BajaNomad - Have I opened a dangerous can of PROFEPA worms? (English text added to thread below 12/13)

Have I opened a dangerous can of PROFEPA worms? (English text added to thread below 12/13)

Woooosh - 12-12-2009 at 09:39 AM

Is PROFEPA clean? (You know what I mean)

Two Baja PROFEPA inspectors came to our house to inspect the fenced area of our land concession we filed the "Denuncia Ambiental" complaint against. It took three months to get a response from PROFEPA- and only after 1200 people viewed the YouTube video we forwarded to AFN in Tijuana. The UT says it's "too local" of a story to cover, and Rosarito Cable won't touch this story.

I got a bad vibe from the guy. Although he said "I am the police to protect the beach", he had already talked with the "new owner" (the people with the shiny new mercedes SUV and Range Rover) before talking with us- the concession holders. Maybe that's because the guy called PROFEPA himself after seeing the notice we posted- not sure. The "new owner" also has made a few swings by to see if his fencing was still there (we aren't touching it)- so someone is tipping him off. The inspectors asked if we saw the people do the fencing work and we told them yes, and that we talked with the workers and also have photos of the "new owners".

We think the video evidence speaks for itself- the land is unbuildable and under water. But what do you do about people who have more money than brains? Is it possible PROFEPA men could be working with the "new owners"?

The PROFEPA inspectors are coming back Monday morning to inspect the site again. They verbally told me no buildings should be in this area at all (including the new condo tower built on top of an old foundation). They did say they had both seen the YouTube video.

We were very careful with the scripting of the videos. We focused on public safety (ensuring access to the whole beach for lifeguards) and protecting the neighborhood from further damage from water coming over the seawall. We placed no blame in the video- we only asked for a solution.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Tu47kn1Zp4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Owc56bQy0Os

Fellow Nomads- your thoughts?

[Edited on 12-12-2009 by Woooosh]

[Edited on 12-13-2009 by Woooosh]

DENNIS - 12-12-2009 at 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Woooosh

Fellow Nomads- your thoughts?

I think Video is great. The whole world should be watching your predicament take shape. Sounds like the authorities have crawled into bed with the losers. Now we get to watch them wiggle out of it.
The UT continues to build it's reputation as buttwipe. They've sold out.

wilderone - 12-12-2009 at 09:59 AM

The fencing and concession rights speak for themselves; the problem and solution seem obvious. I think you've done what you can and can't force the issue any more than you have, unless there are other agencies you could send the YouTube to for action if nothing happens.

monoloco - 12-12-2009 at 10:00 AM

From my experience with PROFEPA they are rife with corruption. A few well greased palms will get you permits for anything. I wanted to build a house and SEMARNAP wanted to charge me almost 5000 dollars for an environmental impact statement, my neighbor paid $500 to PROFEPA and cleared his land from corner to corner with no consequence.

Pompano - 12-12-2009 at 10:16 AM

Whoosh. Guess I am one of the lucky ones, then. Profepa just presented me with a clean bill of health on several issues that were of concern to myself and neighbors a year or so ago. No bribes, no nada. Just proof of legalities, age of construction, old aerial photos I had from 70's, etc. I was well prepared with documented history. Completely hassle free was my experience. I was never asked for a gratuity, nor would I have offered a bribe.

Woooosh - 12-12-2009 at 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pompano
Whoosh. Guess I am one of the lucky ones, then. Profepa just presented me with a clean bill of health on several issues that were of concern to myself and neighbors a year or so ago. No bribes, no nada. Just proof of legalities, age of construction, old aerial photos I had from 70's, etc. I was well prepared with documented history. Completely hassle free was my experience. I was never asked for a gratuity, nor would I have offered a bribe.

That's the approach I am hoping for... we have the same stuff in the video.

Please rate the video 5 stars for me and forward it to anyone you think would help.

Santiago - 12-12-2009 at 01:37 PM

Woosh:
I don't really understand what fencing does for the owners in this case. Isn't the reason someone fences a piece of bare land in Mexico is in order to establish ownership where their might be some dispute? If I understand your video, the problem is that they may want to build on this land, right? Isn't the land in the federal zone and doesn't that mean you can not build anything on it?
And what I'm really lost at is why would anyone want to build something there where there is almost certainty that it would be destroyed by water?
I must be missing a piece here.

DENNIS - 12-12-2009 at 01:48 PM

Maybe they want to build a Marina.

wessongroup - 12-12-2009 at 01:55 PM

Not sure if the issue is completely set in "concrete" when it comes to building a structure and/or building site within direct impact with the ocean...

This as the Japanese seem quite capable of building just about anything, even when it's "in" the ocean.

Please see The Kansai Airport... http://asterweb.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery-detail.asp?name=Kansai

Woooosh - 12-12-2009 at 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Santiago
Woosh:
I don't really understand what fencing does for the owners in this case. Isn't the reason someone fences a piece of bare land in Mexico is in order to establish ownership where their might be some dispute? If I understand your video, the problem is that they may want to build on this land, right? Isn't the land in the federal zone and doesn't that mean you can not build anything on it?.

We though the exact same thing- until that condo tower went up. We never thought a concession was necessary- until that darned condo went up. (Still unoccupied and they took the "for sale" sign down 2 years ago. A realtor said they are trying to sell the whole building- I suspect that's because getting individual condo papers and titles is impossible).

Some people have more money than brains. There was never a "for sale" sign on the lot which is very strange. Isn't it hard enough to sell a underwater lot with a sign on it? No sympathy from me. Who decides staking out the middle of a crescent-shaped public beach is a good place to build a house. We called them "victims" in the video (they do drive a new black Mercedes SUV after all) but how did they know it was for sale?

Sorry the videos are in Spanish. I can post the english scripts if anyone is interested.

[Edited on 12-13-2009 by Woooosh]

DENNIS - 12-13-2009 at 06:31 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Woooosh
(Still unoccupied and they took the "for sale" sign down 2 years ago. A realtor said they are trying to sell the whole building- I suspect that's because getting individual condo papers and titles is impossible).

There are resort hotels etc. throughout Mexico that have never had a vacancy or a living guest, making dirty money clean. Remember the Oasis right up by you? That was one of them. Now, what's going in there? Another hi-rise condo building? The attorney general should question the source of financing for all those places.

Packoderm - 12-13-2009 at 07:38 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Woooosh

We though the exact same thing- until that condo tower went up. We never thought a concession was necessary- until that darned condo went up. (Still unoccupied and they took the "for sale" sign down 2 years ago. A realtor said they are trying to sell the whole building- I suspect that's because getting individual condo papers and titles is impossible).

Some people have more money than brains. There was never a "for sale" sign on the lot which is very strange. Isn't it hard enough to sell a underwater lot with a sign on it? No sympathy from me. Who decides staking out the middle of a crescent-shaped public beach is a good place to build a house. We called them "victims" in the video (they do drive a new black Mercedes SUV after all) but how did they know it was for sale?

Sorry the videos are in Spanish. I can post the english scripts if anyone is interested.

[Edited on 12-13-2009 by Woooosh]

I watched it, but I would understand it better in English.

k-rico - 12-13-2009 at 08:07 AM

There are two large condo towers that were built in the past few years in Playas de Tijuana that are in the Federal Zone. The Federal Zone was recently remapped due to erosion prior to the construction but the buildings went up anyway. The remapping precluded the developer (BCBA, Mexico City) of the development I live in (La Perla) from getting the permits they needed to build the ocean front houses they had planned.

When I asked the onsite BCBA rep about how the condo towers could be built but BCBA could not do what they planned, he explained that the property owner of the tower condos had permits to build prior to the remapping which put the property in the Federal Zone.

FWIW

DENNIS - 12-13-2009 at 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by k-rico

When I asked the onsite BCBA rep about how the condo towers could be built but BCBA could not do what they planned, he explained that the property owner of the tower condos had permits to build prior to the remapping which put the property in the Federal Zone.

Wow...Is the mean high tide line shifting around that much? These contractors are fearless.

dtbushpilot - 12-13-2009 at 09:21 AM

I'd like to hear an English version as well.....thanks...dt

Osprey - 12-13-2009 at 09:29 AM

Mean high tide is the highest wet spot in a lunar epoch -- 18 years but I do not know who says "this is the first day of the epoch" or what particular day that is. I think they play a lot of games with that date. On our beach they have moved the mojones several times in the last 10 years and I think they are about to do it again because of rare innundations.

k-rico - 12-13-2009 at 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Wow...Is the mean high tide line shifting around that much? These contractors are fearless.

I've been told the last BIG el nino, I think in 1983, caused dramatic beach erosion in playas. Maybe fdt can confirm. Like I said, official remapping was recent.

I just got back from an oceanfront walk, the usually broad TJ beach is gone, the sand has been washed out, the ocean is hitting the bluff. That seldom if never happens in the summer. And it doesn't happen every winter but this winter yes.

The sand returns in the spring. I think it just gets washed out a bit off shore by storms on top of high tides.

[Edited on 12-13-2009 by k-rico]

Woooosh - 12-13-2009 at 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Wow...Is the mean high tide line shifting around that much? These contractors are fearless.

I have seen people indayglo wetsuits taking ocean measurements every year- but they do it on a day you could walk halfway out to the coronado islands at low tide. That's how the tidal lines are manipulated IMHO. Our 1975 maps of my area show the lines haven't been moved much over time- you pick the right day to measure and off you go. The pictures don't lie though.

It will be interesting to see what happens tomorrow.

Woooosh - 12-13-2009 at 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by dtbushpilot
I'd like to hear an English version as well.....thanks...dt

Here's the English script. Play the video and follow along...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Tu47kn1Zp4

• Title
• The tourists and residents of Rosarito Beach enjoy the white sand beach that is cared for by many people. The Lifeguards watch for our safety, the Rosarito Beach "Rangers" maintain the beach and many local citizens and volunteers clean the beach regularly.
• We thank them all for cleaning and taking care of the entire length of the public beach, not just the Tourist Zones as many cities do. They work very hard and we appreciate their hard work every day.
• The neighbors hold the Federal Zone (FMZ) Land Concession for this piece of beach and filed the proper complaints when an individual claimed private ownership and fenced a section. It took two years for Mexico City to approve our FMZ land concession- and we talked with the field inspectors from PROFEPA several times during that long period.
• We have asked PROFEPA to act quickly and enforce the land concession they have granted. We have no interest in placing blame- only in finding a solution for public safety.
• Villas del Mar is the lowest elevation point in the city of Rosarito Beach and the streets are just below sea level. Eight months a year the beach is sandy and usable- but it suffers badly for four months in the winter storms and high tides. Each year the water rises even higher.
• PROFEPA understands the ocean waters and this neighborhood. They have told us we need protection from the waves and they have a plan to complete the gaps in the existing sea wall and to make it taller and wider. The PROFEPA plan is not at all compatible with new buildings- as construction materials and debris carried over the seawall by the waves would seriously damage cars and existing homes. There should be no buildings remaining on the ocean-side of the sea wall at all- as they were ordered off permanently years ago .
• We know the tidal maps for land use can and have been manipulated by corrupt officials, but it only takes your eyes to see the ocean has drawn its own boundaries- and enforces it on its own. With 4500 new condos and homes for sale today in Rosarito Beach- is it really necessary to steal titled concession beach from the people of Mexico to build on?
• This old video clip shows the same beach before the new condo tower was built and before an older house was removed by its owner, as all were instructed to do by Mexico City.
• These existing buildings are still occupied though and have badly cracked and unsafe foundations. The new condo tower also shows it's old stone foundation which has caused the entire building to be unstable - with serious new cracks visible in the foundation.
• These three buildings block all beach access for people walking the beach, for the lifeguards and "Beach Rangers" and for all emergency vehicles. Everyone must go all the way out to Benito Juarez Boulevard and then back to the beach on the next street to get around them.
• This inaccessible north third of the Rosarito Public beach is where most locals and Tijuana visitors go. It is the most dangerous section of the beach because of the strong currents and the discharge of water from the PeMex plant. The lifeguard tower shown is left unmanned and the beach unguarded many busy periods- because there is no beach access.
• This north section of the beach also has construction and engineering problems. A planned 24 story tower project pumps the foul water from its foundation onto the public beach every day- for the past two years. There are also wire fences in areas where no one has obtained a FMZ concession to protect the beach as we have.
• Where engineered storm-water drains exist, they are incapable of handling significant rainfall, causing even more beach erosion.
• We believe PROFEPA understands these environmental and safety problems. We encourage PROFEPA to act quickly and physically to remove the human and physical obstructions shown here.
• The safety of the people of Villas Del Mar is dependent on the actions of PROFEPA to complete the seawall.
• The safety of tourists and we locals who use the beach depends on PROFEPA to also restore complete beach access for Lifeguards and Emergency Services.
• We look forward to continue working with PROFEPA and strongly encourage the City of Rosarito Beach to embrace and support intelligent land use for its economic future and continued prosperity as a tourist destination.
• Thank You

[Edited on 12-13-2009 by Woooosh]

surebought - 12-13-2009 at 12:12 PM

My first thought is that the person concerned who posted this video. Are you also the holder of a separate parcel Federal Zone Concession? Or just a third party concerned about the beach? You don't want to blow the whistle on yourself. Federal Zone property lines move around a lot at the discretion of profepa. I don't think its corruption at all. It's just that they didn't send an inspector out there before they issued the Concession. Now, they don't want to lose face. Most of these guys spend their life's energies trying to convince their superiors that they're not incompetent. Sooner or later they end up at immigration.

Woooosh - 12-13-2009 at 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by surebought
My first thought is that the person concerned who posted this video. Are you also the holder of a separate parcel Federal Zone Concession? Or just a third party concerned about the beach? You don't want to blow the whistle on yourself. Federal Zone property lines move around a lot at the discretion of profepa. I don't think its corruption at all. It's just that they didn't send an inspector out there before they issued the Concession. Now, they don't want to lose face. Most of these guys spend their life's energies trying to convince their superiors that they're not incompetent. Sooner or later they end up at immigration.

No. We applied for the concession when the ocean waters went over the seawall and touched our propety across the street. The neighbors all chipped in the $11K to remove two old foundations and to do the concession paperwork. We are the only Mexican citizens with clear title- so we did it in our name. A Mexican Citizen who holds clear title to land impacted directly by ocean waters is in first positon for a FMZ concession. Other people can and certainly do apply for concessions (and then sell the land or do other profit-making schemes)- but if you happen to actually own the land the water hits, you get first dibbs on a FMZ concession. At least that is my understanding.

So what trouble would we be in? Aside from the obvious. Everything is Mexican to Mexican and my FM3 is current

Sharksbaja - 12-13-2009 at 12:57 PM

"We are the only Mexican citizens..."

"...my FM3 is current"

Why does a Mexican National need an FM3?

[Edited on 12-13-2009 by Sharksbaja]

surebought - 12-13-2009 at 02:34 PM

It accures to me that you might be Americans of Mexican decent from what you are saying. None of what I suggested applies - if this is the case. You have to get your own Sindicato to look out for your interests en la Republica. Certain cultural advantages and and a few major disadvantages apply to you and not to the 100% foreigners. But if this was happening me and it was that important, I would go over to the local profepa office(is it Tijuana or Rosarito?) and make friends with the 3 or 4 Secrataries that run that office. They do all the work and know all the tricks and they know all the the bad guys. And they will tell you all about it if your just nice to them(and speak perfect Spanish with a Gringo accent). You won't even have to buy them Coffee, just remember their names. But it is not me that this problem is happening to - and if you tried this it might make things worse. Did you open a can of worms? Time will tell. Keep us posted.

Woooosh - 12-13-2009 at 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sharksbaja
"We are the only Mexican citizens..."

"...my FM3 is current"

Why does a Mexican National need an FM3?

[Edited on 12-13-2009 by Sharksbaja]

How about being married to one

All mixed couples around here. Gringos with latinas that really know how to cook and keep a house. Huge families. Isn't that what all Gueros want in retirement?
:saint:

The wife has dual citizensip and I have the FM3. Don't most couples talk about themsleves in plural- like "we?" :?:

Woooosh - 12-13-2009 at 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by surebought
It accures to me that you might be Americans of Mexican decent from what you are saying. None of what I suggested applies - if this is the case. You have to get your own Sindicato to look out for your interests en la Republica. Certain cultural advantages and and a few major disadvantages apply to you and not to the 100% foreigners. But if this was happening me and it was that important, I would go over to the local profepa office(is it Tijuana or Rosarito?) and make friends with the 3 or 4 Secrataries that run that office. They do all the work and know all the tricks and they know all the the bad guys. And they will tell you all about it if your just nice to them(and speak perfect Spanish with a Gringo accent). You won't even have to buy them Coffee, just remember their names. But it is not me that this problem is happening to - and if you tried this it might make things worse. Did you open a can of worms? Time will tell. Keep us posted.

Thanks- good points. Everyone over at the office was nice, very nice actually. We met them and chatted when we filed the "Duncia Ambiental". Very nice- but three months and no action on that darned fence! The videos got us a PROFEPA inspection in six days. We knew the longer it took them to act/decide- the less likely it would go in our favor.

The other part of why we wanted action was a local boogie-boarder kid applied, paid for, and was granted permission by SEMARNAT to rent umbrellas and chairs on that very lot. He gave us photos of his chair/umbrella "set-ups" with the SEMARNAT application approval since we have the concession. After every rainy season he would re-build a 10x20 foot "island" out of 100 huge flour-sacks of sand and paint them. Then he'd fill it and put iceplant and whatever trees he could fine on top- usually Banana. We called it "gilligan's island". He would sit perched up there under an umbrella watching the surf with his surfer-friends. He would rent umbrellas and chairs to tourists for whatever amount they wanted to give him and usually made about 300 pesos on a good day. Sept/Oct are the absolute nicest beach weather months here- and it wasn't fair of those people to fence it off and deprive him of that income. He complained to SEMARNAT for a refund of the annual fee and they said "no". I like to see kids like that take intiative and work for their money. They helped with the video.

We'll see what happens after the second inspection tomorrow morning. We handed them the video on DVD Friday- so they have seen it too.

I don't think this area has been on their radar at all and we caught them flat-footed.

Thanks for all the U2U's.

It does look like PROFEPA can indeed act when it wants to:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QePogrbAfnE

Where do I got those PROFEPA CLAUSURADO signs? I'm good on the duct tape.

[Edited on 12-14-2009 by Woooosh]

I'm having a hard time...

Dave - 12-13-2009 at 07:35 PM

Following this story.

1. You applied for and got a concession in the federal zone. For how long?

2. Now someone else has an deed for the parcel... or is it a concession?

3. Was the property rezoned or is the deed fraudulent?

Woooosh - 12-13-2009 at 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave
Following this story.

1. You applied for and got a concession in the federal zone. For how long?

2. Now someone else has an deed for the parcel... or is it a concession?

3. Was the property rezoned or is the deed fraudulent?

1. The Title is good for 15 years. You pay the fee due each year at the Rosarito Palacio.We applied for and received a ZMF Concession Ambiental- to protect the land. The application was submitted 06/2006 and we got the title in 06/2008. We had all but given up on it (seriously) when the people from the Rosarito SEMARNAT office two streets over came to the house to ask us to come over and get it. (It's a binder full of sections actually)

2. We do not know what paperwork the other person has. We talked to his lawyer who said they had a title. (That conversation is a funny story unto itself). They did not seem to know this lot was under water part of the year so we brought down some pics. One of those priceless moments for us.

3. He is not from the family ordered off the property a decade ago. I am speculating that since this only happens on lots where old foundations exist- it is easier to resurrect and "old title" than to find a way to create one. The condo tower was built quickly (too quickly) on an old foundation.

Seems to be a spot in the system where people at low level in the Palacio can manipulate the title. We think it is because previous owners stop paying their property taxes on land they were ordered off of years ago. I would have. These sales are kept hush-hush with no "for sale" signs. One day the fence appears with a "Private property" sign on it. The other house (broken foundation) is occupied by a squatter - who honestly thinks she bought the legal title from another squatter who lived there before her.

thanks for the thinking points.

[Edited on 12-14-2009 by Woooosh]

Woooosh - 12-14-2009 at 02:46 PM

Quick re-cap of today's PROFEPA inspection:

1- This was the inspection to generate a report from our "Denuncia Ambiental" complaint filed in September. This is the beginning of the process (the first three months waiting for any action was ended only by the Video I suspect). We were hoping for answers and they were just beginning to ask questions...
2- The two PROFEPA men Friday were the bosses, this guy today was the worker-bee who got to sit for two hours, check our papers and payments page by page and write the reports long hand with carbon paper.
3- He verified our concession was current, in order and legal. He found an "error" on the SEMARNAT concession map though. They did not grant us the full amount of land we had applied and were eligible for. He wrote a report for us to take to the local SEMARNAT office to have them correct their error. This part I do not like.
4- He kept the photo of the ocean water coming over the seawall to touch our house and had us sign it. Not sure what they wanted a hard-copy. He did show us the most recent FMZ line was 12 meters (about 39 feet) from the seawall. The building lots are 30 meters deep- so half the depth of the fenced lot is on FMZ land and half is on the "Terrano Ganados". He said the photo evidence may move the FMZ line all the way to the seawall. No one is supposed to build on either the FMZ or Terrano Ganados he said.
5- Now that the investigation is officially started- they will determine who has claimed ownership of the fenced area, and how they got the title. They are very interested in this aspect- but had to wait to check our papers before investigating further.
6- We are NOT allowed to touch the fencing. He said the ocean will take it away. (I have a hard time understanding why PROFEPA would allow buried barbed wire on the beach- I won't). With the instructions not to take it down, as the fence poles do fall into the water and lay flat on the beach I am moving them and the attached wire back towards the seawall from the surf.
7- Sit and wait for the second video to keep them moving on this. Continue to document the saga on video.

(It has occurred to us that since profepa says the entire area is likely either FMZ or Terranos Ganados- why bother applying/renewing for the FMZ concession at all? The only answer I have is that the lady who works in my local SEMARNAT office is the one everyone says sold the permit to build that condo tower on the old foundation for $500. I don't want her to see any weakness among the neighbors to protect the beach.)

Santiago - 12-14-2009 at 03:45 PM

Woooosh: I'm lost on the fencing thing but maybe fencing has greater meaning in Mexico:
1. You have a kind of Title to this land which you believe to be valid.
2. Someone else also claims title and puts up a sign and a fence.
3. What's the big deal about tearing the fence and sign down? Why is PROFEPA telling you not to tear it down - are they concerned for your personal safety or is it a criminal action to tear it down.
4. Surely, as soon as the ocean knocks down the fence, you could then remove it under the rights that your title gives you per the ZMF Concession Ambiental, your right to protect the land.
5. What's to stop you from putting up your own boundary markers with signs indicating your rights and allowing others to use the area for recreation purposes? Wouldn't the other guy have to go complain to PROFEPA and wouldn't he then be warned not to tear down your 'fence'?

I don't get the fence stuff.

You can and most probably would...

Dave - 12-14-2009 at 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Santiago
3. What's the big deal about tearing the fence and sign down? Why is PROFEPA telling you not to tear it down - are they concerned for your personal safety or is it a criminal action to tear it down.

Go to jail.

It's called "destruction of property". Even though it may be on your property it's his fence, bought and paid for. I had a friend who spent three days in jail for this very reason.

As amazing as this might seem, I'm not making this crap up. :lol:

Woooosh - 12-14-2009 at 05:54 PM

Dave- I think you are right. EVERYONE wants at that fence- but the wife said it's a big no-no too. I'll just move the fence and wire back as the sand releases the fence posts. I really hate what burried barbed wire in sand does to dogs and children.

Snr. Santiago- I don't get the fence thing either. Why did they even bother to fence it? Why broadcast bad intentions? Have they hired a boat-builder yet? Only reason I can figure is to either show it off to friends (The guy and his lady friend posed for pics) or as a test to see if anyone complains. If no one complains- they take over the whole area for their new marina. The PROFEPA wants to know how this is happening (twice now in 100 meters and both on old foundations).

Either they are complicit in a title-scam land sale, are very stupid consumers or both. There was no "for sale" sign ever on it- so it was a private deal.

Santiago - 12-14-2009 at 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave

Quote:

Yes you are. This can't be the way it works.

And what about the guy defacing your property with some crappy fence. How much jail time is that worth? What if the guy BUYS some garbage and then PAYS for someone to dump it on your property - you're not allowed to clean it up and haul it off just because he paid for it?
No, I'm suspecting that a fence is a statement of ownership in some way and is possibly a required step in the process of proving ones claim, but I'm just guessing here. I know nothing about Mexican Real Estate Law but I'm guessing that possession is a pretty big deal.
The road south of the town of Bahia de los Angeles has over the last few years seen fences and signs go up and go down. They're up now with someone living in a trailer, wash hanging on the line, painted rocks and everything. Somebody is trying real hard to make it look like this is their land.

Woooosh - 12-14-2009 at 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Santiago

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave

Quote:

We have squatters that live in the white house with the cracked foundation. She's remodelling the kitchen onher "retirement home" because foundation work is too expesive she says. There is a legal process where squatters in Mexico can become the owners

But really- does this nice couple look like land thieves?

Dave - 12-14-2009 at 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Santiago

Yes you are. This can't be the way it works.

Until it's adjudicated you can't touch the fence. He put it up...he owns it. You'll go to jail if you try. Bet me. :biggrin:

Woosh, I'm this guy is a bit of a gambler. Bought tainted property on the cheap and thinks he'll get away with it. I wouldn't know what to make of his odds but seeing the Mercedes made me shorten them a bit.

Woooosh - 12-14-2009 at 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave

Quote:

Originally posted by Santiago

Yes you are. This can't be the way it works.

Until it's adjudicated you can't touch the fence. He put it up...he owns it. You'll go to jail if you try. Bet me. :biggrin:

Yeah- I thought the odds might be stacked against us in the $$$ and influence department with the black Benz (and a Range Rover). She was camera shy and bailed into the car and hid after the first picture. He either bought it cheap, is a "test" for a larger land grab, or traded it for someone. That's why I didn't want to wait any longer for PROFEPA action and let the kids do the YouTube videos.

The underwater footage should decrease the interest in using it. We made them a co-victim in the video to save face. He and his lawyer both claim to have a title and PROFEPA wants to know how that happened. How he acts next will show us what he is made of. So far he's not a do-it-yourself fence person though. We really don't care who he is or how he got there- all we want is for him to build his princess her castle on higher ground. Besides- none of this title stuff even matters- it's FMZ land and that maritime map overlay from Mexico City is king.

A lot Mexican companies and gov't agencies use the Youtube for their official videos- because it's fast, easy and free. We sent the link to dozens of Mexican officials- they weren't afraid to open a YouTube link and watch.

We were passing out ice tea to the volunteers raking the beach today and they had seen themselves in the video. Lot's of support from them. The YouTube link was has done us well so far.

We had been under the impression they had already been researching the fence issue the past two months. We were surprised this is official start of the process. You know it's official when the carbon paper comes out.

[Edited on 12-15-2009 by Woooosh]

Dave - 12-14-2009 at 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Woooosh
The underwater footage should decrease their interest in using it.

Maybe he just wants someone to pay him to 'go away'.

Woooosh - 12-14-2009 at 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave

Quote:

Originally posted by Woooosh
The underwater footage should decrease their interest in using it.

Maybe he just wants someone to pay him to 'go away'.

Nah- He obviously has more money than brains. Not a common problem in Mexico.

Maybe he bought the resurrected title from someone he knew. Maybe now he wants his money back or for them to pay for his flood insurance. Maybe the person who sold it doesn't have the money to give back. PROFEPA will be able to trace the title. I gave them the original 1975 Lot Plot map for the fraccionamiento.