BajaNomad - Bad business for Baja news websites reporting on crime

Bad business for Baja news websites reporting on crime

JESSE - 3-2-2010 at 11:04 AM

AFN and Narcotijuana have been dead in the past few weeks for lack of to put it bluntly, murders in northern baja. Haven't seen it this quiet in years.

DENNIS - 3-2-2010 at 12:28 PM

"No news is good news."

Dave - 3-2-2010 at 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS
"No news is good news."

You're suggesting that there might be some coercion involved? :rolleyes:

toneart - 3-2-2010 at 02:02 PM

Jesse=cryptic :?:

DENNIS - 3-2-2010 at 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave

You're suggesting that there might be some coercion involved? :rolleyes:

Maybe Torres is getting his way.
Remember "1984" the book...not the year? New-Speak. Eliminate the word and you eliminate the concept. If the word "Crime" didn't exist, there would be no such thing as "Crime." That was the idea anyway. :lol:

k-rico - 3-2-2010 at 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JESSE
AFN and Narcotijuana have been dead in the past few weeks for lack of to put it bluntly, murders in northern baja. Haven't seen it this quiet in years.

Jesse, you seem to be up on the crime scene here in TJ, do you (or anybody else here) think that The Engineer and the remaining AFO folks have the TJ corridor to themselves now?

The more things change, the more they stay the same?

Bajahowodd - 3-2-2010 at 02:29 PM

There has been much in the Mexican press lately asserting that many feel Calderon has been playing favorites in the drug war to just that end.

k-rico - 3-2-2010 at 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajahowodd
There has been much in the Mexican press lately asserting that many feel Calderon has been playing favorites in the drug war to just that end.

It is a logical course of action, he's not going to stop the drug trafficking, I think everyone knows that.

JESSE - 3-2-2010 at 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by k-rico

Quote:

Originally posted by JESSE
AFN and Narcotijuana have been dead in the past few weeks for lack of to put it bluntly, murders in northern baja. Haven't seen it this quiet in years.

The AFO is now in total control, and they want to "cool" the area, no more kidnappings, no more gruesome deaths, no more extorsions. It was bad for business, and they do seem to understand that the experiment of wild and unlimited violence did not pay off.

IMHO, the cartel struck a deal with the federal goverment and maybe the Sinaloa cartel. Only that would explain the impressive destruction of Teo's gang. Wich apparently did not get any support from Sinaloa, and was heavily targeted by the federal goverment.

Its too early to tell, but i believe good times are coming to baja.

k-rico - 3-2-2010 at 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JESSE

Quote:

Originally posted by k-rico

Quote:

Originally posted by JESSE
AFN and Narcotijuana have been dead in the past few weeks for lack of to put it bluntly, murders in northern baja. Haven't seen it this quiet in years.

Hope you're right.

Just like the old days.

Unintended consequences of the drug war, AFO is back and folks are glad!! :lol:

DENNIS - 3-2-2010 at 04:12 PM

Does this mean there's going to be some kind of peaceful coexistance?

k-rico - 3-2-2010 at 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS
Does this mean there's going to be some kind of peaceful coexistance?

Hopefully. Is there any other peaceful way?

Bajahowodd - 3-2-2010 at 04:29 PM

But, there's still a huge camel that stuck its nose into the tent. It's called "The War on Drugs". Y'all know how I feel about that. But it ain't going away anytime soon. So, are we just rolling back the clock ten years?

DENNIS - 3-2-2010 at 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by k-rico

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS
Does this mean there's going to be some kind of peaceful coexistance?

Hopefully. Is there any other peaceful way?

I'm not sure this is what the writers of the Merida Initiative had in mind.

Bajahowodd - 3-2-2010 at 04:37 PM

Very true. However, as a Nomad sage posted here some time back, given Mexico's GDP, the dinero involved in the Merida Initiative seems like poquito cambio.

DENNIS - 3-2-2010 at 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajahowodd
Very true. However, as a Nomad sage posted here some time back, given Mexico's GDP, the dinero involved in the Merida Initiative seems like poquito cambio.

It's not the money. It's the act of capitulation that leaves the government a partner in crime. I don't think this will be well received.

Bajahowodd - 3-2-2010 at 04:51 PM

By who, por favor? Just saying that this mierda has been going on for decades. What negative fallout do you anticipate? And bear in mind that the PRD is not a party that is going to run on exterminating drugs.

DENNIS - 3-2-2010 at 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajahowodd
By who, por favor?

The United States. Can't believe you had to ask.

toneart - 3-2-2010 at 05:13 PM

Unbelievable! This is exactly the scenario I dreamed up in my imagination as to how to stop the violence. Nobody suggested it that I read. I was trying to think outside of the box; morals be damned. To me the most critical thing that HAD to be done was to stop the violence!

I put my idea up here on The Nomad a couple of times and didn't get any agreement, but I did get the normal reactionary opposition.

Like any political action (or non action) money is always at the root. When the stupid War on Drugs got to the point of diminishing returns, the government pulled the plug and made the deal. Now maybe Mexico can recover from its slide into a failed state, beginning with the return of its tourist trade. And maybe its people can come back out into the light without worry for their lives.

Of course, for me...People come first.

Our planet is entering in a whole new paradigm. If you can't see it coming, you will be blindsided by it and left behind.

"There's something happening here and you don't know what it is; do you, Mr. Jones?"--Bob Dylan

"If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem!"--Bob Dylan

DENNIS - 3-2-2010 at 05:15 PM

I think some here are jumping to conclusions.

toneart - 3-2-2010 at 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS
I think some here are jumping to conclusions.

This is possible, of course. We'll have to see how it plays out. :smug:

Peace in our time

Dave - 3-2-2010 at 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by toneart
Unbelievable! This is exactly the scenario I dreamed up in my imagination as to how to stop the violence. Nobody suggested it that I read. I was trying to think outside of the box; morals be damned. To me the most critical thing that HAD to be done was to stop the violence!

Been tried before.

Thank God saner heads prevailed. :rolleyes:

k-rico - 3-2-2010 at 07:05 PM

I've noticed everytime I think things are getting better, all hell breaks out the next day.

We'll see...............................

josie - 3-2-2010 at 07:49 PM

No news is good news. Let's keep our fingers crossed!

bajabass - 3-2-2010 at 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by josie
No news is good news. Let's keep our fingers crossed!

Amen. What ever it takes to stop the murder now! I really do not believe you will ever stop the drugs flowing north, until this prohibition ends. We won't see that happen soon enough for the innocent people caught in the crossfire of "the war on drugs". "back to normal" will save thousands of lives every year. The druggies north of the border will ruin their lives either way.AFO vs current situation, take your choice.

arrowhead - 3-3-2010 at 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajabass
The druggies north of the border will ruin their lives either way.

Yeah, and the taxpayers north of the border will pay for their long-term medical care. By the way, the news in AFN really hasn't changed that much. Here's the last week, and it was raining a lot:

Acribillan a hombre en Ojo de Agua
3/2/2010
http://afntijuana.info/blog/?p=28474

Cinco ejecutados en las últimas horas
2/27/2010
http://afntijuana.info/blog/?p=28281

Rescata el Ejército a seis y detiene a dos
2/25/2010
http://afntijuana.info/blog/?p=28024

Un ejecutado más este miércoles
2/24/2010
http://afntijuana.info/blog/?p=28083

Matan a otra persona en Tijuana
2/23/2010
http://afntijuana.info/blog/?p=28016

rob - 3-3-2010 at 09:56 AM

Poor Mexico, so far from God and so close to the United States - Porfirio Diaz (1830-1915)

bajabass - 3-3-2010 at 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by arrowhead

Quote:

Originally posted by bajabass
The druggies north of the border will ruin their lives either way.

Is our nation's illegal drug problem Mexico's fault??? :?:

JESSE - 3-3-2010 at 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by arrowhead

Quote:

Originally posted by bajabass
The druggies north of the border will ruin their lives either way.

Thats a lie! i monitor AFN several times a day, it usually covers several murders a day, and its been very very quiet in the past weeks. Your own numbers confirm that, 8 deaths in 7 days. Wich is "normal" for a city that size. A few weeks ago it was 8 murders a day.

arrowhead - 3-3-2010 at 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajabass
Is our nation's illegal drug problem Mexico's fault??? :?:

Can you find any statement here where I said the illegal drug problem in the US is Mexico's fault?

I think people are responsible for their own actions. The people of the US are responsible for the drug problem in the US. Mexico is responsible for the drug problem in Mexico. Only weak-kneed wusses search around for someone or something to blame their problems on.

Try to keep that thought in your head the next time you hear a Mexican politician pander to his electorate by blaming the US for the problems of Mexico.

arrowhead - 3-3-2010 at 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by JESSE
Thats a lie! i monitor AFN several times a day, it usually covers several murders a day, and its been very very quiet in the past weeks. Your own numbers confirm that, 8 deaths in 7 days. Wich is "normal" for a city that size. A few weeks ago it was 8 murders a day.

TJ had about 120 murders in January and about 65 in February. There's an article in today's "El Vigia" about that. Look it up. It's in the papers. And you have no clue what "normal" is. I guarantee it. Even at the lower February murder rate, it is 12 times the rate in San Diego.

I fail to understand why you cannot be honest about it. What do you gain by exaggeration? Who benefits from that?

JESSE - 3-3-2010 at 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by arrowhead

Quote:

Are you dumb? or do you just like to pretend your one? first of all you are proving my point with your statistics, crime was down 50% in the month of February. Second, i clearly said crime was down in the past couple of weeks, wich it has, now is down to about 35 people a month, even lower than the numbers you posted. The fact is, the murder rate in the past few weeks is now about what it was before the Teo mess started. You can cry as much as you want, but the numbers don't lie.

bajabass - 3-3-2010 at 12:01 PM

Your statement"yeah, and the tax payers north of the border will pay for their long-term med care", sounds like a little blame shifting to me. Simply stated, the druggies will get their poison somewhere. Whatever it takes to stop the wholesale slaughter of innocents will be a good thing. If AFO has taken control, and the murders stop, or slow down, fantastic!!! As far as taxes go, they stop when you die.

Woooosh - 3-3-2010 at 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JESSE
AFN and Narcotijuana have been dead in the past few weeks for lack of to put it bluntly, murders in northern baja. Haven't seen it this quiet in years.

Maybe crime is down, maybe not. Two years ago TJ had a state of the art security camera system at C4 that was the envy of many cities- and was credited with 12,000 detentions in its first year. IMHO the problem is TJ wasn't quite ready for that much truth and honesty, and now the entire system is dismantled. Even with the recent Security Warnings for drivers in TJ, and decimated tourist zone in TJ- the cameras have not been replaced. You don't need to solve a problem you don't have.

With heated elections coming on both sides of the border- nothing will get accomplished in the next year anyway.

Mexicans need some peace for a few years to recover. Seriously, we all do. If the gov't cuts a deal with the AFO or some cartel for now, so be it. Back to the old days, wait a couple years and try again. Everyone learned from the past few years- the narcos, the people and the gov't. It couldn't get any worse when and if they decide to wage this war again. Could it?

Photo below: Four empty camera mounts on a pole. Via rapida- from San Ysidro to Playas Tijuana.

[Edited on 3-3-2010 by Woooosh]

DSCN1774s1.jpg - 44kB

Bajahowodd - 3-3-2010 at 01:31 PM

Mankind has been "getting high" with whatever it could use, from the time it discovered it could get high. Over the centuries, those in power have always established arbitrary and self-serving controls. Prohibition worked like a charm, didn't it. :no:

Bajahowodd - 3-3-2010 at 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Woooosh

Quote:

Originally posted by JESSE
AFN and Narcotijuana have been dead in the past few weeks for lack of to put it bluntly, murders in northern baja. Haven't seen it this quiet in years.

Maybe crime is down, maybe not. Two years ago TJ had a state of the art security camera system at C4 that was the envy of many cities- and was credited with 12,000 detentions in its first year. IMHO the problem is TJ wasn't quite ready for that much truth and honesty, and now the entire system is dismantled. Even with the recent Security Warnings for drivers in TJ, and decimated tourist zone in TJ- the cameras have not been replaced. You don't need to solve a problem you don't have.

With heated elections coming on both sides of the border- nothing will get accomplished in the next year anyway.

Mexicans need some peace for a few years to recover. Seriously, we all do. If the gov't cuts a deal with the AFO or some cartel for now, so be it. Back to the old days, wait a couple years and try again. Everyone learned from the past few years- the narcos, the people and the gov't. It couldn't get any worse when and if they decide to wage this war again. Could it?

Photo: Empty camera mounts on the via rapida- from San Ysidro to Playas Tijuana...

[Edited on 3-3-2010 by Woooosh]

Doesn't Calderon have to establish some level of "victory" going into the elections, lest PAN suffer massive defeat?

DENNIS - 3-3-2010 at 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Woooosh
Mexicans need some peace for a few years to recover. Seriously, we all do. If the gov't cuts a deal with the AFO or some cartel for now, so be it.

What kind of deal? A deal is what got them to where they are today in the first place. De La Madrid took over an empty treasury so he bargained with the cartels to leave their money in Mexico and they would be left alone. Unfortunatly, the government lost control of their new business partner and you now see the results.

So, again I ask, what kind of deal? What this kind of deal crap will ultimatly result in is a militarized border and trade sanctions. The United States will not tolerate having a government drug dealer for a neighbor and the price for peace on Revolution Avenue will have to be paid another way.

Anihiliate the cartels. That is the only acceptible solution.

arrowhead - 3-3-2010 at 02:02 PM

Quote:

182 ejecuciones en sólo 2 meses
Por Frontera
3.03.2010

Se registraron 182 muertes violentas en los meses de enero y febrero, para un aumento del 68% en comparación con los mismos meses el año pasado; 2008 fue el más cruento

Tijuana, B. C. - A pesar de que algunos grandes capos del crimen organizado han sido detenidos, las ejecuciones continúan en alto número en la ciudad, pues en los dos primeros meses de este año fueron reportadas 182 muertes violentas.

De acuerdo con las estadísticas oficiales, en enero del 2010 se contabilizaron un total de 119 asesinatos, en tanto que durante el mes de febrero ocurrieron 63, lo que significa que aumentaron estos crímenes violentos en un 68% en comparación con el mismo periodo del 2009.

Si a estos asesinatos se suman los 123 ocurridos en el pasado mes de diciembre, significaría que en un trimestre van 305 homicidios.

De acuerdo con las estadísticas, el 2008 fue el año más sangriento registrado en esta frontera, puesto que fueron contabilizados 844 asesinatos, en tanto que el 2009 estuvo muy por debajo, con sólo 194.

De acuerdo con la información del Gobierno del Estado, del 2005 al 2007, en promedio, fueron contabilizadas 300 muertes por año, lo que demuestra que los últimos dos años han sido los más violentos y que los asesinatos han ido en incremento.

A principios de este año se logró la detención de los líderes del crimen organizado Teodoro García Simental, alias “El Teo”; Raydel López Uriarte, alias “El Muletas”, y Manuel García Simental, alias “El Chiquilín”, pero a pesar de eso, los homicidios continúan sin tregua.

http://www.elvigia.net/noticia/182-ejecuciones-en-s-lo-2-mes...

My Spanish is a little rusty Jesse. Could you translate this statement from TODAY'S NEWSPAPER for me?

pero a pesar de eso, los homicidios continúan sin tregua.
:rolleyes:

Woooosh - 3-3-2010 at 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by Woooosh
Mexicans need some peace for a few years to recover. Seriously, we all do. If the gov't cuts a deal with the AFO or some cartel for now, so be it.

The United States will not tolerate having a government drug dealer for a neighbor.

They already do.

Woooosh - 3-3-2010 at 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajahowodd

Quote:

Originally posted by Woooosh

Quote:

Originally posted by JESSE
AFN and Narcotijuana have been dead in the past few weeks for lack of to put it bluntly, murders in northern baja. Haven't seen it this quiet in years.

Maybe crime is down, maybe not. Two years ago TJ had a state of the art security camera system at C4 that was the envy of many cities- and was credited with 12,000 detentions in its first year. IMHO the problem is TJ wasn't quite ready for that much truth and honesty, and now the entire system is dismantled. Even with the recent Security Warnings for drivers in TJ, and decimated tourist zone in TJ- the cameras have not been replaced. You don't need to solve a problem you don't have.

With heated elections coming on both sides of the border- nothing will get accomplished in the next year anyway.

Mexicans need some peace for a few years to recover. Seriously, we all do. If the gov't cuts a deal with the AFO or some cartel for now, so be it. Back to the old days, wait a couple years and try again. Everyone learned from the past few years- the narcos, the people and the gov't. It couldn't get any worse when and if they decide to wage this war again. Could it?

Photo: Empty camera mounts on the via rapida- from San Ysidro to Playas Tijuana...

[Edited on 3-3-2010 by Woooosh]

Doesn't Calderon have to establish some level of "victory" going into the elections, lest PAN suffer massive defeat?

PAN, PRI, SPAM, whatever... I still have two years left before Mexican citizenship, then I can learn enough about political parties to be able to talk about them. I have no interest in the tactics either gov't uses, just results I can see and measure with my own eyes.

Bajahowodd - 3-3-2010 at 03:17 PM

Interesting point, arrowhead. In both 2009 and 2010 reported deaths in February were approximately 1/2 the number reported in January. However, comparing the two years, reported deaths are actually higher in 2010. So, I guess one of your points is that Jesse could well have made a similar observation at this time last year.

That said, is it still not possible what with all the arrests that have been made recently, there could be a little cause for optimism?

Woooosh - 3-3-2010 at 08:27 PM

They really do need the tourism industry to rebound to lead any local economic recovery. Make the tourist corridor and downtown TJ safe first, get some good PR out of it, and then work east through the city. The Chinese are opening new factories in TJ.

I don't think the murder rate is the most important number. The murder of 100 narco-idiots a month doesn't impact everyones quality of life. What does impact them is the increase in store robberies, money schemes, and home invasions and burglaries. These impact everyone's quality of life all across town, every day. Those crimes are on the increase and are economic, not drug-cartel- driven. JMHO though. Having a job to feed your family is a huge crime deterrent.

[Edited on 3-4-2010 by Woooosh]

805gregg - 3-3-2010 at 09:00 PM

The Mexican gov, making deals with the drug cartels is good news?

Woooosh - 3-3-2010 at 11:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by 805gregg
The Mexican gov, making deals with the drug cartels is good news?

Yeah, for now- if it's all they have to work with. Mexico wasn't ready for this fight and they only found that out after it started. Nothing has worked-out the past few years:

Front line: They suspended/fired hundreds of corrupt TJ cops who were replaced by corrupt military. TJ removed a state of the art security system not because it didn't work (12,000 detentions the first year), but because it worked too well- and the Military ran the cameras out of C4. TJ wasn't ready for that much honesty on film yet. The best solution to stop the infighting was simply to let the cameras go away- in the middle of the narco battle.

Prosecution: The judicial system is still years away from being effective enough to handle the depth of the problem. Whenever justice is determined behind closed doors by one person- corruption can play a role. Unless extradited to the USA- criminals can and do buy their way out of everything- including jail.

Economics short term: The combination of real crime, swine flu, economic downturn, long border waits, new passport rules, and bad PR have virtually killed the local tourist-based economy. There are more closed tourist business than profitable ones right now. This causes the loss of jobs, increased street crimes and further reduced retail consumer spending for the local economy. Real estate sales are almost non existent.

Social impact: In addition to the loss of real and economic security- the short term factors are creating a culture shift backwards. People who created menus, built our houses, made custom furniture and created unique works of art are now going out of business completely. Not slowing down- going away. Once these skills are lost, and not passed down to the next generation- they are gone. Colleges are dropping classes as more students have to drop out of school. It's a death spiral and it's happening now.

Yes, the first choice isn't to make peace with the cartels. But Mexico can't realistically win this war yet. Give it six or seven more years to get the police , military, prosecution and judicial systems ready- they go at it again. If TJ/Rosarito can't catch an break and get back in the economic game soon, the permanent social consequences will be worse than the current economic ones. What's the point of fighting a "war" to the point of killing everything? JMHO

DENNIS - 3-4-2010 at 07:10 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Woooosh

Quote:

Originally posted by 805gregg
The Mexican gov, making deals with the drug cartels is good news?

Yeah, for now- if it's all they have to work with.

Why would it get any better later? Your suggestion is surrender.
War is hell, Woooosh. Servitude to a drug cartel is worse.
I'm appaled by your, "If you can't beat 'em, join 'em" solution. It's morally disgusting.

Iflyfish - 3-4-2010 at 08:52 AM

Thanks for starting this very important thread Jesse. You will soon be meeting with my good friends Jerry and Germaine.

We all hope and pray for a cessation of the senseless carnage. I have posted at length on the subject of prohibition and will not comment more on that subject.

Cooptation and incorporation is a traditional method of dispute resolution in Mexico. If you study the last 100 years of Mexican history you will find examples of how a group of people take a stand with the government and the government names the leaders to head committees, study the problem, head bureaus devoted to addressing the problem etc. and pay them and their decedents to hold these government positions. I rather admire the style; though have some problem with the substance. I think it is called Pragmatism. Henry Kissinger, one of the better historians of compromise said that the hardest people to deal with in foreign policy are the “true believer”. There is no compromise to these people and therefore one engages in a zero/sum game with them. If all policy was based upon morality we would all be living in a theocracy.

Some form of rapprochement was established in the Copper Canyon, one of the most dangerous places on earth, in my opinion, that allowed for a safe corridor down the canyon for the train and vehicular traffic on the main road. The train was ambushed and all hell broke loose till some agreement was reached that allowed the inflow of tourist dollars into the region and kept the growers happy. There is precedent for such an arrangement. I don't know who the parties were that made that agreement, just reporting a fact.

Iflyfish

arrowhead - 3-4-2010 at 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Iflyfish
Cooptation and incorporation is a traditional method of dispute resolution in Mexico. If you study the last 100 years of Mexican history you will find examples of how a group of people take a stand with the government and the government names the leaders to head committees, study the problem, head bureaus devoted to addressing the problem etc. and pay them and their decedents to hold these government positions. I rather admire the style; though have some problem with the substance. I think it is called Pragmatism.

If you go back another half century, you will find that co-opting opponents was the tactic developed by Porfiro Diaz. He was essentially a dictator of Mexico, holding office as president for over 30 years. When asked why he co-opted everyone, he said, " If you throw a dog a bone, he neither barks nor bites."

But it backfired in the end. The system became so corrupt that it led to the peasants revolt and the Mexican Revolution of 1910. Now fast forward to 2010. Nothings changed, has it? That is why I still expect another revolution in Mexico.

Iflyfish - 3-4-2010 at 09:31 AM

I don't know about the Revolution part but the rest of your post is spot on.

Human beings have a finite range of behavioral and strategic options available to address issues and it seems that the more things change the more they stay the same and we do not seem to learn from history.

Iflyfish

josie - 3-4-2010 at 09:46 AM

I read a column online a while back that predicted that both Mexico and the USA will experience another revolution. The author predicted different starting points but that both would end up intertwined. If I can find it I will post it as it was a very interesting read.

JESSE - 3-4-2010 at 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by arrowhead

Quote:

My Spanish is a little rusty Jesse. Could you translate this statement from TODAY'S NEWSPAPER for me?

pero a pesar de eso, los homicidios continúan sin tregua.
:rolleyes:

Maybe you have a learning disability, so let me try to clear things up for you.

I CLEARLY SAID CRIME HAS BEEN DOWN FOR A COUPLE OF WEEKS NOW, NOT MONTHS, NOT MONTH, NOT YEARS, NOT TRIMESTERS, I SAID WEEKS, DO YOU GET IT? WEEKS!!!

Hope that clears up things for you.

JESSE - 3-4-2010 at 11:12 AM

Tijuana murders January 2010 = 118 or 4 a day
Tijuana murders February 2010 = 31 or 1 a day
Tijuana murders March 2010 = 1

It doesn't get more clear than that.

Woooosh - 3-4-2010 at 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by Woooosh

Quote:

Originally posted by 805gregg
The Mexican gov, making deals with the drug cartels is good news?

Yeah, for now- if it's all they have to work with.

I don't like it either Dennis, but Mexico needs time to re-group. Maybe the Meridia funds will help make it happen faster. We Americans are revolutionary by nature (ousted the Brits) and have the right to bear arms. Mexicans were conquered by the Spanish and their gov't controls the people- preventing them from bearing arms. Those vastly different starting points lead to the difference we are having in this debate.

Mexico needs to do what Mexico CAN do. I didn't know the depth of this appeasement philosophy until I read the other posts. It just validates my position that this is how things work in the Mexican culture. It will change- but not until they put all the other pieces together. They need to take care of their people next, and then come back and clean things up. JMHO.

[Edited on 3-4-2010 by Woooosh]

DENNIS - 3-4-2010 at 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Woooosh
I don't like it either Dennis, but Mexico needs time to re-group.

BS.......Mexico needs to turn up the heat. WTF, they've been on a roll. Why stop just when they seem to have it figured out.
If the government pulls back now, the whole world will know they capitulated at a time when they had the upper hand. How will they explain that? Or, will they go back to the old days when they didn't explain anything to anybody.
No way, Woooosh. No going back to the old days. Mexico is part of the big world now.

Who is to know?

toneart - 3-4-2010 at 03:09 PM

We are not privy to political decisions at that level, in Mexico or the U.S. The deal will be/has been(?) made and the cartel violence will lessen, the hot spots of irritation and vendetta will play out and then it will get quieter.

There will certainly be no official announcement and no press release. The United States cannot publicly condone the deal but they would be in on it. True, Mexico is a sovereign nation, but they can't do diddly without the United state's behind-the-scenes-approval. The State Department would feign ignorance. The CIA can make it happen.

That's the way world politics work: Deals are made; targeted heads roll; the financial compensations are exchanged and everybody is happy except for the inflexible, dogmatic, status quo war mongers who are co-opted.

Wha hoppen? :?:

Woooosh - 3-4-2010 at 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by toneart
We are not privy to political decisions at that level, in Mexico or the U.S. The deal will be/has been(?) made and the cartel violence will lessen, the hot spots of irritation and vendetta will play out and then it will get quieter.

There will certainly be no official announcement and no press release. The United States cannot publicly condone the deal but they would be in on it. True, Mexico is a sovereign nation, but they can't do diddly without the United state's behind-the-scenes-approval. The State Department would feign ignorance. The CIA can make it happen.

That's the way world politics work: Deals are made; targeted heads roll; the financial compensations are exchanged and everybody is happy except for the inflexible, dogmatic, status quo war mongers who are co-opted.

Wha hoppen? :?:

Yeah Dennis- what ToneArt just said.

Woooosh - 3-4-2010 at 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by Woooosh
I don't like it either Dennis, but Mexico needs time to re-group.

Mexico is plumb out of heat. No one really expected Mexico to be warriors on an anti-drug crusade. The narcos started it with each other and the gov't got sucked in before it was clean and ready enough to take part. It may never be ready. Many countries are far worse off than Mexico- for sure. That's why I support making life better for the people first now- before they lose a whole generation and take a step backwards for nothing. There's no shame in surrendering this battle to save the lives of your people.

DENNIS - 3-4-2010 at 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Woooosh
Mexico is plumb out of heat. No one really expected Mexico to be warriors on an anti-drug crusade. The narcos started it with each other and the gov't got sucked in before it was clean and ready enough to take part. It may never be ready. Many countries are far worse off than Mexico- for sure. That's why I support making life better for the people first now- before they lose a whole generation and take a step backwards for nothing. There's no shame in surrendering this battle to save the lives of your people.

Screw you, Woooosh. You're an effing loser quiter. You are the ***ing problem.
People like you who suck off the enemy just so they won't bother you anymore are quitters and losers. You and your type are leading yourselves to the ovens. You don't have the fight. Gawwwd...you and people like you make me sick.
You won't survive in the long run because your comfort today is all you see and your understanding of the issue has been pre-empted by your need for comfort at the moment.
baloney, Woooosh....you betray the effort to improve society and you betray what all the dead soldiers in the war fought for.
You betray me and.....you betray yourself. Had I thought you were a quitter, I would have never talked to you.

Woooosh - 3-4-2010 at 08:02 PM

Ya know Dennis- I didn't even finish reading your post. The first sentence was enough. Take a deep breath and check your meds.

DENNIS - 3-4-2010 at 09:33 PM

Too bad. It's some of my best stuff. I'll lay it on ya later.

captainkettel - 3-5-2010 at 08:12 AM

"There's no shame in surrendering this battle to save the lives of your people."

Hey Dennis, this guy must be French!

DENNIS - 3-5-2010 at 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by captainkettel
"There's no shame in surrendering this battle to save the lives of your people."

Hey Dennis, this guy must be French!

Ouí. C'est évident. :lol:

Woooosh - 3-5-2010 at 06:12 PM

There's a difference between surrendering a battle and turning your own people over to foreign invaders for extermination.

DENNIS - 3-6-2010 at 07:07 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Woooosh
There's a difference between surrendering a battle and turning your own people over to foreign invaders for extermination.

Depends on how you look at it. In this case, they may be one and the same since drugs exterminate as effectivly as gas and bullets.
I don't understand how you can come to terms with this illicit industry. Just because these people arn't in the streets shooting each other doesn't make their existance tolerable. They're still dealing in death and destruction.

Another thing....the death in the streets was mainly confined to scum on scum. What could be better? Why would anybody want to stop that?

MURDERS: DOWN IN TJ, UP IN LP?

bajajazz - 3-6-2010 at 09:17 AM

I'm surprised there's been no mention of recent killings and assaults involving gunplay that have occurred in La Paz this past week.

The death of a young lawyer and wounding of two others in a bar on the Malecon in La Paz a couple of nights ago is simultaneously shocking and mysterious to us, as is the rumor that two men were killed in a gun battle near the Panteon a week or so ago.

I use the word 'shocking' because until very recently the most serious crime in La Paz that we were aware of was a bank robbery that happened about 25 years ago.

Now, since El Teo's arrest, there are reports of extreme violence in La Paz that are completely out of character with this wonderful city's history and reputation. One hopes that recent events are an anomaly and not a harbinger of worse to come.

DENNIS - 3-6-2010 at 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajajazz
I'm surprised there's been no mention of recent killings and assaults involving gunplay that have occurred in La Paz this past week.

I'm not sure where to begin, but there's a line to consider between cartel violence, which I see as everybody's business due to the international implications, and city crime which is everywhere. It would be myopic to deny that La Paz hasn't always had it's share.
We are getting a lot of reports of what I consider to be city crime out of Tijuana, Ensenada and all other place in the vicinity and it makes me wonder how much of this is attributed to the cartels given the increased amount of activity they've been involved with recently. I'm beginning to believe that people assume all of it is cartel related when that isn't the case. Dense populations will have crime.

Anyway, I'm not by any means defending cartels and their activities. I'm only saying they arn't the cause of it all.

Yep....tha's all I'm sayin'.