BajaNomad - violence on surfers and tourists in Northern Baja

violence on surfers and tourists in Northern Baja

jeremias - 12-11-2009 at 11:32 PM

Has the situation and trend of violence, hold ups by "cops" etc. that seemed to be rampant in 07'(at least from all the accounts I've read posted here and on the web)changed much recently? I've actually been down towards Ensenada to visit a friend, drove by myself and surfed in San Quentin twice in the last year with no problems, other than some hard looking guys in a truck maddogging me and peeling out. But I guess in spite of the rumors I'd heard about some incidents with surfers, i wasn't really aware how much it had actually been occurring. I was thinking about going down to Colonet area and then further by myself this month, but am definitely having some pause at this point. I apologize if I am dredging up a topic that has been beaten to death(no pun intended).

fishbuck - 12-12-2009 at 04:03 AM

I don't have any first hand inf to give.
But I think this is part "Urban Legend" and part true.
I've had a few minor run-ins with the Baja police.
The key to surviving in Baja or anywhere else is to "fly under the radar" Blend in with the local traffic as best as you can.
There was a very scary story about a surfer and his girlfriend that got robbed at gunpoint a few years ago.
But then I talked to people in Baja that said it didn't happen the way the surfer said.
It happened in Colonet.
If I was camping on the beach alone I'd realy like to have a big dog or two. Maybe three! The barking bitting kind.
Some people camping on the beach in San Q. got robbed a few weeks ago.
My advice? Stay in a hotel. Get up early and go to the beach.
I travel alone alot and really dn't have any problems. It's fun!
Keep a low profile and don't let your guard down! :cool:

DENNIS - 12-12-2009 at 08:12 AM

Welcome aboard, Jeremia................The situation seems to have quieted down somewhat, probably because tourists are leaving themselves less vulnerable. There is still an element of danger that must constantly be kept in mind. Just try not to put yourself in that position and your chances are best.
Another reason fewer tourists are being assaulted is, well....there are fewer tourists.
Don't drive at night and don't camp alone in isolated places.
have a good trip.

Woooosh - 12-12-2009 at 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS
Welcome aboard, Jeremia................The situation seems to have quieted down somewhat, probably because tourists are leaving themselves less vulnerable. There is still an element of danger that must constantly be kept in mind. Just try not to put yourself in that position and your chances are best.
Another reason fewer tourists are being assaulted is, well....there are fewer tourists.
Don't drive at night and don't camp alone in isolated places.
have a good trip.

I saw this recent YouTube video posted by a man who claims he helped two American surfers who "surfed away" when his other two friends were harassed by the police/miltary. Could have been their shiny new truck. He claims they took the two away in handcuffs and they are still missing...

Can't tell the exact location from his rambling story but houses with beach access with stairs in Rosarito sounds like San Antonio del mar...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f96jmACC4Ws

DENNIS - 12-12-2009 at 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Woooosh
Can't tell the exact location from his rambling story but houses with beach access with stairs in Rosarito sounds like San Antonio del mar...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f96jmACC4Ws

Way too little info to even guess an area. Could be SADM...could be a lot of places.
The guy is believable, in my opinion. Wish he had given more details, when and where.
Wonder how old this video is.

[Edited on 12-12-2009 by DENNIS]

Terry28 - 12-12-2009 at 09:28 AM

I watched the video...kinda strange, and no one has reported this before. Seems someone would have heard about this in the surfing community.
Use common sense and you will have a great time. I have been surfing that area for the last 15 years, no problems. Water is getting colder though....

JaraHurd - 12-12-2009 at 09:50 AM

Yes, welcome Jeremias. There seem to be two general types on this site. those that believe the sky is falling and those that believe there is little to no crime in Baja. The advice offered by Fishbuck is solid and I generally agree with it.

I have worked in very high crime areas all my adult life as a law enforcement officer. Watts in the mid 80's was extremely violent. I worked both undercover and in uniform. I heard gunshots every night. But I was never persoanlly victimized. Why? Too many other easy targets. And luck. Even when I was in uniform I expected to draw some fire but never did. Just luck I guess. Lots of people out there. Lots of very good people too. But I always kept my wits about me.

The crime in Baja is real. But as in every other place it varies depending on where you are. Tijuana has concentrated criime but once you leave Tijuana the crime rate dips. Crime in general in Baja does appear to be tapering off. Although I don't travel to Baja as much as I would like, I do interview people from Baja and other parts of Mexico every day that I work (now near downtown Los Angeles in another high crime area..but not as high as it was in the 80's or 90's). I am told exactly what Fishbuck says.

If you look for trouble or stick out too much you may be targeted. I would avoid buying or using drugs. That is fairly obvious advice. I would be careful visiting unsavory places. I don't drink alcohol but if i did I would be careful about public drunkedness.

Mexico is fascinating and beautiful. Just take some precautions, don't dress too flashy, avoid wads of money in the wallet and hide valuables in your vehicle and your odds of being victimized go down. ..anyway...my input to the issue. I read reports weekly directly from Mexican law enforcement sources that are not given to the media. I happen to currently work sexual assault crimes. Some of the stories are pretty scary and not publicized. But given all that information, I drove to Mulege in 2007 and Todos Santos in 2008...had the time of my life! have fun but keep your wits about you..

Jon

jeremias - 12-12-2009 at 07:51 PM

Thanks for the all the replies. Kind of the common sense i figured myself. I've spent alot of time in Mexico surfing since my first trip at 12(now a ripe old 36) and have yet to have any real problems, even when I used to really ask for it doing all those "unsavory" type things as a young punk. In the last year in spite of all the stuff on the news, I spent a month near Maz by myself and did that trip to San Quintin. Had no probs or anything out of the ordinary. Seemed like the vibe was definitely different though. Could've been all the armored vehicles I bumped into, or just my own fear. I wasn't really aware of the amount of the escalation of hold ups and such in Baja until I started fishing around the web and reading all of it. Thankfully my truck is 10 years old and I'm a bit crusty so i probably don't have much to worry about. How safe is the beach camping further down south on the Cortez side? If I can't round anybody to cruise with me I was thinking about checking out the Bahia L.A to warm up for a week or so and fish maybe solo. This site is killing me though. I can't get enough of of the armchair roadtrippin.

[Edited on 12-13-2009 by jeremias]

JaraHurd - 12-12-2009 at 07:57 PM

Jeremias..I know what u mean . I live the Baja experience vicariously through this site much of the year. I can't get down to Baja much and reading the posts on this site make me even hungrier for a trip.

jeremias - 12-12-2009 at 08:01 PM

It's torture, I can't decide if I want to surf in the freezing cold, or just go camp and fish on the east side somewhere and live out of my camper shell... 2 dollar gas !!! :spingrin:

[Edited on 12-13-2009 by jeremias]

jeremias - 12-12-2009 at 10:08 PM

can't seem to see my avatar, can anybody?.....hmmm

DENNIS - 12-13-2009 at 06:16 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by jeremias
can't seem to see my avatar, can anybody?.....hmmm

I think you need 25 posts before you can put one up. Is that right? Hey out there..... anybody...help.

mojo_norte - 12-13-2009 at 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by jeremias
It's torture, I can't decide if I want to surf in the freezing cold, or just go camp and fish on the east side somewhere and live out of my camper shell... 2 dollar gas !!! :spingrin:

[Edited on 12-13-2009 by jeremias]

I would head down to BOLA catching some surf as you go. I would consider any camping North of El Rosario to be risky and try and stay in campgrounds that have security - guards and/or fences. In Bola I would head out to La Gringa if you're looking for more remote camping - No facilities. catch fish off your surfboard. warm and pleasant. check the swell report at the internet cafe in town and head back over to the west coast if anythings happening. have fun!

toneart - 12-13-2009 at 10:57 AM

In 2007 there were just two incidents involving surfers that got lots of attention. That is because the same ones circulated around and around, only to reappear here and in other forums and also the media broadcast and/or printed them repeatedly over a period of about a year and a half. The surfers, by the way, were not using due caution.

Also, if anyone nearby is offering or doing any kind of drugs, get as far away from them as you can, even if it means leaving the spot for good. Drugs attract violence; not always, but often. That's the biggest threat to your personal safety. Drugs is what the cartel drug war is all about. Whereas you/we gringos may not be targets per se, the drug element makes you attractive...like a magnet.

Regarding BOLA or anywhere on the SOC, the weather is not all that warm in the winter and the water is c-o-l-d!

Right

Dave - 12-13-2009 at 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by toneart
Also, if anyone nearby is offering or doing any kind of drugs, get as far away from them as you can, even if it means leaving the spot for good.

Surfers?...Running from drugs???

Equal to defying the laws of gravity. :rolleyes:

toneart - 12-13-2009 at 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave

Quote:

Originally posted by toneart
Also, if anyone nearby is offering or doing any kind of drugs, get as far away from them as you can, even if it means leaving the spot for good.

Surfers?...Running from drugs???

Equal to defying the laws of gravity. :rolleyes:

Well...there you go! I am not saying that the laws of gravity can be violated by good sense. I am just trying to suggest that lack of good sense can get you dead.

There are some endeavors where you cannot defy the laws of gravity or good sense: i.e. a tree topper can't take a step backward to admire his work. :no:

Woooosh - 12-13-2009 at 11:27 AM

Quote:

a tree topper can't take a step backward to admire his work.

Sure he can- but only once.

I had beach house in San Diego where my dogs would run around the permimeter of the roof deck. Someone asked me if I was worried the dogs would jump off.. I answered; "they would only do it once" )

Dave - 12-13-2009 at 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by toneart
I am just trying to suggest that lack of good sense can get you dead.

And I'm suggesting it should.

mojo_norte - 12-13-2009 at 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by toneart

Regarding BOLA or anywhere on the SOC, the weather is not all that warm in the winter and the water is c-o-l-d!

Much warmer than the west coast

mojo_norte - 12-13-2009 at 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by toneart
In 2007 there were just two incidents involving surfers that got lots of attention. That is because the same ones circulated around and around, only to reappear here and in other forums and also the media broadcast and/or printed them repeatedly over a period of about a year and a half. The surfers, by the way, were not using due caution.

Also, if anyone nearby is offering or doing any kind of drugs, get as far away from them as you can, even if it means leaving the spot for good. Drugs attract violence; not always, but often. That's the biggest threat to your personal safety. Drugs is what the cartel drug war is all about. Whereas you/we gringos may not be targets per se, the drug element makes you attractive...like a magnet.

The incidents I recall in that area during that period:

1) San Diego guy and wife who had been doing surf tours in that area for years were beaten and robbed in the motorhome. Wife was sexually assaulted while the husband watched.
2) surfers were dragged out of their tents at night robbed and their truck stolen
3) Canadian couple in RV beaten with pipe and RV stolen. RV was found ransacked. Husband and wife picked up on the side of the road. Husband had severe injuries and had to be airlifted out due to severe injuries.

The reports go on and on back into the 90's.

SteveD - 12-13-2009 at 12:02 PM

Back to the original question about TJ cops stopping surfers.

When the TJ cops were really into the Mordida they would look for someone easy to shake down: Gringos in new cars headed north, cars with California license plates, middle aged gringos not wanting the hassle or, the easiest to spot, vehicles with surf boards on the roof! (profilling?)

Most times, if the person stopped pushed back any way they would let them go. The last time I was stopped a few years ago they told me I would have to go to the Police Station a few miles away. When I asked why not go to the one two blocks away the let me go.

I have not heard of anyone being stopped for the past couple of years. Maybe it's gotten better. What is everyone elses experience lately?

Bajahowodd - 12-13-2009 at 12:06 PM

If there is less harassment of tourists by the TJ cops these days, it's probably because they have more important things to worry about!

surebought - 12-13-2009 at 07:01 PM

The Poor Surfers. This is profiling Mexican style at its worst. Its from the days of the Volkswagen Bus with the Surf Boards on top. Their parents have money. They scare easy. They are not too smart and they're always holding. Cops playing the percentages. Live the dream you guys, but don't look the look.

jeremias - 12-13-2009 at 11:07 PM

Hey!!!.......they are not too smart you say?.......I resent that...lol

jeremias - 12-13-2009 at 11:50 PM

Mojo, that sounds like a plan. How is the fishing in the BoLa area in Jan?

Arm yourself to the teeth

The Gull - 12-14-2009 at 06:58 AM

with every kind of gun you can carry. To hell with the laws of the country. If anyone approaches you, regardless of nationality, age or possible intent, blow them away. If you happen to catch a few of your buddies in the cross fire or nail a few street vendors in the process, just remember that there are billions of people on Earth and the remaining people will share in the resources left behind.

I hope this bit of travel advice has been of help.

It has been brought to you by board members who like to dredge up anecdotal incidences (unconfirmed or total rumor) from decades past for which they have no first or second hand knowledge of anything. They are the true armchair Baja-experts.

Example: just last month, we had a rash of expert opinions regarding some American who said drug dudes broke into his Playas residence, taped him up, raped his Scandanavian girl friend, and killed her. Turned out he did the whole thing after arguing over something like housekeeping. I have heard of four similar situations in the last 20 years, just in Baja Norte.

I have been in Baja since 1968 and owned property since 1988. I ask you...if Baja is such a hellhole, why do all these Nomads live and visit here?

Use common sense? Wish it was more common than it appears to be.

mojo_norte - 12-14-2009 at 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by jeremias
Mojo, that sounds like a plan. How is the fishing in the BoLa area in Jan?

I was at La Gringa last early February. A couple guys showed up who had been surfing over in the 7 Sacred Secret Spots area , One guy put on his full suit in the evening and paddled out in the bay with his spin cast rig. He caught dinner - 3 pan sized fish in about an hour with a green feather lead head lure.

The weather was pleasant - shorts and T shirts during the day out of the wind. Water cold 3/2mm. I was there about a week. We missed the rain that was happening up north. There was 3 days of 15-20 knot winds . winds were light the rest of the time. It blows offshore there.

surebought - 12-14-2009 at 03:15 PM

Wow The Gull, I am afraid someone might take you seriously about carrying a gun in your car in Mexico. That was not good advice. If this is you, you better stay home. Go through one of those soldier check points and get caught with a gun, you are going to be hating life. Keep your guns at home. And if your that scared, stay home too.

The Gull - 12-14-2009 at 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by surebought
Wow The Gull, I am afraid someone might take you seriously about carrying a gun in your car in Mexico. That was not good advice. If this is you, you better stay home. Go through one of those soldier check points and get caught with a gun, you are going to be hating life. Keep your guns at home. And if your that scared, stay home too.

One US Marine did exactly that last year, or so, tried to go through a check point with weapons. Didn't work.

Hey Surebought, a big thanks to you for telling everyone that my tongue-in-cheek "arming yourself to the teeth" advice should not be followed.

Actually, I prefer to use RPG's over large caliber guns when touring Baja.

He's just culling the herd

Dave - 12-14-2009 at 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by surebought
Wow The Gull, I am afraid someone might take you seriously about carrying a gun in your car in Mexico.

Dumb and dumber probably needs to stay home.

Or....maybe not. :rolleyes:

ELINVESTIG8R - 12-14-2009 at 03:46 PM

I carry a concealed Beretta 92F with five loaded 15 round magazines and 300 extra rounds when I go to Mexico. Don’t you! God! :lol:

Yup!

toneart - 12-14-2009 at 03:52 PM

Quote:

There are actually newbies, or people actually ignorant of Mexico's gun laws, or gullible people, or helplessly dumb or retarded, or... or... terminally machos (there is such a disease that eats away the brain). :lol:

who may take Gull seriously.

toneart - 12-14-2009 at 04:08 PM

"The man is 65 and he's getting his first Social Security check. Now with all of his lifes goals met, there is nothing left to do but move to Mexico and drink himself to death like Richard Burton did in the John Huston Classic, The Night of the Iguana." - Surebought's signiture line

I believe Richard Burton actually did that...largely in Mexico. He and Liz had a casa in Gringo Gulch section of Puerto Vallarta. I spent lots of time there (before retirement, SS, drinking myself to death)... (just kidding about the "drinking myself to death") in P.V. I was actually there when they made the movie.

Anyway, here's a true story: Years later, during the 1970's, Richard and Liz pulled up in a V.W. Thing with the top down (remember those?). Liz was driving. Richard was sleeping. She jumped out and ran into a boutique and left him there with the sun blazing down on his very red, rather bloated face.

I stood there just staring at him. I was shocked at the change that had come over his appearance! I didn't consider it rude to stare because he was sleeping. Suddenly he lifted his head and swiveled it to the right and opened his eyes. Now I know he had an eye for the ladies and couldn't have been too pleased at my face being the first image on his semi-conscious, soggy brain. He gave kind of a disgusted look and then his head lolled back, his eyes slammed shut and his head crashed against the headrest.

ELINVESTIG8R - 12-14-2009 at 05:05 PM

Bloated red face...Semi-conscious...Soggy brain :lol:

This of course does not sound like any of us in here now does it! :lol:

BajaWarrior - 12-14-2009 at 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SteveD
Back to the original question about TJ cops stopping surfers.

When the TJ cops were really into the Mordida they would look for someone easy to shake down: Gringos in new cars headed north, cars with California license plates, middle aged gringos not wanting the hassle or, the easiest to spot, vehicles with surf boards on the roof! (profilling?)

Most times, if the person stopped pushed back any way they would let them go. The last time I was stopped a few years ago they told me I would have to go to the Police Station a few miles away. When I asked why not go to the one two blocks away the let me go.

A friend of mine was stopped once heading south just outside of Tijuana and once heading north just outside of Tijuana, in the same day, just to get some surf when a nice swell had hit. No more Baja trips for him, and he was a 30 years seasoned Baja traveler.

BajaGeoff has a story about some Surf contest event coordinators that got stopped twice on the way down to San Miguel (Ensenada) and once heading home, no more Baja they said...

I have not heard of anyone being stopped for the past couple of years. Maybe it's gotten better. What is everyone elses experience lately?

[Edited on 12-15-2009 by BajaWarrior]

woody with a view - 12-14-2009 at 06:06 PM

no problems.... knock on me!!!

i'm lying, it is anarchy down there. why do you people keep subjecting yourselves to murder and mayhem? for a couple of crowded waves? you can find those at home!!!!! :light:

jeremias - 12-14-2009 at 09:27 PM

cmon, don't try to scare me and save it all for yourself. :rolleyes:

Lots of weapons is the only answer.

The Gull - 12-16-2009 at 07:03 PM

mojo_norte - 12-16-2009 at 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by The Gull

what weapons would you suggest ?

Woooosh - 12-16-2009 at 07:59 PM

Las Vegas resorts are shutting down room towers too. Same result from two different causes. Everything goes in cycles- even madness.

I'd really like there to be more positive news about Baja retirement. No one wants the value of their retirement homes to stay depressed- on either side of the border. Mexicans are very resilient. The stores, clubs and hotels may close for a while, but they'll wait out the violence (getting much worse, not better IMHO-right now) and come back. These people don't have mortgages and college funds to worry about. They enjoy the good life when they have it and laugh and don't worry about things too much when they don't. They all understand poverty and it's no big deal.

Of course anything you can do to make their holiday brighter goes a long way. You'd be surprised how much difference $20 tip means to a family down here right now.

[Edited on 12-17-2009 by Woooosh]

arrowhead - 12-16-2009 at 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Woooosh
These people don't have mortgages and college funds to worry about.

Good old Hugo Torres has muchisimo mortgages on that hotel and condo complex. I wonder how he stays ahead of it all.

The Gull - 12-17-2009 at 07:41 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by mojo_norte

what weapons would you suggest ?

Anything large caliber and as I said before an RPG works wonders in a knife fight.

Also consider body armor for those occasional nights out on the town.