BajaNomad - Lack of Tourists in Baja

Lack of Tourists in Baja

tripledigitken - 2-23-2010 at 09:48 AM

Reading this forum you'd think you would see lots of campers, trailers, RV's in Baja. Not the case.

In two days driving from Tijuana to San Ignacio we counted 8 campers, trucks pulling trailers, and/or motor homes traveling north. In the RV campgrounds we visited........

Los Olivos in San Quintin............3 RV's
Mario's in Guerrero Negro...........nada (going home there were 2)
Malarrimo................................4 RV's
Rice and Beans in San Ignacio...2 RV's
Serenidad RV ..........................nada
Santispac.................................6+-
El Requeson.............................12+-

In walking around the cities we visited we both commented on how few gringo tourists were there. Loreto had the most, and by that maybe a dozen walking around that we saw.

It was very strange, and obviously sad for the locals depending on the tourist dollars. :no:

It was a year ago when we made a similar trip to this, and it seems like there were less tourists this year.

The only hotel we made reservations in was Jardines. Never a problem getting a room. We booked a whale tour in San Ignacio on Saturday morning no problem. Kuyima was the outfitter we used and they only had 2 boats going out that morning! By the way thanks Capt Mike for the Kuyima referral. They run a first class operation at competitive rates, very nice people all, newish equipment with Honda powered panga's, restaurant and bathrooms are spotless. They served an excellent scallop lunch after the tour. I'll eventually post a report on our whale watching.

Ken

slimshady - 2-23-2010 at 10:21 AM

It is evident that the Baja Tourism industry has been hit by both the Cartel Crime news and the fact that many American and others can not afford to vacation like they once did.

shari - 2-23-2010 at 11:46 AM

i was at Ojo de LIebre yesterday...only 2 campers...but a big flyin group...seems lots more flyins these days and less campers. Hotel operators in GN said it was up a bit from last year though...although the big storm slowed things down but picking up again now.

The whale census revealed whales coming in a bit later this year so they will stay later as well so might have whales in GN till the end of march...maybe for semana santa even.

BAJA.DESERT.RAT - 2-23-2010 at 11:47 AM

Hola, last year when the swine flu scare cropped up, all the bad news about the drug cartels and also the economy, and possibly due to the infrastructure construction that really impacted the streets and parking in cabo san lucas.

once, after going to home depot, costco and walmart, which were not nearly as busy as in the past, we made a trek to Minerva's to restock some fishing supplies. there were no cruise ships in the bay in front of costco and i only saw about ten americans walking on the streets around the outside of Minerva's. a lot of the shopkeepers were outside their shops talking or just sitting outside their shops reading or just napping. In cabo ? unimagineable ! we didn't even get approached by any time share salespeople !!

it really is trickling down and is disastrous to the working class people.

after dropping a friend off at the airport at around 10 A.M., i only saw about five people at the airport excluding the airport workers. this was last year.

i have heard in cabo, a large number of restaurants have closed, hotels are shutting down wings, and taxi drivers are idle. lots of storefront lease signs as in california.

in los barriles, staff reductions at tio's and other businesses, less fishing groups and tour operators at the hotels, and....on and on.

my friends and family here are trying to have me stay home this year but it is safer in los barriles and surrounding areas than it is in los angeles and other parts of the U.S.A.

just as long as i can safely pass through the border towns ? after driving through san quintin, i really relax in my driving and again look forward to the nicest, warmest and caring people that keeps me coming back, year after enjoyable year.

TELL A FRIEND ! hmmm, maybe not ! just more for myself, friends and nomads to enjoy, how very selfish !

BIEN SALUD, DA RAT

Bajahowodd - 2-23-2010 at 12:14 PM

That's pleasantly surprising news that bookings are slightly up this year in GN.

Very difficult to equate tourism mid-peninsula with Los Cabos. Vast majority of Los Cabos visitors arrive by plane and have time shares. The upcoming spring break weeks will be very revealing for that area.

Have to wonder about the lack of RV traffic Ken mentions. Seems to me that mode of vacation has to be about the most economical. Wonder how it equates- Crime v. Economy. Anyone care to venture a guess?

k-rico - 2-23-2010 at 12:28 PM

Sounds like I'll be able to find a cherry camping site next week on Bahia Concepcion.

I've read that RVers are staying closer to home, state parks and such. No more pulling out home equity to fill the tank.

Bob and Susan - 2-23-2010 at 12:49 PM

feb 14th i sent some guests to guerrero negro for whale watching

followed shari's advice...

the town was full...
they finnaly found a "fleabag" for the night

the whale pangas were full

one guy had pity on them and added 4 extra on his boat

everyday the crowd changes

BajaGeoff - 2-23-2010 at 12:59 PM

This year has started off better than '08 and '09 for us, and considering how much heavy rain and bad weather we had last month that is significant. It does seem like a lot of people are starting to travel south again, so we are very optimistic for what 2010 holds....

shari - 2-23-2010 at 01:02 PM

wasnt the 14th presidents day weekend?? busiest of the year in GN then...Caracoles and Cowboy are filling up nightly these days too.

Barry A. - 2-23-2010 at 01:05 PM

I can just give my personal feelings on this matter------after 55 years of traveling in Baja---------

A conbination of "age" (72), bad news coming out of Mexico, the continuing development of the penninsula as well as increased expense and permit hassles, and the fact that out of my 8 friends that I have gone camping with in Baja over the many years NONE of them will go down anymore (and it has nothing to do with the economy). It is just not the same down there, and the allure has gone away. Very sad, but that is progress and change, and neither are what we looked for in Baja CA-----in fact it was the primitiveness and isolation that attracted my friends and I in the first place.

We now all (friends & family) travel about the W USA, and feel much more comfortable and secure, and the wives will come with us if we don't go south of the border.

It is just the way it is----------my personal & friends experience is that we feel much more secure in the USA (partially because we can legally arm ourselves when travelling by truck), and we like that.

I have pulled all my long-time investments out of Mexico--------IMO it is just too flaky down there, despite occasional big profits------now it's to volatile for me.

We leave it to you more adventurous guys and gals-----------and hope you enjoy it as much as we did.

Barry

tripledigitken - 2-23-2010 at 01:08 PM

That's good news! My experience whale watching at San Ignacio was Feb. 13th. We stayed at Malarrimo on the 18th plenty of rooms available in town at 4pm, only two other tables of guests at dinner around 6pm (one French family and two local women). When we left the next day they had 2 vans worth of Whale Watchers going out. I asked the Manager at Malarrimo how the business was and he said so so, and added "but the Whale season isn't very long". Same waitstaff that has been there for years.

Nomads go whale watching and support the local economy. We had our best Whale watching this year without even touching a Whale!

Ken

Quote:

Originally posted by Bob and Susan
feb 14th i sent some guests to guerrero negro for whale watching

followed shari's advice...

the town was full...
they finnaly found a "fleabag" for the night

the whale pangas were full

one guy had pity on them and added 4 extra on his boat

everyday the crowd changes

Bob and Susan - 2-23-2010 at 01:27 PM

dont bring your gun in the truck to california and think you're legal
________________________
A handgun carried in a glove compartment or under the seat of a vehicle is considered to be concealed.

A handgun placed in the trunk of an automobile, or locked in a container in the vehicle other than the utility or glove compartment or while in a locked container carried directly to or from a vehicle is deemed not to be "concealed."

A locked container means a fully enclosed secure container locked by a key lock or similar locking device.
________________________

arrowhead - 2-23-2010 at 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bob and Susan
dont bring your gun in the truck to california and think you're legal.

I think I remember that Barry said he was retired law enforcement. Most of them have a permit to carry. And in California, at least, a campsite is considered your residence and you can have a concealable weapon with you at the campsite. Without a carry permit, you would have to do as you mentioned, lock it up in the trunk or in a box as you drove around.

Barry A. - 2-23-2010 at 02:02 PM

Arrowhead is correct---------I have a permanent Fed. gun permit (retired Fed. LE officer), as well as a State permit issued by the Sheriff of my County of residence, good thru-out CA as far an I know.

The gun laws in this Country are so tangled and fouled up that I find them beyond comprehension, and frankly don't worry about them very much----------I am interested in protecting me, and my family and friends, bottom line.

I do not go to Canada anymore because of their very restrictive gun laws, tho I have never had any serious problems in Canada other than them "holding" my weapon at the Border until I returned to the USA and picked it up------very inconvenient if you want to leave Canada at a crossing other than your entrance point. :fire:

Barry

Donjulio - 2-23-2010 at 03:24 PM

Real estate sales in San Felipe are up. More this year so far than all of last year. Not bad considering it's only Feb.

Bajahowodd - 2-23-2010 at 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Donjulio
Real estate sales in San Felipe are up. More this year so far than all of last year. Not bad considering it's only Feb.

That must be encouraging. Would I be correct in assuming that prices have softened? Since things are still pretty bleak NOB, the only reason I could think of for an increase in buyers down there would be bargains.

jodiego - 2-23-2010 at 04:59 PM

From my travels early in the month, it's pretty clear to me that if there are waves, surfers could care less about drug cartels, shootings, kidnappings, hijackings, or any other sort of negative vibes that are keeping regular people from venturing south. I guess the down side is that surfers don't spend a whole lot of money when traveling south (gas, lodging, beer...and some grub)!

[Edited on 2-24-2010 by jodiego]

BajaErin - 2-23-2010 at 07:45 PM

Prices have gone down in San Felipe, quite a bit.

Our casita sale has been going on for almost a year and should finalize in next two weeks. Whew

We still have land investment, but are lucky to have gotten buyers for the casita.

Still plan on retiring there, because of the locals more than anything else.

Donjulio - 2-23-2010 at 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajahowodd

Quote:

Originally posted by Donjulio
Real estate sales in San Felipe are up. More this year so far than all of last year. Not bad considering it's only Feb.

Yeah you would be correct. 1800 sq ft 3 bedroom - new, never lived in with rooftop deck built in bar, bbq, sink etc. just sold for $165,000 in a development with pool, bar, storefronts, etc

Another in there sold for $135,000. Probably 40% less than asking price would have been 2 years ago. I have 3rd row lots less than 100 yds to the beach with utilities down to $45,000 - yeah...its soft.

torch - 2-24-2010 at 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by jodiego
From my travels early in the month, it's pretty clear to me that if there are waves, surfers could care less about drug cartels, shootings, kidnappings, hijackings, or any other sort of negative vibes that are keeping regular people from venturing south. I guess the down side is that surfers don't spend a whole lot of money when traveling south (gas, lodging, beer...and some grub)!

[Edited on 2-24-2010 by jodiego]

surfers are treated alot better now in mex because we still go and provide a little boost for the locals. I think 5 years ago surfers were treated or at least looked upon differently from the locals.

ElFaro - 2-24-2010 at 08:56 AM

My wife and I spent last week at Estero Beach Hotel in Ensenada...virtually empty. They have a "promotional" going right now...Maya rooms for $58/nite. The RV park was deserted. There were a few "one-nite" stop overs. One RV couple who had been there for the last 4 months told us they were the only ones in the RV park most of the time. A number of "permanent" residences are up for sale at Estero offered by the resort owners. Apparently the individual gringo owners couldn't sell them and simply let the resort owners "take back" the lot and house. The restaurant is closed now one day a week every Tuesday. We returned through Tecate on Friday around 4pm and believe it or not there were only THREE cars in front of us at the gates!! - a 5 minute wait! Normally on Fri. nites in the past there would be a line of cars of Mexicans heading north to party and have fun but not these days.

Woooosh - 2-24-2010 at 09:18 AM

I don't know what shops, nightclubs and restaurants tourists will be returning to in Rosarito once they do decide to return. Most youth-oriented places are closed or have reduced their hours- except for the hope of some weekend business. Of course most businesses shuttering after dark a few months back due to increased robberies didn't help change the crime perception from the merchants perspective.

IMHO the biggest obstacle Rosarito can't recover from in the near future is the passport requirement.

Rosarito is a young peoples spring break party place- or at least that's the demographic they built the tourist zone around. When the college Frats and social groups make their plans for this spring break- it only takes ONE person without a passport to kill the Rosarito option. I'll bet domestic destinations like South Padre Island will be rocking- instead of Rosarito. Maybe a recover next year- or when the people who paid for the lions' share of tourist marketing return from Chula Vista and re-open their clubs.

[Edited on 2-24-2010 by Woooosh]

torch - 2-24-2010 at 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ElFaro
My wife and I spent last week at Estero Beach Hotel in Ensenada...virtually empty. They have a "promotional" going right now...Maya rooms for $58/nite. The RV park was deserted. There were a few "one-nite" stop overs. One RV couple who had been there for the last 4 months told us they were the only ones in the RV park most of the time. A number of "permanent" residences are up for sale at Estero offered by the resort owners. Apparently the individual gringo owners couldn't sell them and simply let the resort owners "take back" the lot and house. The restaurant is closed now one day a week every Tuesday. We returned through Tecate on Friday around 4pm and believe it or not there were only THREE cars in front of us at the gates!! - a 5 minute wait! Normally on Fri. nites in the past there would be a line of cars of Mexicans heading north to party and have fun but not these days.

I spent new years eve at Corona beach 3 or so properties to the north (the local party was great). we checked out estero (very nice) which was not busy at all. We loved the margs. and the setting. By the way did you see EL FARO beach?

Yeah

Dave - 2-24-2010 at 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by torch
surfers are treated alot better now in mex because we still go and provide a little boost for the locals. I think 5 years ago surfers were treated or at least looked upon differently from the locals.

When you collectively count spending on Bologna, Bimbo bread and Mayo it starts to really add up.

DENNIS - 2-24-2010 at 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by torch
By the way did you see EL FARO beach?

What happened to it?

torch - 2-24-2010 at 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by torch
By the way did you see EL FARO beach?

What happened to it?

I was just making a play on the name since his user name is Elfaro and El Faro beach is next door to Estero beach

Bajahowodd - 2-24-2010 at 01:22 PM

OK. Now we see the light! :biggrin:

DENNIS - 2-24-2010 at 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by torch
[
I was just making a play on the name since his user name is Elfaro and El Faro beach is next door to Estero beach

I have trouble paying attention. :lol:

alafrontera - 2-24-2010 at 03:38 PM

I was in San Felipe for Valentine's day / presidents day weekend, pretty dead as everyone reports. Went to check out Pete's Camp just to see it, no campers at all. No rv's, trailers etc on the highway between Mexicali and Puertecitos, not one and it was a holiday weekend !

Barry made a good point, it does seem that the bulk of the baja capmers over the years have been retiree's who have been going for many years. Baja has changed and it doesn't have the same appeal anymore, plus they are older and perhaps less adventurous than before. Almost everyplace I knew and enjoyed 30 years ago is (in my opinion) a pit now and I don't go back. So it's going to take a whole new generation of Baja enthusists who are fascinated by the way it is now to revive it. People like myself who have no notion of what is was 20 years ago.

And I have good reason to go too ! Barry's comments also led me to envision long caravans of 40 foot motorhomes precariously driven by gun toting octogenarians crusing the California highways frequently checking their maps between "senior moments". I think I feel safer in Mexico now

David K - 2-24-2010 at 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by alafrontera
I was in San Felipe for Valentine's day / presidents day weekend, pretty dead as everyone reports. Went to check out Pete's Camp just to see it, no campers at all. No rv's, trailers etc on the highway between Mexicali and Puertecitos, not one and it was a holiday weekend !

Barry made a good point, it does seem that the bulk of the baja capmers over the years have been retiree's who have been going for many years. Baja has changed and it doesn't have the same appeal anymore, plus they are older and perhaps less adventurous than before. Almost everyplace I knew and enjoyed 30 years ago is (in my opinion) a pit now and I don't go back. So it's going to take a whole new generation of Baja enthusists who are fascinated by the way it is now to revive it. People like myself who have no notion of what is was 20 years ago.

And I have good reason to go too ! Barry's comments also led me to envision long caravans of 40 foot motorhomes precariously driven by gun toting octogenarians crusing the California highways frequently checking their maps between "senior moments". I think I feel safer in Mexico now

I hope that the Mexicans will learn that LESS IS BEST for many of Baja campers!

If we wanted all the services and entertainment found at a KOA, then we wouldn't go through the difficulties of Mexico travel/ border crossing/ fear...

We want natural, undeveloped or lightly developed places to stay... like palapas or shade trees to make it nice... showers and toilets, no more... even less.

Places like Nuevo Mazatlan, Campo Beluga, El Requeson, etc, are where we would go. When I first went to Baja in the 60's and 70's that was the way it was... and campgrounds south of San Felipe were busy.

Pete's Camp or even Percebu has been a zoo during holidays in recent past years... But, as you said... even they are lacking... The upcoming San Felipe 250 race on March 13 will be their big event to have business... maybe the 500 and 1000 if it goes near San Felipe.

Not much else will help... It just isn't worth it. Only if Baja is DIFFERENT than the United States can it attract campers again, like it has for generations... different in that there is rustic camping, good fishing, swimming, recreation (beach and desert off road fun), no hassels, no crime, no fees... just freedom to enjoy one's vacationaway from civilization.

Nuevo Mazatlan (Agua de Chale) in 1967:

Bajahowodd - 2-24-2010 at 04:47 PM

Geez. And campers spend how much money there? People are out of work. Anyone who smugly feels that an empty Baja is better should start a fund to buy food for the hungry down there.

tripledigitken - 2-24-2010 at 05:04 PM

Visitors to Baja want different services catering to their individual needs. Even among Nomads we all differ in how we enjoy our time in Baja. Simpler isn't necessarily what alot of us want.

Look at the success of Baja Cactus and Jardines, offering amentities not usually found in Baja at the $35-$45 price point. In fact many of the "budget" motels now offer wifi and coffee makers, heaters, TV's are becoming the norm in the less than $50 properties. Campers as they age turn to "Truck/Campers", fifth wheels, etc. and are demanding electrical hook-up, drinking water, etc. at campgrounds.

Baja does and will attract all types from those that dry camp to those that frequent the all inclusive properties in Cabo.

When, and I believe it will, the violence on the border subsides
people will start coming back to Baja including new first time visitors.

disclaimer: I have been accused of being an irrational optimist by a few members here. :smug:

DENNIS - 2-24-2010 at 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by tripledigitken
When, and I believe it will, the violence on the border subsides
people will start coming back to Baja including new first time visitors.

Other things will have to see some adjustments as well. The border and the economy. It just ain't what it used to be.

tripledigitken - 2-24-2010 at 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by tripledigitken
When, and I believe it will, the violence on the border subsides
people will start coming back to Baja including new first time visitors.

Other things will have to see some adjustments as well. The border and the economy. It just ain't what it used to be.

read my disclaimer. :lol:

You can do your part, get Sharkey's to have $1 bacon wrapped hotdogs with $1 pacifico's on Saturday afternoons.

DENNIS - 2-24-2010 at 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by tripledigitken
You can do your part, get Sharkey's to have $1 bacon wrapped hotdogs with $1 pacifico's on Saturday afternoons.

I think the beers are always 15 Ps. I'll work on the BWHD idea. Sounds good. :light:

Donjulio - 2-24-2010 at 05:37 PM

Big drug bust at Playa de Oro also. Just came back from town an hour ago. Beachcomber has a for sale sign on it. V Lounge has a for sale sign on it. One of my friends GF's is a stripper. She made $11 Saturday night. Several landmark restaurants, one open since the 60's have closed. Tough times right now.

And Bajahowodd - we actually have a food bank here which is currently serving about 500 families but we need more food/money to serve more. There is easily a need to bump it up to 1500. If anyone has a church group, company or friends with money that want to contribute they could sure use it. I was just at the food bank today and heard that the San Diego food bank is feeding 365,000 people a week.

Tough everywhere right now.

The Catholic church is feeding 60 a day in their soup kitchen 5 days a week but they are out of food and need help. Locals are struggling bad.

David K - 2-24-2010 at 05:48 PM

People still need to get away... and with us Americans being poorer now. camping is a method to treat the ills of 'civilization'!

Of course there are all kinds of Baja travelers... and there is Cabo San Lucas for them!

It is just that any Mexican who was able, thought that making his part of Baja into another 'Cabo', was the answer to prosperity... Look at Loreto Bay and other such fiascos.

It is either cater to the kind of business that will keep going to Baja, no matter what...or just ruin places with empty developments.

Baja Cactus is an awesome example of keeping things within budget, yet making it a nice experience... Many places require a 2 day or more drive and El Rosario is at the end of a day's drive for many of us... for $35 you get a beautiful, large room... Otherwise, it is set up a camp somewhere and pack it back up the next morning to continue on.

I would rather pay $35-$40 and not have to unpack my truck until I get to my camping destination.

longlegsinlapaz - 2-24-2010 at 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by tripledigitken
Visitors to Baja want different services catering to their individual needs. Even among Nomads we all differ in how we enjoy our time in Baja. Simpler isn't necessarily what alot of us want.

Look at the success of Baja Cactus and Jardines, offering amentities not usually found in Baja at the $35-$45 price point. In fact many of the "budget" motels now offer wifi and coffee makers, heaters, TV's are becoming the norm in the less than $50 properties. Campers as they age turn to "Truck/Campers", fifth wheels, etc. and are demanding electrical hook-up, drinking water, etc. at campgrounds.

Baja does and will attract all types from those that dry camp to those that frequent the all inclusive properties in Cabo.

When, and I believe it will, the violence on the border subsides
people will start coming back to Baja including new first time visitors.

disclaimer: I have been accused of being an irrational optimist by a few members here. :smug:

tripledigitken, very well stated....a refreshingly realistic approach! :bounce:

I'd never call you Pollyanna! :no:

805gregg - 2-24-2010 at 06:44 PM

I'm just glad I got to enjoy it in the 60's, the newer version is not nearly as nice.

desertcpl - 2-24-2010 at 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by 805gregg
I'm just glad I got to enjoy it in the 60's, the newer version is not nearly as nice.

DITTO

Udo - 2-24-2010 at 07:16 PM

The 60's...

Fish tacos were 8 for a buck in San Felipe!

josie - 2-24-2010 at 07:30 PM

I think the bad economy and the passport requirement have as much impact as the reports of violence. Lots of vacation destinations around the globe are seeing less tourism and until the economy improves I don't think that will change. A girlfriend has a couple of really nice vacation condos she rents on Maui. Normally she is already 50%+ booked up for the spring/summer by now but told me they are both wide open except for a couple of dates.

gnukid - 2-24-2010 at 08:22 PM

All the camps I visit are packed in BCS, more than ever, sailors, kitesurfers, surfers and windsurfers don't seem to know anything about the bad economy. In fact, we have the distinct impression that due to not paying attention, everything is really awesome. If you have any interest in actually doing something, it seems now is a great time to go! ... watching videos of diving now.

JESSE - 2-24-2010 at 09:23 PM

Murders in northern baja are down 70% from last year. Now that Teo's gang is out, things will get back to normal. My friends and family in TJ tell me the city feels calm for the first time in years.

Woooosh - 2-24-2010 at 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JESSE
Murders in northern baja are down 70% from last year. Now that Teo's gang is out, things will get back to normal. My friends and family in TJ tell me the city feels calm for the first time in years.

The people are getting back outdoors more. It'll be a while before they relax IMHO. No one who works for a living has any feeling of economic recovery yet- on either side. But just unlocking your door and walking the dog around the block in morning is a start.

My cousin used to make rustic woods doors in Rosarito- now he works at the swap meet in TJ. Not good for his family, him or his self esteem. We can't lose the local craftsman and trades (Rosarito's Blvd Popotla was getting a decent artist community too) or everything in Mexico will be made in China.

David K - 2-25-2010 at 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by udowinkler
The 60's...

Fish tacos were 8 for a buck in San Felipe!

Okay... but I DO remember paying 25 cents for a fish taco in 1978! :light:

Of course it was impossible to eat just one!

Cyanide41 - 2-25-2010 at 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by udowinkler
The 60's...

Fish tacos were 8 for a buck in San Felipe!

Didn't beer come in oil cans then too?

Barry A. - 2-25-2010 at 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by udowinkler
The 60's...

Fish tacos were 8 for a buck in San Felipe!

In the '50's Carta Blanca was .09 cents a bottle in Guaymas.

------and diesel was .11 cents a gallon in Mexicali in the late '70's.

:tumble:

Barry

k-rico - 2-25-2010 at 02:11 PM

Quote:

Good news!!!

DianaT - 2-25-2010 at 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajahowodd
Geez. And campers spend how much money there? People are out of work. Anyone who smugly feels that an empty Baja is better should start a fund to buy food for the hungry down there.

How very true. I well imagine that many of those smug campers spend next to NOTHING in Baja. They stock up with food, drinks, fill up with gas and then go spend a couple of days somewhere south of San Felipe. Not only do they spend nothing to help the economy, they are a liability as there is more wear and tear on the roads.

Lamenting the past is a worthless past time and really says nothing about what the Mexicans want. It is like the road to Bahia Asuncion. We have met a lot of locals and there is only one who is not looking forward to all pavement and hopes the Vizcaino Road will be fixed.

Does anyone think they want to go back to the days where there were tons of lobster and abalone here, but it took three days on a mule to get to the fish camps? Or do they want to go back to when there was no electricity, or piped water and as a friend says, the town was nothing but pulgas y coyotes?

DK´s idea of less is best really discounts the people here. I guess it would still be quaint if they all were still riding burros and fishing in heavy wooden boats with oars.

Baja is still beautiful and there is more and more happening to protect parts of the environment which is good. But it is really up to the Mexicans to decide in which direction they want to move, and I doubt it will be turning the clock back.

Again, I think it is a difference between those who want to ¨save¨Baja as their own personal playground and those who live here at least part time and interact with the people more.

And, while we do not care for Los Cabos, it is as much Baja as is San Roque, or Shell Island. It is just different and some people love it---Mexicans and Gringos alike.

The fear created by the US press---all of the press including Faux News really hurts tourism, and of course the flood this year didn´t help.

Lots of reasons, perhaps, but the lamenting for the past and the attempt to tell Mexico what is best really is disrespectful to the Mexican people.

David K - 2-25-2010 at 02:28 PM

Boy, the 60's were hard on you, huh Diane?

I am one of the biggest boosters for Baja tourism on the Internet... I encourage people to visit Baja...

I help people in Baja with their tourist oriented businesses... Maybe you have heard of Juan and Shari of a little known place called Bahia Asuncion? There was NOTHING on Asuncion, from Asuncion, until Shari got on line... and after several emails between her and I, I encouraged her to post more about it on Nomad and I made a web site for her photos... the rest... is history.

Perhaps you have heard of Baja Cactus and other businesses in El Rosario (Tacos Mision, Mama Espinoza's, Turista Motel, Baja's Best...)?

Maybe, just maybe you will see Mulege, and visit El Patron, Playa Frambes, etc.). In Loreto McLuLu's, CocoCabañas motel, etc....

Keri's Pyramid Resort has always received my full support and help promotong her book events...

My travel logs take people to see places like Mike's Sky Rancho, Alfonsina's, Coco's Corner, the mission sites, rock art sites, El Camino Real, ...

Just so funny you use me to describe people who don't give anything back to Baja, for the enjoyment they receive...

[Edited on 2-25-2010 by David K]

irenemm - 2-25-2010 at 02:30 PM

We had a small caravan from Germany about 2 weeks ago. they will be here again on the 3rd. On e of the guest asked how usiness was. I told him it is down 98%. We had 2 caravans this year his and 1 from fantasy. In years past we would have 20 in a month and with 18 to 23 riggs. anyway the man could not understand why no one was coming I told him the bad rap the news puts out. that san diego has nothing but bad thing to say about Baja. I grew up i Los Angeles and feel safe here. He said he has travel all over the world and the things that happen here are only between cartel and cops. Most countries the crime is targeted to the tourist. He said in Italy, France and many parts of Europe they use radios to call each other to highjack you and rob you even at the stop lights. He said that he does not believe the economy of the States for the motorhome people is as bad as it says. If you go to Az. you can see 50,000 of them sitting next to each other with nothing there. so they have money to get to Az. so they have money to come here.
Now if we could get more of him talking to the press maybe people would come back.

rts551 - 2-25-2010 at 02:39 PM

I guess Irene needs to hire the poster boy of Baja tourism since he does so much. Besides, he needs the work.

irenemm - 2-25-2010 at 02:41 PM

rts551
who is the poster boy?

You First!

Bajahowodd - 2-25-2010 at 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by rts551
I guess Irene needs to hire the poster boy of Baja tourism since he does so much. Besides, he needs the work.

rts551 - 2-25-2010 at 02:52 PM

Irene. look at how much he does for tourism.

Quote:

Originally posted by David K
Boy, the 60's were hard on you, huh Diane?

I am one of the biggest boosters for Baja tourism on the Internet... I encourage people to visit Baja...

I help people in Baja with their tourist oriented businesses... Maybe you have heard of Juan and Shari of a little known place called Bahia Asuncion? There was NOTHING on Asuncion, from Asuncion, until Shari got on line... and after several emails between her and I, I encouraged her to post more about it on Nomad and I made a web site for her photos... the rest... is history.

Perhaps you have heard of Baja Cactus and other businesses in El Rosario (Tacos Mision, Mama Espinoza's, Turista Motel, Baja's Best...)?

Maybe, just maybe you will see Mulege, and visit El Patron, Playa Frambes, etc.). In Loreto McLuLu's, CocoCabañas motel, etc....

Keri's Pyramid Resort has always received my full support and help promotong her book events...

My travel logs take people to see places like Mike's Sky Rancho, Alfonsina's, Coco's Corner, the mission sites, rock art sites, El Camino Real, ...

Just so funny you use me to describe people who don't give anything back to Baja, for the enjoyment they receive...

[Edited on 2-25-2010 by David K]

David K - 2-25-2010 at 02:53 PM

It would be great if I did get paid for all my work promoting Baja travel... but, I do it for the love of Baja and the people of Baja and the Baja Nomads who know how to be nice to their fellow Nomads. :light:

David K - 2-25-2010 at 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by rts551
Irene. look at how much he does for tourism.

Yup, and if you check the links I provide... it is all there.

Now, the goal is to get America working again so we can afford to go back to Baja more!

Oh Puleeze

Dave - 2-25-2010 at 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DianaT

Quote:

Now spending money has become a tourist responsibility?

wessongroup - 2-25-2010 at 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave

Quote:

Originally posted by DianaT

Quote:

Now spending money has become a tourist responsibility?

If You Ain't Got The Do-Re-Mi.. it does ....

k-rico - 2-25-2010 at 03:23 PM

I bet for every one person not going to Baja because of the economy there 100 people not going because of the violence.

I have several friends who are doing just fine moneywise that used to go to Baja that no longer go because of the violence.

tripledigitken - 2-25-2010 at 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by k-rico
I bet for every one person not going to Baja because of the economy there 100 people not going because of the violence.

I have several friends who are doing just fine moneywise that used to go to Baja that no longer go because of the violence.

I agree 100%. Most of the tourists I see in towns, and in RV's, (not the ones tent camping), are in the baby boomer category or even older. A lot of these people are in place to retire, have retirement budgets, and are going elsewhere primarily because of the crime issues at the border. This by no means applies to everyone!!!!!!!

Ken

Bajahowodd - 2-25-2010 at 04:04 PM

Ah, yes. It is almost a fact of life than when people grow older, they become more conservative in many ways. Nomad Barry A made a very compelling statement about this stuff on another thread. Just wondering if Baja somehow shot itself in the foot by promoting the spring break type, nutzo bar/party activities to the younger generation. Especially since so many of those folks don't even have passports.

abreojos - 2-25-2010 at 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by David K
I do it for the love of Baja and the people of Baja and the Baja Nomads who know how to be nice to their fellow Nomads. :light:

I agree Dave. All your post are appreciated here.

arrowhead - 2-25-2010 at 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by irenemm
He said that he does not believe the economy of the States for the motorhome people is as bad as it says. If you go to Az. you can see 50,000 of them sitting next to each other with nothing there. so they have money to get to Az. so they have money to come here.

Your German customer is not tuned-in to what is happening. In the winter in the Northeast, upper mid-West and Canada, it costs $3,000 just to heat the home. RV'ing to AZ is not to spend money, it is to SAVE money. They lock up the house and turn off the heat. Not to mention the savings on arthritis medicine.
:rolleyes:

TMW - 2-25-2010 at 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bob and Susan
dont bring your gun in the truck to california and think you're legal
________________________
A handgun carried in a glove compartment or under the seat of a vehicle is considered to be concealed.

A handgun placed in the trunk of an automobile, or locked in a container in the vehicle other than the utility or glove compartment or while in a locked container carried directly to or from a vehicle is deemed not to be "concealed."

A locked container means a fully enclosed secure container locked by a key lock or similar locking device.
________________________

The difference is that whether or not a handgun is registered or put away properly or not in the US is only a fine and probably a warning if a first offense and your not going to prison like in Mexico. I can put my rifle and shotgun in my PU back window in CA and bet no cop will stop me. No so in Mexico. But I will still go to Baja without a gun.

josie - 2-26-2010 at 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by TW
I can put my rifle and shotgun in my PU back window in CA and bet no cop will stop me.

That may be true down where you live in Bakersfield. Up here in the Bay Area it will probably get you pulled over.

ArvadaGeorge - 2-26-2010 at 01:08 PM

It’s not just the economy, the crime or border hassles. It’s all of them. We used to go to Baja with big groups camp on the beach, ride motorcycles and atv’s ect. ect. Some years there were 30+ people.
We Stayed at Pete’s many years until the lack of close riding, the partying and thefts got to us. Then we went south of San Felipe and camped several years 2 to 3 weeks at a time..
This last year no one wanted to go so my wife and I just did a dual sport ride by ourselves to Mulege and back.
Several of our friends camped and road in the California dunes instead of Baja. On our way down to Baja and on the drive back we saw lots of RV’s with big trailers and lots of sand toys; but not in Baja they stayed in California. Several said lots less hassle safer and a lot cheaper
It’s hard to find RV Camping in San Felipe for under $20.00 a night and most of the time they have little to offer. Cold showers(if any) dirty toilets, no electricity, no water and no security. Most of the camps try to start out at $35.00 to $40.00 a night. Compare it to a Colorado National forest Camp ground at $10.00/$20.00 with clean bath rooms, water ,wonderful views and great riding --the Baja camp grounds come up short.
Other places that want you business make it attractive. Offering deals, services and protection. Baja business’s don’t get it –if thing are slow they raise the price???? If they want you to come back they should make it nice for you.
San Felipe hasn’t had the violent crime but it has had terrible problems with theft you can’t leave anything out a night.---which is real hard for campers. When you get stuff ripped off all the camp ground does is shrug their shoulders –when there are thieves driving thru most nights looking for stuff to take. Closed gates at night and clean bathrooms would go a long way in making my wife happier.
I still go to Baja ;but I’m am more careful where we camp especially with my wife and grandkids.
In fact I’m leaving for a 12 day guys M/C ride tomorrow --I hope Bill’s rock trail is kind to us.

DENNIS - 2-26-2010 at 01:31 PM

Seems that a lot of people who used to be tourists now live here. That never fits into the equation for some reason.

And what's wrong with saving money?

Road Tax on gasolene pays for deterioration of the roads. Supposed to anyway.

If tourism isn't working for Mexico, they should drop their prices. People will flood across the border.
Mexico has to rebuild from the bottom...not where they left off.

I didn't read George's post above before posting this. I should have. Sorry George.

[Edited on 2-26-2010 by DENNIS]

Woooosh - 2-26-2010 at 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS
Seems that a lot of people who used to be tourists now live here. That never fits into the equation for some reason.

And what's wrong with saving money?

Road Tax on gasolene pays for deterioration of the roads. Supposed to anyway.

If tourism isn't working for Mexico, they should drop their prices. People will flood across the border.
Mexico has to rebuild from the bottom...not where they left off.

I didn't read George's post above before posting this. I should have. Sorry George.

[Edited on 2-26-2010 by DENNIS]

Everyone basically has an automatic 30% discount with the peso now being close to 13:1. That didn't help tourism so far and I haven't seen anyone try that angle to promote tourism.

DENNIS - 2-26-2010 at 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Woooosh
Everyone basically has an automatic 30% discount with the peso now being close to 13:1. That didn't help tourism so far and I haven't seen anyone try that angle to promote tourism.

It's too inconsistant to advertise it as a universal savings. In tourist areas, lots of things are priced in dollars so it turns into a 30% raise in profit to the purveyor.
Imported items will increase. They have to or the seller losses money.

Beer time. SALUD

Pompano - 2-26-2010 at 02:05 PM

Per the original theme on the lack of tourists in Baja...there are NO lack of camping rigs in the Bay of Conception.

Perla, Requeson, Coyote, Cocos, and Santispac doing a very brisk business. Maybe one beach palapa empty at Cocos yesterday when I went careening by on my way to turn in my empties.

Bajahowodd - 2-26-2010 at 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pompano
Per the original theme on the lack of tourists in Baja...there are NO lack of camping rigs in the Bay of Conception.

Perla, Requeson, Coyote, Cocos, and Santispac doing a very brisk business. Maybe one beach palapa empty at Cocos yesterday when I went careening by on my way to turn in my empties.

Almost makes me wonder how they all got there. Seems like so many recent reports talk about how empty the highway is. :?:

DENNIS - 2-26-2010 at 02:24 PM

Quote:

Well...there ya go. Who's doing the census on this issue anyway, the hoarhouse owners on Revo Avenue?
I haven't noticed any drop in traffic at the borders. It just gets heavier. There's tourists. They're just doing different things.

Bob and Susan - 2-26-2010 at 02:40 PM

there we go...

sharktooth - 2-26-2010 at 03:00 PM

I was just in Baja for over 2 weeks - and it was a ghost town.

Only had to share my whale watching panga in Guerrero Negro with 3 other people (all in the same party) - and did not have to make reservations - and it was perfect weather conditions - more whale petting for me!

Bahia Concepcion was not crowded at all - Santispac had maybe 20 campers (parties) tops, and that is a huge park. I stayed at Requeson, and there were only about 6 other parties there. Daggets in Bahia Los Angeles only had 5 other parties....Bahia Concepcion was the most crowded area before reaching Cabo areas. The old La Pinta Hotel in San Quintin - under a different name now - did not have 1 single tenant stay the night we drove through - we camped at Gypsies (which is actually closed, but you can park for free - don't suggets it though cause military is all over at night trying to catch drug runners in this area!)

Every vendor I spoke with said tourist traffic is down well over 50% compared to a few years ago.

That was my experience - I kept commenting on how there were almost zero US or Canadian plates on the highway.

k-rico - 2-26-2010 at 03:33 PM

"Every vendor I spoke with said tourist traffic is down well over 50% compared to a few years ago."

Everybody compares everything to the bubble economy of days past when people were using unreal home equity like an ATM account and the corner bank would have given my dog a home loan. "Hey, our house appreciated 50% yesterday, let's go buy a SUV and some granite kitchen counter tops."

The real question is what is it like compared to 10 years ago. Oops, that was a different bubble.

Bubbles, we need bubbles. The Mexicans need bubbles too. Bubbles are fun. Where are the bubbles?

Anyway, I'm headed south, hope it's empty for my own selfish reasons.

irenemm - 2-26-2010 at 03:50 PM

compared to 10 years ago it is down about 80%.
even the people that have permanent trailers with us have not been down in 2 years. they are affaired. they read L.A. Times and watch L.A. news and that puts them off. these people have had trailers parked here for 20 years or more. all our families used to come down. nope not even the ones that are from Mexico will come down.
I think this week fox new local l.a. had stuff about baja as they did last week. all about the cartel and how dangerous it is go to baja.
it is gonna take a few years at least.

Bajahowodd - 2-26-2010 at 03:56 PM

Rico- I have to go back to the main issue here. That's the partying day-trippers. The passport thing has thrown a monkey wrench into that. Bubbles really don't matter that much when just a few years ago, the "kids" could hop on the trolley, or drive down to the border parking lots and let all hell break loosed for the evening. Our friend Woooosh mentioned that the US customs folks are still letting people come back with photo ID. But, if I was a teen/ young adult, knowing the official requirement, I would have to think twice about trying to get back across the border with nothing more than my drivers license and a buzz on.

k-rico - 2-26-2010 at 04:18 PM

It has been a perfect storm, drug wars, detached heads, acid baths, home prices going up and then down like an ICBM, a major recession, tighter border crossing requirements and what else, oh yeah, high gasoline prices.

We're doomed.

Beer and ice, I assume that's still there in BCS. If so, I'll be OK.

wessongroup - 2-26-2010 at 04:20 PM

Thanks I needed that rico... and, my refrigerator is working now...

wessongroup - 2-26-2010 at 04:31 PM

Ditto's

Bajahowodd - 2-26-2010 at 04:35 PM

As I have read the posts here, it has become clear (at least to me) that there are multiple issues being discussed. First, there's the traditional border-crossing partying gang that will weekend anywhere from TJ to Ensenada. And there are the hard-scrabble veterans of highway one who may venture down as far as they desire. I'm thinking that the lack of tourism from TJ through Rosarito, to Ensenada is heavily impacted by the drug wars. On the other hand, any drop off in tourism farther South, is probably more related to the US and world economy.

k-rico - 2-26-2010 at 04:45 PM

But there are many people who paint Mexico with a broad brush and don't differentiate from place to place. I think the violence play the major role in the decrease of folks driving into Mexico for road trips. The economy is probably a bigger factor with the fly-ins who stay at resorts.

As far as the teeny boppers who walk across to TJ to get drunk, the passport requirement is a big factor, but who cares, good riddance, it was a bad scene anyway. Kids getting drunk in Mex and then getting on the freeways to go home, not good.

wessongroup - 2-26-2010 at 05:07 PM

Just a guess, rico, on the teeny boppers... could be that momy and daddy don't have the same income they did ... 2 years ago... and I agree, what kind of "industry" is that to build a Country on...

Some amount of fly-ins would I think be from a different crowd that the folks that "drive" and "camp".. a different segmentation of the "service market"...

Seems folks want and/or demand a lot more than back it he "day"... you were lucky if you found someone "with" electricity... just was that much more different back 40-50 years ago.. you really didn't expect anything from anyone.. you always could hope for help in a "pinch", if someone came by, but most of the time.. you did it yourself, all of it.... you were to some degree on your own.. carry your own water.. food.. no ice ... and most of the time, nothing but the country around you..

Now, clean showers :lol:

insure my safety :lol:

and by the way, I want 3G wireles.. and a LCD TV.. and.. :lol:

Not an easy task to take care of all the wants of how many.... I don't really know... have really no idea on that one.. as a percentage of the population in Baja... would be nice to know the number..

Well that is my 2 cents .... for now...

[Edited on 2-27-2010 by wessongroup]

[Edited on 2-27-2010 by wessongroup]

Bajahowodd - 2-26-2010 at 05:16 PM

On one hand, as a wastrel of yore, even though I have children, I have always figured that they need to experience and determine what life is about. Hence, especially given the trolley connection, I am not and have not been opposed to the idea that youngsters need to blow off steam. And without giving away secrets, I am aware that my friend k-rico grew up in a state that had an 18 year old drinking law. However, as far as TJ tourism is concerned, historically, the convention business in San Diego always seemed to include junkets to Baja. No Mo. That was big bucks for our friends in TJ.

Woooosh - 2-26-2010 at 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajahowodd
On one hand, as a wastrel of yore, even though I have children, I have always figured that they need to experience and determine what life is about. Hence, especially given the trolley connection, I am not and have not been opposed to the idea that youngsters need to blow off steam. And without giving away secrets, I am aware that my friend k-rico grew up in a state that had an 18 year old drinking law. However, as far as TJ tourism is concerned, historically, the convention business in San Diego always seemed to include junkets to Baja. No Mo. That was big bucks for our friends in TJ.

Yup, part of the tourism charm of TJ-past for me and my friends was that it was always a little dangerous and you felt a little "naughty" just being there. TJ and Rosarito started getting its party reputation during the prohibition with the casinos down here. right?

Most people spend whatever amount they make. Some spend more. Few save enough. When people says it's a bad year and use their "same store sales" from the previous year, it's the same thing. They've already bought the ATV for the kids, or added inventory for their shop. You're right- it's sour grapes though.

DENNIS - 2-26-2010 at 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Woooosh
the tourism charm

What would that be?

805gregg - 2-26-2010 at 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Barry A.
I can just give my personal feelings on this matter------after 55 years of traveling in Baja---------

A conbination of "age" (72), bad news coming out of Mexico, the continuing development of the penninsula as well as increased expense and permit hassles, and the fact that out of my 8 friends that I have gone camping with in Baja over the many years NONE of them will go down anymore (and it has nothing to do with the economy). It is just not the same down there, and the allure has gone away. Very sad, but that is progress and change, and neither are what we looked for in Baja CA-----in fact it was the primitiveness and isolation that attracted my friends and I in the first place.

We now all (friends & family) travel about the W USA, and feel much more comfortable and secure, and the wives will come with us if we don't go south of the border.

It is just the way it is----------my personal & friends experience is that we feel much more secure in the USA (partially because we can legally arm ourselves when travelling by truck), and we like that.

I have pulled all my long-time investments out of Mexico--------IMO it is just too flaky down there, despite occasional big profits------now it's to volatile for me.

We leave it to you more adventurous guys and gals-----------and hope you enjoy it as much as we did.

Barry

I agree completely, I only have 53 years, but I enjoyed it till the end, the drugs have taken a toll. I'm giong to AUS.

woody with a view - 2-26-2010 at 09:32 PM

Barry

thanks for leaving "some" for us nexgen adventurers. the thrill of the outback and turning the corner towards the next bump along the coastline is what keeps us awake at night, also the nightmare scenarios that never seem to materialize.

but don't tell anyone.....

DENNIS - 2-26-2010 at 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by k-rico
Kids getting drunk in Mex and then getting on the freeways to go home, not good.

Wait a minute. That was me fifty years ago and I thought I was the All American boy.

roadhog - 2-28-2010 at 11:49 PM

I boom over on Wednesday. Coulda gone last winter, held off due to violence reports received on west coast of Florida. Approaching San Diego from Juan de Fuca, violence paranoia diminished to border town violence with travel farther south reported as free from the narco state drug civil war.
A very clear distinction between East Coast and West Coast perceptions of Mexican Drug War Dangers.
You all old Baja hands, what would renting in La Paz be like for a month or two ?

rhintransit - 3-1-2010 at 07:04 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by roadhog
I boom over on Wednesday. Coulda gone last winter, held off due to violence reports received on west coast of Florida. Approaching San Diego from Juan de Fuca, violence paranoia diminished to border town violence with travel farther south reported as free from the narco state drug civil war.
A very clear distinction between East Coast and West Coast perceptions of Mexican Drug War Dangers.
You all old Baja hands, what would renting in La Paz be like for a month or two ?

it's great. why do you ask? danger? practically zilch. the usual tourist anywhere precautions.