN BROWN AREAS IN
- Water promenade NOT IN
Spa NOT IN
http://www.facebook.com/people/Mario-Pani/1027270071
Looks like a rich kid

Donjulio - 11-28-2009 at 01:09 PM

mpc -

F1:
1) Subdivision plan
2) Title Deed
3) C.E.S.P.M feasibility study
4) C. F. E. feasibility study (both of which have to be approved for even if it is alternative)
5) State environmental impact opinion

F2:
1) Use of land approval
2) Traffic regulation approval
3) Lotification
4) Proposal and Plan for main access road
5) Level contours topography drawing

and so forth.

I have been doing this here for 10 years. I know whats required and what phase it's required. Once again if you do not have your F3 you cannot legally offer the property for sale.

What kills me.....

Sharksbaja - 11-28-2009 at 01:23 PM

....are all those lovely scenic photos posted on Facebook depicting a pristine area with awesome vistas and tranquility.

Now envision those landscapes with all those "eco-friendly" developments. He says he wants to live out his dreams. He also states it's all inevitable. I think he just wants to beat someone to the punch.

"LOOK AT ME! I DID ALL THIS" he can tell his grandkids. Then show them what it looked like before(cached in Google) he arrived.

Then he can say "THIS WILL ALL BE YOURS SOMEDAY" Be careful grandpa, you may already be living in the past.

"Thanks" is someone who may be willing to dump millions of dollars into an otherwise impossible undertaking(we've seen many) just to prove they can do it. Then it becomes exclusive only to like-minded people with the same deeeeep pockets.

I say take your plans elsewhere and retain the beauty you depict with your photos. Why should you be the one to permanently alter and scar the shores of this rare jewel you profess to love sooooo much.

Hoow about turning the area into a public preserve. That way your greatgreat grandchildren will be able to experience what it was like along there 100 years ago. I'm done. :rolleyes:

arrowhead - 11-28-2009 at 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mpc
We will be very active in influencing the local authorities so that laws are followed, specially environmental ones, and that a law that makes sense is set in place to regulate what developers can and can't do.

I don't think everybody here is dialed-in to the local politics in Mulege. They man who supposedly has the inside track to be the next mayor of Mulege is Armando Naranjo Rivera. If that name has a familiar ring to it, it is because he is the son of Armando Naranjo Mariscal, the man who holds the federal concession for Playas Naranjo. There is a recent thread here about how gringos were kicked out after paying their rent in advance and then being told to pay more or move out. Some palapas were burned in the process.

k-rico - 11-28-2009 at 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by vandenberg

Quote:

Originally posted by k-rico

Mario Pani Cusi - CEO

mpc???

http://www.amalabaja.com/amala2009a.pdf

No doubt,
Butterfields Italian cousin. :biggrin:

Naw, I don't think so. These folks appear to be from Massachusetts.

[Edited on 11-28-2009 by k-rico]

KAT54 - 11-29-2009 at 07:59 AM

So you are saying this is a "rich boy"
from a rich mexican family that summers in the
"hamptons" and does not have
a clue about the "real world" situation?

Skeet/Loreto - 11-29-2009 at 09:03 AM

Please remember :

Chopy Chavez

KAT54 - 11-29-2009 at 10:34 AM

Skeet/Loreto

Who is this Chavez guy?
Another developer?
Is he dead?
What is the story?
Why is this related?

k-rico - 11-29-2009 at 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by KAT54
So you are saying this is a "rich boy"
from a rich mexican family that summers in the
"hamptons" and does not have
a clue about the "real world" situation?

The Hamptons?? No way, probably the Vineyard. I tell ya, if I had a spare million lying around I'd spend on a chunk of waterless desert in an area sparsely inhabited by poor Mexicans and retired Americans. Hawaii, the Caribbean, forget it! Too green, too much water. Give me dirt, cactus, and vultures with 18 wheelers constantly rolling by any day.

Skeet/Loreto - 11-29-2009 at 11:49 AM

Kat54

Do a background check on this Board. Way back.

KAT54 - 11-29-2009 at 12:05 PM

Skeet/Loreto
If you know just tell us.
What does this chavez guy have to do with this property?
Dont you remember?
Was it too long ago?

capt. mike - 11-29-2009 at 12:26 PM

loose lips kill mexicans.
apparantly....

Skeet/Loreto - 11-29-2009 at 12:39 PM

No. I will not say anymoreafter this post.

Once upon a time in the small Village of Loreto Baja Sur Mexico there were some rowdy boys who got into a little drinking and fooling around. They took a short drive to one of the Three Cathouses outside of Loreto one nite, They found in the back of a Truck some radio gear which they stole and sold.
Since there had been a couple of these Thefts a Federale was sent up from La Paz{outsider} to solve the problem.

The fed, doing a good job had some questions so he took about 5 of these young boys out into the desert one night and proceeded to Question them.
A Pepsi, Shook up and formaing. wsa stuck up the nostrils and of course the request information was obtained!! Kid spent the next four days in the local Clinic.

Now by Chance, the boys were sons of local Pangeros,
The Federale has not been seen since that time! Where are Where could he Be???
My suggestion would be to check the Bottom of the Sea of Cortez.

This will be my last comment concerning the messing around in Mexicanos Business by Anyone.

vandenberg - 11-29-2009 at 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
No. I will not say anymoreafter this post.

Once upon a time in the small Village of Loreto Baja Sur Mexico there were some rowdy boys who got into a little drinking and fooling around. They took a short drive to one of the Three Cathouses outside of Loreto one nite, They found in the back of a Truck some radio gear which they stole and sold.
Since there had been a couple of these Thefts a Federale was sent up from La Paz{outsider} to solve the problem.

The fed, doing a good job had some questions so he took about 5 of these young boys out into the desert one night and proceeded to Question them.
A Pepsi, Shook up and formaing. wsa stuck up the nostrils and of course the request information was obtained!! Kid spent the next four days in the local Clinic.

Now by Chance, the boys were sons of local Pangeros,
The Federale has not been seen since that time! Where are Where could he Be???
My suggestion would be to check the Bottom of the Sea of Cortez.

This will be my last comment concerning the messing around in Mexicanos Business by Anyone.

A cute part of Loreto folklore, but totally irrelevant. :no:

Thanks Skeet. :biggrin:

KAT54 - 11-29-2009 at 01:04 PM

Skeet/Loreto
Is not this property is just north of Loreto?
Are you saying this happened here?
What is this rambling about?
Pepsi?
Noses?
The sea of cortez?
What are you talking about?

shari - 11-29-2009 at 01:08 PM

boy, there is just no end to the little tidbits of info one can pick up on baja nomad...pepsi up the nose...hmmm....I'll keep that in mind.

DENNIS - 11-29-2009 at 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by shari
boy, there is just no end to the little tidbits of info one can pick up on baja nomad...pepsi up the nose...hmmm....I'll keep that in mind.

Yeah....I think they prefer to use Peñafiel. Less messy and sticky. It's been an interogation method here forever. Very effective...moreso than our wimpy technique of waterboarding.

Bajahowodd - 11-29-2009 at 01:28 PM

Actually, in compliance with the campaign to combat obesity, they now use Pepsi Light. :biggrin:

Skeet/Loreto - 11-29-2009 at 01:42 PM

Van: Not Folklore Facts.

The kids that got the Pepsi up the Nose are still in or Near Loreto living still.

This story was meant to warn people about the workings of Baja. It is not like the States.

For a little more Folklore.:

Several years ago there was a young Lad from the University of new mesico living on the Island of Coronado doing his Thesis on the Lives of Pelicans.
One night he heard a distrubance in the next little cove and on checking out the next morning found a Body floatin and setting on the edge of the cove a crying young lady from one of Loreos top familys.

he loaded the Body and the Women into his boat and took them to Loreto where later on it was determined that Jealous Husband had taken revenge.

And Van These people are still in Loreto-Folklore!! What ever you beleive.

Skeet/Loreto - 11-29-2009 at 01:48 PM

And Van:

Did you know for several years that Domingo would keep a Donkey in front of his Resturant during Christmas and on several nites a week a little Short Grey Headed Man would set astride that Donkey and wish all of the arriving and departing Guests "Merry Christmas"!!!

Folklore Yes!!

I BELIEVE HIM!

ELINVESTIG8R - 11-29-2009 at 01:53 PM

KAT54 - 11-29-2009 at 01:57 PM

Think Skeet/Loretos Meds must be wrong today?
What does all this have to do with this new offering for expensive property north of loreto?
Were these the owners family?
Donkey?
Pepsi?
Noses?
Santa Claus?

Skeet/Loreto - 11-29-2009 at 02:04 PM

Forget it Kat54: I got drunk on a couple of Two-eyed Tequillas and lost my mind. Sorry to have mislead you. Really thought I could get across to you, that Americans should be very Careful when dealing with mexicans who have lots of Money, power, Prestige etc. Especially Beach Land.

P.S. The little Grey Headed man playing Santa Claus at Domingos was driving bad one day and ran over an injuried a small Mexicano Girl.
He was ask to pay for the Medicals- He refused_ he was given 24 Hours to leave- he was gone in 12 Hours and has not been back to loreto since.

KAT54 How old are You????

Diver - 11-29-2009 at 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
This will be my last comment concerning the messing around in Mexicanos Business by Anyone.

daledives - 11-29-2009 at 04:29 PM

all you researchers, do some more and see if you think mario pani is from san diego. There is also his father from mexico city. Maybe mario could give us some more info about himself and his company so we could ponder further his development.

wilderone - 11-30-2009 at 12:31 PM

An eco-friendly RV park/campground, with a big palapa with BBQ facilities for Mulege resident weekend parties, etc. at a reasonable price, showers (done right), waste disposal (done right), a little bar, small restaurant on the sand with fish tacos, fresh fish, etc., kept clean, employing about 6-7 people, would be a very welcome facility. Long term space rental, daily bakery truck - all the charm of Baja CA, with responsible mangement. that's what would appeal to the most people.
A small, 10-unit motel in town, built in a charming architectural style befitting old Baja with a garden courtyard - reasonably priced; offer fishing, snorkling tours, pictograph tours, an internet/library sitting room with bar.
More business sense to provide something needed. Million dollar homes in the middle of the Baja peninsula are not needed.

k-rico - 11-30-2009 at 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by wilderone
An eco-friendly RV park/campground, with a big palapa with BBQ facilities for Mulege resident weekend parties, etc. at a reasonable price, showers (done right), waste disposal (done right), a little bar, small restaurant on the sand with fish tacos, fresh fish, etc., kept clean, employing about 6-7 people, would be a very welcome facility. Long term space rental, daily bakery truck - all the charm of Baja CA, with responsible mangement. that's what would appeal to the most people.
A small, 10-unit motel in town, built in a charming architectural style befitting old Baja with a garden courtyard - reasonably priced; offer fishing, snorkling tours, pictograph tours, an internet/library sitting room with bar.
More business sense to provide something needed. Million dollar homes in the middle of the Baja peninsula are not needed.

Add a boat ramp to the RV park/campground. - Perfect!!

JESSE - 11-30-2009 at 12:44 PM

That whole area has problems, big problems, i wouldn't buy there even at 80% off prices.

Amazing

wessongroup - 11-30-2009 at 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Donjulio
mpc -

F1:
1) Subdivision plan
2) Title Deed
3) C.E.S.P.M feasibility study
4) C. F. E. feasibility study (both of which have to be approved for even if it is alternative)
5) State environmental impact opinion

F2:
1) Use of land approval
2) Traffic regulation approval
3) Lotification
4) Proposal and Plan for main access road
5) Level contours topography drawing

and so forth.

I have been doing this here for 10 years. I know whats required and what phase it's required. Once again if you do not have your F3 you cannot legally offer the property for sale.

It's like most don't even hear what you are saying... thanks for a clear "bullet fashion" breakdown on how to...

me neither.........

capt. mike - 11-30-2009 at 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JESSE
That whole area has problems, big problems, i wouldn't buy there even at 80% off prices.

its all ejido just like Mulege. all you'll ever get is court battles here and there.

capt. mike - 11-30-2009 at 01:52 PM

"that's what would appeal to the most people. "
." Million dollar homes in the middle of the Baja peninsula are not needed. "

you have to have statistically significent data to back it up or a statement like that is diatribe and or just what appeals to you alone.
i luv ya Wilderone but who's to say there isn't a market for million $$ homes there.
i see what Mace is doing next to Playa Frambes and i gotta say - there are lots of people with the jack who WILL pay for luxury remoted and far off the grids.
not me of course...i LIKE trailers...and palapas.

KAT54 - 11-30-2009 at 03:33 PM

CaptMike
Is all Mulege ejido land?
Is this eijdio land?

ellifiknow

capt. mike - 11-30-2009 at 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by KAT54
CaptMike
Is all Mulege ejido land?
Is this eijdio land?

i just know there is so much ejido around Mulege that i would be very leery about plunking down any $$ on a "real" purchase there or its environs.

i am not in the mex RE biz nor do i know much about it.
i have lots of friends who lease and some who bought.

many land deals in mexico come with horror stories.

when i got out i still got to keep my shirt!!

[Edited on 11-30-2009 by capt. mike]

Crusoe - 11-30-2009 at 06:10 PM

Wilderone has it right!! ++C++

wilderone - 12-3-2009 at 10:13 AM

"that's what would appeal to the most people. "
" Million dollar homes in the middle of the Baja peninsula are not needed. "

Operative words "most people" and "needed".
I believe the statistics would back that up. Plenty of million dollar homes on the market right now - unsold. For whom? Most people? Baja California and Gulf of Calif. NEEDS to keep its attributes of an ecological treasure. If there's life after 12/21/12 (!), there will be future generations to enjoy the Baja CA that we all know.

tripledigitken - 12-3-2009 at 10:37 AM

Quote:

Build it and they will come! Get a business partner and go for it! I would stay at least a week ea year there!

Ken

capt. mike - 12-3-2009 at 01:17 PM

i think what Ray Limo has created west of Mulege in the valley has much of that ready to enjoy now.

it is a buyers market for sure. plenty of high end stuff avail for lo end pesos.
that market function will stifle new development for years to come.

KAT54 - 12-3-2009 at 02:34 PM

CaptMike
Didn't you say this land was edijo property?
Isn't there a problem buying edijo property?
Don't you think there is alot of people that don't
really want to live in a 30 year old trailer like you do?
Do you live in an old trailer in the states?
Wouldn't it be nice to live in a pocted area with people of means?
Could you find 4 business partners to reduce the cost?

capt. mike - 12-3-2009 at 03:11 PM

KAT54 you crack me up.
i have been screwing off here since, i don't know - i guess when ADB forum stopped and i went to my 1st viva Baja shindig - well i have never seen anyone with the rapid fire questions on each post as you have. you must be a pistol!

but - to answer some of them.
i forgot what i said.
yes.
yes.
i have. and i likely will again...... ;^)
yes.
not in today's climate....;^((

have a gudden..

ramuma53 - 7-16-2010 at 12:28 PM

MPC
Sorry but DonJulio is right, you need an F4 permit to be able to legally sell a single lot, it is called Fraccionamiento and it is signed by the Governor; if you sell without one of those it is a Fraud "Fraude Equiparado" and a criminal offense.
Also I woud not trust the title insurance issued by American companies, they usually do not know what they insure and you have to go in to the fine print to see that they put a lot of ifs; just check the Maravia project in La Paz, they have an American Title insurance and do not have a private property title, they have a Colonial title that is worth nothing, they do not exist since 1992.
Also you say you own land in Bahia Concepcion since 1971 and in Bahia Concepcion there is only one Private property title for Buenavetura, all other land is Ejido La Purisima land up to Estero Santa Barbara and Mulege Ejido up from there.
Also your webpage has nothing that show you as owners.
You said that you own the land since 1971, but there was a National Land claim in 1962 by a company named Yates y Turismo that dropped the claim in 1971, and was claimed the next year by the Buenaventura owner in 1972, so how come you own something you do not have, because Buenaventura hotel is there and if you put a foot in Requeson or anyplace near, you will get a criminal charge without the premission of Buenaventura owner and that is good for you or any of your buyers.
You look like another smart guy who try to get a buck from inocent Americans, we do not need more of those, we have enough with Olivia.

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