BajaNomad - Cessna stolen from Asuncion...it's a sad day.

Cessna stolen from Asuncion...it's a sad day.

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shari - 12-20-2009 at 08:08 PM

I am so sorry to report that a Cessna 210 was stolen in the wee hours this morning. We were surprised to arrive at the strip and find the plane gone and so sorry for our amigos. They dealt with it very well understanding there was nothing they could have done differently. I'm real gad we didnt hire somebody to guard the plane or things may have been even sadder.

The culprits came well equiped to steal the plane and flew south extremely low over the coast under the radar before dawn. I guess the only way to fly into these parts safely is to keep the plane in Guerrero Negro where the military guard the strip. It's been a very long, sad day.

mulegemichael - 12-20-2009 at 08:12 PM

so sorry to hear this, shari...hopefully, someone will catch those dirt bags...but the odds aren't good, as we know

shari - 12-20-2009 at 08:20 PM

they figure it's the same group who stole the hospital plane which they found in Chihuaha...dang.

Stickers - 12-20-2009 at 08:33 PM

This is really getting hopeless - :mad:

Light aircraft are what opened up Baja for early travelers (before the road was in) and it"s a real shame it has come this this :no:

Dave - 12-20-2009 at 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by shari
flew south extremely low over the coast under the radar before dawn.

Shari, are you speaking about the coastal radar operated by the co-op and used to protect its fishing grounds?

This would suggest local collusion.

noproblemo2 - 12-20-2009 at 09:28 PM

Maybe these small planes need to have some sort of device rigged to blow if the pilot/owner himself is not the one starting it. Would get rid of a few bad guys... :biggrin:

Hook - 12-20-2009 at 09:48 PM

How long was the plane actually on the ground in Asuncion? How long had they been there before it was stolen?

please more detail

steekers - 12-20-2009 at 11:30 PM

Hello Shari:

Can you please post any pics of the plane and any other details as discovered that morning. Whats the N number?

What AOE did they come from (Ensenada, San Felipe, etc.)?

Thank you.

Dave - 12-20-2009 at 11:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by whistler
Local Collusion? How would the coperativas radar determine if the plane was stolen in the first place?

If they avoided the radar that would mean prior knowledge of its existence, no?

Iflyfish - 12-21-2009 at 12:17 AM

Grrrrrr!!!!!

A sad day indeed. I hope that the owners are doing ok. There has to be some way of preventing this!!!!????? Some way to keep the plane from being started with out the owner's involvement. Grrrr.

Iflyfishwithmyjawclenchedattimeslikethese

Russ - 12-21-2009 at 06:46 AM

For those as ignorant as I am I googled the plane:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cessna_210
My first thought is that the bad guys have access to pilots flight plan info. Very sad! I would also think that the local police would not want to confront these guys.

300px-Cessna.210.centurion.d-ebws.arp.jpg - 14kB

300px-Cessna.210.centurion.d-ebws.arp.jpg - 14kB

wessongroup - 12-21-2009 at 06:55 AM

take one wheel off... as i would guess this guys know how to take care of most anti-theft devices.. no different than a car.. unless they are carrying a spare wheel for a cessna 210

i have had my car stolen, it was a shock.. was looking at my parking ticket at the lax parking lot at 11:30 pm after getting in.. it took me a few minutes to really understand that.. no, you aren't lost, you did park your car here... and it's no longer here.. lucky it was a company car.. never found.. was a new ford explorer in 1990.

k-rico - 12-21-2009 at 07:06 AM

How long was the plane there? The reason I'm asking is I'm wondering if there are pilots sitting around with nothing to do looking for planes to steal.

Where do these thieving pilots come from?

Local crop dusters?

How did they know the plane was there?

Local participation?

Look for a local who seems to have struck it rich.

[Edited on 12-21-2009 by k-rico]

wessongroup - 12-21-2009 at 07:18 AM

ahhhhhh, i'm looking for a plane.. light plane that could land at "strips".. a plane where the owner will just leave it setting there with no security and will most likely not be thinking about someone stealing it... now who has the money to fly that kind of plan to mexico to go fishing.... and i'm not a pro.. doing this for a living.. we are targets for those who need what we have, take it from there... just sprinkle some imagination ..

k-rico - 12-21-2009 at 07:26 AM

Well it's a good bet the plane is going to be used by narcos and they paid the thief, but how did they know the plane was there? A phone call from a local?

abreojos - 12-21-2009 at 07:27 AM

For someone to be in a remote place, like Asuncion with very little air traffic, at the right time to steal the drug runners plane of choice (Cessna 210), there had to be someone tipping them off it be there or was there. If you want to catch a rat set a rat trap....

Loretana - 12-21-2009 at 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by k-rico
How long was the plane there? The reason I'm asking is I'm wondering if there are pilots sitting around with nothing to do looking for planes to steal.

Where do these thieving pilots come from?

Local crop dusters?

How did they know the plane was there?

Local participation?

Look for a local who seems to have struck it rich.
Edited on 12-21-2009 by k-rico]

Lets get serious here. The guys who stole that Cessna were after a STOL (short takeoff and landing) aircraft that can be used on clandestine airstrips for drug smuggling. The 210 was probably pressurized (a "P" model) and is highly desired
for long range smuggling operations as they can fly at a higher altitude, longer, safer and faster.

Someone there tipped off the thieves as soon as that Cessna hit the ground.

This is not some local, but an organized criminal group who knows what they are looking for and have the means and motive to execute these thefts. As sad day, indeed.

wessongroup - 12-21-2009 at 07:29 AM

all they would have to do is read what is posted right here to get: 40 ft motor homes, and the rest... we all give away a lot of info (intel as they call it today) about who we are, where we stay, when we are going to be there and (where that is) and much more.. again, not a pro, but would say we are easy pickings for the folks that work for a living

BajaGringo - 12-21-2009 at 07:32 AM

Wow,really sorry to hear about that Shari.

k-rico - 12-21-2009 at 07:33 AM

I know it's probably narcos.

"Someone there tipped off the thieves as soon as that Cessna hit the ground."

That's what I'm getting at. There aren't many people in Asuncion. That "someone" shouldn't be hard to find.

How long was it on the ground? It would probably take hours to bring the closest pilot in, there just aren't that many people who know how to steal an airplane.

k-rico - 12-21-2009 at 07:38 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Loretana

Quote:

I know it's probably narcos. I bet they would really like a VSTOL.

You say:

"Someone there tipped off the thieves as soon as that Cessna hit the ground."

and then,

"This is not some local"

huh???

The person who tipped off the thieves is the rottenest of them all, and the dumbest, dealing with narcos is high risk and he probably got very little return for the risk, or maybe not.

[Edited on 12-21-2009 by k-rico]

Skeet/Loreto - 12-21-2009 at 07:44 AM

Every Aircraft that now enters Mesico that legally gets a Flight Plan is subject to many different people at the border knowning where he is headed and what strip he is going to be.

Just remember that the Cartel boys have been doing this for a long Time.

k-rico - 12-21-2009 at 07:51 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
Every Aircraft that now enters Mesico that legally gets a Flight Plan is subject to many different people at the border knowning where he is headed and what strip he is going to be.

Just remember that the Cartel boys have been doing this for a long Time.

Oh, OK. Those people that know about the flight plan, who are they? Who is the flight plan filed with?

Pompano - 12-21-2009 at 07:54 AM

Skeet is right. Every town and village has it's share of druggers. Flight plans are filed with port of entry airfields and destination airfields..at least they were for us. May have changed these last years that I have not been flying.

Small personal aircraft have been stolen here since they first began to arrive. First one for us was around 1973. The two thieves were killed soon after take-off.

The plane was a twin Aztec. Like the Centurion, very popular with the drug runners.

A hidden switch valve on the fuel line works wonders.
The criminals never made bail...or 'bailed' out.

[Edited on 12-21-2009 by Pompano]

k-rico - 12-21-2009 at 07:56 AM

I know Skeet is right, so who is the flight plan filed with? He is implying they tipped off the cartel.

gnukid - 12-21-2009 at 08:01 AM

You read the words of Leyzaola the TJ security chief yesterday who said himself, "behind every crime is a corrupt police man."

http://mx.news.yahoo.com/s/ap/091220/latinoamerica/rep_gen_n...

Santiago - 12-21-2009 at 08:03 AM

How difficult and $$ would it be to at least have tracking devices (Lo Jack like) in private aircraft? Do the aircraft insurance companies even insure these in MX any more? Do you have to get an MX policy like for your car or does a Canadian/American policy cover MX also? Is the frequency of stolen aircraft very small but it's just that we hear about every one?

k-rico - 12-21-2009 at 08:43 AM

Not only to you need the lo-jack gizmo in the plane, you need the whole ground system or a loitering AWACS to pick up the signal.

wessongroup - 12-21-2009 at 08:45 AM

just take a wheel off and problem solved

ncampion - 12-21-2009 at 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by k-rico
Not only to you need the lo-jack gizmo in the plane, you need the whole ground system or a loitering AWACS to pick up the signal.

How about a hidden SPOT Messenger device on the plane. That's what I do with my boat. Just check the computer and have the police go get the plane and arrest the criminals.

.

tripledigitken - 12-21-2009 at 09:12 AM

Will an experienced Baja pilot tell us why you can't/won't disable your plane to prevent this from happening?

Wheel off, fuel cut off, easy off flap/elevator, etc. etc. etc.

k-rico - 12-21-2009 at 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ncampion

Quote:

Originally posted by k-rico
Not only to you need the lo-jack gizmo in the plane, you need the whole ground system or a loitering AWACS to pick up the signal.

How about a hidden SPOT Messenger device on the plane. That's what I do with my boat. Just check the computer and have the police go get the plane and arrest the criminals.

.

Pretty cool, I didn't know about that.

All sorts of apps.

http://www.findmespot.com/en/

[Edited on 12-21-2009 by k-rico]

LancairDriver - 12-21-2009 at 09:23 AM

It isn't clear from the information given here what, if any, precautions were taken to prevent theft. However, flying a 210, a good hauler with decent speed and one of the most popular theft targets would seem to warrant some effort at protection. All of the many thefts have been well reported, so the flags were up. I would be surprised to see the insurance company's continue to insure aircraft theft in Mexico.
There are safe ways that are technically illegal under FAA regs.to render an aircraft useless, and some of the pilots have their own methods obviously not publicised.
I feel the owners pain.

wessongroup - 12-21-2009 at 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by tripledigitken
Will an experienced Baja pilot tell us why you can't/won't disable your plane to prevent this from happening?

Wheel off, fuel cut off, easy off flap/elevator, etc. etc. etc.

thank you

vandenberg - 12-21-2009 at 09:59 AM

Mentioned wheel removal a long time ago. Seems by far the simplest way to disable a plane. Other ones, like hidden fuel shut off switches, could be forgotten and end up being a danger to the legal pilot/owner/passengers.

capt. mike - 12-21-2009 at 10:05 AM

bummer.
lots of good ways to disable on the ground.
my friends with 210s have them but won't go anymore cause the damage a thief does didling with the disabling features.
one buddy bought an AZtec they won't steal that. his sweet 210 stays home.

wessongroup - 12-21-2009 at 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by vandenberg
Mentioned wheel removal a long time ago. Seems by far the simplest way to disable a plane. Other ones, like hidden fuel shut off switches, could be forgotten and end up being a danger to the legal pilot/owner/passengers.

yeah, does seem the simpliest solution.. the rest will all ways be there... who, why, how, when and where ..... just take the "plane" out of the situation...

Skeet/Loreto - 12-21-2009 at 10:49 AM

There are several different devices being used and improved for use on Small Aircraft just for Mexico.

Some of these devices will not be openly discussed and never will be as the Duggies will then be advised.

tripledigitken - 12-21-2009 at 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
There are several different devices being used and improved for use on Small Aircraft just for Mexico.

Some of these devices will not be openly discussed and never will be as the Duggies will then be advised.

Yet, they still keep getting stolen?

Mike makes a good point that the thieves mess up the planes tinkering with the devices, so it's not worth the effort.

Don't think I'd fly a 210 down to Baja if I had one!

Posada-BushPilot - 12-21-2009 at 11:18 AM

I used to fly my c206 to Mulege. For security I used a device called a pit bull which is a big cast iron wheel lock they use on cars. I just locked them onto both main wheels which was a pain in the butt. A thief would have to have a gas powered saw to cut the pit bulls off. Also used a throttle lock which is a 6in thick steel pipe that locks onto the throttle. When the military left I didn't feel secure taking off knowing that I could get hijacked by use of force. I ended up selling the aircraft and sure enough the next November a pilot and his family were hijacked by armed theives from the Serenadad strip.
The military has since returned and there have been no aircraft stolen since.
I had full coverage insurance that covered me in Mexico and I hope the poor guy or gal who lost the 210 is covered. Believe it or not its cheaper to cover an airplane (personal non business use) than it is a car. Try getting full coverage on a $175k car for under 1200 a year.

LancairDriver - 12-21-2009 at 12:25 PM

I just spoke with a recently retired DEA supervisor friend who told me they have long known the Mexican "pilot pool" stealing the aircraft have been made an offer neither they or their family can refuse. A bullet or a bribe. Apparently there is an adequate number in the pool to keep the business going.

airmech - 12-21-2009 at 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by wessongroup
just take a wheel off and problem solved

Not as easy as you might think. Yeah, easy when your at a hanger when you have jacks and tools around. But down on a dirt strip. First you have to carry a pretty heavy jack with you every where you go. Those little cheap jacks that come with your car really wont work. Then, after you take off the tire then what? You going to rest the axle on a couple of 2x4's so when the wind blows it knocks it off and now your wing and gear are damaged??

Comparing airplanes to cars is like apples and oranges. There are different rules and regulations. And if you screw something up when you get down there good luck getting an airplane part, tube or tire, even bolts and nuts will be hard getting down there.

As far as disabling devices like fuel cut offs and switches, it fine if you can install them yourself but a regular A&P mechanic wont because you have to get it approved by the FAA. And good luck with that. No A&P mechanic is going to risk their license to install something not approved by the FAA on your airplane just so you can go to Mexico.

wessongroup - 12-21-2009 at 12:58 PM

yeah, i know it wouldn't be easy.. and of course you would be down in the baja... and was not comparing cars to planes... only the sinking feeling you have when someone steals something from you that you use for transportation... and you are left standing there with your **** in your hand..

if nuts and bolts are still hard to get down south, then take a nut or bolt off or let the air out of the tires ... the concept is the same.. disable the vehicles ability to move ... be it a water craft, aircraft, or land craft.. or space craft

arrowhead - 12-21-2009 at 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by wessongroup
if nuts and bolts are still hard to get down south, then take a nut or bolt off or let the air out of the tires ... the concept is the same.. disable the vehicles ability to move ... be it a water craft, aircraft, or land craft.. or space craft

A total waste of time. The airplane spotters would just tell the crooks what is missing (e.g. tire) and they will bring one with them. Besides, airmech had it right, carrying the tools to remove a tire is a lot of weight and work. Installing a hidden fuel cutoff is not legal, unless FAA approved. Have an accident, and expect your insurance carrier to refuse payment. All the policies have a clause that the aircraft has to be airworthy (e.g no illegal modifications).

The real trap is that if they want the plane, they will just wait until you are ready to take-off and put a gun to your head. This has been done before in Mexico. Do you know why there are more and more carjackings? The new anti-theft devices prevent cars from being hotwired. You need the key with the RFID chip in it to start. So the thieves just pick a car with the driver and key.

capt. mike - 12-21-2009 at 01:33 PM

you guys are right. Airmech and Arrowhead.
this will simply be a case of common sense says if you fly a 200 series Cessna you need to leave it at home away from Mexico.
too bad.
a lot of people have already decided to quit recreational flights south.
there's plenty of great destinations in the states of USA.

the 1st time a low wing hi-perf retractible gets ripped - i am done too.

wessongroup - 12-21-2009 at 01:35 PM

is it your position that it is impossible to disable an aircraft while on the ground in baja?

the scenario of gun to the head, you should also add in: your family is being held hostage, along with many other potential forms, ahhhh may I say, "pressure" which could be applied to get what is wanted ...

if one has the the potential of running into folks who are very rich, very powerful and do not care about you and/or anyone one bit... then you should think about it for a very, very long time... before going into their "court" as the lines for this game just changed......

capt. mike - 12-21-2009 at 01:44 PM

"is it your position that it is impossible to disable an aircraft while on the ground in baja? "

no - it can be done, it simply is problematic and not worth the hassle.

no one needs to fly to mexico bad enough that he has to go to that level.
better to just not go than to screw up your plane or have others do it for you.

Dave - 12-21-2009 at 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by k-rico

How long was it on the ground? It would probably take hours to bring the closest pilot in, there just aren't that many people who know how to steal an airplane.

The pilot flew out. What's to say he wasn't flown in.

Definite collusion involved. But it wouldn't have to include someone from Asuncion. It could be where the flight cleared, no?

wessongroup - 12-21-2009 at 02:10 PM

good, then it can be done... it's just a lot of work and effort to protect an item of value.. as it should be..

second point, one can evaluate the situation, and based on, the latest facts, experience and training of the individual and/or individuals, could reach an informed decision on whether to go or not..

believe this is about "travel" in the baja in general.. one had better think before they take a ride down... and understand they are not in the states and there is in fact a real war going on....

seems to me there was a poster just a while back that "truly" did not understand where this individual was going.. many here were trying to point out that what you do in the states is in the states and you should know that it is not that way down here... the poster was "kissmewillyou"

i'm sure that this individual did not have any problems at all, but it did focus attention on the difference in how one travels in the united states as apposed to baja and/or mexico

[Edited on 12-21-2009 by wessongroup]

capt. mike - 12-21-2009 at 02:10 PM

Sheri - not much yet over on BBP

do you know if the owner was a BBP member?
how are they getting out?
BBP often helps.

k-rico - 12-21-2009 at 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by gnukid
You read the words of Leyzaola the TJ security chief yesterday who said himself, "behind every crime is a corrupt police man."

Any ex-TJ cops pounding the beat between Asuncion and Abreojos? There's the local spotter guy! Call the cops, quick.

Apologies for making fun of a bad situation.

I'm just real curious about how the thieves, certainly from the outside, knew the plane was there.

How long was it on the ground?

k-rico - 12-21-2009 at 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave

Quote:

Originally posted by k-rico

How long was it on the ground? It would probably take hours to bring the closest pilot in, there just aren't that many people who know how to steal an airplane.

The pilot flew out. What's to say he wasn't flown in.

Definite collusion involved. But it wouldn't have to include someone from Asuncion. It could be where the flight cleared, no?

Hmmm, certainly could be. Lots of possibilities.

But Asuncion is such a remote place. I think someone driving through enroute to someplace else noticing the plane can be ruled out.

It could be that one of the travelers innocently mentioned the itinerary to the wrong person before leaving.

fishbuck - 12-21-2009 at 04:29 PM

This sure is happening quite often. Sorry to hear about it.

UnoMas - 12-21-2009 at 05:07 PM

Doesn't seem to be any info coming out on this. It would have been nice to have a discription (color and N numbers). Could have flown over many Nomads today and would never known it was the missing plane. May be this should be standard procedure when reporting an incident if that information is known.
I am sure Shari has had her hands full today and that is why we haven't heard back from her, I know how I would feel if it were me. Hope they catch the rotten B@**%#!$ :fire:

fishbuck - 12-21-2009 at 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by airmech

Quote:

Originally posted by wessongroup
just take a wheel off and problem solved

A pair of plyers, a cresent wrench, a small hammer. No jack nesscessary for the nose gear wheel.
Knock the retaining bolt out, remove the spacers and the axel. Done.
Leave sitting on the fork. Won't hurt it.

[Edited on 12-22-2009 by fishbuck]

Skeet/Loreto - 12-21-2009 at 05:27 PM

Wont"t work Fishbuck if you are a Taildragger Pilot.I can wind that sucker up and take off and land with out too much damage to the Nose Strut. Course you have to have some experience with a Taildragger!!
Skeet

fishbuck - 12-21-2009 at 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
Wont"t work Fishbuck if you are a Taildragger Pilot.I can wind that sucker up and take off and land with out too much damage to the Nose Strut. Course you have to have some experience with a Taildragger!!
Skeet

Bullcrap!

LancairDriver - 12-21-2009 at 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by fishbuck

Quote:

Bullcrap!

Agreed- The prop wouldn't have enough clearance with the nose wheel gone and it would thrash itself to destruction in the dirt as soon as you started the engine. Even if there were clearance I doubt if you would have enough power to plow a furrow with the fork dragging in the dirt.

Sherlock!

Marla Daily - 12-21-2009 at 06:14 PM

What do the stolen planes all have in common?
Where did these planes enter Baja?
What time did they enter and who was on duty?
Where did they file their flight plan?
Where did they fuel?

Somewhere there is a common denominator. And it isn't the strips from which ! they have been stolen: Serenidad; L.A. Bay; Gonzaga; Asencion. There is a well-paid tipster
somewhere along the chain of common information.

Someone knowledgeable needs to do a spreadsheet to find the pattern!
Dicho Mexicana: El delito acusa! (The crime itself accuses.)

chernefitter - 12-21-2009 at 06:20 PM

I am not a pilot but if you watch enough tv or movies it doesn't take a genious to figure out you can fly low to the ground or ocean and not be detected on a radar screen. Also looks to be an "inside" job on the theft...they were just biding their time, especially around the holidays waiting for the right model to show up. Bummer. I'm sure they had insurance, but still......

fishbuck - 12-21-2009 at 06:24 PM

The insurance companies must have this somewhat figured out by now.

Ken Bondy - 12-21-2009 at 06:34 PM

Quote:

Skeet I am intrigued by this. At first glance it sounds impossible. I have been around general aviation for a long time and have never heard anyone suggest that this was possible. Can you explain how you would avoid damage to the prop on the landing roll? Would you just hold it off as long as you could and then just let the strut drop and grind in? Seems like the prop would not have enough clearance and would inevitably hit the ground while it was still rotating. Have you ever done this?

fishbuck - 12-21-2009 at 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ken Bondy

Quote:

Ofcourse he's never done that! But I'd like to watch him try it.
With someone else's airplane of course! :lol:

Skeet/Loreto - 12-21-2009 at 06:45 PM

Ken: Yes It can be done> DEpending on the type Aircraft but if you bring it in Slow Nose up, Flaps down you can shut your engine off and May, I asay May not ding your Prop.. I know that we do not have as many Tail Draggers as we use to but you will be amazed at what you can dio,
'Now to have some fun , next ime you go up, get altitude and do it in the Air, watch how the drop occurs when you shut down your Engine in a nose High, not quite a Stall.

Same with a 172 or such, do a tail first landing right above stall and see how far you go. You can come to a stop before the Nose wheel touches. Try it, just keep that stick in your belly.

fishbuck - 12-21-2009 at 06:53 PM

So... Ken... when are you going to try this?
My guess is that the elevator will run out of lift at about 40-50 knots. Still fast enough to cart wheel the aircraft on to it's back. But probably collapse the nose gear first and bend the prop and crankshaft.
And if you trying to steal the plane what good would that be.
Plus Skeet, you haven't told us how you will take off with no nose gear tire.
Please tell. :yes:

k-rico - 12-22-2009 at 03:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by fishbuck
Plus Skeet, you haven't told us how you will take off with no nose gear tire.
Please tell. :yes:

He's a tail dragger. Perhaps one or more of his "nekkid girls" straddling the rudder to shift the center of gravity aft. :tumble:

wessongroup - 12-22-2009 at 06:17 AM

Would offer again....

How did they know the "who, what, where, when, how... well this morning have learned where about 20 people are in the Southern area of Baja..

Some degree of "cover" should be used if you have a lot of stuff that can be stolen.. anywhere and if your in Mexico in the winter flying down to fish for what ever... you are a "target", get real...

That much money in one area is going to draw in folks just like "chum".. if it takes 12 hours to drive from San Diego to Bahia Asuncion and you shorten the trip by let's say in half or less.. what's the big woof in getting down to where the money is, none .. and we ALL know that only rich people are at these locations fishing.. or staying at a second home just because of the weather..

One would also know from reading this board that someone that is down in Baja, has left a vacant home in the states too... and if they have enough to have two of things.. well...

With the technology available to one with unlimited funding .... you are looking at intel gathering devices which you see in the movies... or at least in the military, as that is where they get it...

Would add, after what happened in Columbia with the cartel's, you think they did learn a thing or two.. one of the reasons the Mexican army and the States are having a fit dealing with this crop...

Comes down to knowing if your setting down in a "hot LZ" and using the necessary precautions what ever those may be.. as it's your stuff and butt you are looking out for.. plus any of the others your are dragging along for the ride...

[Edited on 12-22-2009 by wessongroup]

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ELINVESTIG8R - 12-22-2009 at 06:56 AM

wessongroup - 12-22-2009 at 07:03 AM

now why didn't I think of that.. just ask them!! :lol:

Skeet/Loreto - 12-22-2009 at 07:44 AM

Fishbuck. Do you mind telling us how much Taildragger time you have!!

Now Gentlemen and Scholars:The only way to do a take off is to have some one holed the tail section down.. But keep in mind that if you were in light Sand it does not take much to get the weight off of the nose Wheel.
Shortfield takeoff Full Flap.

Wessongroup:You are looking for a detailed answer. There is none and from what I can see I do not think there were any locals involved.
They knew this pilots destination and knew how to get there or knowing the area they could be withion a few miles and just waiting for the right plane at the right time.
A very easy thing to do is plant a Beacon locater in the aircraft at the stop in Brown Field or Mexicali or Tj/

Skeet

Long Live Cowboys

wessongroup - 12-22-2009 at 08:25 AM

no skeet, I don't want a detailed answer.. the horse is already out of the corral.. catching the person.. there will always be another... and other

just trying to address "how" one comes on down, and suggesting that folks fully understand what they are doing when coming into Mexico with items of real value which others really want ... I'm surprised that some smart lawyer in Mexico has not sued the owners, for contribution to the Cartel's....

It is after all a different Country with some really bad motor scooters, that will do you in a heat beat, given half a chance.. as we see every day...

I don't like the way one has to approach it, but it is, the way it is.... so one has to adapt

p.s. have seen folks flying old "steraman's" that could do just about anything.. plus the craft could take on heck of a beating.. always liked them myself..

[Edited on 12-22-2009 by wessongroup]

Ken Bondy - 12-22-2009 at 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by fishbuck
So... Ken... when are you going to try this?

Well...I would love to get out there and try a few touch-and-goes in a C-172 with a missing nosewheel...but wait, I checked my log and I'm not current. Plus I have zero taildragger time and I had enough trouble landing high-wing tricycle gear aircraft with all three tires attached. Plus my wife told me that I was an idiot for considering this...she said something like "...you marooon! You somehow lived through 2,000 hours in 20 years of flying little airplanes and now you want to do this???..." So all things considered, as much fun as it would be, I am going to have to pass.

[Edited on 12-22-2009 by Ken Bondy]

capt. mike - 12-22-2009 at 08:50 AM

"The insurance companies must have this somewhat figured out by now. "

they have...they up our rates!!! the actuarials keep adjusting... :fire:

full story now on BBP.

the perp is likely a cartel plant within the DGAC system and gets flight plans.

wessongroup - 12-22-2009 at 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ken Bondy

Quote:

Originally posted by fishbuck
So... Ken... when are you going to try this?

shari - 12-22-2009 at 09:07 AM

morning all...I've been out of town.
Ok...the pilot filed a flight plan to Asuncion where he checked in in Ensenada.(Many pilots dont put Asuncion as their destination...maybe a good idea??) sure could be someone on the inside there...probably more likely than a local here but it's not out of the question someone here has ties and could make a call. Weird thing is, the plane was here for 3 nights before it got jacked...lots of time to mobilize a team and they came prepared with blowtorches, av gas, tools etc. Nobody knew he was coming, he didnt buzz town, I didnt post it etc.

airmech voiced what the pilot said as he had his wrenches out with the idea of disabling the plane...he was really worried he would screw something up and not be able to fly out, FAA regs, etc and he felt that he would rather have someone steal it when he isnt in it or taxiing down the runway or something. He was just glad we didnt post a guard and that nobody got hurt. ONe of our guests gave them a ride up to San Diego...they probably just arrived late last night so I'm sure it will appear on BBP soon enough..he is a member. I didnt really want to post it either outs of respect for his privacy but some people here said I should post it because if I dont, it might look like I was trying to cover up the theft or something to that effect....so this is the scoop amigos. I am soooo bummed.

the really crappy thing is that it creates all these strange ideas and suspicions...could it have been someone local tipping the banditos off??? who?? and just plain makes one start to wonder about lots of things...sheesh.

Looks like the only way to fly close to here is to leave the plane in Guerrero Negro where the military guard the strip.

[Edited on 12-24-2009 by shari]

capt. mike - 12-22-2009 at 09:22 AM

Sheri - check U2Us. it's there.

as far as departing from dirt sans a wheel, nose wheel at that.... in a tri gear plane.....skeeter, HAVE YOU LOST YOUR MIND!!!!!!!!! :lol:

regs say pilot is prohibited from operating craft in an unsafe manner.
regs say aircraft must have all required minimum equipment on board and be in an air worthy condition.

what's wrong with this picture?? :light:

1. never get it off the ground unless you made a sand ski.
2. never land it without a dig and flip.
what would be the point?

let the insurance handle it.
don't take 200 series into mexico, period.

Iflyfish - 12-22-2009 at 09:47 AM

Shari,

A crime like this has more than one victim. You are all victims in this and I am very sad that this has happened to you and your community. I don't mean to minimize your experience however it is very important to recognize that there is indeed a war going on in Mexico and no one is exempt from it's effects. There are lessons here for all of us Nomads about security and some of this discussion has reminded me of some of those lessons and I have learned some more.

The reality is that there is crime and danger in traveling to Mexico and that includes Baja. We all take responsibility for our own safety and security when we are traveling and must maintain our vigilance at the same time balance that need with our need to have FUN. I can't think of a place where I have had more fun than Asuncion.

I am pleased to hear that others have pitched in to help these people make it back home. This is good news and again points to the fact that as well as harm done there is also good done.

On that note I wish all Nomads a Happy Holiday Season, Feliz Navidad e Prospero Ano Nuevo!! e pardon mi mal Espanol

Iflyfishingratitudefornomads

airmech - 12-22-2009 at 10:09 AM

"From the victims mouth"

I copied this from the BBP site so the Nomads would have the real story.

"I flew my 210 down to Bahia Asuncion last Wednesday. I checked on the plane Saturday afternoon. I arrived at the airport on Sunday morning for departure and the plane was gone. I had a solid prop lock on the plane and I pulled two spark plug wires. Gas jugs were found near the beginning of the runway. We think the people who stole the plane came with gas jugs, added another 20 gallons of fuel. Cut the prop lock with a torch because the hardened steal simply could not be cut with a hack saw and too thick for a bolt cutter. They must have diagnosed the pulled spark plug wires and took the plane. My bet is that someone who lives in town tipped off the bad guys and it took 3 days to get a pilot over there to take the plane. I avoided buzzing the town because I didnt want anyone to know I was there, but the whole town seemed to know within a day or two. The police new I was there because they went out and took picures of my plane Thursday morning. They could have tipped off the bad guys too. No way to know for sure. Bahia Asunsion otherwise is a great destination. Great people. Shari and Juan were awesome and probably the biggest losers in this. Fly to Guerrero Negro and Shari will pick you up there. Do not fly to this airport and leave your plane overnight, ever." KREW

L

Skeet/Loreto - 12-22-2009 at 01:00 PM

It would be interesting to see if any one used their Cutting Torch. I feel sure there would not be to many people in town that has One.

Really it woiuld take a real good Team of Special Forces type to go in and find the location where these stolen planes are being used ,And I would suggest Cualiacan, Los Mooichis area.

Determine the people using them, Kill them and leave a message that they should leave the Americans Airplanes alone.It has been going on for many years, its just that with the mass Communication we have now everybody hears about it.

Ken I agree that itt is time to stop the Fun Things!! I took a 172 with a 180 for a two hour Flight over Palo Duro Canyon and after about an Hour started having trouble with my hearing Aids.

No more for me.

Fishbuck and any other Pilots or Pilots to be. Get a Hold of all the photos and pictures and information about BOB Hoover, read and study what that man could do with an Airplane.

Ken I wonder if any of the new Instructors are teaching "Dead Stick Landings"" anymore. Every new Pilot should have a Couple before he gets his Certificate!!!

Now to anyone going to Asuncion. When you get there talk to Juan or Shari, Hire a local Nightwatchman, He will scare away a lot of people.
Get one with a real Bad Rep. and the Crooks will get the word.
Make sure he has a weapon but don"t tell anyone.

Skeet

Long Live Cowboys

wessongroup - 12-22-2009 at 01:25 PM

Skeet.. afraid your right.. these folks are well trained mercenaries.. not sure the locals are up to the task..even If you provide them an assault rifle or rifles .. may be willing, but not able..

These guys are "ex special forces" trained in the U.S. and know their job and are equipped !! .. it's a big one to take on these folks if your not ready for the war.... and I'm afraid most are not up to the challenge, I know I'm not.. I'm almost 70 and can just barely get around anymore.. sounds like your a tough old bird and I understand what you are saying

But, I'm keeping a low profile.. and hoping no one wants what this old man has, is realistically my only shot down here.. and if they do.. take it!! I'll do without, did before I had what ever they take.. thank you very much.. if it comes down to the real thing.. then I will have to go down the best way I can

I'm glad that no one was hurt, and hope that it only goes this far for Shari and Juan and the rest down that way... hang tight...

arrowhead - 12-22-2009 at 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by airmech
Fly to Guerrero Negro and Shari will pick you up there.

What would be the point of that? GN is a good 3-hour drive to Asuncion. When you add in the extra time to stop and clear customs and immigration, file flight plans, etc. might as well just drive all the way from the border.

capt. mike - 12-22-2009 at 02:21 PM

i think non desired AC types would be fine at Asuncion. the cartels are pretty clear on what they target.
that being said....the Navy Grumman ejection seat i just found on ebay will be going in my bird soon. now - if i can just re program the switch to remote trigger.....
insurance will cover the wreck....i don't care about the driver.... :mad:

Skeet/Loreto - 12-22-2009 at 03:32 PM

Wessongroup: Google up "Aircraft Stolen Mexico". There is a running accont of most of the Thefts.
Show two just recently that had Prop and Thottle Locks.

Wonder if a remote Switch to the Ignition Switch and Mag, would do any good??

Something will happen, These guys know enogh that they will bring along a Cutting Torch.

fishbuck - 12-22-2009 at 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by capt. mike
i think non desired AC types would be fine at Asuncion. the cartels are pretty clear on what they target.
that being said....the Navy Grumman ejection seat i just found on ebay will be going in my bird soon. now - if i can just re program the switch to remote trigger.....
insurance will cover the wreck....i don't care about the driver.... :mad:

Yeah Mike, the best thing to do is take a real piece of junk plane like a Camanche. No one likes those

.

Hey Skeet, you're right. I'll bet Bob Hoover could pull off your little tail dragger trick. Maybe Chuck Yeager also. :lol:

fishbuck - 12-22-2009 at 04:31 PM

"Fishbuck. Do you mind telling us how much Taildragger time you have!!" Skeeter

Well Skeet, I guess I have about 2 hours or so. My Dad took me flying in a J3 Cub once. That thing was fun!
And my Dad had a Stinson 4 seater. I flew it once. Hated it. But I guess I could have learned to fly it well enough if I needed to.
My dad was a company pilot for an outfit that had a DC-3. I flew that a few times. I was only about 7-8 years old. Does that count.
My best story is my dad's trip down to Las Cruces in 1959 in a B-18 TWIN BEECH. It was like his first pilot job. I was born shortly after.
Later on he moved on to Lears, Jet Commanders, Hawkers etc.
He told me he quit logging time at around 25,000 hours.
I wouldn't mind trying a nice taildragger.
If I could find one. :coolup:

DianaT - 12-22-2009 at 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by airmech
"From the victims mouth"

I copied this from the BBP site so the Nomads would have the real story.

"I flew my 210 down to Bahia Asuncion last Wednesday. I checked on the plane Saturday afternoon. I arrived at the airport on Sunday morning for departure and the plane was gone. I had a solid prop lock on the plane and I pulled two spark plug wires. Gas jugs were found near the beginning of the runway. We think the people who stole the plane came with gas jugs, added another 20 gallons of fuel. Cut the prop lock with a torch because the hardened steal simply could not be cut with a hack saw and too thick for a bolt cutter. They must have diagnosed the pulled spark plug wires and took the plane. My bet is that someone who lives in town tipped off the bad guys and it took 3 days to get a pilot over there to take the plane. I avoided buzzing the town because I didnt want anyone to know I was there, but the whole town seemed to know within a day or two. The police new I was there because they went out and took picures of my plane Thursday morning. They could have tipped off the bad guys too. No way to know for sure. Bahia Asunsion otherwise is a great destination. Great people. Shari and Juan were awesome and probably the biggest losers in this. Fly to Guerrero Negro and Shari will pick you up there. Do not fly to this airport and leave your plane overnight, ever." KREW

L

Thank you for posting this----so very sad for the owners and sad for the entire town. I guess no place is immune from this problem. :no:

Even though the airstrip cannot be seen from the town or from the roads, it is not surprising that everyone knew there was a plane in town.

Bajaboy - 12-22-2009 at 04:39 PM

Hey Bucky-

That Skeeter is smarter then them old seeintists up at UCSD/Scripps...sew em gessin thet he mite now what he's talkin bout. After all, he's seen a seegull or too fly on the cortez.....

ar u still comin' down?

Quote:

Originally posted by fishbuck
"Fishbuck. Do you mind telling us how much Taildragger time you have!!" Skeeter

Well Skeet, I guess I have about 2 hours or so. My Dad took me flying in a J3 Cub once. That thing was fun!
And my Dad had a Stinson 4 seater. I flew it once. Hated it. But I guess I could have learned to fly it well enough if I needed to.
My dad was a company pilot for an outfit that had a DC-3. I flew that a few times. I was only about 7-8 years old. Does that count.
My best story is my dad's trip down to Las Cruces in 1959 in a B-18 TWIN BEECH. It was like his first pilot job. I was born shortly after.
Later on he moved on to Lears, Jet Commanders, Hawkers etc.
He told me he quit logging time at around 25,000 hours.
I wouldn't mind trying a nice taildragger.
If I could find one. :coolup:

Skeet/Loreto - 12-22-2009 at 05:41 PM

Now Baja boy: I did not say I was smarter only that I had more experience on top and down below in the Sea of Cortez for 38 years.

You show me a Xcientist from Scripps that has spent any time or just a little time studying the Sea of CorteZ.

Fishbuck. You should really get some Tail dragger time. See if you can get some with an ole Air Knocker to take you up{Aeronca 7 AC} it not that a Pa 18 Supper Cub. You can actually make it walk on its Tail!!

Good Luck

Long Live Cowboys and Cowgirls

Bajaboy - 12-22-2009 at 10:00 PM

Hey Skeet-

Giving you a bad time. By the way, the Chargers had their way with the Cowboys...ouch!

Quote:

Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
Now Baja boy: I did not say I was smarter only that I had more experience on top and down below in the Sea of Cortez for 38 years.

You show me a Xcientist from Scripps that has spent any time or just a little time studying the Sea of CorteZ.

Fishbuck. You should really get some Tail dragger time. See if you can get some with an ole Air Knocker to take you up{Aeronca 7 AC} it not that a Pa 18 Supper Cub. You can actually make it walk on its Tail!!

Good Luck

Long Live Cowboys and Cowgirls

k-rico - 12-23-2009 at 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto

You show me a Xcientist from Scripps that has spent any time or just a little time studying the Sea of CorteZ.

You ole tail dragger, that was easy:

http://explorations.ucsd.edu/Features/2009/Birth_of_an_Ocean...

http://explorations.ucsd.edu/Features/2009/Birth_of_an_Ocean...

I like the cowgirls :yes:

[Edited on 12-23-2009 by k-rico]

Skeet/Loreto - 12-23-2009 at 08:47 AM

K=rico"

No you Don't! That is about the Geological not the SEA!! Not the Fish, Not the Birds.

Ask them smart Suckers about the Bird Life and what is its connection to the Fish. That one is easy.

Why to the Squid Beach themselves and Die on the Beaches??

Why to the Squid return on generally a 3 year basis.

Why did the Sierra come back to Mulege after they were netted out 25 years ago??

The Scientist do some study work but it is gennerally things to support their OWN Ideas.Many times they do not see but One particular.

Anyway K-Rico I have to admit that sometimes they do a good Job, just sometimes.!

Skeet
Long Live Cowboys and Cowgirls

ELINVESTIG8R - 12-23-2009 at 09:01 AM

k-rico - 12-23-2009 at 09:06 AM

skeeterdeeter

have you heard of google.com ??

http://scrippsnews.ucsd.edu/Releases/?releaseID=624

Long live the Cowgirls, you can keep the boyz.

[Edited on 12-23-2009 by k-rico]

David K - 12-23-2009 at 09:18 AM

You can't blame Skeet for being skeptical of (some) scientists and their reports... Look at the lies and altered/ destroyed data by those U.N. and other scientists about 'global warming', all to keep funds coming their way, from the hysteria over an obvious (to most) false claim. Governments who want more control and money from its citizens are using that lie, still... Other world leaders are a bit more honest and have rejected the trend of some.

DianaT - 12-23-2009 at 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by David K
You can't blame Skeet for being skeptical of (some) scientists and their reports... Look at the lies and altered/ destroyed data by those U.N. and other scientists about 'global warming', all to keep funds coming their way, from the hysteria over an obvious (to most) false claim. Governments who want more control and money from its citizens are using that lie, still... Other world leaders are a bit more honest and have rejected the trend of some.

Guess it is time for another thread to dive into this stupid over and over argument between those who do believe in science and those who believe in right-wing conspiracy theories.

This is about a stolen airplane, about the damage to a small town that has been out of the mainstream of these problems, it is about what can or cannot happen to help this situation, but no---------------away we go.

Now DK, tell us all about how you didn't start it, how it is your job to teach us all about everything and correct everyone else if they are wrong, or at least wrong in your opinion, how all nomads should love each other, how at least you love everyone and want to play nice and don't poke people with a stick every chance you get :barf:

how you have been in Baja and watched the ocean so you know the "TRUTH"--- go for it.

Or, why doesn't everyone get back to what this thread is about and try your hand in the off-topic sewer where it belongs.

The discussion about flying was interesting, even with the disagreement.

wessongroup - 12-23-2009 at 09:39 AM

Ditto's, but fun... hey skeets.. how the shrimp guys doing of the Texas coast

It's all a part of the contest between transient humankind and the eternal forces of the cosmos.

Skeet/Loreto - 12-23-2009 at 10:10 AM

Good Post Diana except when you mentioned the "Vast Right Wing!!

You Lefties are not to swift!

I will admit that we should get back to the original .

There must be something that Pilots can do to stop these Thefts!
Still think and Electronic device that only allows the Ingition system to work when the Pilot wants it to work will be developed.

We should not let "Fear" control what we do in Life.
I sure do not fear a bunch of Leftie Scientist drinking Booze, smoking DOPE, running around Nekid on the Sea of Cortez doing a Scientfic Study!!!

They are like the Rooster ==
I am so confused that I dont know which way to Point my Pecker!!!

Long Live Cowboys

k-rico - 12-23-2009 at 10:25 AM

Skeet, It still points?

Eventhough it's a big loss to the aircraft owner and a true bummer for the honest folks of Asuncion, there are interesting things about the event. Most are focused upon securing the aircraft, some, like me are wondering how the cartel guys knew the plane was there. I'd bet some resident of Asuncion, Abreojos, or GN is in cahoots with a cartel. Others say it might be some employee of the gov organizations cognizant of the flight plan.

I think bribing a local is probably a lot easier, and safer, than bribing a gov employee.

Maybe thinking clouded by hope though.

I'm also wondering which cartel, seeing that I'm interested in the details of this war surrounding me in Tijuana. Either the Sinaloa cartel or the AFO I would guess.

Skeet/Loreto - 12-23-2009 at 11:06 AM

rico

I lean toward the information concerning the location of where the plane may be for a couple of Days.

If it was a local, then he has to make a contact, then the group has to arrive with the Torch.

I know that years past the planes stolen were then used to take a load across{under radar at that time]. Several times the planes where recoved back in the states, no damage.

Also there is a group of Pilots that operate out of the Hills East of Cuilacuan.
They took several aircraft and repainted, renumbered, re registered in Mexico. These are used to transport some of the High Mucky t Muks around the Country.
There is still a number of planes in the "Boneyard" at Hermisillo.

shari - 12-23-2009 at 11:11 AM

when the hospital plane got stolen...it was jacked right after it landed so the banditos knew about this in advance and were there waiting in the wings...(pun intended) It was kinda strange that this one had been here 3 days already....hmmm...sure stinks though when ya start wondering about locals here....suspecting people you may know....ewwww.

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