BajaNomad

Need some book referals

Santiago - 11-30-2009 at 08:27 AM

Need recommendations for 2 books in English:
1. History of Mexico
2. Equivalent of a high school civics or government course in Mexico.

I can find lots of books on the history, but am looking for something that is of a general nature but still useful as a reference tool.
I'm stuck on the civics course.
What I'm shooting for is to have a reference book that will bring me to the level of what an average high school graduate would know about their government.
Thanks

Osprey - 11-30-2009 at 08:32 AM

Mexico, Biography of Power, Enrique Krauze (covers from 1810 to 1996) is the best. Beyond excellent.

Iflyfish - 11-30-2009 at 09:59 AM

There's A Word For It In Mexico

http://www.amazon.com/Theres-Word-Mexico-Boye-Mente/dp/08442...

I have read widely on the subject, brother an Anthropoligist living in Mexico, over 35 years of travel there and not till I read this book did it. A must read.

I am grateful to the Nomad who recommended this book to me.

Iflyfish

Skeet/Loreto - 11-30-2009 at 06:18 PM

Santiago; for a starter i would suggest "Blood and Fire"".
The following information is factual but you may be able to find some recordings. It is given to you to help you, as it did me to understand the workings of one part of Mexico that most people do not know about.

Pancho Villa and Zapata where members of a Masonic Lodge. They were the Northern instagators of the Revolution that seperated the Catholic Church from the Govt. of Mexico.
Until the past two Presidents only a Mason could be a president of Mexico.

The way it works:
Villa Constitution or now Known as Cuidad Constitution was just a piece of Desert until Fossel Water was discovered.
The Mexican Govt went into many small villages in the Mainland and moved complete Masonic Lodges of men with their familes to Constitution to develop the land, Which they Did.
These Lodges, And I have attended the Lodges, are made up of all of the Merchants, Mechanic, Carpenters, Farmers and Such.

The Health Care system in Constitution has 3 Hospitals for about 40,000, One The General Hospital is for the very Poor People who do not have to pay.{Headed by a 32Degree Mason.} As the other 200 or so in Mexico are headed by a Mason{Kinda like the Shriners Huh!!|.

If you want a guided tour of Constitution please let me know,

When you get into the History of DOPE on the other side at Culican that is a complete different set of rules and regulations and peoples. It makes for a great Study. Also for you Civics Course I would suggest a Trip to Gualajara{SP} 6,000,ooo and still growing. A beautifull City.

You cannot do an accruate Study of Mesico without finding and studing the influence of the Mason. It would not be accurate.

Good Luck and enjoy learning about the real Mexico!!

Skeet

DENNIS - 11-30-2009 at 06:28 PM

Well...there you are. The Knights Templar are the cause and the correction of all rights and wrongs in Mexico. Who da *** woulda ever freakin known without Skeeter telling us.

Skeet/Loreto - 11-30-2009 at 07:11 PM

Dennis: Knight Templar are your Words and you are Dead Wrong. The word is
Mason.

Skeet/Loreto - 11-30-2009 at 07:13 PM

Dennis: The Previous Posts had no discussion of Rights and Wrongs! Those are your words. Are you trying to start some kinda a of aConflict? This is about History, Civics and the past History. Not disigned for your Amsusment. Bug Off.

DENNIS - 11-30-2009 at 07:27 PM

OK Skeet...Bugging off.

mulegemichael - 11-30-2009 at 07:32 PM

bugged?

mulegemichael - 11-30-2009 at 07:34 PM

it's apparent you guys have read all of dan brown's books.

Santiago - 11-30-2009 at 10:31 PM

Well, alrighty then. Thank all of you for your suggestions and pointers. Honestly, never considered the Mason angle. Think I'll drag out my copy of "The Man who would be King" for another look-see.

Skeet/Loreto - 12-1-2009 at 07:22 AM

Santiago:
One other recent aspect of History in Mexico is the varrious people who came to Mexico from Europe. Germans, Jewish, French etc.
As an Example the Benzigers of the Hotel Oasis in Loreto and some of the Jewish people around Matztalan. It started during World War 1.

Sorry Dennis, I just did not want this Thread to get involved in Rights or Wrongs.
I have always thought how important it is that we l;earn the history of Me\xico and its People.

DENNIS - 12-1-2009 at 08:30 AM

I understand, Skeeter. Thanks.

flyfishinPam - 12-1-2009 at 10:40 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
If you want a guided tour of Constitution please let me know,
Skeet


I don't have time for a tour but I do know the area geographically. I have to give tours for the whales in Lopez Mateos from Puerto Escondido starting in January. Its tough to discuss the natural history, like fauna and flora even some of the geology when folks are whizzing by at 60mph most of the time but I can talk about how the area was settled and the agriculture until we get to the osprey nests.

What can you tell me about the families who settled the valley and specifically how Lopez and Insurgentes were settled? Interesting names, Insurgentes and Constitucion was there a reason for these names in this location? There's an ejido called 20 de noviembre as well. Don't see that in the rest of the peninsula. I did read that much of the agriculture was developed during the "green revolution".

Its nice to give some interesting stories during the tours and add variation. I don't know much about the area except that its flat and I can drive fast through it.

David K - 12-1-2009 at 10:49 AM

Villa Insurgentes was originally Colonia de la Toba...

The Toba family were some of the original pioneers of the Magdalena Plain and one of them was governor... his grave is near La Pasion/ Rancho La Presa (Mision Dolores Chilla) and Jack Swords photograped it... http://vivabaja.com/swords/

On page 4:

Baja history buff and INAH authorized photographer Jack Swords has returned to the old ranch of La Presa, once owned by Fernando de la Toba. De La Toba served as colonial governor of peninsular (Baja) California in 1821* (* page 314, 'A History of Lower California' by Pablo Martinez).

On page 5:
Governor de la Toba's resting place...




[Edited on 12-1-2009 by David K]

Osprey - 12-1-2009 at 11:00 AM

Pam, I read a couple of places over the last few years that Constitucion was/is using ground water from an aguafir under the region which holds water which has been there for eons.

It was announced that they were using something like a hundred years of rainfall per month and there were serious concerns that "once it's gone, it's gone" as the recharge rate for current rainfall averages would be thousands of years, not weeks or months. That's probably happening all over the peninsula but the word is not spread around much. Data is hard to come by I'll bet.

Skeet/Loreto - 12-1-2009 at 11:14 AM

Yes Osprey!
Originally what caused Constitution as it is known to day was the discovery of a large body of Fossel"SP} water at 1500 Feet. The Mexican Govt. decided to establish an Agriculture and brought people from the Mainland.

Cotton wasx the first crop until such time as the water started disappering, then suddenly one day the Govt declared that there would be no more Pumping of Water for 1/2 half of all the Ground. Cotton was no longer allowed and Maise was started.
There was an uproar and protest and a large group of People started marching to La Paz to Protest.
At about 2 0 miles South of Constitution there is a Memorial to I think 14 People Killed in that Protest march when a Drunk Driver hit them at about
100 MPH. Next time any of you go by stop and take a look.

The Masonic lodge played an important part when the Govt. wanted to get people into the area with all types of Craftsman,so they moved several Lodges of People to Constitution..They were able to create an instant community of all types of workers/Craftsman and famlies.
Today Constitution is doing well economically due to the increase price of Corn.
Also in the surrounding area there are several very large Dairy operations.

The above will not matter if and when the Water is Gone. I hope not.

Skeet

flyfishinPam - 12-1-2009 at 11:29 AM

I've heard about the de la Toba family. Before Loreto was its own municipio, not too long ago, it was part of Commundu. So de la Toba being the territorial governor would make sense in Commundu because Loreto the capital then was part of Commundu I guess.

I am aware of the water source there and believe it or not there was talk in some of that water coming to Loreto to support future growth here. I think the people of constitucion are too smart to let that happen. I see that corn is grown and asparagus too, citrus as well. Irrigation techniques look much like what you'd see in the US. There's lots of flat land on the Magdelena plain so these irrigation and farming techniques resemble what we'd see in the plains states or the central valley in California.

I have heard there were also incentives from the government for the families to settle in the area in the way of money and land.

monoloco - 12-1-2009 at 11:34 AM

Is it true that now salt water is intruding into their aquifer due to all the ag pumping?

David K - 12-1-2009 at 12:07 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by flyfishinPam
I've heard about the de la Toba family. Before Loreto was its own municipio, not too long ago, it was part of Commundu. So de la Toba being the territorial governor would make sense in Commundu because Loreto the capital then was part of Commundu I guess.

I am aware of the water source there and believe it or not there was talk in some of that water coming to Loreto to support future growth here. I think the people of constitucion are too smart to let that happen. I see that corn is grown and asparagus too, citrus as well. Irrigation techniques look much like what you'd see in the US. There's lots of flat land on the Magdelena plain so these irrigation and farming techniques resemble what we'd see in the plains states or the central valley in California.

I have heard there were also incentives from the government for the families to settle in the area in the way of money and land.


De la Toba ws governor in 1821... the capital of California was in Loreto until 1830, when it was moved to La Paz after the hurricane destroyed Loreto in 1829.

The creation of municipos happened in 'modern' times, Comondu being the center of the region got the name and may have been a larger town then, but Loreto had the offices in the 1970s... as I recall from what was painted on the government building in Loreto (Municipo de Comondu).

Skeet/Loreto - 12-1-2009 at 12:58 PM

Yes David; I am not sure of the date but I think about 1985 Loreto became its own County and County Seat. Prior to that Commondu was the County Seat but most of the offices and Courts were in Constitution.
Prior to the Road opening Loreto was only about 2500 people. For them to get to La Paz most would go to St. Javier and down through Constitution.
There were no paved streets, and the Corner where now sets a fancy Hotel was a Butcher Shop where on Thursdays you could watch a Steer Killed and Butchered .
There was dancing on the Plaza on Sunday nites with the Mammas escorting their Daughters. Oh Loreto I miss you so much!!
Skeet

David K - 12-1-2009 at 03:49 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
Yes David; I am not sure of the date but I think about 1985 Loreto became its own County and County Seat. Prior to that Commondu was the County Seat but most of the offices and Courts were in Constitution.
Prior to the Road opening Loreto was only about 2500 people. For them to get to La Paz most would go to St. Javier and down through Constitution.
There were no paved streets, and the Corner where now sets a fancy Hotel was a Butcher Shop where on Thursdays you could watch a Steer Killed and Butchered .
There was dancing on the Plaza on Sunday nites with the Mammas escorting their Daughters. Oh Loreto I miss you so much!!
Skeet


The good old day, huh Skeet?

David K - 12-1-2009 at 03:52 PM

Before the name was changed to Villa Constitucion, it was called El Crucero...






1962 map (by 1966, the thin pavement to El Crucero/ Constitucion had disappeared to a point near Santa Rita)



[Edited on 12-1-2009 by David K]

Skeet/Loreto - 12-1-2009 at 03:57 PM

David: The building on the right was still standing the last time I went through Constitution.
Skeet

David K - 12-1-2009 at 04:14 PM

Good stuff happened in 1957! :wow: (guess when I was born, lol)

Santiago - 12-1-2009 at 10:00 PM

I believe I owe and apology to Skeet: at first I thought he was abit wacko with respect to the Freemasons - I've just spent about an hour reading that many of the first presidents were Freemasons and so were many of the people in power. Anyone else have a feel for this? If I'm understanding what I'm reading, at the end of the War on the Clergy, there were only a few hundred priests registered in the entire country and a dozen states or so had no clergy at all. I think I recall the symbol of Freemasonry on a just-complete small building or crypt just south of the cemetery in BOLA? Does anyone know how pervasive Freemasonry is in Baja?
By the way, I'm not pro-or anti FM, could really care less. Just curious.

edit for spelling

[Edited on 12-2-2009 by Santiago]

Skeet/Loreto - 12-2-2009 at 08:40 AM

No Apology necessary!
Freemasonry has been and is still important in Mexico. There is a very large and strong group of Shriners in Mesxco City. There is a Scottish Rite--32 Degre Temple in La paz, just across the street from the Mission.
There has been developed 7 new Lodges in and around the Constitution Area in the past 20 or so years.

Freemasonry in Mexico is considered more Political wheas in the States it is more Practical.

Skeet/Loreto