BajaNomad - Bad experience in Salvatierra Hospital La Paz

Bad experience in Salvatierra Hospital La Paz

roamingthroughbaja - 2-16-2010 at 01:11 PM

To skip to the bottom line....don't go there. Here's the story:

Late last Tuesday night, my husband suddenly got a pounding feeling in his head, a terrible headache and started vomiting. I decided to get him into the hospital as quickly as possible, which wasn't too fast as he was hanging over the toilet. We went to emergency at Salvatierra as I have had lots of people say that they have the most equipment to handle emergencies--more than the smaller hospitals. We got to emergency, they settled him in a bed and eventually a doctor came to check on him. They took his blood pressure which was very high gave him a shot for pain, some aspirin and some BP meds. They left him under observation for an hour and a half, and then prescribed some medicine basically for acid indigestion, some BP meds and some baby aspirin. Before he left, I asked them to check his blood pressure again. It was still really high, and the doctor commented that everyone who had come to emergency that night had high blood pressure. I asked the doctor to check with another machine. His blood pressure was normal. Oops.

So I took him home, had a very bad night, and in the morning took him to Fidepaz Hospital. It turns out he was bleeding into his brain. Aspirin could have killed him. He's still in hospital today. What were they thinking in Salvatierra? Don't go there.

noproblemo2 - 2-16-2010 at 01:36 PM

OMG I am so sorry to hear this, what an awful experience for both of you. Will say a prayer for his speedy recovery.

roamingthroughbaja - 2-16-2010 at 01:50 PM

Thanks, we can use all of the prayers, good thoughts, positive energy, healing, etc., that you all have.

comitan - 2-16-2010 at 02:15 PM

I hope you complete the story, as to what Fidepaz is doing for this problem. And keep us informed how he is doing.

BAJA.DESERT.RAT - 2-16-2010 at 02:29 PM

Hola, sorry to hear the bad and dangerous treatment your husband received and i hope he is doing well and recovers quickly.

would Salvatierra be the " purple " hospital i have heard of. friends in los barriles have told me that the purple hospital is the only one for gringos to go to in la paz.

i hope it's not !

BIEN SALUD, DA RAT

longlegsinlapaz - 2-16-2010 at 02:55 PM

OMG!! I hope they've figured out the cause & got the bleeding stopped!

I don't know who recommended Salvatierra's ER, but hopefully next time you'll to straight to Fidepaz!

If there is anything I can do, give me a call or e-mail!

Bajahowodd - 2-16-2010 at 03:05 PM

Unfortunately, improperly calibrated equipment and wrong diagnoses are found in hospitals all over the world. There was recently an article in the LA Times noting a number of hospitals in California were fined for such violations. Just last year Cedars Sinai was found to have been grossly overexposing patients to radiation because of a failure to monitor equipment settings. There are organizations that survey this type of information and regularly publish lists of the best facilities to consider. I am not so sure that any such program exists in Mexico. Nor do I know if there is any government oversight of the kind. What you appear to have described may be a hemorrhagic stroke. It is the less common form of stroke. In fact, it is not uncommon for EMT personnel to do exactly what happened in your husband's case, and treat the more common form with blood-thinning medication. I'm with comitan with curiosity as to what Fidepaz may have done differently. Sometimes, it just boils down to who the doctor is on duty, and how familiar they may be with certain symptoms and conditions.

In any event, I sincerely hope your husband recovers fully, and without incident.

arrowhead - 2-16-2010 at 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by longlegsinlapaz
OMG!! I hope they've figured out the cause & got the bleeding stopped!

I don't know who recommended Salvatierra's ER, but hopefully next time you'll to straight to Fidepaz!

Quote:

Originally posted by longlegsinlapaz 10-1-2008
I'm not a vet & too young for Medicare. Why so many seem to feel the necessity to travel to the US for medical is beyond me! There is very good medical here. You may have to search around a little to find a doctor you like, but the medical care here is better than in the US in many ways because they don't have the latest in equipment & diagnostic tools, which means they have to use one of the oldest tools know to man....their BRAIN. Here, doctors actually spend time with you & talk with you to get information & symptoms to actually diagnose, rather than run you through on a conveyor belt, handing out slips to go here for this test & then go there for that test.

It's time to stop pimping the Mexican medical system to naive gringos. It is not even close to the quality standards found in the US. Nobody with an IQ above room temperature goes to Mexico for better medical treatment. I'll bet you won't find one single Mexican with emergency EMS evacuation insurance to take them out of the US and back to Mexico in case of an emergency. Just deal with the realities for a change.

[Edited on 2-16-2010 by arrowhead]

gnukid - 2-16-2010 at 03:55 PM

Arrowhead, your lack of empathy and consideration to the patient who is suffering epitomizes the failure of the American medical system. Furthermore, your ignorance of the facts combined with prejudice is well evident. US hospitals suffer greatly from errors and also epidemics of contagious drug resistant infections such as staff infections are an epidemic risk. Anyone heading into any hospital is at risk of increased complications due to hospital related errors especially in the USA.

In fact, in America one of the leading causes of death is in-hospital medical errors making USA hospital errors the leading common cause of death in the USA.

Here are links that back up the severity of the problem:

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/printerfriendlynews.php?news...

http://www.hospitalinfection.org/essentialfacts.shtml

http://pajamasmedia.com/phyllischesler/2008/11/13/death-by-h...

The Salvatierra and Fidepaz hospitals are known to be compassionate, affordable and generally provide excellent care. I have had many friends who have required care and Salvatierra was excellent, though it should be clear that each patient must be aware of the chance for errors.

bajabass - 2-16-2010 at 03:56 PM

I hope your husband is fine RTB. Sounds like there is a need for competent doctors in BCS. Hope to bring Dr./Mrs. Bajabass down soon. Again, I hope all ends well!

roamingthroughbaja - 2-16-2010 at 04:04 PM

In Fidepaz, which is the purple hospital, they gave him a series of tests, blood, urine, neck Xray and cat scan. The cat scan is how they discovered the bleeding. He has since had an angiogram at the oncology clinic...the dirtiest place I have seen in a long time. He had a bad reaction to the contrast media, but a good result from the test. They think there is a 90% chance that the bleeding was due to vascular spasm, leaving a 10% chance that an aneurism shrank under the medication they were giving him. Right now is he still suffering from the effects of the dye (contrast media). In 3 weeks or so we will have to travel to Guadalajara for an MRangiogram as they do not have the equipment in La Paz.

To comment on Salvatierra, the emergency room doctor was necking with one of the nurses, had faulty equipment, didn't take any kind of history, and when I disagreed with the diagnosis of acid indigestion, just gave me a blank look. The doctor at Fidepaz said that extreme pain in the head plus vomiting are clear symtoms of aneurism.

We had a few bad moments in Fidepaz, too. Like the night that he was in intensive care and supposed to be monitored 24 hours a day, but all the nursing staff were doing each others hair at the front desk. I was taking a break talking to a doctor friend of mine. When I returned to his room, every alarm and light had been flashing for 20 minutes, without attention from the staff. Very hard on his blood pressure and no way to help himself. After that, I never left the room for more than 10 minutes unless a friend was with him.

Yes, I agree, you can get lucky here. I know that he might have been waiting for 10-12 hours in an emergency room in Canada before receiving assistance, and there are lots of bad stories about the Canadian health care system. My point is that Salvatierra is not a good choice in an emergency. My advice is to go straight to Fidepaz, don't leave your spouse alone for very long, check and double check everything, sleep in the room. Get family there to help so you don't end up sick (like I am). There is good care down here but you have to be involved.

This sounds like a pretty strong rant for me, but I would hate anyone to make a mistake like I did. I'll be back to being nice soon, I promise.

bajabass - 2-16-2010 at 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by gnukid
Arrowhead, your lack of empathy and consideration to the patient who is suffering epitomizes the failure of the American medical system. Furthermore, your ignorance of the facts combined with prejudice is well evident. US hospitals suffer greatly from errors and also epidemics of contagious drug resistant infections such as staff infections are an epidemic risk. Anyone heading into any hospital is at risk of increased complications due to hospital related errors especially in the USA.

In fact, in America one of the leading causes of death is in-hospital medical errors making USA hospital errors the leading common cause of death in the USA.

Here are links that back up the severity of the problem:

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/printerfriendlynews.php?news...

http://www.hospitalinfection.org/essentialfacts.shtml

http://pajamasmedia.com/phyllischesler/2008/11/13/death-by-h...

The Salvatierra and Fidepaz hospitals are known to be compassionate, affordable and generally provide excellent care. I have had many friends who have required care and Salvatierra was excellent, though it should be clear that each patient must be aware of the chance for errors.

Right you are kid! Many people come out of the hospital sicker than when they entered. I am married to a Mexican doctora and my mother was a nurse for 40 years. Her position as the infectious control specialist was to identify and eradicate these horrible infections that spread in hospitals. In her words, "a thankless full time job". I love a doctor and a nurse, but in my opinion, hospitals are full of sick people, so I stay away. I have spent 3 nights in 51 years of life in the hospital, 3 too many in my book!! Get fixed, get out, before you end up even more sick.

wessongroup - 2-16-2010 at 04:14 PM

My last four "experiences" with the American Hospitals almost killed me every time.. its a story I don't wish to go over again.. let's just say, if you must go in... have someone with you like this poor lady.. you need all the help you can get... if it were not for my wife I would be dead...

I hope he is OK... take care.. hang in there.. it will be OK with your help, I know it...

Wiley

arrowhead - 2-16-2010 at 04:49 PM

Quote:

Actually, Paul, I have considerable empathy, compassion and consideration for the patient. That is why I am so adamant that you Mexico sycophants not exaggerate the quality of medical care in Mexico and sucker more people into thinking it is better.

As for your analysis, if you asked me what the score was in the Superbowl game and I told you the score as "10", would you be happy with that? Wouldn't you want to know the score for BOTH teams?

World Health Care rankings:

US - 37
Mexico - 61

US Medical training:
4 years of college
4 years of med school, pass national boards Part 1
1 year of internship, pass national boards Part 2
3-7 years of residency

Mexican Medical training
4 years of med school out of high school
1 year internship/social service
pass medical exam

Like I said, just deal with the realities. Just because you hate the US, does not mean you get to exagerate about the quality of medical care in Mexico.

arrowhead - 2-16-2010 at 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajabass
Right you are kid! Many people come out of the hospital sicker than when they entered.

Wow! Really? Would that be because only sick people go INTO hospitals? Here's an even bigger news flash for you: Nobody buried in a cemetary ever comes out alive.

Just for curiosity, to you happen to know how many people come out of Hussong's drunker than when they went in?

Bajahowodd - 2-16-2010 at 05:05 PM

Very cute, arrowhead. But the fact remains that there are myriad expats in Mexico. If they are in major cities, such as La Paz, and suffer an emergency, they are probably much better off seeking local treatment than trying to arrange med-evac. Yet given the track record of US hospitals, one must wonder if that's any better. That said, people with debilitating chronic issues really need to think twice about living in a foreign country. That is, unless you have already resolved that you wish to have your ashes scattered on the Sea of Cortez.

roamingthroughbaja - 2-16-2010 at 05:29 PM

Well, we have all thought about what would happen if something bad happened. When Fidepaz Hospital told me I had breast cancer, I zoomed back to Canada as soon as I could get a flight. (I didn't have cancer.) However, you can't put someone with an aneurism on an airplane. You just have to do the best you can with what there is. My point was, and is, don't go to Salvatierra. Fidepaz is the best bet in La Paz even though they also screw things up at times.

k-rico - 2-16-2010 at 05:31 PM

Hospitals in Mexico? They range from horrible to great. Hospitals in the US, they range from OK in most cases to great.

Definitely riskier in Mexico unless you understand there are many very sub-standard places and know how to avoid them, and also know how to get to the quality places.

That's my cut on the situation.

BTW, that also applies to restaurants, mechanics, and most other businesses.

[Edited on 2-17-2010 by k-rico]

gnukid - 2-16-2010 at 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by arrowhead

Like I said, just deal with the realities. Just because you hate the US, does not mean you get to exagerate about the quality of medical care in Mexico.

I wish the patient the best and a speedy recovery.

Arrowhead, your bias and denial of the facts illustrates the fault with your logic in bashing Mexico versus the US. Your "we are better" argument has no real scientific merit, your fearmongering is entirely a prejudice and it's a shallow prejudice which is of the offensive kind, in particular in this case in light of someone's suffering. Your intent is to fear monger for no purpose other than that to fear monger based on falsehoods which is evident by your pattern of posts which are not only consistently negative but blatantly false.

Interesting that your bias outweighs the documented evidence that US hospitals errors are the leading common cause of death in the US and that the US suffers greatly from antibiotic resistant infections, in particular MRSA or methicillin-resistant staph, which has been documented to be increasingly a US specific malady. I know because I have lost many friends to MRSA which was caused only by visiting a US hospital for an otherwise healthy person.

Moreover, at more than 195,000 deaths a year from US hospital error in addition to MRSA deaths as 13,000/yr, the US hospitals are in fact a danger unto themselves, the leading common cause of death in the USA.

In the USA you are more likely to die from catching a resistant infection like MRSA in a USA hospital than from AIDS: Arrowhead your prejudice against Mexico deludes you.

Your myopic view of Mexico has no merit, neither as anecdote nor based on science, in this case, as in most of your posts, your myopia is pure vitriolic nonsense.

MRSA
http://www.slate.com/id/2152118/

In response to your comments about Mexico hospitals, having traveled around the world and visited many hospitals where tourists visited for accidents and illness from moped accidents to viral infections, Mexico health-care employes a method where doctors ask questions, listen, proceed carefully with attention to many factors which affect patients.

The scenario noted here was equipment failure, this could and does happen anywhere and everywhere and was discovered in the process.

I have another story, a cancer patient was visiting here on his last legs to enjoy a few more moments of serenity, finally his US doctors insisted he get blood tests and fax them, a visit to a local La Paz lab realized the complete results at a cost of 200 pesos which would have run US$2000 at home.

The care we receive in Baja is kind, compassionate, sophisticated and beneficial, unlike the US which is impersonal, focused on drug solutions, dangerous and outrageously costly to the point of being ineffectual.

US doctors receive very little nutritional training which is the leading cause of illness, while promoting medicine as leading solution which it often is not.

http://caloriecount.about.com/doctors-nutrition-know-trainin...

http://www.jacn.org/cgi/content/full/27/1/59

I cited evidence of an increased risk in US hospitals which you avoided. You are a blatant anti-Mexico propagandist who adds nothing here and obfuscates with a myopic view of the facts which is of no help, neither newsworthy nor bearing common sense.

As we move forward in this new century, we require both evidence of scientific fact and a sense of scientific objectivity, chance of uncertainty and certainly the normal likelihood of errors.

Your lack of ability to discern fact from fiction has marginalized your posts to hyperbole to be readily dismissed. Your posts, often accompanied by veiled threats, ad hominem attacks, and avoidance of common sense are of no value here though you would be welcome on Glenn Beck's forums or perhaps shills like other fear mongering talking heads.

Realistically comparing US to Mexican hospitals we can see there are serious failures of the US system whose technological benefits can help a few seriously ill patients but generally the lack of basic common sense, personal interaction, availability and affordability makes Mexico's hospitals a surprisingly wonderful option over the best US hospitals which are documented to be highly risky, costly and ineffectual for most people.

Most of us here have no interest in convincing you, if you want to review the healthcare benefits of Mexico versus US realistically you can do that on your own, however your negative bias is not based in either fact nor practical use.

http://news.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=healthNews&am...

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/hospital_errors.html

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/deadbymistake/6555095.ht...

http://www.webmd.com/skin-problems-and-treatments/news/20071...

My home hospital is Stanford Hospital which is considered one of the best in the USA though I prefer doctors in La Paz. I might also note that there exists special clinics in the USA, often in basements of hospitals like Stanford, which are open to anyone at no cost called Rotoclinics offering affordable care to Mexicans among others. These are excellent and employ the same consideration as Mexican hospitals' method of asking about your overall health while considering the diagnosis.

[Edited on 2-17-2010 by gnukid]

roamingthroughbaja - 2-16-2010 at 06:13 PM

Well, gnukid, I don't disagree with you. Except that the failure was not with the equipment but with the emergency doctor. Yes, the BP cuff was not working, and no one had realized it until I pointed out that it was not logical that everyone who had come into emergency that night had high blood pressure, but that is not where the diagnosis of acid indigestion came from. That is not where the perscription for aspirin came from, or the aspirin based shot for the pain. The doctor was an idiot! To keep this thread on topic: please, if you have an emergency, don't go to Salvatierra.

gnukid - 2-16-2010 at 06:23 PM

RTB I am sure you are correct. I hope he feels better soon. My best wishes to you two.

comitan - 2-16-2010 at 06:38 PM

Good Doctors, Bad Doctors Mexico or USA

Good Doctors, Bad Doctors Salvatierra or Fidepaz

For everyone's Info Many of the Doctors that work at Fidepaz also work at Salvatierra and Visa Versa.

oldjack - 2-16-2010 at 07:00 PM

"the doctor"
as a person who may need to use one of those hospitals someday(hopefully never) I think the original post does a disservice to the board... what was the Dr's name.... that would be more useful to me rather than saying eliminate a possible source should I need aid... I am in Los Barriles and frequently spend time in LaPaz.. could be I would want to avoid that doctor!!!!

roamingthroughbaja - 2-16-2010 at 07:10 PM

If you go to Salvatierra and he is on duty, what will you do? I am not going to give his name here at the moment. When this nightmare is over, and my husband is home, I am going to make a formal complaint to the Board of Salvatierra and to whoever else is appropriate. He could have killed my husband, and I would hate like hell if he killed you, or some poor kid, or anyone else. He couldn't diagnose an aneurism in the emergency department, he spent his time kissing a nurse, he gave my husband drugs that worsened his situation. I was trying to do a service, not a disservice, by reporting the situation on this board. Take it or leave it.

vacaenbaja - 2-16-2010 at 07:29 PM

If doctor number one had the advantage of the CAT scan and still treated
the patient the same then I would say idiot.

josie - 2-16-2010 at 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by arrowhead

World Health Care rankings:

US - 37
Mexico - 61

America is only rated 37th? I couldn't believe that was true so I googled it and you are right! Doesn't make me feel that good about health care in the USA though. According to the World Health Care ratings you quote even countries like Andorra, Malta, Oman, Portugal, Iceland, Luxembourg, Switzerland, Belgium, Colombia, Cyprus, Saudi Arabia, United Arab Emirates, Morocco, Finland, Chile, Dominica and Costa Rica have a better health care system than America does.

I don't think I would be waving the flag of victory too high if I were you. I mean come on, Colombia? Morocco? Chile? Costa Rica???

I just hope roamingthroughbaja's husband is OK. I lost a cousin to a bad doctor who misdiagnosed her in an ER in San Antonio a couple of years ago. It happens and it is tragic, no matter where it happens I guess.

roamingthroughbaja - 2-16-2010 at 07:49 PM

No, never did a cat scan because he didn't think it was an aneurism...he diagnosed acid indigestion. However, extreme pain in the head and vomiting are clear symptoms of aneurism. He never checked.

k-rico - 2-16-2010 at 08:00 PM

How's he feeling?

arrowhead - 2-16-2010 at 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by roamingthroughbaja
Well, we have all thought about what would happen if something bad happened. When Fidepaz Hospital told me I had breast cancer, I zoomed back to Canada as soon as I could get a flight. (I didn't have cancer.)

Oh, so you are batting 0 and 2 in Mexico on diagnoses.

Vunderbar. :rolleyes:

roamingthroughbaja - 2-16-2010 at 08:16 PM

It's actually 1 and 3, since Fidepaz did get it right eventually.
K-rico, he is very tired, nauseas and has a headache. They did a second cat scan which showed the blood being reabsorbed. They figure his symptoms are still the result of the reaction he had to the contrast media. It is just not wearing off very fast. Poco a poco and thank God for family and friends.

arrowhead - 2-16-2010 at 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by gnukid

Interesting that your bias outweighs the documented evidence that US hospitals errors are the leading common cause of death in the US and that the US suffers greatly from antibiotic resistant infections, in particular MRSA or methicillin-resistant staph, which has been documented to be increasingly a US specific malady...yada, yada, yada

Paul, you don't seem to understand one friggin word I say. If you want to compare A to B, you can't do it by giving a page of statistics on A and nothing at all on B, and then conclude by saying, "there..see, I've shown that A is worse than B". Where are your stats on Mexico, buey?

k-rico - 2-16-2010 at 08:23 PM

Wow, what a trying time, glad to hear you have others around for support.

arrowhead - 2-16-2010 at 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by josie
I don't think I would be waving the flag of victory too high if I were you. I mean come on, Colombia? Morocco? Chile? Costa Rica???

Read my post again, a little s l o w e r. I never said the US was the best, I just said it was better than Mexico. That is precisely what the stats you Googled said too, right? The issue is with certain people who stare right into your baby blue eyes and insist that Mexico's medical system is better than the US.

...and you people know who you are.

arrowhead - 2-16-2010 at 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by comitan
Just don't go to Mexico for treatment if you have an Arrow in your head. :tumble:

Boy, I sure hope you don't get an aneurysm in your brain straining it to come up with that snappy retort.

josie - 2-16-2010 at 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by arrowhead

Quote:

Originally posted by josie
I don't think I would be waving the flag of victory too high if I were you. I mean come on, Colombia? Morocco? Chile? Costa Rica???

I didn't say that you said the US medical system was the best. I was just pointing out that based on the source you quoted that the US has a lot to improve too. So if someone gets sick in the US do you tell them to quickly jump on a plane to go to Canada, Chile, Morocco or Costa Rica? Using your logic they would be getting better medical attention in any of those countries based on your source, right?

And what are you so angry about? You sound like one of those grumpy old retired men yelling at the neighborhood kids to get off his lawn.

Oh, and my eyes are brown, sorry.

[Edited on 2-17-2010 by josie]

longlegsinlapaz - 2-16-2010 at 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by arrowhead

Quote:

Arrowhead, have you personally ever had any type of medical treatment in La Paz?

"naive gringos?" I think not, the person I was speaking with in my post in this current thread is neither new to this area, nor naive.

"pimping the Mexican medical system"? interesting choice of offensive terminology you chose to use. I don't recall which specific thread my second quote came from, nor will I waste my time researching it, but if you consider my stating/sharing my own personal experiences & knowledge gained in my 10+ years in La Paz to be "pimping the Mexican medical system", so be it! You evidently couldn't find the thread where I posted that I felt Mexican health care exceeds or comes "close to the quality standards found in the US"?????? Please go back & re-read the qualifiers I've highlighted for your benefit in my original statement. Apparently "many ways" must translate to "ALL" in your neck of the woods?

As with anywhere in the world, we're all likely to experience a mix of good & bad experiences, good & bad hospitals, good & bad doctors.

If you'd have searched a little longer, you'd have found my earlier post noting my negative experience at Salvatierra ER, so don't be assuming I'm a Pollyanna....I'm simply honest in sharing my personal experiences with the La Paz medical establishment....favorable & not so favorable.

"Just deal with the realities for a change" Well, golly gee whiz! Here I thought I have been dealing with the realities....MY REALITIES! MY reality is that I live here full time, my only personal negative situation was related to cleanliness; I refused to lay down on a bloody gurney for an invasive procedure; at Salvatierra Hospital ER & I won't go back. If you choose to argue with my positive personal experiences at Fidepaz Hospital, numerous doctors offices & clinics in & around La Paz, then feel free! But I gotta tell ya up front that my personal experiences carry a helluva lot more credibility for me than your offensive Mexico-bashing drivel does.

roamingthroughbaja - 2-16-2010 at 09:26 PM

Wow. You go girl! And I need to point out that I wasn't bashing Mexican health care in general, just Salvatierra's emergency doctor. We have received some good health care in the 7 years we have been here, and some not so good. We learn from our experiences. But this situation was life-threatening. An emergency room doctor should have more on the ball than this kid did.

arrowhead - 2-16-2010 at 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by roamingthroughbaja
Wow. You go girl! And I need to point out that I wasn't bashing Mexican health care in general, just Salvatierra's emergency doctor. We have received some good health care in the 7 years we have been here, and some not so good. We learn from our experiences. But this situation was life-threatening. An emergency room doctor should have more on the ball than this kid did.

Yes, but Comitan just got done saying, "Many of the Doctors that work at Fidepaz also work at Salvatierra and Visa Versa." So that seems to contradict longlegs "realities" and implies a systematic problem. By the way, legs, when you say "my realities", that is really saying "my perceptions". Reality is the same for everybody. Perceptions are different for different people.

longlegsinlapaz - 2-17-2010 at 06:56 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by arrowhead

Quote:

RTB, I didn't read your post as bashing Mexican Health Care in general....I read it as a viable critique of an irresponsible & incompetent doctor on duty at the time you went into Salvatierra ER.

Arrowhead, it's my perception that you weren't aware that all Mexican doctors begin practice rotating among the area hospitals on a regular basis....it's a mandatory obligation, considered as "payback" for their gov-subsidized medical education.

No, what I was really saying is that MY personal experiences become MY reality. I chose my words carefully....I say what I mean & I mean what I say, so don't be telling me what I "really" was saying, I really was saying just what I said. Your perception on the other hand is your perception, not to be confused with my reality!

My perception is that your choice of timing & location to express your thoughts on this particular subject really suck & it shows a total lack of compassion on your part. :no:

Edit punctuation

[Edited on 2-17-2010 by longlegsinlapaz]

ELINVESTIG8R - 2-17-2010 at 07:14 AM

The woman's husband is in a bad way and all we can do is bicker. I hope he gets well soon. I will also say a prayer for him!

[Edited on 2-17-2010 by ELINVESTIG8R]

oldlady - 2-17-2010 at 07:31 AM

What the hay...I'll throw my 2 cents in (maybe a dollars worth).
There's a risk to leaving the medical care of one's home base. If you do that for an extended period of time, it only makes sense to be aware of that difference, decide whether or not you can accept it, and or be aware of what is and isn't available and try to act accordingly.

In Roaming's case, and in the case of my spouse very recently, both were emergency situations in the true sense of the word. Death was highly possible and transporting to home country or even Guadalajara by any means increased that possibilty. Decisions had to be made quickly.
Roamingthroughbaja is by no means the dullest knife in the drawer and is very knowledgeable about her community. She had to make a very fast decision, she did it based on others' advice and her own personal experience and she relayed the facts of her experience for the benefit of others in this forum community. Take her advice or not. Your choice.

I have "pimped" medical care in Mexico on this board. I did so because it was a major concern for me when I moved here. Unfortunately we've had to use it a few times and in each case it exceeded my expectations. Some of my concerns were unfounded and I chose to share that. The facilities and capabilities in La Paz are not equal to most areas of the United States. When time is not of the essence, when complex diagnostics a nd skills are needed....north of border, Guadalajara or DF would be my choice.
But when that is not possible, the experiences and recommendations of others may be all you have to fall back on. Those of us who share our experiences do so for that reason.

Be well, everybody.

k-rico - 2-17-2010 at 08:30 AM

Interesting info - I've been web surfing reading about magnetic resonance angiograms of the brain and found out that in San Diego, prices range from $2,175 to $6,000, that's quite a spread.

prices

I wonder what they cost in Mexico.

oldlady - 2-17-2010 at 08:34 AM

Less, but also a big spread.

roamingthroughbaja - 2-17-2010 at 08:35 AM

I'll let you know in 3 weeks.

josie - 2-17-2010 at 09:52 AM

I will keep your husband in my prayers and hope he makes a complete recovery.

My experience exactly

Dave - 2-17-2010 at 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by oldlady
Unfortunately we've had to use it a few times and in each case it exceeded my expectations.

But only because I'm a world class pessimist. :rolleyes:

BajaGringo - 2-17-2010 at 12:11 PM

Health care is a science practiced by artists. Unfortunately the science depends on equipment that fails sometimes and the artists are human beings who make mistakes as well on occasion. It happens in Mexico and it happens north of the border. I lost a 14 year old daughter almost 6 years ago thanks to a misdiagnosis from a Kaiser Permanente physician in California.

Overall I have been very happy with the health care provided to me here in Mexico. Never had a doc in the US make a house call or give me his home and cell number to call him if I needed him. Life is a roll of the dice but like LongLegs, I will take my chances down here based on my personal experience and history.

roamingthroughbaja - how is your husband doing today?

vandenberg - 2-17-2010 at 01:23 PM

My wife had a tumor removed from her ovaries and during the operation the pathologist decided a complete hysterectomy was in order. Chances of the tumor turning cancerous too great. This was done in the Salvatierra hospital and while the facilities and equipment leave a lot to be desired by our NB standards, the care given by ALL personal was nothing short of outstanding. Total cost below $2000.00 This included all the preliminary work, 3 days hospital, surgeon and all the other folks needed to make such operation successful.
BTW, the surgeon, (whose name escapes me at the moment), owns a major clinic a few blocks from the cathedral, and did a 9 year stint at the Mayo clinic in Rochester, Minn.

comitan - 2-17-2010 at 02:05 PM

Now we're talking about money, we better start collecting now just to get him out of the Hospital(Fidepaz) Thats if they don't find something else to keep him there longer. And yes I've been there!! Hope he recovers soon and gets out of there.

Bill Collector - 2-17-2010 at 02:06 PM

Fidepaz Hospital
We just had a good friend fall and break her hip in 5 places Sunday night here in Buena Vista. She was taken to Fidepaz Hospital. She had surgery on Monday morning, they needed to do a total hip replacement. She's getting very good care, at 78 years old, she came through this very well. . She's to be released on Friday. They told her the cost would be roughly $12,000. US dollars. we are all happy with the care she's been given.

For Better or Worse

Bajahowodd - 2-17-2010 at 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by josie

Quote:

Originally posted by arrowhead

World Health Care rankings:

US - 37
Mexico - 61

There's more to the WHO rankings than has been mentioned in this thread. For instance, the cost per capita of healthcare was factored in to get the final rankings. So, the US actually finished 15th in the standings by performance measures used in the study, but since it spends more on healthcare than any other country, it was adjusted down to 37. Similarly, some of the banana republics and desert kingdoms that rank higher than the US in the final standings, did not attain their rank by the performance measurements. They merely got kick up the rankings because so little money is directed to their healthcare industry.

Not that Americans should be dancing on the table ranking 15th and bearing the burden of the most expensive healthcare system in the world.

roamingthroughbaja - 2-17-2010 at 02:30 PM

Just got back from the hospital. (I can't stay there much because I caught a bug and don't want him to get it. Too little sleep, too much stress.) The doctors were very positive this morning and figured that he could come home tomorrow, but he has to take it very easy. No stress, exercise, coffee, alchohol. Oh dear. However, when I went back a couple of hours later he had spiked a fever and they have him on antibiotic drip. I gotta get him outta there.

Re the cost? To date, $49,000 pesos, not including the cost of the doctors, the neurologist, the ambulance to and from the angiogram and the angiogram itself. I figure that will double by the time we're out of the hospital and we still have to get to Guadalajara for an MR angiogram. Not that I'm complaining. He's still with me and for that I am so grateful.

While I'm being grateful, until you are in this situation, you have no idea how much you need your friends. Dog walking and feeding, plant watering, Oldlady and her husband drove all the way to Cabo to pick up my husband's daughter, our neighbour came in today and cleaned the house and did laundry, friends who have more Spanish/English than I came to the hospital to translate, friends brought me food everyday, got money out of the cash machine for me, started prayer chains...everyone rallied. Thank you all.

comitan - 2-17-2010 at 02:40 PM

It is time for everyone to be thinking POSITIVE thoughts for his recovery......................

I Second That!

Bajahowodd - 2-17-2010 at 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by comitan
It is time for everyone to be thinking POSITIVE thoughts for his recovery......................

oladulce - 2-17-2010 at 03:20 PM

Roaming, I just read your story today and can't think of much else. Thank you for sharing your experience.

It upsets me to hear stories like your husband's (no matter what country they occur in) because the nurse in me wishes I could have been there to help him on his first ER visit.

The poor guy sounds miserable still. It's important for them to explain more about his "reaction" to the angiogram contrast. You'll want to know if he had an actual "allergic" reaction or are his current symptoms a result of the dye leaking from a vessel and irritating the brain tissue? The latter would cause symptoms very similar to his initial complaints of severe headache and nausea because blood and the dye are both irritants to brain tissue.

This is important information for you to know and to relay to future practitioners. If he had a true allergic reaction to the dye, they should pre-medicate him with antihistamines before an future dye studies, observe him carefully during the procedure, and have emergency equipment at the bedside. Or they may elect to do a Non-contrast study, if possible.

Your role as watchdog really is the best way you can help him while he's in the hospital, but I'm sure you're dog-tired. There is no excuse for them ignoring his alarming monitors, get copies of all the tests they perform, and especially the angiogram films when you go to Guadalara. If you don't understand the purpose of new medications or treatments, make them explain it to you until you're comfortable.

Positive thoughts are coming your way.

bajabass - 2-17-2010 at 03:26 PM

I wish your husband and yourself as well, make full recovery very soon RTB! He might not be ready yet, but laughter has gotten me through a couple rough medical problems with a better, brighter attitude! :light:

roamingthroughbaja - 2-17-2010 at 04:50 PM

Thanks for that advice, oladulce. I will try to find out. As far as I understand it was a reaction (which they said was not an allergy, as there were no anaphalactic (sp) symptoms, just chills, dizzyness and disorientation) to the contrast media. They are assuring me that the contrast media used for an MR angiogram is different, is not put in through the femoral artery, and will not cause another problem. I have decided to cross that bridge later and right now focus on getting him out of the hospital. I here the hospital in Guadalajara is really excellent. K-rico has also suggested Angeles Hospital in TJ. We are going to check out both options and I'll let you all know.

CaboRon - 2-17-2010 at 05:24 PM

Reaction to the dye used is not unusual ... Many times it presents as a burning sensation all the way up to a full body reaction... not a pleasant sensation at all.

Bajahowodd - 2-17-2010 at 05:39 PM

Ron. I know that such a loss is almost impossible to fathom by those who have not had such an experience. You have now worked yourself into a position where, while you will never want to forget that tragedy, there are still many loved ones who rely on you and from who you draw a great deal of strength and joy. In some respects, I personally feel like you didn't need to respond to someone akin to if Hannibal Lechter was a zombie. Look around. Who's winning?

[Edited on 2-18-2010 by Bajahowodd]

roamingthroughbaja - 2-17-2010 at 10:02 PM

I'd really appreciate it if you guys took this elsewhere. If anyone has some experience, advice, names, numbers or direction on good and bad health care in La Paz, I think there would be many people interested, including me. As it is, people will stop contributing to this thread if it continues on like this, and I for one, need the advice and support right now. So please, start this up on another thread for those Nomads who want to get into that kind of debate. Thanks

roamingthroughbaja - 2-18-2010 at 07:10 AM

Again, please take this stuff elsewhere. This isn't the place for this. I need help, advice and support from fellow Nomads and also to help anyone else by my experience.

josie - 2-18-2010 at 11:26 AM

So sorry about that - sometimes my Latina blood just boils with rude people but I will stifle it here. So back to much more important things, please give us an update as to how your husband is doing today?

longlegsinlapaz - 2-18-2010 at 03:50 PM

Mrs. RTB.....the truck wasn't there this AM when I went by. I know you have a lot on your mind, but if there is anything you need....you know I'm close. Hope Mr. RTB is starting to feel better & you can get him home fast!

roamingthroughbaja - 2-18-2010 at 09:56 PM

Hi everyone, what a day! We got my husband home from the hospital this afternoon. I have to thank our friends,
-who provided a more comfortable ride than our big diesel truck could provide
-supplied a wheel chair to get him from the ride into the house and through the next few days
-brought over a walker for when he is stronger
-and who gave us a cheque to help out!!
(All Mexicans....and people ask us why we live here!)

Thanks, too, for everyone who visited in the hospital, provided daily phone and email support, helped when we were lost in translation, provided extra pesos, love and advice, cleaned the house, did the laundry and walked the dogs. We couldn't have done it without you.

My husband spent a couple of hours in the afternoon actually sitting up in his wheelchair looking at the view and listening to his beloved Irish music...the longest he has been out of bed in 9 days.

We are not out of the woods yet, but I feel he will heal much faster in his own home.

Now for the Baja Nomad information part of this story. In all, Fidepaz was an excellent hospital. The nurses usually came right away when the call button was pushed, the place was extremely clean and well-maintained, the doctors were professional, personable and knowledgeable. They were also expensive...the bill on the way out was almost 100,000 pesos. I know that's a spit in the ocean compared to what this would cost in the US, but we are Canadians, and it's quite a shock. I would still, however, recommend this hospital over the Salvatierra hospital for reasons I stated before. When the new Salvatierra opens later in the year, it will be interesting to get feedback on its services, especially the emergency department, since that is what we foreigners should be most concerned about. One can surely find good health care in La Paz if you have time to do some research, but an emergency is a much different situation. Once we have gone through the Guadalajara experience, I'll post again to let you all know what that was like.

bajabass - 2-19-2010 at 10:20 AM

Very glad you got him home RTB! I am sure he feels better already! :bounce:

vandenberg - 2-19-2010 at 08:30 PM

Glad you got him home.
Hope the rest of his recovery will go without any more problems. Our thoughts are with you.
Ed and Barb.

fishingmako - 2-19-2010 at 08:49 PM

RTB, HOW MUCH WAS THAT IN US DOLLARS BY THE TIME YOU PAID ALL? WAS THERE ANY OTHER BREAKS? ARE WAS IT JUST STRAIGHT FORWARD.

I HOPE AND PRAY FOR YOUR HUSBAND THAT HE RECOVERS REAL SOON, I ALSO PRAY FOR YOU, WHAT A BEAUTIFUL PERSON YOU ARE TO HAVE THE STRENGTH AND ENDURANCE IT TAKES TO HOLD ALL THIS GLUED TOGETHER.

AND THROUGH SUCH A DIFFICULT TIME TO KEEP US ALL POSTED OF WHAT WAS GOING ON AND WHAT TO LOOK OUT FOR .

THANK YOU SO SO MUCH FOR YOUR INPUT.

BLESS YOU AND THE REST OF YOUR FAMILY.

docsmom - 2-20-2010 at 08:59 AM

So happy he's home.
Take care of each other.