BajaNomad - Quick question for Law Enforcement Nomads

Quick question for Law Enforcement Nomads

DianaT - 12-19-2009 at 01:05 PM

Our son lives in Montana where it is legal to carry guns anywhere. He is on his way to California, and then Baja---driving right now.

I cannot find the answer to his question. Is it legal to carry a loaded gun in a travel trailer in California---is it considered like a residence? He knows that it is illegal in the truck.

To keep it Baja, I will also ask about Baja, -----

[Edited on 12-19-2009 by DianaT]

soulpatch - 12-19-2009 at 01:24 PM

Good question.

wessongroup - 12-19-2009 at 01:44 PM

12026.1. (a) Section 12025 shall not be construed to prohibit any
citizen of the United States over the age of 18 years who resides or
is temporarily within this state, and who is not prohibited by state
or federal law from possessing, receiving, owning, or purchasing a
firearm, from transporting or carrying any pistol, revolver, or other
firearm capable of being concealed upon the person, provided that
the following applies to the firearm:
(1) The firearm is within a motor vehicle and it is locked in the
vehicle's trunk or in a locked container in the vehicle other than
the utility or glove compartment.
(2) The firearm is carried by the person directly to or from any
motor vehicle for any lawful purpose and, while carrying the firearm,
the firearm is contained within a locked container.
(b) The provisions of this section do not prohibit or limit the
otherwise lawful carrying or transportation of any pistol, revolver,
or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person in
accordance with this chapter.
(c) As used in this section, "locked container" means a secure
container which is fully enclosed and locked by a padlock, key lock,
combination lock, or similar locking device.

DianaT - 12-19-2009 at 01:49 PM

I found that wessongroup---but it does not answer the specific question.

I have googled and checked the state laws and cannot find the answer-----

Especially when parked, is a Travel Trailer considered a residence---thus different laws regarding guns apply?

Thanks

Intent

wessongroup - 12-19-2009 at 01:53 PM

It's most likely going to be a call on the site, by the officer and/or officers on how they view the situation

Believe it will get into "probable cause" if he were stopped on the freeway going South.. why would one be going to one's travel trailer to inspect?

I would just tell them the "truth".... has always worked for me with law enforcement when stopped on just about any thing.. and when I worked enforcement we tried to work it that way...

Ask a lawyer, you get a lot of different calls on one issue, which is really very simple.. KISS bring up anything

would add, there is no law written that covers "every" situation one encounters in the field, that's why lawyers have plenty of work.. they are always being asked for an "interpretation" on a new situation that does not "seem" to be covered... by an existing law.. would suggest the intent be considered in the reading of the Law and Regulations..

[Edited on 12-19-2009 by wessongroup]

[Edited on 12-19-2009 by wessongroup]

capt. mike - 12-19-2009 at 02:03 PM

that "trailer" is not a residence.
it is a recreational VEHICLE.

do not bring guns or ammo into mexico - you're just inviting a painful experience.

DianaT - 12-19-2009 at 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by capt. mike
that "trailer" is not a residence.
it is a recreational VEHICLE.

do not bring guns or ammo into mexico - you're just inviting a painful experience.

OK, so do you know the laws for a Trailer that is a Recreational Vehicle that someone uses as a temporary residence while they camp? Or in his case, he does live in it while doing his business away from home.

[Edited on 12-19-2009 by DianaT]

ELINVESTIG8R - 12-19-2009 at 02:22 PM

Diana here is the California Laws about carrying firearms in California Penal Code Sections 12020 through 12040. It’s long winded. There is info about proper storage and some vague reference to temporary residence and campsite, etc. Motor home is not specifically mentioned only motor vehicle. Give it a read.

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=pen&am...

Something from the Office of the California Attorney General.

http://www.ag.ca.gov/firearms/travel.php#skipToContentAnchor

Frequently Asked Questions of the Highway Patrol website

http://www.chp.ca.gov/html/answers.html

[Edited on 12-19-2009 by ELINVESTI8]

wessongroup - 12-19-2009 at 02:27 PM

What and/or who's definition are you using for "residence".. ??? and thought you were talking about California only...

For what it's worth, I seem to remember that a Trailer was not a residence until it was on blocks and/or the wheels were removed.. I don't remember the Regulation and it's been very many years ..... but, seem to recall that interpretation by the State of California, not a County or City. Those can be more restrictive in their call, but can not be lesser...

I'm with capt. mike.. just leave it in Montana...

mulegemichael - 12-19-2009 at 02:28 PM

as a ranger in washington state we were instructed to treat an rv as one's residence in regard to legal matters...ie..a search warrant is required, a law enforcement officer cannot enter it unless there is an active physical threat to people..OR..if the officer SEES an illegal act being committed...OR...if the officer smells pot smoke...in other words, i would say it's fine...that doesn't address a person carrying on his person, however

BMG - 12-19-2009 at 02:34 PM

Your question asks about a 'loaded' gun. Carrying the unloaded gun in the trailer and the ammo in the truck would be legal. Just have your son load it before slipping it under his pillow at night.

Gunning in California

MrBillM - 12-19-2009 at 02:35 PM

Vehicle Applies. Residence does NOT.

A few years back, there was a news article regarding a Tourist who was a retired Full-Time RVer. ON his RV, he had posted a bumper sticker which read something like "Protected by Smith & Wesson". Questioned by California Law Enforcement officers at a traffic stop "Is that True ?" He answered yes and explained. At which point, they searched the vehicle, seized the weapon and placed him under arrest for illegal possession of a firearm in a vehicle.

As a trivial aside, for a long time after reading that article, I drove around with a sticker on my work truck that said "Caution .45 on board". Unfortunately, I was never stopped.
If I HAD been, I would have happily handed over one of the 45 RPM records I carried behind the seat. Probably wouldn't have been a good idea, though. Those guys have little sense of humor. I eventually threw away the sticker, but the records are still there in case I change my mind.

BTW, when "Actually" carrying my .45 in that truck, my "ploy" was to claim that it was in the LOCKED toolbox outside the passenger compartment and I carried the magazine separately. While not true, I figured that, if a crisis moment arose, whatever witnesses there were wouldn't be able to conclusively counter the claim. Never had the occasion to find out.

DianaT - 12-19-2009 at 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BMG
Your question asks about a 'loaded' gun. Carrying the unloaded gun in the trailer and the ammo in the truck would be legal. Just have your son load it before slipping it under his pillow at night.

Very practical advice as it appears that the answer is very unclear. And while working, he is often in some pretty remote areas so for him, leaving it home is not something he would do. I think it is a little of the Montana thing. :biggrin:

And, he has traveled a lot in Baja and he knows not to take it there.

Thanks and even after reading all those laws, well, it does seem to be one of those maybe, maybe not laws.

Diane

Diver - 12-19-2009 at 02:50 PM

The answer is complicated;

If you carry the gun in the truck, it must be separated from the bullets, in a locked box or in the trunk. The weapon may not be accessible to any passenger while underway.

If the gun is in a towed/carried camper, the weapon would be inaccessible to passengers in the vehicle and therefore legal while you are hauling.
When you enter the camper, you are now within access of a loaded weapon which is not legal; unless your camper is set-up in a location that could, either temporarily or permanently be considered a residence or domicile.

Bottom line; it's best to unload and keep the ammo separate unless he is camped for the night(s) in a campground (not on the side of the road or in a rest area).

Does he need a place to camp in southeast Washington ? Give him our phone #.

.

DENNIS - 12-19-2009 at 03:00 PM

Where is Bajaguy when you need him. He knows all this stuff.

Where are you

wessongroup - 12-19-2009 at 03:01 PM

He's fixing a broken water pipe at his place.. but it's getting close to 5 so he should be getting cleaned up by now... :lol:

would say keep it in a locked container inside the trailer and he would be fine, except if he needs it fast...

[Edited on 12-19-2009 by wessongroup]

ELINVESTIG8R - 12-19-2009 at 03:06 PM

I have always had one philosophy with respect to carrying a firearm.

If you need it, and don't have it... You may never need it again!!

I had this picture hanging in my offices up until I retired. Now it's here with me at home as a constant reminder!

Not a great photo shot but you get the picture.

arrowhead - 12-19-2009 at 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DianaT
Is it legal to carry a loaded gun in a travel trailer in California

It is illegal. California PC Section 12031. You can carry an unloaded weapon in a compartment unavailable to the driver or passenger. The ammunition must be kept seperate. If you son parks his travel trailer off a public highway, like a campground, in California that becomes his residence and he can have a loaded concealable weapon while at the campgorund.

DianaT - 12-19-2009 at 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Diver
The answer is complicated;

If you carry the gun in the truck, it must be separated from the bullets, in a locked box or in the trunk. The weapon may not be accessible to any passenger while underway.

If the gun is in a towed/carried camper, the weapon would be inaccessible to passengers in the vehicle and therefore legal while you are hauling.
When you enter the camper, you are now within access of a loaded weapon which is not legal; unless your camper is set-up in a location that could, either temporarily or permanently be considered a residence or domicile.

Bottom line; it's best to unload and keep the ammo separate unless he is camped for the night(s) in a campground (not on the side of the road or in a rest area).

Does he need a place to camp in southeast Washington ? Give him our phone #.

.

Thanks Diver, but he is past there now. I should have given him your number and you could have shared bad truck stories.

His transmission crashed near Spokane and he had to spend several days there while they shipped a new one to Spokane, and of course, the weekend came when they did not work, and then the first one sent was the wrong one. Fortunately, he has good friends who live there and they rescued him. :-)

And I do look forward to Bajaguy posting------ :yes:

As always, I appreciate all the answers.

Diane

[Edited on 12-19-2009 by DianaT]

RonnieRockCod - 12-19-2009 at 06:57 PM

Diana,

Recently in Escondido, Calif (just north of San Diego) a group of citizens were publically carrying, in plain view, hostered pistols on their hip. It was lawful, but they had to be unloaded. They were permitted to carry loaded magazines on their person, or in the case of revolvers, loose ammo or those three round clips with ammo. (I would think)

Do not like to repeat but worth repeating. Absolutely no weapons or ammo in Mexico. Good luck, RRC.

DENNIS - 12-19-2009 at 07:11 PM

I had one instance, which I've mentioned here about a thousand times, when driving and two guys pulled up by me and shot the back window out of my car, missing my head by two feet.
At that time, I'd have felt a lot more secure with a gun in my hand. A large one.

shari - 12-19-2009 at 07:11 PM

should this thread be in off topic?

DianaT - 12-19-2009 at 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by lencho

Quote:

Originally posted by DianaT
Our son lives in Montana where it is legal to carry guns anywhere.

Hey, while we're on this subject, how many of you folks have ever actually needed to brandish a gun in a defense situation (other than a law enforcement or combat context)?

I'm for the right to bear arms, but personally cannot recall an incident where whipping out a handgun would have helped the situation. Maybe I've just been lucky...

--Larry

I agree with you---I can handle a small rifle, a small shot gun and I am not a bad shot with a pistol, but I never carry one. Montana has gotten to him. :-)

Quote:

Originally posted by shari
should this thread be in off topic?

The question was also asked about Baja

DianaT - 12-19-2009 at 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by lencho

Quote:

Originally posted by shari
should this thread be in off topic?

Nominally, perhaps-- although it's a minor deviation within an existing thread.

Realistically I wouldn't put any serious question in off-topic. I'm not interested in flame wars.

--Larry

Not sure flames would survive in that sewer with all the fecal matter flying. :biggrin:

And your minor deviation is an interesting question.

Barry A. - 12-19-2009 at 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by lencho

Quote:

Originally posted by DianaT
Our son lives in Montana where it is legal to carry guns anywhere.

Most cops have never had to shoot anybody, either, but they remain prepared and equiped to do so. For me the peace of mind totally justifies being armed. But, never in Mexico-------and, it has always made me nervous down there since we almost always are camped by ourselves in remote places. (but I always had SOME type of weapon handy, even there).

Barry (a retired cop with both Fed. and State weapons permits)

(edited to correct spelling)

[Edited on 12-20-2009 by Barry A.]

arizona

desertcpl - 12-19-2009 at 07:45 PM

arizona laws are that you can carry a loaded firearm with you loaded, as long as it is not hidden, in a car , trailer, or in a holster even going into stores or public places,, some places like bars will post a sign reading . NO FIRE ARMs ALLOWED

[Edited on 12-20-2009 by desertcpl]

[Edited on 12-20-2009 by desertcpl]

wessongroup - 12-19-2009 at 07:49 PM

I like the direction, these Nomads are traveling at the moment...

"Need", may be a primary factor in an enforcement officer’s evaluation of situation on site..

I found that by staying away from "guns", unless required, was probably going to be the best way for me.. Each man and/or woman has to make their own very difficult decision on how they will respond to situations which may be life threatening

I'm NOT for gun control.. But, everyone should understand the law and regulations fully when dealing with guns.

Believe that the original question has been answered, don't carry a loaded gun in your car with you.. If you were "living" in a trailer, your ability to posses a load weapon would also be view as in compliance with State Law in Washington. I believe that California, Nevada, Oregon have much the same Law and/or view on the issue.

If there is a question in anyone’s mind about the legal requirements associated with carrying a firearm they should be addressed, irregardless of a threads location.

Would offer that perhaps, rather than move the thread, the best source to determine the legality and enforcement posture of the California Highway Patrol is to just ask them.

Incorrect or misunderstood imparted information here on this board may have very serious consequences for someone you are trying to protect.

[Edited on 12-20-2009 by wessongroup]

[Edited on 12-20-2009 by wessongroup]

Barry A. - 12-19-2009 at 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by desertcpl
arizona laws are that you can carry a loaded firearm with you loaded, as long as it is not hidden, in a car , trailer, or in a holster even going into stores or public places,, some places like bars will post a sign reading . NO FIRE ARMs ALLOWED

[Edited on 12-20-2009 by desertcpl]

[Edited on 12-20-2009 by desertcpl]

------you can't "hide it" in a "holster"?????? now that stikes me as odd.

Barry

wessongroup - 12-19-2009 at 07:54 PM

under jacket shoulder holsters do a pretty good job....

as long as your not trying to hide a 357, but then "Dirty Harry" wore a 44 mag... seems to me..

[Edited on 12-20-2009 by wessongroup]

wessongroup - 12-19-2009 at 08:02 PM

what are " flame wars"???

desertcpl - 12-19-2009 at 08:05 PM

no I didnt say hide it in a holster,, you can have it in a holster,, as long as it is in plain site

ELINVESTIG8R - 12-19-2009 at 08:05 PM

My philosophy goes with me here and Mexico.

DianaT - 12-19-2009 at 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by lencho

Quote:

Originally posted by DianaT
And your minor deviation is an interesting question.

I think it is, and also relevant. There's occasional talk about folks wanting firearms here in Baja for self defense. But the cure is almost as scary as the ailment: I tremble to think what is in store for a foreigner who shoots someone here, whatever the circumstances...

--Larry

I wonder how many would carry a gun in Baja if they could----not taking about the hunters, but ones who would carry for self defense.

And oh my, I imagine if a foreigner shot someone they better have access to the border and run fast. And I am afraid it would be like what another foreigner in Bahia Asuncion told us. It you run over someone, they had better be dead so they cannot talk---rather cold, no really COLD. Not things I hope to experience in Baja.

Interesting, so the ban against foreigners bringing guns into Mexico is probably a good thing---may keep them out of more trouble.

[Edited on 12-20-2009 by DianaT]

Maybe...Maybe not

Dave - 12-19-2009 at 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by lencho
I tremble to think what is in store for a foreigner who shoots someone here, whatever the circumstances...

Possibly down south...but up here it would depend on the circumstances and the competency and integrity of investigators. To be safe, I wouldn't recommend any foreigner posses a weapon whose ownership could be traced back to them.

Sorry

Dave - 12-19-2009 at 08:34 PM

I thought you meant 'here' as in the whole of Baja, or possibly even Mexico. I was making a distinction between Baja and Baja Sur.

Paula - 12-19-2009 at 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DianaT Montana has gotten to him. :-)

Wow! I lived 35 years in Montana, and though in many ways it "got to me" i.e. amazing mountains, friendly people, fantastic skies, clean fresh air and water-- it never made me feel like I needed to carry a gun.

Paula - 12-19-2009 at 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by lencho
I tremble to think what is in store for a foreigner who shoots someone here, whatever the circumstances...

--Larry

Gee, I tremble to think of the consequences for some poor dumb drunk who comes looking for a beer when some paranoid freak lets him have it with his gun!

DianaT - 12-19-2009 at 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by lencho

Quote:

Originally posted by DianaT
And oh my, I imagine if a foreigner shot someone they better have access to the border and run fast. And I am afraid it would be like what another foreigner in Bahia Asuncion told us. It you run over someone, they had better be dead so they cannot talk---rather cold, no really COLD.

For repercussions, I think running over someone would be less dangerous than shooting someone.

Someone once explained to me a (Mexican) logic about self defense. If you take someone out, it's more trouble for you if you're better armed than the crook. i.e if you shoot someone coming at you with a knife, you're in more trouble than if you knife someone coming at you with a gun. Suppose that makes sense, but it makes carrying a gun a bit problematic, unless it's only used to protect yourself from other firearms.

I like your idea of heading for the border-- for a tourist in that situation, that's probably the best bet. For a landowner, a bit of a harder call...

--Larry

Interesting about the self-defense---another reason for the no gun law---may keep us out of that situation.

Yes, as a land owner, heading for the border is more problematic, but I think perhaps it would be better to sell the property long distance, even if cheap. And maybe unless someone is in Baja full time, it makes good sense to only have contents that one can walk away from. It would not be easy, but the alternative would not be worse.

Sure hope it never happens to any of us----don't want to run for the border.

DianaT - 12-19-2009 at 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Paula

Quote:

Originally posted by DianaT Montana has gotten to him. :-)

Paula, he lives in Montana for all the reasons you mention and it is a beautiful place. He is a catch and release fly fisherman, and never has been a hunter. Even in college in Colorado, he loved to find the big Elk before hunting season, and never tell where they were.

My comment was directed toward the fact that gun restrictions are very different there than in California where he was reared. And he now thinks the gun restrictions in California make no sense.

I very much apologize if you thought I was flaming Montana---it is one of my favorite places, except as he always says, the best Montana winter is spent in Baja.

[Edited on 12-20-2009 by DianaT]

DUMB FLAME WARRIOR!

ELINVESTIG8R - 12-19-2009 at 09:24 PM

Paula - 12-19-2009 at 09:24 PM

We do have our share of crazies, and get a little defensive...

And your son has the right idea about Montana winters!