BajaNomad - 2 friends in 2 years now have Trichinosis

2 friends in 2 years now have Trichinosis

jgreenlaw1 - 2-7-2010 at 10:23 PM

2 of my friends in 2 years now have Trichinosis. I thought I would let people know so they can take precautions.
Bolth friends were hispanic that visited baja sometimes.
I assume they got the Trichinosis from baja as the comercial meat in the U.S has much stricter food safty guidlines.
I know you can get it from eating infected pork that was undercooked. Im assuming, since the Trichinella Spiralis travel in the blood to all part of the body. That if there is unsafe food handling of the infected pork in the kitchen or butcher shop, that the meat grinder or cutting board is also a source of contamination. I would then think that anything then put into the grinder following the infected pork is now infected. The same would go for the cutting board. Pork such as pork chops done on the barbeque would also be a no no in baja I would think. I wouldnt be so concerned except in bolth cases with my friends, the Trichinella Spiralis went to the brain. Even when cured of the disease with heavy doses of medicens the holes and the carcases remain in the brain resulting in alot of seriouse issues. I know the symtoms were mild in one of my friends until the convoltions months later. See more: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trichinosis#Prevention

irenemm - 2-8-2010 at 12:41 AM

Commerical pork is tested here just as it is the States. However if you eat on tacos stand and roadside stand you run the risk of getting pigs that where not raised for the commerical market. some guy killed his pig and hey turned it into carnitas. Most restaurant buy from a commerical butcher. At least we do.
But it can be because someone did not make sure it tested out at internal tempertaure of 175 f.
most of the pork we use comes the the United States as does most the beef and chicken we use.
Roadside stand do not have the same rules that a restaurant has. the stands are not inspected by the health department and i am sure the workers do not have health certifcates
I hope your friends will soon feel better and watch where they eat.

JESSE - 2-8-2010 at 03:16 AM

Considering the total yearly cases in Mexico are around 20, your friends where incredibly unlucky.

DENNIS - 2-8-2010 at 07:25 AM

Pink pork will getcha. It should be cooked in an Autoclave.

Donjulio - 2-8-2010 at 08:15 AM

Don't forget his post says "I assume they got it in Baja". Basing that on the fact they "They visited Mexico sometimes".

Thats like catching the clap after having sex with 12 different girls and cause one of them was a professional you automatically assume it came from her.

And we wonder why we get bad press.

[Edited on 2-8-2010 by Donjulio]

mexico doesnt deserve any bad press?

jgreenlaw1 - 2-8-2010 at 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Donjulio
Don't forget his post says "I assume they got it in Baja". Basing that on the fact they "They visited Mexico sometimes".

Thats like catching the clap after having sex with 12 different girls and cause one of them was a professional you automatically assume it came from her.

And we wonder why we get bad press.

[Edited on 2-8-2010 by Donjulio]

I know and mexico doesnt deserve any bad press. Sorry I even brought this up. The 20 case reported in mexico did not include the 2 cases involving my friends, as they reported it in the U.S. I just hope this disease is not on the rise as it is a terrible disease to get.

[Edited on 2-8-2010 by jgreenlaw1]

wessongroup - 2-8-2010 at 09:14 AM

On a side note.. for all those who love raw fish... one can get parasitic diseases also..

In the past, most was somewhat more restricted to certain geographic regions of the world, however with the spread of the Global economy.. so also the spread of certain other things too

I have always cooked my pork to death.. was brought up "cook the hell out of it".. my wife says she likes hers "moist and juicy" well... sorry... make it like shoe leather, I'll put something on it to make it taste better.. did that too growing up.. always had a bottle of catsup on the table to make it taste half way good.. then switched to hot sauces in the Service.. you had to have it, it was a necessity.. eating in chow halls..

But, I don't eat raw fish, I don't like fish even cooked, let alone raw!! Can take smoked fish.. well smoked, not one of these run it through kind of smoke jobs.. if it's dry, I drink more beer.. have with crackers and some time a piece of onion just to really drive anyone away big time... it's not a pretty sight, but good

you can eat what you want.. if you like it God Bless.. what a pound of Beef up to in Japan now days.. $56 a pound.. and where does all the raw fish eaters come from... looks like they like fish, but all said... would appear that a good steak.. has some legs in Japan.. still

And that is my choice, a good steak, not raw.. cooked, over open flame from a wood fire (mesquite if possible) medium rare.. if it's got worms I will eat them too... it's making me hungry just writing about it..

DENNIS - 2-8-2010 at 09:23 AM

Pork products are mishandled everywhere. Just ask the Muslims. Roadside stands in most cases lack the power to heat pork to a safe temperature and when it's cooked, they lack the power to protect it with refrigeration.
The most safe decision would be to not eat pork in questionable circumstances.
All that said, why does this have to turn into an issue of Mexico bashing when it was nothing more than bad pork bashing?
Everybody, including Mexico, deserves all the bad press they earn, whether it's bad people or bad pork.
Just don't eat pork unless you cook it yourself.

Bajahowodd - 2-8-2010 at 12:16 PM

Many good points here that add up to the fact that this thread has nothing to do about Mexico. And let's remember, all you hunters, that wild game is much more likely to be contaminated than pork.

That said, one difference between shopping at Ralphs in Orange County and Soriana in Ensenada, is when I walk up to the meat counter, the butcher is wearing a surgical mask in Soriana.

wessongroup - 2-8-2010 at 12:46 PM

Not too sure about the food thing.. when in the Walmart in Rosarito.. saw the "butter lettuce" was in a "Headman" box.. do you know what that means?

Well it means it was grown in Ventura County by Dave Walsh... a big grower in Venture County.. also.. we, the State of California, export a lot of stuff, also most of the big growers started up operations all over the world to supply stuff out of season here.. but, not in another part of the world... there is much food and fiber moved all over the world daily... would not be too sure what you're getting is from just around the corner.. but in many cases another Country..

As a side note, this whole concept was started by Freda Caplan at City Market in downtown Los Angeles in the very early 60's and introduced the Kiwi fruit, an unknown commodity at the time.. She also brought in many other very creative ideas in providing a very vast selection of "out of season" produce and marginal crops which had never had success due to poor marketing ....

http://www.bigthinkingwomen.com/utility/showArticle/?objectI...

She was a pleasure to meet and a pleasure to work with.. she, was a go getter, big time in a good way

On the mask, not sure if that is for swine flue or a requirement of the Mexican Health Department.. will check it out.. as it is a good idea.. for sure

Sharksbaja - 2-8-2010 at 12:52 PM

If you see a greenish-blue irridescent sheen on your porkchops hand them to the dog. Just because pork is cooked to 175f doesn't exclude the fact that the pork may have previously spoiled leaving toxins in the tissue that can lead to illness.

irenemm - 2-8-2010 at 01:20 PM

the mask is required by the health department for all food handlers.

wessongroup - 2-8-2010 at 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by irenemm
the mask is required by the health department for all food handlers.

Thanks

DENNIS - 2-8-2010 at 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by irenemm
the mask is required by the health department for all food handlers.

That is, evidently, an easily ignored rule. When Com Mex opened in Ensenada, the workers in the bakery all wore masks for about a month. Then the mask slipped from the face to the neck and they wore them like that for a while. Now, they're gone.

arrowhead - 2-8-2010 at 01:57 PM

Just eat Kosher food.
:lol:

The Masks or the Workers?

Bajahowodd - 2-8-2010 at 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by irenemm
the mask is required by the health department for all food handlers.

Kosher Pork?

Bajahowodd - 2-8-2010 at 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by arrowhead
Just eat Kosher food.
:lol:

Don't forget Halal.

I'm NOT cutting back on these!!!!!!!!!!!

tripledigitken - 2-8-2010 at 02:01 PM

Bajahowodd - 2-8-2010 at 02:04 PM

Geez, Ken. Now I can't skip lunch. :lol:

Sharksbaja - 2-8-2010 at 02:06 PM

Those are perverse! Waaaaay too much foreskin. :lol:

The Gull - 2-8-2010 at 02:48 PM

Quote:

Ahhhh, the Baja Bashing never stops on this site.

Here is a big discovery for some people. There are people who raise pigs in the US and slaughter them for backyard BBQ and "Pit Roasting" without going through the US government. The parties I have been to have always been hosted by Hispanic or Samoan people.

Did these two people also drive American cars? You know that you can get Trichinosis from American cars?

Dennis, can you get Trichinosis from sex workers?

wessongroup - 2-8-2010 at 02:58 PM

:lol:

Dennis, can you get Trichinosis from sex workers? :lol:

Only if they are not properly prepared

Sharksbaja - 2-8-2010 at 03:04 PM

No no Gull it's called "Mexineurosis"

Everyone knows that Mexican anythang is inferior than NOB. Plus everythang is infected as well. From crickets to people, they just can't be trusted to be puro. :light:

The Gull - 2-8-2010 at 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sharksbaja
No no Gull it's called "Mexineurosis"

Everyone knows that Mexican anythang is inferior than NOB. Plus everythang is infected as well. From crickets to people, they just can't be trusted to be puro. :light:

You can get Trichinosis after catching swine flu in Mexico.

What is the proper preparation of a sex worker?

Two Friends of mine in two years - a fact

The Gull - 2-8-2010 at 03:24 PM

Two friends of mine in two years have been diagnosed with Pancreatic cancer.

Both have been to Baja. One of them is dead.

Warning to all people - getting pancreatic cancer is a horrible death. It hasn't been established that their visits to Baja were not somehow connected to their disease.

BajaDanD - 2-8-2010 at 03:59 PM

A Few questions

#1 Did your 2 friends know each other.?
#2 Did they get this at the same time.?
#3 What kind of precautions should we take that we are not already? taking.
# 4 Dont eat meat or dont go to Mexico?

wessongroup - 2-8-2010 at 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BajaDanD
A Few questions

#1 Did your 2 friends know each other.?
#2 Did they get this at the same time.?
#3 What kind of precautions should we take that we are not already? taking.
# 4 Dont eat meat or dont go to Mexico?

Was just reading headlines.. Pancreatic Cancer Linked to Sodas?

http://www.webmd.com/cancer/pancreatic-cancer/news/20100208/...

Timo1 - 2-8-2010 at 04:42 PM

As long as beer is safe....I think I'll make it then

Bajahowodd - 2-8-2010 at 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by The Gull
Two friends of mine in two years have been diagnosed with Pancreatic cancer.

Both have been to Baja. One of them is dead.

Warning to all people - getting pancreatic cancer is a horrible death. It hasn't been established that their visits to Baja were not somehow connected to their disease.

Awfully sad, but at the same time very apt.

The Gull - 2-8-2010 at 07:31 PM

Quote:

First, let's stop the speculation that pancreatic cancer has anything to do with visiting Mexico (unless you drink sugary sodas, according to wesson's research).

Second, the idea that there is a cause and effect to anything in the world of diseases is just being naive or ignorant, your choice. The genetic and environmental variables are countless (except in the case where Dennis contracts diseases from sex workers).

Third, the one who died was 70 years old and it was a genetic bias in that person's family. Four generations got the disease and even one of their children died 10 years before from Pancreatic cancer. There is a form of it that is genetic-based.

Fourth, the other friend is 54 and is a role model of healthy eating and lifestyle, always has been. Diagnosed three weeks ago, given 6 months to live.

Fifth, both people have been dealt a bad had - live each day as you wish.

wessongroup - 2-8-2010 at 07:41 PM

Very good Gull, didn't know you had that in ya... Good man!!

DENNIS - 2-8-2010 at 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by The Gull
the idea that there is a cause and effect to anything in the world of diseases is just being naive or ignorant, your choice.

Gull...Mi Amigo....I'll dump this post if you'll dump yours. Nobody will ever know that you said that. Hurry.

[Edited on 2-9-2010 by DENNIS]

BajaDanD - 2-8-2010 at 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by The Gull

Quote:

my questions were to the original poster about Tric.

The odds of gitting it are Rare. "pun"
The odds of anyone knowing 2 people from two different cases/pork dinners getting it is even more rare.
To come on here and suggest we now need to be more cautious is silly.
I had a pork roast for dinner.

Just cause its a little green does not mean its bad.

DENNIS - 2-8-2010 at 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BajaDanD
Just cause its a little green does not mean its bad.

Green uncooked, or cooked, pork might be OK? Really?

BajaDanD - 2-8-2010 at 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by BajaDanD
Just cause its a little green does not mean its bad.

Green uncooked, or cooked, pork might be OK? Really?

If its cooked and still green you used way too much wasabi.

Mexicorn - 2-8-2010 at 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by wessongroup
:lol:

Dennis, can you get Trichinosis from sex workers? :lol:

Only if they are not properly prepared

Dennis pay them no mind they are Player haters!

wessongroup - 2-8-2010 at 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BajaDanD

Quote:

Originally posted by The Gull

Quote:

I've eaten green meat.. it was server in the chow hall, our sargent told us, "it is good for you, eat it!!!" :lol:

the next morning durning PT... it did not appear to most of use that the sargent was correct :lol:

Hey, BajaDanD.. your should get to gather with Ken.. did you see that pile of bacon wrapped hots he had "STACKED" hell I thought he was a vegatain :lol:

I was kinda of wondering what happen to the topic.. was coming along nicely

As How can talking about eating and/or drinking food stuffs which may lead to possible diseases and/or other physical disabilities be perceived as anti Baja or off topic.. your doing it here.. or your doing it there knowledge know no boundries.. I hope

It all sounds like good common sense to me, finding out about what is happening with your food from on the spot reports from individuals living here and seems if something was really bad for a Health and Environmental standpoint these guys are the best to be talking to in my book..

BajaDanD - 2-8-2010 at 09:08 PM

I guess I have my doubts about the whole thing. To link it to Baja because they were Hispanic and they go to Baja sometimes and then suggest that we should now take more precautions then we already do sounds suspicious. What next??
Just another dont go to Baja its dangerous post or maybe its PETA Spam " pun intended"
Hey is it unethical to call it spam :lol:

BajaDanD - 2-8-2010 at 09:23 PM

Lets see, so now, when I go to Baja, along with all the other stuff I need to worry about, I now have to watch out for pork on the road at night. Thats it Im done with Baja

How about getting away from the computer for a while Grouchy people

jgreenlaw1 - 2-9-2010 at 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BajaDanD
Lets see, so now, when I go to Baja, along with all the other stuff I need to worry about, I now have to watch out for pork on the road at night. Thats it Im done with Baja

Its not realy what you say its how you say it. Some of you guys realy took this post in the wrong way. For some people to think I am mexico bashing sound racest, but its not me.
I was just trying to give some people some friendly advice.
To much drinking and seclution in your moterhome has got you grumpy.

My sick sense of humor

Dave - 2-9-2010 at 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by arrowhead
Just eat Kosher food.
:lol:

An Orthodox Jew being diagnosed with Trichinosis.

So, Moishe...who can you tell?

The Gull - 2-9-2010 at 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BajaDanD
my questions were to the original poster about Tric.

The odds of gitting it are Rare. "pun"
The odds of anyone knowing 2 people from two different cases/pork dinners getting it is even more rare.
To come on here and suggest we now need to be more cautious is silly.
I had a pork roast for dinner.

Just cause its a little green does not mean its bad.

Dan, sorta knew you were addressing the first post but it provided a pulpit to explain the just because I read the Wall Street Journal like my friend in the next city and both of us eventually die of a heart attack, there is no proof of cause and effect. In fact, it is not even coincidence.

Jgreenlaw has in his post the inference that there is linkage to being Hispanic (from Hispanola like Christopher Columbus?) going to Baja and having trig. Notice that Jgreenlaw speaks about his friends in the past tense? Does that mean they are dead or they are no longer his friends? That they WERE Hispanic, MAY imply that they have a heritage-change operation like Michael Jackson. Or it may suggest that Jgreenlaw is fabricating the whole story.

My posting is accurate regarding two people who really enjoyed Baja as so many Nomads and others do. We are the ones who see the faults and benefits of the country and have decided "on average" it is a good place to be.

Don't quit Baja, let's go to the funkiest puerco slinging roadside cart and gorge ourselves, because life is short and living it, in whatever manner we do, was already determined long before we were born. I'm buying, if you're eating.

P.S. It may be unclean to call it SPAM, but not unethical.

Bajahowodd - 2-9-2010 at 06:56 PM

I have a recipe for puerco tar tar. anyone interested?

DENNIS - 2-9-2010 at 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajahowodd
I have a recipe for puerco tar tar. anyone interested?

YUK...

mulegemichael - 2-9-2010 at 08:04 PM

oh, fer chrissakes....too much pork, too little time

Eugenio - 2-10-2010 at 02:03 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by JESSE
Considering the total yearly cases in Mexico are around 20, your friends where incredibly unlucky.

I don't know what the definition of a "case" is here - death maybe....but trust me trichinosis is endemic in Mexico - probably 10% or so of the population has been exposed. My Dad was a large animal vet in Mexico...it's a problem in swine, rats, and humans.

For what it's worth it also exists in the US - I don't know how prevalency compares between the two countries.

Eugenio - 2-10-2010 at 02:15 AM

Here's a study that searched for presence of the antibody in a group of school kids in Mexico City - prevalence was 3.3% There's an english summary on the upper right.

http://www.medigraphic.com/pdfs/patol/pt-2000/pt003d.pdf

The method here was only able to detect the level of antibodies above a certain level - so the real rate of infection is some number higher than 3.3%.

Who knows how city kids compare to the population at large.

wessongroup - 2-10-2010 at 06:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Eugenio
Here's a study that searched for presence of the antibody in a group of school kids in Mexico City - prevalence was 3.3% There's an english summary on the upper right.

http://www.medigraphic.com/pdfs/patol/pt-2000/pt003d.pdf

The method here was only able to detect the level of antibodies above a certain level - so the real rate of infection is some number higher than 3.3%.

Who knows how city kids compare to the population at large.

Thanks very much for the report..

Check CDC.. here is their position dated 2008

Is trichinellosis common in the United States?

Infection was once very common and usually caused by ingestion of undercooked pork. However, infection is now relatively rare. During 1997-2001, an average of 12 cases per year were reported. The number of cases has decreased because of legislation prohibiting the feeding of raw-meat garbage to hogs, commercial and home freezing of pork, and the public awareness of the danger of eating raw or undercooked pork products. Cases are less commonly associated with pork products and more often associated with eating raw or undercooked wild game meats.

Eugenio - 2-10-2010 at 10:11 AM

Thanks wesson - here's another article that might explain why trichinosis MIGHT be more prevalent n Mexico - backyard pigs - in this study 12 % of backyard pigs in Toluca were confirmed with the antibody. I imagine backyard pigs in Mexico would be more likely to find their way into commericial eating situations. I also imagine that commercial sources of sdwine in either country has close to zero trichinella . But the situation is a lot more complex than simply that. Diagnosis of trichosis is not an easy one - and the only difinitive test is finding the larvae in muscle tissue.

http://www.trichinella.org/cit1.php

Swine trichinellosis in slaughterhouses of the metropolitan area of Toluca
Reference Type:
JOUR
Authors:
Monroy H;Flores-Trujillo M;Benitez E;Arriaga C;
Journal Name:
Parasite
Volume & Pages:
Volume 8, Suppl 2, Page S249-S251
Publication Date:
2001
Abstract:
In order to determine the prevalence of Trichinella spiralis infections in abattoirs of the metropolitan area of Toluca where pigs from commercial farms as well as backyard pigs are slaughtered, 539 swine diaphragm tissue samples were collected and examined by trichinoscopy and artificial digestion. Serum samples from the same animals were analyzed by ELISA using somatic and excretory/secretory antigens, and by Western blot analysis. T. spiralis muscle larvae were not found by trichinoscopy or artificial digestion. However, specific antibodies were detected by ELISA and confirmed by Western blotting in 12.4% of the serum samples examined. Analysis of risk factors showed no association of seropositive results with sex. However, significant higher risk was observed in swine seven to 12 months old and in backyard pigs, compared with pigs from commercial farms.
Keywords:
analysis;Animal;antibodies

igestion;ELISA;muscle;parasite;Prevalence;serum;Sex;Swine;tissue;Trichinella;Trichinella spiralis;
Email:
camila@micro.inifap.conacyt.mx

see also: http://www.medicinenet.com/trichinosis/article.htm

Point is: Cook your meat - especially poultry and pork - no matter what country you are in.

Trichinosis

C-Urchin - 2-11-2010 at 12:19 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by JESSE
Considering the total yearly cases in Mexico are around 20, your friends where incredibly unlucky.

I wonder how many cases we get in the US per year?

wessongroup - 2-12-2010 at 08:06 AM

4-10 per year per CDC

Eugenio - 2-12-2010 at 11:13 AM

Yeah..as long as we don't confuse cases reported to the CDC with either cases in the real world or presence of the antibody.

In most cases the patient is treated for symptoms, recovers, and no determination is made whether it's trichinosis.

As someone stated above - almost all "cases" reported to the CDC in the US are from eating wild animals.

wessongroup - 2-12-2010 at 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Eugenio
Yeah..as long as we don't confuse cases reported to the CDC with either cases in the real world or presence of the antibody.

In most cases the patient is treated for symptoms, recovers, and no determination is made whether it's trichinosis.

As someone stated above - almost all "cases" reported to the CDC in the US are from eating wild animals.

Perhaps this should be brought to the attention of the CDC so their records would be reflective of your concerns, I'm sure they would welcome this knowledge..

As for how many report cases... then where does one find this information?

Please advise

Bajahowodd - 2-12-2010 at 01:28 PM

Let me get this straight. Ethnic Chinese should refrain from eating pork or game, and drinking soda while in Baja! Got it! :lol:

Eugenio - 2-12-2010 at 02:22 PM

Wesson - I doubt that the CDC needs any input from me - They're already aware of the difference between what gets reported to them and the prevalence of disease in the field (see H1N1 example way below).

Read through the following article from medicinenet - I've include an excerpt - but follow the link and read the entire multipage article. I think it'll give you a little more background.

http://www.medicinenet.com/trichinosis/page3.htm

How is trichinosis treated?

Most trichinosis infections, according to the experts, are subclinical or have minor symptoms and do not require any treatment as they are self-limited (all symptoms resolve without treatment). In patients with more intense symptoms, thiabendazole (Mintezol) can be used to eliminate the adult worms in the gastrointestinal tract. Albendazole (Albenza) is another drug that may be used in some cases. The invasive and encysted larva forms of Trichinella species are treated by mebendazole (Vermox). Inflammation of infected tissues is usually treated with prednisone and is frequently used in combination with mebendazole.

Are there complications associated with trichinosis?

About 90%-95% of trichinosis infections have either minor or no symptoms and no complications. Patients with more serious symptoms, however, may develop complications such as heart muscle inflammation (myocarditis), pulmonary problems such as cough, short of breath or lung hemorrhage (lung bleeding). Also, central nervous system (CNS) problems may develop. The CNS symptoms are diverse; they include confusion, delirium, ataxia, seizures, vertigo, auditory and speech changes along with many other neurological deficits. For some patients, these complications can slowly resolve over six months. In other patients, the complications can persist for years.

Wesson - to demonstrate the disparity between what the CDC reports and what happens in the field take a look at the differences in figures for H1N1 last year: This is from the CDC website...

From: http://www.cdc.gov/eid/content/15/12/2004.htm

Abstract
Through July 2009, a total of 43,677 laboratory-confirmed cases of influenza A pandemic (H1N1) 2009 were reported in the United States, which is likely a substantial underestimate of the true number. Correcting for under-ascertainment using a multiplier model, we estimate that 1.8 million–5.7 million cases occurred, including 9,000–21,000 hospitalizations.

Hope this helps Wesson. If you don't want to take trichinosis seriously I guess that's your right. You shouldn't need me to do these searches for you...

Donjulio - 2-12-2010 at 02:46 PM

And one of the dancers shoes may slip off her foot while she is swinging around the pole and her heel may embed itself directly into my heart and kill me.

Eugenio - 2-12-2010 at 03:11 PM

Nice compliment.

And that's exactly why so many folks are working hard in the Public Health sector .... teams of infectious disease specialists, statiticians, meat inspectors, scientists, etc do their job well - that is the thanks they've come to expect and the real measure of their success...nonchalance...some drunk whistling as he walks by the graveyard.

wessongroup - 2-12-2010 at 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Eugenio
Wesson - I doubt that the CDC needs any input from me - They're already aware of the difference between what gets reported to them and the prevalence of disease in the field (see H1N1 example way below).

Read through the following article from medicinenet - I've include an excerpt - but follow the link and read the entire multipage article. I think it'll give you a little more background.

http://www.medicinenet.com/trichinosis/page3.htm

How is trichinosis treated?

Most trichinosis infections, according to the experts, are subclinical or have minor symptoms and do not require any treatment as they are self-limited (all symptoms resolve without treatment). In patients with more intense symptoms, thiabendazole (Mintezol) can be used to eliminate the adult worms in the gastrointestinal tract. Albendazole (Albenza) is another drug that may be used in some cases. The invasive and encysted larva forms of Trichinella species are treated by mebendazole (Vermox). Inflammation of infected tissues is usually treated with prednisone and is frequently used in combination with mebendazole.

Are there complications associated with trichinosis?

About 90%-95% of trichinosis infections have either minor or no symptoms and no complications. Patients with more serious symptoms, however, may develop complications such as heart muscle inflammation (myocarditis), pulmonary problems such as cough, short of breath or lung hemorrhage (lung bleeding). Also, central nervous system (CNS) problems may develop. The CNS symptoms are diverse; they include confusion, delirium, ataxia, seizures, vertigo, auditory and speech changes along with many other neurological deficits. For some patients, these complications can slowly resolve over six months. In other patients, the complications can persist for years.

Wesson - to demonstrate the disparity between what the CDC reports and what happens in the field take a look at the differences in figures for H1N1 last year: This is from the CDC website...

From: http://www.cdc.gov/eid/content/15/12/2004.htm

Abstract
Through July 2009, a total of 43,677 laboratory-confirmed cases of influenza A pandemic (H1N1) 2009 were reported in the United States, which is likely a substantial underestimate of the true number. Correcting for under-ascertainment using a multiplier model, we estimate that 1.8 million–5.7 million cases occurred, including 9,000–21,000 hospitalizations.

Hope this helps Wesson. If you don't want to take trichinosis seriously I guess that's your right. You shouldn't need me to do these searches for you...

Eugenio

Was a broad brush stoke to point out the level of "noted" infection by the CDC, as for the research, this is where I got mine... not inclusive of all work done, but gave one an idea of the extent of the disease today in the United States, skimmed it to get the numbers I put up... they are not the CDC, rather mine.. as for taking it seriously, I cook my pork and had a few courses in Micro, and invertebrate zoology plus work with State and Federal Health Departments, also was unaware that I had made any request for research to anyone.

CDC was saying that there were 12 cases per year reported from 1997 to 2001

http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dpd/parasites/trichinosis/factsht_...

Is it an exact number.. who would think that .. Human Health and Food Industry go back a few years.. ever read Upton Sinclair.. well now there is real health concerns about the food industry and its regulation...

I believe that the "thrust" of the point made is that the overall infection rate from this disease is not an immediate Health threat to the people of the United States, nor to Mexico.. the findings were 3.3% on the study group of 47 or 54 boys and don't remember the number of young girls.. but their numbers were lower than the boys.

What does that percentage mean.. it's mean exactly what was reported, in my book

I don't wish to speculate on estimates of health concerns... to the public.. would rather deal in the facts developed from systematic research and controlled data collection

The last little bit of speculative numbers got us into a real binding $$ wise

As to current "swine flue" epidemic .. forget it.. it's been taken into the realm of "public perception".. All science is gone, alone with rational thought..

And we had "swine flue" around 35 years ago in the United States... as I recall there was about the same over reaction.. we are going to die!! well we did not..

The CDC report, illustrated this disease was a significant problem some years back, but though education, and staffing of the USDA, a positive degree of control over the disease was achieved and the results is that problem has been reduced considerably

The Gull - 2-12-2010 at 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Eugenio
As someone stated above - almost all "cases" reported to the CDC in the US are from eating wild animals.

Eugenio, can you tell us how "wild" the animals have to be?

The Gull - 2-12-2010 at 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Eugenio
Nice compliment.

And that's exactly why so many folks are working hard in the Public Health sector .... teams of infectious disease specialists, statiticians, meat inspectors, scientists, etc do their job well - that is the thanks they've come to expect and the real measure of their success...nonchalance...some drunk whistling as he walks by the graveyard.

How do you know he's drunk? In your book, does someone have to be drunk to be nonchalant?

If someone is worried about having a stilletto heeled shoe pierce his chest and kill him at a pole dancing event, you should consider his views. We are all entitled to our opinions or are their some more "titled" than others, Dr.?

Donjulio - 2-12-2010 at 06:57 PM

Hey I already had my heart severely pierced by a pole dance but it wasnt from her shoe hahahaha. Thats a whole other story though. And we'll save it for the book.

wessongroup - 2-12-2010 at 07:08 PM

Checked on that with the CDC, said they did not feel it would be classified as an infectious disease, they did suggest that you should sit further from the stage!! :lol:

wessongroup - 10-17-2011 at 07:15 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by tripledigitken

Just looking for the VA forms links... and stumbled over this...

Way to go Ken... I think... :biggrin:

tripledigitken - 10-17-2011 at 07:28 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by wessongroup

Quote:

Originally posted by tripledigitken

Just looking for the VA forms links... and stumbled over this...

Way to go Ken... I think... :biggrin:

Clarification is in order. These morsels are precooked to this stage, then when the order is taken they are finished on the grill. Bacon is one of the few meats I don't eat medium rare.

:lol:

wessongroup - 10-17-2011 at 07:39 AM

Well, only say "this" gave me an appetite at this time in the morning... I'm one sick puppy,, :lol:

And let's not forget the toppings... by the way is that a jalapeno in the background of the pict :biggrin:

[Edited on 10-17-2011 by wessongroup]

mtgoat666 - 10-17-2011 at 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS
Pork products are mishandled everywhere. Just ask the Muslims.

Just don't eat pork unless you cook it yourself.

the muslims and jews are pretty smart: safest to eliminate pork from your diet!

wessongroup - 10-17-2011 at 11:06 AM

pork is the least of my worries...

production and processing is a whole different story...

[Edited on 10-17-2011 by wessongroup]

World distribution of Trichinella spp. infections in

Pompano - 10-17-2011 at 03:51 PM

(Hot from Italy about eating pork. Grazie!)

"World distribution of Trichinella spp. infections in animals and humans."

Edoardo Pozio

Department of Infectious, Parasitic and Immunomediated Diseases,
Istituto Superiore di Sanita

viale Regina Elena 299, 00161 Rome, Italy

Nematode worms of the genus Trichinella are one of the most widespread zoonotic pathogens in the world. Infection by Trichinella spp. has been detected in domestic and/or wild animals of all continents, with the exception of Antarctica, where there is no record of the parasite. This global distribution of Trichinella, together with different cultural eating habits, represents the main factor
favouring human infections in industrialised and nonindustrialised
countries. Major political and economic changes, revolutions and wars can contribute to an increase in prevalence among the human population.

Reliable epidemiological information on animal and human infections is not uniformly collected around the world. Only a limited number of countries have implemented an official recording system for human
and/or animal infections in the last 50 years. In most countries, reporting of infection has been and continues to be on a voluntary basis and relies on physicians, veterinarians, biologists, zoologists or epidemiologists who are working on these parasites. This often results in fragmentary information.

The occurrence of trichinellosis in humans is strictly related to cultural food practices, including the consumption of raw or undercooked meat of different animal origin. Therefore, most of the epidemiological
data and ad hoc surveys on Trichinella spp. in domestic and/or wild animals are related to outbreaks in humans.

Mexico

Human trichinellosis frequently occurs in Mexico from the consumption of pork from domestic pigs. According to published information, 766 infections with 14 deaths were documented between 1952 and 1997.

The number of infections has likely been underestimated as suggested by a serological survey where 1.9% of 954 serum
samples randomly collected in a rural area in 1997 were positive.

The prevalence of infection in domestic pigs detected by artificial digestion in different Mexican states, ranged between 0.0% and 6.0% from 1986 to 1999.

Trichinella sp. infection is also present in domestic and stray dogs and cats and in synanthropic rats living nearby foci of porcine infection

T. spiralis was detected in slaughtered horses in the State of Mexico

No information is available on Trichinella sp. infection in Mexican wildlife.

United States

Before the Second World War, the prevalence of trichinellosis reached 36% in examined human cadavers and the main source of infection was pork fromdomestic pigs where the prevalence of T. spiralis infection was as high as 11.0% in garbage-fed pigs and up to 0.95% in farm-raised pigs.

Only 72 cases were reported during the period 1997–2001. The sourceof infection was identified or suspected for 52 infected people: 30 (43%) cases were associated with eating wild game (bear, cougar or wild boar meat), 12 (17%) cases were associated with eating commercial pork products, and nine (13%) cases were associated with eating noncommercial pork from home-raised or direct-from-farm swine where U.S. commercial pork production industry standards and regulations do not apply.

Trichinella spp. infections are widespread in wildlife (e.g. black and brown bears, cougar, raccoon, coyote, red and grey foxes, wolverine, fisher, mink, skunk badger, weasel, river otter, and wild
boar) but the prevalence of infection varies considerably from one state to another.

The domestic cycle is currently very rare and infected pigs are usually from organic farms or from farms with very poor hygienic conditions.

T.murrelli is the main etiological agent of infection in wildlife, although T. spiralis is still present, attesting to the existence of the domestic cycle in the past. The freezing resistant species T. nativa and Trichinella T6 are present in wildlife from states close to the Canadian
border. However, both T. nativa and Trichinella T6 have been also detected in wildlife living in the Rocky Mountains and Appalachians

T. pseudospiralis was detected in a vulture from Alabama and in a wild pig from Texas .

The only legislation in the U.S. regarding Trichinella are the processed product rules which govern cooking, freezing and curing methods for ready-to-eat pork and pork products.

Special agreements exist with the European Union, Russia, Japan and several other countries which allows to test pork intended for export
using artificial digestion methods. A pilot ‘‘Trichinae Certification Program’’ is currently in progress in 50 states.

Canada

Trichinella spp. is widespread in Canadian both terrestrial and marine wildlife, but prevelance varies considerably from one province to another.

The yearly incidence of infections in humans is about 10–15 cases, due to the consumption of game meat from black bears and walruses.

There has been no documented report of Trichinella sp. infection in domestic pigs in the last 10 years

T. nativa and Trichinella T6 are predominant in wildlife, whereas T. murrelli has been detected only in the Vancouver area close to the border with the United States.

Non-encapsulated larvae, probably T. pseudospiralis, were detected in a bird.

T. spiralis has been detected in Trichinellosis outbreaks occur for the consumption of walrus meat.

.

Trichinella sp. infection in wildlife. This information will greatly increase our knowledge on this zoonosis in the European Union in the course of the following years.

In conclusion, Trichinella sp. infection in humanswas documented in 55 (27.8%) countries, but in some of these countries trichinellosis occurred only among ethnic minorities and tourists, because the native inhabitants do not consume uncooked meat or meat of some animal species.

The average yearly incidence of the disease in humans worldwide is
probably close to ten-thousand cases with a mortality rate of about 0.2%; however, the number of infections is underreported in many countries due to the lack of appropriate serological tests and the knowledge of the disease on the part of physicians.

Trichinella sp. infection was documented in domestic animals (mainly pigs) of 43 (21.9%) countries and in wildlife of 66 (33.3%) countries.

Information on the occurrence of Trichinella sp. infection in domestic and/or wildlife is still lacking for 92 countries.

[Edited on 10-18-2011 by Pompano]

baja1943 - 10-18-2011 at 05:36 AM

Soak your pork in Mescal.

Skipjack Joe - 10-18-2011 at 06:16 AM

Looks like I'll have to cut down on my walrus diet.

Marc - 10-18-2011 at 06:35 AM

Must'a been hanging out at Ray's.

burnrope - 10-18-2011 at 08:36 AM

In the interest of science, I consumed a Carnitas Torta NOB yesterday. I'll keep you posted. Does anyone know the incubation time for trichinosis?

Bajatripper - 10-18-2011 at 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by C-Urchin

Quote:

Originally posted by JESSE
Considering the total yearly cases in Mexico are around 20, your friends where incredibly unlucky.

I wonder how many cases we get in the US per year?

Wessongroup's post a couple above yours says that 12 cases per year on average are reported in the US.

CortezBlue - 10-18-2011 at 01:49 PM

Symptoms
By Mayo Clinic staff

Abdominal symptoms can occur within two to seven days of infection. Other symptoms usually start one to eight weeks later. Severity of symptoms usually depends on the number of larvae consumed in the infected meat.

Possibly no signs or symptoms
Mild cases of trichinosis — those with only a small number of parasites in your body — may cause no recognizable symptoms. Symptoms can develop with moderate or heavy infestation, sometimes progressing as the parasite migrates through your body.

Initial signs and symptoms
You swallow trichinella larvae encased in a cyst. Your digestive juices dissolve the cyst, releasing the parasite into your body. The larvae then penetrate the intestine, where they mature into adult worms and mate. At this stage, you may experience:

Diarrhea
Abdominal cramps
Malaise
Later signs and symptoms
About a week after infection, the adult female worms produce larvae that penetrate the intestinal wall, enter your bloodstream and eventually burrow into muscle or other tissue. This tissue invasion can cause:

High fever
Muscle pain and tenderness
Swelling of the eyelids or face
Weakness
Headache
Sensitivity to light
Pink eye (conjunctivitis)
When to see a doctor
If you have a mild case of trichinosis with no symptoms, you may never need medical attention. If you notice gastrointestinal problems or muscle pain and swelling about a week after eating pork or wild-animal meat, talk to your doctor.

There is no effective treatment to eliminate trichinella once larvae invade tissue. At that point, treatment is for symptoms only until the parasites die on their own.

wessongroup - 10-18-2011 at 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajatripper

Quote:

Originally posted by C-Urchin

Quote:

Originally posted by JESSE
Considering the total yearly cases in Mexico are around 20, your friends where incredibly unlucky.

I wonder how many cases we get in the US per year?

Wessongroup's post a couple above yours says that 12 cases per year on average are reported in the US.

It was Pompano ...

Cypress - 10-18-2011 at 03:04 PM

The only cut of meat better than a hunk of pork is a bigger piece of pork. :biggrin:

JESSE - 10-18-2011 at 03:14 PM

Life is too short, time to wear the appropiate shirt:

tripledigitken - 10-18-2011 at 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JESSE
Life is too short, time to wear the appropiate shirt:

I'll second that! Were braising a big pork shank tomorrow!