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puffers

absinvestor - 12-15-2009 at 11:15 AM

I have read a couple of comments about puffers but I don't know what they are. We travel with a couple of dogs and I understand that puffers make dogs sick etc. We will be spending two or three months on both the Sea of Cortez side and the Pacific Ocean side of Baja Norte and Baja Sur. What are puffers and do dogs have to eat them to get sick? Thanks Ron

gnukid - 12-15-2009 at 11:22 AM

Here is a puffer fish. When they get frightened they puff up and the spines point out to protect it, though in many cases it seems the puffing causes the fish to be unable to swim and the wave action forces it on to shore where it it poses risks to beach walers and dogs. Teach your dogs to leave it alone and pick them up when you find them on the beach.

Apparently the puffer is poisonous yet also parts are edible and it is a fine dilicacy in Japan. There are many varieties and its possible they will become farm fish as there is edible meat.

http://neurophilosophy.wordpress.com/2006/05/24/voodoo-zombi...

bonanzapilot - 12-15-2009 at 11:24 AM

They look like a ****** bag with spikes! You will have no trouble in identifying this little fish, usually about a foot long, a foot around and very prickly. They wash up dead on many beaches, and the spines are poisonous, so watch your puppies!

absinvestor - 12-15-2009 at 11:47 AM

Thanks. I didn't see any when we lived on the Pacific Ocean side of Baja Norte so I'm guessing they like the warmer water. I appreciate the info. Ron

David A. - 12-15-2009 at 12:19 PM

I have heard that if some or certain internal organs are eaten, the dog will expire within 90 mins. Paulina can verify this.

Taco de Baja - 12-15-2009 at 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by absinvestor
Thanks. I didn't see any when we lived on the Pacific Ocean side of Baja Norte so I'm guessing they like the warmer water. I appreciate the info. Ron

There are some without spines in the cold Pacific waters of Baja Norte, I have caught several. Tossed them all back.

Russ - 12-15-2009 at 12:46 PM

Not all puffers have spines. In fact the kind that have killed the dogs here have no spines but have a distinctive shape. The bad ones here are only 3" to 5" and have a somewhat purple coloring and are slimy. Of what I have been told it is their spleen that is toxic and once broken any part of the puffer can be fatal. Any one with info should chime in here because it is important for us dog lovers to be informed.

vacaenbaja - 12-15-2009 at 01:25 PM

People in Puerto Penasco eat the things all the time. Fry em up as fish tacos. I suppose like the chefs in Japan they are carefull to cut out all the more toxic parts like the internal viscera ,skin etc. Even so i would not be game to try em although I have heard that the flesh is tastey. Do a web search on the area and the practice of eating the fish.

bajajudy - 12-15-2009 at 01:33 PM

We always carry hydrogen peroxide for this. Force some down your dogs throat and he/she will throw up.

Jack Swords - 12-15-2009 at 02:23 PM

Actually the fish pictured is the porcupine fish commonly found on the Baja beaches. It is related to the puffers, which do not have the heavy spines. The ovaries and liver are very toxic. They are easy to catch when diving as they rely on their spines for protection and will swell up (balloon like). They fill with water or even air when held above the water. Air filled ones float upside down on the surface and are helpless. I have been told that many found on the beaches were caught in shrimp nets, therefore filled with air, then dumped into the sea, floating into shore.

ELINVESTIG8R - 12-15-2009 at 02:44 PM

Myself and other investigators ate Puffer Fish Sashimi once while at a Japanese party on Okinawa Japan back in 1985. After we ate it, our Japanese host gave us a broad smile and said "Guess what" Puffer fish is deadly if not prepared by a trained person. Oh thanks a-lot!

roamingthroughbaja - 12-15-2009 at 03:12 PM

We've eaten it both on the grill and in ceviche. Delicious. To clean it correctly you make a T cut across the neck and down the belly. The skin and insides should come off/out whole...in one piece...and what remains is lots of white meat that tastes better than lobster. IMHO

elgatoloco - 12-15-2009 at 03:43 PM

My brother and sister in law were walking their dog on the beach in Baja norte and the dog ate a dead puffer that had washed up on the beach. They rushed the dog home and to the vet. After two weeks in the pet hospital and $13,000.00 the dog made it. The only lasting affect was blindness in one eye.

We have eaten fugu that was served to us by our favorite sushi chef. It was not that tasty but it was fun to try.

Pufferfish = Fugu (Maybe More Than You Want to Know)

Gypsy Jan - 12-15-2009 at 04:13 PM

"Fugu is the Japanese word for pufferfish and is also a Japanese dish prepared from the meat of pufferfish (normally species of Takifugu, Lagocephalus, or Sphoeroides) or porcupinefish of the genus Diodon. Because pufferfish is lethally poisonous if prepared incorrectly, fugu has become one of the most celebrated and notorious dishes in Japanese cuisine."

"Fugu contains lethal amounts of the poison tetrodotoxin in the organs, especially the liver and ovaries, and also the skin. The poison, a sodium channel blocker, paralyzes the muscles while the victim stays fully conscious, and eventually dies from asphyxiation. Currently, there is no known antidote, and the standard medical approach is to try to support the respiratory and circulatory system until the poison wears off."

"As of 2008, advances in fugu research and farming have allowed some farmers to mass produce non-toxic fugu. Researchers surmised that fugu's tetrodotoxin came from eating other animals that had the tetrodotoxin-laden bacteria, and developed immunity over time. Many farmers now are producing 'poison-free' fugu by keeping the fugu away from tetrodotoxin-laden bacteria. Usuki, a town in Ōita Prefecture, became famous for selling non-poisonous fugu. No one has been poisoned eating it"

Skeet/Loreto - 12-15-2009 at 04:35 PM

Be very careful about eating any Puffers in Baja,
Skeet

mulegejim - 12-15-2009 at 05:20 PM

DO NOT MESS WITH IT !!!

Don Alley - 12-15-2009 at 06:50 PM

Lots of these around. I know people who eat them.

Some of the internal organs are very poisonous, especially the liver. And the skin can reportedly kill you too.

Puffers are the most common fish found washed up on the shore, hence the potential danger to dogs.

Packoderm - 12-15-2009 at 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Don Alley

Once we were camping at Playa Escondidia, and I found one washed up on the beach. I had a fire going in front of the palapa, and just for fun I put the puffer on the grill. I got some pretty interesting reactions from people walking by.

Ken Bondy - 12-15-2009 at 07:01 PM

To my knowledge the dangerous "fugu" fish is the one shown in Don Alley's post. I have never heard anyone say that the porcupine fish in gnukid's post is toxic/dangerous although I can't imagine anyone would eat one. Speaking of dangerous fish, parrotfish commonly carry ciguatera but are often eaten. Like most grazers their flesh is delicious (think lobster) but it comes with a risk.

Ken Bondy - 12-15-2009 at 07:05 PM

How could anyone eat something so cute?

norte - 12-15-2009 at 08:10 PM

Shoot I thought this thread was related to the Marijuana post.

Pescador - 12-15-2009 at 08:24 PM

The fish shown by Don Alley is a Bull's Eye Puffer fish and is very poisonous if not cleaned correctly. The Mexican like this fish a lot but it has to be cleaned exactly as reported because if you puncture the liver or other internal organs is very toxic and deadly. I have caught them up to 8 or 9 pounds so there is a lot of meat there but I have always had a Mexican friend clean them and eat the first batch.
If they die and wash up on the beach they are usually contaminated with the poison and dogs as well as other predators die very quickly when consuming the meat, if tainted.
They are called Botete by the mexicans.

rts551 - 12-15-2009 at 08:30 PM

Must be why the gulls leave them alone :lol:

we have a lot of them on the beaches here. Pain for surf fishing since I haven't tried to eat them yet.

grace59 - 12-15-2009 at 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ken Bondy
To my knowledge the dangerous "fugu" fish is the one shown in Don Alley's post. I have never heard anyone say that the porcupine fish in gnukid's post is toxic/dangerous although I can't imagine anyone would eat one. Speaking of dangerous fish, parrotfish commonly carry ciguatera but are often eaten. Like most grazers their flesh is delicious (think lobster) but it comes with a risk.

Are there any fish in the Sea of Cortez that carry Ciguatera? I talked to some people in the Bahamas who have had it and it can be very nasty. But, I haven't heard of anyone in Baja having had it. If so, which fish should you avoid?

Sunman - 12-15-2009 at 10:17 PM

Stubbed my toe on one of them at night in Enenada Blanca once...hurt like heck for an hour, wasn't pleasant.

Ken Bondy - 12-15-2009 at 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by grace59

Quote:

grace59
Parrotfish are known to carry ciguatera and there are lots of parrotfish in the Sea of Cortez, but I too have never heard of anyone in Baja contracting ciguatera.

Mulegena - 12-15-2009 at 11:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ken Bondy
How could anyone eat something so cute?

... and they're so fun. They sleep at night and scuba divers can come right up and pet 'em!

shari - 12-16-2009 at 08:13 AM

this year, some campers in san roque unfortunately had to bury their dog there as it probaby ate a dead pufferfish on the beach...the healthy dog got very sick and died the same day so watch your dog carefully....puffers are everywhere.

dean miller - 12-16-2009 at 08:27 AM

Let eliminate I think, I suppose, I belive...

There is a two volume book "Poisonous and venomous Marine Animals of the world" by Dr Bruce Halstead, LCCC 65-60000 published by the US Government printing office. Volume 1 is 994 Pages, Volume 11 consists of 1070 pages and completing the set volume 111 consists of 1006 8 -1/2 X 11 well illustrated pages (3070 pages) It has been recognized since it's publication over 40 years ago as the definitive base line work on dangerous marine life.

It's original publication price was $160.00 hard earned Yankee dollars. Some years ago a beat up well used research set sold for $750.00 on E bay, so I suspect that most do not have or have never seen or possibly heard of the set.

Yes I have a set -- Inscribed to me by Dr Halstead

Now on to Fugu...

Volume number two devotes pages 680 to 902 (222 pages -but who is counting? ) to the world wide distribution, preparation, consumption toxic effects and treatment puffers.

On page 732 Dr. Halstead identifies the relative toxicity of the anatomy of the puffer as follows;
Ovary...Most poisonous
Liver ...Most poisonous
Stomach...a close third
Skin...toxic except in the "tarofugu" (?)
Blood...Innocuous
Kidney...Poisonous
Sub cutaneous tissues...Poisonous
Eye Balls...poisonous
Fins ...Toxic in most except the Tarofugu
Parasites --said to be non toxic but should not be consumed.

Hope this clarifies Fugu

<<Pescador -- Appreciate your knowledgeable comment on Fugu.....Really miss the times and wonderful discussion we had for so many wonderful years with you and your dear departed wife SDM>>

Paulina - 12-16-2009 at 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by David A.
I have heard that if some or certain internal organs are eaten, the dog will expire within 90 mins. Paulina can verify this.

David,

I think between the four of us, the beach between our place and Camp Gecko should be the most puffer free beach in baja.

I've posted the story before, but our bullmastiff Rosie ate one whole, in one big swallow. (she was a pig in disguise) She started acting wierd, threw it back up and slept for three days.

Our neighbor had a visitor arrive, her Welsh Corgy jumped out of the car, ran to the beach, ate a puffer in the same time it took for everyone to greet each other. She died within hours.

I am very concerned about our pup as he is the king of collecting dead crabs and bird parts on the sly. It's going to be a tough job keeping an eyeball on him this holiday.

P<*)))>{

elizabeth - 12-16-2009 at 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ken Bondy
How could anyone eat something so cute?

They really are adorable...but I get annoyed with divers who insist on catching them and making them inflate...not good for the fish...not very sporting for the diver.

As for questions about ciguatera poisoning...I think the reason it is common in the caribbean and south pacific is that it is caused by an algae that grows on dying hard corals. Since there aren't any (to speak of) hard corals in the SOC, I'm guessing that's why you don't hear about it in Baja.

Mulegena - 12-16-2009 at 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by elizabeth
They really are adorable...but I get annoyed with divers who insist on catching them and making them inflate...not good for the fish...not very sporting for the diver.

Divers are in a unique position to educate themselves, other divers and the general public about the underwater world. We know a bit about what's down there and should strive to protect and respect it. Perhaps our basic diver training certification class should teach a unit on the ethics of diving and marine conservation.

elizabeth - 12-16-2009 at 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mulegena

Quote:

You're absolutely right on there!

Martyman - 12-16-2009 at 09:35 AM

My friend swears his son got Ciguatera from reef fish around Mulege in the 1990s. He was sick for a month.
Puffers always follow me when I go snorkeling-I guess as long as I don't eat them I'll be fine.

Ken Bondy - 12-16-2009 at 09:58 AM

I confess that when I started diving (40 years ago) I caught and annoyed a few porcupine fish and caused them to inflate. I did it because I saw others do it - it was somehow fashionable. People did it, I think, because they could. But after watching the apparent agony they go through when they deflate (has anybody here ever seen that?) I stopped and have never done it again (note the slim, stylish profile in the one I posted

). Inflation is a defense mechanism designed to prevent the animal from being eaten. One can only imagine the stress produced in the whole process. I encourage divers to NEVER harass these interesting animals.

[Edited on 12-16-2009 by Ken Bondy]

capt. mike - 12-16-2009 at 10:30 AM

"but I have always had a Mexican friend clean them and eat the first batch.
If they die and wash up on the beach they are usually contaminated with the poison and dogs as well as other predators die very quickly when consuming the meat, if tainted."

Jim - if who dies??!!..... the Mexican food taster or the fish?
wow...shades of King Arthur's court and times. :lol:

Ken Bondy - 12-16-2009 at 12:02 PM

Quote:

elizabeth, I just want to make it VERY clear that the porcupine fish in the photo I posted was NOT inflated, touched, or molested in any way (other than a little temporary blinding by the strobes

). They are fairly curious little fish and will approach a diver very closely if you do not make any threatening moves.

[Edited on 12-16-2009 by Ken Bondy]

Mulegena - 12-16-2009 at 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ken Bondy

Quote:

elizabeth, I just want to make it VERY clear that the porcupine fish in the photo I posted was NOT inflated, touched, or molested in any way (other than a little temporary blinding by the strobes

). They are fairly curious little fish and will approach a diver very closely if you do not make any threatening moves.

[Edited on 12-16-2009 by Ken Bondy]

Nor have I harmed any marine life while diving, unless unwittingly. I used to gather trash while I dived but realized that little critters quickly adopt cans bottles and such for habitation. Now I gather only what is newly deposited and clearly not somebody's new house.

We can bring the same ethics to our underwater life as we do to our topside living. I try to live neutrally buoyant, choose to be overweighted sometimes but I've found I can compensate with a little trim.

Diver - 12-16-2009 at 01:18 PM

One solution is a soft muzzle for off-leash times before you can teach them to avoid dead fish.

A buddy of mine used the firecracker in the dead fish trick a number of times to teach his dogs to stay clear.

m.jpg - 11kB

elizabeth - 12-16-2009 at 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ken Bondy

Quote:

elizabeth, I just want to make it VERY clear that the porcupine fish in the photo I posted was NOT inflated, touched, or molested in any way (other than a little temporary blinding by the strobes

). They are fairly curious little fish and will approach a diver very closely if you do not make any threatening moves.

[Edited on 12-16-2009 by Ken Bondy]

It was obvious that your fish was not molested...and yes, I know they can be very curious...I've seen the same view as your photo through my mask...I've had them follow me on a dive...and they even, in the shallows on the beach on Coronado, swam around my grandson's ankles while he held very still! I love seeing them, they have such a sweet comical look!

jureal - 12-17-2009 at 05:34 PM

Good tuna bait! Very hardy swimmers. Put one on and it will last all day unless eaten first.

Don Alley - 12-17-2009 at 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jureal
Good tuna bait! Very hardy swimmers. Put one on and it will last all day unless eaten first.

Now that I didn't know.

Are the tuna immune to the poison, or can you use a puffer as bait and catch a 250 lb tuna on 20lb test? :lol:

Then can you eat the tuna? :lol:

jureal - 12-18-2009 at 02:10 PM

Not sure if they are poisonous but we did use them at the Hurricane Bank and they did catch tuna. And yes, they were used to catch tuna in excess of 200# and they were eaten.

Oso - 12-19-2009 at 12:30 PM

Many years ago during one of my first forays beyond TJ, I caught one of the slick skinned variety in San Felipe. I skinned, cleaned and cooked and ate it. I had no idea how dangerous that was. I'm still here so I guess I was just lucky.

Years later I caught two at Laguna Manuela and had completely forgotten the first one. I asked a couple of passing Mexicans if they were good to eat. They answered in the affirmative so I got ready to prepare them. Then I vaguely remembered something I saw in Gene Kira's book. I pulled out my copy and looked up puffers in the fish profiles. Kira said he once saw a seagull pecking on a dead one on the beach. The gull dropped over dead within minutes. Kira is of Japanese descent but he says there is no way he'll eat one. I opted for a can of pork n beans instead.

Attack of the Fugu!

Sharksbaja - 12-20-2009 at 03:11 AM

..or... Porcupine Parade

[Edited on 12-20-2009 by Sharksbaja]

Fugu.jpg - 34kB

wessongroup - 12-20-2009 at 05:03 AM

Thanks for all the information and great photo's...