I just heard this from some friends of mine, theres a small movement that is starting to grow that wants Baja to become independent from Mexico, i
have to say the idea sounds good to me.
My cars new bumper sticker says:
"Viva Baja Libre"
Looking for a buyer?
The Gull - 7-5-2004 at 08:02 PM
I have always heard that Japanese government planners would like to buy Baja for a retirement community for their "Silver Generation".
e-Bay could offer it.JESSE - 7-6-2004 at 06:21 PM
Not for sale, it would be for us Baja Californians alone.
Everythings for sale
jrbaja - 7-6-2004 at 07:11 PM
unfriggenfortunately!!! And Jesse, it's a lot of your countrymen selling it. Everywhere.
Especially in the south. But, it's mostly non americans buying it.
So, in your opinion, if Baja Norte and Baja Sur became independent of Mexico and it belonged to the "Baja Californians"as you say, who would
classify as Baja Californians ?
And, what would be done with the ones that didn't classify?
And, it seems as if you would be for that idea which I certainly don't blame you. What would you, if you classified, like to see done with the
peninsula?JESSE - 7-6-2004 at 07:23 PM
I would accept as Baja Californians anybody that is already established here, living here for at least 5 or more years, Holds a legal and law abiding
job, and is a productive member of society ( that includes the current gringo community).
I would stop all major current development in order to have a major study about the best ways of developing the peninsula without losing its original
feel, as well as making sure the development benefits all sectors of society, not just the rich.
Create an economic zone similar to Hong Kong in the north, save the south for tourism and agriculture.
Limit the amount of people migrating here from Mexico or other places.
Completely reestructure the law and create a new modern constitution.
You have my vote !
jrbaja - 7-6-2004 at 07:40 PM
FrankO - 7-6-2004 at 08:12 PM
Well, I think thats bullchiite. What if you have been there 5 yrs. and have a nice income stream w/o working that you inject into the local community
by living there?
Just remember, studies cost money and that only comes from taxes. Think about creating the tax roll. Where's that going to come from? And what about
the ejidos, they're straight out of DF. It's great to think about government in simple terms but doesn't really have anything to do w/reality. Money
talks.
And JR, who is buying it? I've run into a lot of Norteamericanos buying down south. Of course that is a definition excluding boundaries. Just curious
Oh, for Utopia.
Canadians mostly
jrbaja - 7-6-2004 at 08:26 PM
then rich Europeans and Mexicans.
Yep, there's gringos too but arriving just late. And now, they are paying dearly!
And as far as money talking, any clubs down here in Rosarito could support an entire government from the u.s.dollars being spent in them every
weekend.
They would just have to be bussed in. And according to all the alcohol related incidents involving americans down here, I think that might be a
pretty good idea anyway!FrankO - 7-6-2004 at 10:55 PM
Aren't Canadiens Norteamericanos?
There's plenty of money, just getting into the right hands and spent judiciously would be the biggest feat. Kind of like the Virgen appearing in other
than paint in some desert location.
Would that be alcohol related incidents like the "accident in Loreto"?
5 YEARS?
Capt. George - 7-7-2004 at 03:14 AM
Jesse,
I would'nt have taken you for an
"Igotminer", rather surprised....Who's going to support the economy, you?
Really sick of the igotminers, seen them in Cape Cod, seen them in the Keys and now seeing them in Baja, fortunately, none of them near me, YET, just
great..
All entitled to their own opinion....
adios, going fishing...Capt. George
Baja and more
Juan - 7-7-2004 at 09:10 AM
Hi Jesse, I like a lot of your ideas about developing the Baja peninsula. Of course some of them echo the US governments plans to limit imigration.
I suggest we expand the program to include Alaska, British Columbia, Washington, Oregon, California Alta and Baja California. Geography and weather
to suit the needs of all and a decent economic base to start with. Don't you think a lot of people would like to go north for the summer and south
for the winter? Without the border people of lower income can also come and go within their means. I think the demographics would change
dramatically within a few years.JESSE - 7-7-2004 at 01:24 PM
People, heres an interesting numbers for you, out of every tax dollar that Baja sends to Mexico City, we only get back 30 cents, i say Baja has plenty
to gain and not much to lose.
We do have the ability to be self sufficient, if we manage with just 30% of what we produce, i say we can do better with a 200% increase.
SOUNDS GOOD BUT??
Capt. George - 7-7-2004 at 01:30 PM
Imagine an independent Baja.....and the Big Eyed, Big Monied Norte Americanos that would perhaps convince the powers that be to sell to the good old
U.S. of A. and all its bleeding heart liberals, conservation groups and other Robber Barons of freedom.....No Thank You....
Chased from one country, would like to relax and enjoy some real peace and "freedom"........
A disgruntled fisherman, hunter and general outdoorsman....MEJESSE - 7-7-2004 at 01:34 PM
A free Baja can't make things worse than what Mexico city is doing now.
???????????
Capt. George - 7-7-2004 at 01:42 PM
Bet my bottom dollar the above could...
Norte para mi......no mas, no mas, no mas!!!
Outdoorsmen (oops, outdoorpersons, I might be politically incorrect) need not apply.
Frightened of the lurking environmental vultures.....
Seen them, they're REALLY SCARY!!!!
GeorgeJESSE - 7-7-2004 at 01:43 PM
I am not following you Cpt George.
Which is exactly
jrbaja - 7-7-2004 at 01:58 PM
what is already happening George. Just in case you hadn't noticed. The homes are popping up like flies. And, there were plenty of those already.
And they ain't casas Mexicanas but big pink obtrusive things that certainly look like they belong in so. cal. rather than Baja.
Are these the liberals you are referring to ? You know, the ones that now own private beaches and hotels where the locals aren't allowed. Freedom ?
In Baja?
If that's what you call what is going on here, YIKES! It is turning into the same freedom the u.s. has to offer.
The freedom that Baja is on the verge of losing will not be saved by gringo attitudes of liberal, conservative, or bullcaca. Especially ridiculous
gringo politics of any sort.
It might be saved by locals and caring individuals who educate rather than whine and blame others.
These are the people that are doing something about the preservation of Baja. The teachers.
And in spite of Mex. politics, naysayers, capitalists, and u.s. save the tree foundations, they will probably succeed.
Freedom Removed
Capt. George - 7-7-2004 at 07:50 PM
I have lost untold freedoms in the U.S.A. to varying interests that were based on environmental concerns,,,,caca
Jesse, you surely know what I am talking about......40 miles of beach to surfcast and supplement my income....we took good care of it......now a
measley eight miles when we're lucky, summertime down to 1&1/2 miles??????????
Covenant attached to a deed of conveyance to the U.S. of A. assuring traditional rights of hunting, fishing and access....gone! My ? to the Super of
the Nat'l Seashore......what about the covenant?
Answer: Times change......
Legal documents don't, is that not right?
Her answer........Sue Us, I'm busy...
It's why my home is B.C.S., Mexico....
So far, so good.......
adios & buenos noches, George
The Original Republic had a Flag (1853-4)
David K - 7-7-2004 at 08:05 PM
Two stars as the Republic founded by William Walker soon added the state of Sonora to the state of Lower California
Here is the state flag, from the days of the old republic...
David K - 7-7-2004 at 08:07 PM
Gentlemen! Gentlemen!
Skeet/Loreto - 7-7-2004 at 10:02 PM
What is happening to my beloved Mar De Cortez and the Baja Sur land is the same that has happened in Flordia and other places in the world such as
California.
I lived with much more Freedom in Loreto from 1968 to 1999 than in California, then the "boys" with connections came in and are trying to make it
over. Sad, Sad, Sad!
The only way to beat it is to move to another deserted Beach?Place and hope that you can have a few years of Peace and Quiet and Freedom.
changing Baja is happening and there is nothing you can do!More Govt. programs or changes will only bring all of the same things that we have in
California,-A Mess.
Do as JR or Capt. George, leave those Goodies and rough it for a while and let the Rest of the world Go by!!!
Skeet/Loreto
"In God I Trust"
Noooooooo!
jrbaja - 7-7-2004 at 10:05 PM
Please don't.
Jesse
Baja Bernie - 7-19-2004 at 04:01 PM
You have apparently learned a lesson most people never learn. Taxes always go to the point of power and seldom flow back to those taxed. The further
a State is from that power the less return they get on their taxes. Alta California has the same problem with our Federal government. They would
much rather spend the money in our original 13 states, where the power is, than blow the money on projects in Alta California. A case in point they
have now spent about 30 million dollars and years undergrounding freeways in Boston so they could relieve traffic congestion and make the city
prettier. LA and SD get zilch. And just as with Mexico it matters not which party is in power.
Alta California has been playing with your dream since the 1950's but the pol's just will not allow their power to be deminished by giving up the
taxes involved.
Juan! Good Advice!
Skeet/Loreto - 7-19-2004 at 06:24 PM
Ha anyone on this Board taken my suggestion and read " Mexifornia? Just published by Dr. Hansen.
It is very informative.
Skeet/Loreto
"In God I Trust'elgatoloco - 7-19-2004 at 06:45 PM
Quote:
..... A case in point they have now spent about 30 million dollars and years undergrounding freeways in Boston so they could relieve traffic
congestion and make the city prettier. LA and SD get zilch. ........
Thanks, I got lazy and didn't want to look it up. Your figure matches the last one that I saw. Kennedy and Kerry sure took home the bacon on that
one.
To make it even Stevens,a Republican, takes the cake in Alasks. Unfortunately, I doubt that it wil lever cease until the corpse is bled dry. And it
will be. Then it will only be blue and white.
It's grim !
jrbaja - 7-19-2004 at 08:57 PM
There's just too many people and fewer places to go. There are developers scoping out every inch of the peninsula as we speak.
Hopefully, many of the locals will resist their offers.
They are aware of other possibilities for an income. But, it's pretty scary.JESSE - 7-20-2004 at 01:16 PM
To me it seems that since California will almost surely give its electoral votes to the Democrats, then the republican goverment frankly doesnt really
give a damn about making Californians lives better.
Then again, i dont know what the situation was when Clinton was in office.
Jesse
Baja Bernie - 7-20-2004 at 03:13 PM
I believe that you have this just a little wrong. The Democrats do have a lock on California and so they do not have to bother in investing anything
to maintain their control.
The Republicans control the Federal Government and they have no reason to spend money in a State that will not vote for them. All of this is bad for
the citizens.
Now if Alta Califorians were smart they would vote, as the Mexicans have done for the past 70 plus years (vote for the party in power), for the guys
who could shower them with money--the Republicans.
I know that the Mexican people flirted with PAN for a nano-second and did not get the pay off they had come to expect from the PRI.
Really a similar situation in Baja with PRI still in control of the Federal government --with no reason to reward Baja for voting PAN. PAN thinks
they have a lock on Baja and thus they see no reason to spend big bucks in an area they already control.
Let's all form our own country and forget both Washington and Mexico City.
We could call it Azlan! What do you think.
Never happen because both Californias provide far too much money and power to the Federal Governments.
I'm positive that both Governments would pull a Lincoln and bring all of their military
power to bear to defeat each of our States. Hell, they would even co-operate with each other to make this happen. elgatoloco - 7-20-2004 at 03:27 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Baja Bernie
Let's all form our own country and forget both Washington and Mexico City.
We could call it Azlan! What do you think.
Bernie, can we call it Barbaraland? I am stuck on what to get the wifey for our 5th anniversary! Baja Bernie - 7-21-2004 at 08:28 AM
Why not! She owns a bunch of it already.
But, you know, I much prefer sticking with an historical Spanish name. 'Azlan' has such a haughty ring to it. But, then so does Barbraland. I am
hopelessly conflicted.elgatoloco - 7-21-2004 at 09:02 AM
Hey! Her maiden name is now her middle name-Lagos- Lagosland?
Nah, your right, Azlan it will be!
JESSE - 7-21-2004 at 08:55 PM
Lets just be ready for WW3, we can all run to southern Baja and claim our land.Germanicus - 7-23-2004 at 08:08 PM
Jesse,
can you PLEASE wait with the declaration of independence and restricting the migration until I'm there and found my place?????????????????????????????
I wanna live at the Bja for the rest of my life.
After 5 years of temporary living I will applay for Citizenship.
But what Citizenship is it after the Baja is independent?
Californians?
Baja Californians?
Mexican-Californians?
Mexican-Baja-Californians?
Well, I don't care.
Just wait, will you?
Germanicus
Californios? Bajacans (like Oaxacans) Baxacans??
David K - 7-23-2004 at 08:37 PM
Baja was California first, Baja California later. When Jesse liberates the California peninsula, all residents will become Californios. However,
because 'Baja' is such a cool word and has better recognition for the peninsula than the U.S. state's name, Baja will have to be included in the name.
'Bajacalifornia' as one word maybe? The people are Bajacalifornios! Too long? Maybe 'Bajaca' (for Baja Ca), accent on the second sylibel (like
Oaxaca). People or things from the peninsula are 'Bajacans' (Ba HA cans). Baxaca gives it an Aztec flavor!Okay, this is getting too deep, even for
me! LOL!!!
[Edited on 7-24-2004 by David K]
Alemexicanos ?????
jrbaja - 7-23-2004 at 08:42 PM
Germanicus, it seems to me I read somewhere that you have never been to Baja.
How is it that someone that is probably aware of the rest of the world, decided on the Baja peninsula for a place to start a business and retire,
site unseen if that is truly the case.
JR
Baja Bernie - 7-23-2004 at 09:00 PM
Why do you assume that he is aquainted with the rest of the world? Is it because he is a German who does not like America where he has come to suck
on the tit of the American people as he critises them?
Well Bernie,
jrbaja - 7-23-2004 at 09:05 PM
as much as I personally like sucking on ta taas, that had nothing to do with it.
On the other hand, I would think that someone who is planning on setting up a resort, would have looked into all possibilities. Even if they were a
gringo! Well, not necessarily!!! Public ed. and all.
Calmate Se?or.
So what can I say!!!
Baja Bernie - 7-23-2004 at 11:12 PM
My friend JR advises this old guy to stay calm and for what or why! I do not understand this talk of one starting a resort. Who is this fellow. The
man who is so clean and pure that he can tell an old man to calm down AND that after he has caused the commotion with his caustic posts.
Most confused!
Very true Bernie
jrbaja - 7-23-2004 at 11:29 PM
I have posted some " caustic " posts when it comes to american patriotism. But, after reading all of my posts in this thread, I didn't really find
anything "caustic", anti american, or any reason for you to be pee'd off.
In my opinion, anyone in their right mind would look into all aspects of future plans prior to making decisions.
If you have a problem with those N-zi bastads, I ain't won of em. And, I seriously doubt Germanicus is either.
But, what I do wonder is what I asked him in the last, or second to last, or whenever post it was, why here?
In Baja that is. JESSE - 7-24-2004 at 02:24 PM
Jesse the "liberator" sounds good to me.
Jr
Skeet/Loreto - 7-31-2004 at 03:12 PM
The Locals just busted another "Moving Meth Lab" copied after the N-zi design used in World War 2 to keep their Troops fighting for Days with no
Sleep.
Skeet/Loreto
"In God I Trust"
No Grover!
Skeet/Loreto - 8-1-2004 at 01:03 PM
The stuff is bought and used by the 16 to 20 year old children who walk the Malls with head Phones listening to the Latest Flith being Played, while
Jobs go unfilled, all because some Parents did not have the Respect to teach their children that Drugs are Bad for your Health.
Instead they taught them "If it Feels Good, Do it".
Skeet/Loreto
"In God I Trust" whodat54321 - 8-1-2004 at 05:00 PM
agreed skeet
here in El Cajon, we have experienced a recent boom in the head shop business. In the downtown area where I live, there are more 'smoke shops' than
liquor stores.
El Cajon's gone to pot. That's another reason I gotta move.
A Sad Moment in my Life!
Skeet/Loreto - 8-3-2004 at 12:40 PM
I posted about my Trip to Loreto last week, but held back because of the Nature of the Thing.
I must report that in many of the new Stores in Loreto,DOPE Pipes are being sold. Different types and sizes, Silver, gold, Shell etc.
It is so sad to see such a Beautiful Place becoming another Drug Location.
What is Wrong with those Scum?
Skeet/Loreto
"In God I Trust"
Be warned there is "Crystal" being used by Americanos and Mexicanos.
It is so sad to see such a beautifwhodat54321 - 8-3-2004 at 12:48 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by grover
El Cajon gone? Between that Angel's bar, and the (former)meth capital of the world, Spring Valley, right next door...
Sprinkle Valley and El Cabong. Twin cites of dope.
