BajaNomad - Cultural Differences

Cultural Differences

Gypsy Jan - 3-2-2010 at 01:51 PM

-Headline Misspelling Fixed-

Today, our housekeeper told me that she loves working for us because I play classical music.

She said, "I listen to the music and then I go home and I can sleep. My house is very noisy because of the TV and the children with their video games."

[Edited on 3-2-2010 by Gypsy Jan]

[Edited on 3-2-2010 by Gypsy Jan]

Mulegena - 3-2-2010 at 01:56 PM

Has she a CD player, portable with earphones?
I see perfect birthday and/or Christmas gifts on the horizon...

toneart - 3-2-2010 at 01:59 PM

That doesn't sound very different. :no:

Cultural?

Dave - 3-2-2010 at 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gypsy Jan
Today, our housekeeper told me that she loves working for us because I play classical music.

She said, "I listen to the music and then I go home and I can sleep. My house is very noisy because of the TV and the children with their video games."

Sounds like she has discipline differences.

DENNIS - 3-2-2010 at 02:25 PM

Permissive Mexican mother syndrome.

Bajahowodd - 3-2-2010 at 02:27 PM

PMMS? :lol:

Hey, What the Hey

Gypsy Jan - 3-2-2010 at 02:33 PM

She is of the belief that cleaning up after seven big dogs (five Great Danes, one Big Rottweiler and one Big German Shepherd) is a walk in the park.

Go figure.

[Edited on 3-2-2010 by Gypsy Jan]

Ohh, I Forgot to Add to This

Gypsy Jan - 3-2-2010 at 02:54 PM

That she told me that Mexicans have no appreciation of classical music at all.

Please, do not shoot the messenger, I am only reporting from the field.

[Edited on 3-2-2010 by Gypsy Jan]

[Edited on 3-2-2010 by Gypsy Jan]

shari - 3-2-2010 at 03:51 PM

thanks for your post Jan....I appreciate your understanding of cultural differences...and i love it when we can contribute something positive to their culture that they enjoy, appreciate or can benefit from.

I find it so fascinating some of the little things that pop up regarding these differences...like Juan eating with a spoon...they just didnt have knives and forks in san roque and ate everything with spoons.

Now...I wonder what they will think of the water skiis????

comitan - 3-2-2010 at 04:17 PM

La Paz has at least one classical music station. Heavy!!

I Take for Granted

Gypsy Jan - 3-2-2010 at 04:20 PM

What someone in my life thinks is a gift, a blessing.

Reality check.

GJ

Bajahowodd - 3-2-2010 at 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by shari
thanks for your post Jan....I appreciate your understanding of cultural differences...and i love it when we can contribute something positive to their culture that they enjoy, appreciate or can benefit from.

I find it so fascinating some of the little things that pop up regarding these differences...like Juan eating with a spoon...they just didnt have knives and forks in san roque and ate everything with spoons.

Now...I wonder what they will think of the water skiis????

Much of what has been posted speaks to rural Mexico. It is quite true that for a very long time, a wealthy, educated elite ruled the country. I know for a fact that classical music has a large audience in both Guadalajara and Mexico City. This thread is akin to someone speaking about a domestic employee from Appalachia in the US. Mexico is a very diverse nation. Thankfully, its wealth has begun to spread beyond the elite oligarchs. But it still has a way to go.

Juan Eats With a Spoon?

Gypsy Jan - 3-2-2010 at 05:17 PM

He is a cultured gentleman.

All my best regards, GJ

josie - 3-2-2010 at 07:57 PM

Cultural formation is directly connected to what we are exposed to and classical music was something that was simply not available to most living on remote ranchos. But does that make someone "less" cultural?

I am quite sure that your housekeeper really loves the fact that you thought to share the experience with her.

shari - 3-2-2010 at 08:05 PM

Actually, Juan is one of the most cultured people I have had the honour of knowing! The guy has a lot of class! He learned english by reading national geographic.

I remember the first time I got invited over to an amigos house for lunch...I felt like such an idiot...they had NO cutlery and they all happily used the tortillas as a sort of spoon....I was useless and embarassed and tried so hard to watch them and figure it out. They never imagined someone couldnt eat with a tortilla!...and were trying hard not to laugh at me.

eetdrt88 - 3-2-2010 at 09:33 PM

those cultural differences are a big reason why as a kid i found baja so fascinating and still do to this day...everytime i end up in a place like Asuncion or Abreojos im blown away by the sincerity and the generosity of the people i meet there

El Comadante Loco - 3-2-2010 at 10:02 PM

This thread show a lack of understanding, respect, dignity, values, and does not do anything to promote harmony between two cultures..

I am sure the posted comment and the general reference made regarding Mexicans and Classical Music was not done in a bigoted malicious manner but was rather given out of ignorance and cultural blindness. It is time to keep these types of generalizations of any culture or people off this web,, Please..

Shoot the messenger?

Dave - 3-2-2010 at 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by El Comadante Loco
This thread show a lack of understanding, respect, dignity, values, and does not do anything to promote harmony between two cultures..

I am sure the posted comment and the general reference made regarding Mexicans and Classical Music was not done in a bigoted malicious manner but was rather given out of ignorance and cultural blindness. It is time to keep these types of generalizations of any culture or people off this web,, Please..

The generalization was made by a member of the culture.

I find Mexicans in general and typically unlike their American counterparts to be far more respectful and appreciative of all forms of music. They are a wonderful audience.

And any question about their devotion to classical music wouldn't stand this test:

In the middle of a dry lake bed...Near Mexicali...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JsM19HcQfwQ

El Comadante Loco - 3-2-2010 at 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave

Quote:

Dave - 3-2-2010 at 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by El Comadante Loco
Why is it so necessary to draw comparisons and conclusions?

It's the heart of the scientific process...of cognitive thought and decision making.

How do you process data and make conclusions?

Skipjack Joe - 3-3-2010 at 12:31 AM

You may want to break it in slowly. Start with

"Roll over Beethoven"

k-rico - 3-3-2010 at 07:01 AM

or some Rossini

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j97EJQ1z7nY

[Edited on 3-3-2010 by k-rico]

ELINVESTIG8R - 3-3-2010 at 07:08 AM

I love eating my food at Mama Espinoza's with just a tortilla. That is how I grew up eating in Mexico. You should have seen me sitting at a garbage can with a chewed on tortilla in my hand eating from the garbage when I was a homeless kid running around Mexico. :lol:

dtutko1 - 3-3-2010 at 07:42 AM

I personally don't care for classical music, too white and european, but i do have a good story about Mexicans and music. We were camping at Santispac several years back, when a vender "Francisco" proposed making woven bracelets w/names on them. He had his daughter , who was learning the process,and granddaughter with him. We had him make bracelets for our 5 grandaughters back in the us. This process took a couple hours. while he was working i played my collection of mexican/american music artists. Linda Rhondstat, Los Lobos, The super seven, playing cansiones de me Padre and other classical mexican music. We all enjoyed the time we spent together. A week or so later we saw the same family in santa rosalia when the daughter saw us she said to her dad there's the people with the bonita musica. We've been friends ever since.
No spell checkers were harmed in the preperation of this post.

bajabass - 3-3-2010 at 08:14 AM

Back to PMMS and cultural differences. What is it about sons, that make their mothers treat them like princes and let them get away with murder on a daily basis. :?:

shari - 3-3-2010 at 08:43 AM

I understand, respect and value the dignity of mexicanos...eating with a spoon or not having been exposed to classical music is simply an observed cultural difference .....in some parts of remote baja and does NOT imply they lack culture.

Naturally one cannot generalize about any culture but our comments are based on where we live and the people here...I do not find it bigoted....and I believe the more foreigners understand and learn about the culture....the more harmonious we may become....through sharing.

DianaT - 3-3-2010 at 10:06 AM

Quote:

I really read Jan's post more as a cultural/generation statement---one that could apply to any culture----the enjoyment of soothing music away from the confusion of home life, an escape. Now if the classical music was Wagner, well, not so soothing. :biggrin:

But in this case, I didn't see any real generalization or cultural statement---at least not the way I read it.

But I do agree that often generalizations about the different cultures are made---what is observed in one place is generalized for the entire culture and Mexico really is a country of many cultures, and many languages. I cringe whenever I read, "Mexicans say, or do, or believe, etc." I agree that while it is easy to generalize, and I know I have been guilty of doing same, it is not OK.

And it is downright silly to think that anyone does not have culture---it just have different definitions, as does the idea of class. The ceremonial killing goats and drinking the blood is high class culture in some places.

Your post was thoughtful and a reminder that we all have different definitions for things like culture.

Thanks

Woooosh - 3-3-2010 at 10:50 AM

My Mexican relatives enjoy the (mostly) traditional gringo Thanksgiving feast we prepare. Every year they try so hard to use knives and forks properly- but we tell them it's OK to use the home-made tortillas we also serve. Tortillas are truly the Mexican cutlery tool of choice and make good sanitary sense. They do think it's fun to try out the silverware and we all laugh together, especially with the youngsters. I also showed them how to twirl a few strands of spaghetti onto their forks on the side of their plate- instead of chopping it all up into small pieces and eating it with a spoon. These small cultural differences bring us together through sharing and laughter. Why would we all want to be the same?

I Have Been Doing a Duck-and-Cover

Gypsy Jan - 3-3-2010 at 06:37 PM

Ever since I made this post.

Well, at least the Nomads are getting fired up in the grand tradition of JR Baja.

Without belaboring the subject, let me restate what I originally posted.

My Mexican housekeeper who considers us a part of her family made a spontaneous statement to me about how much she enjoys the classical music she hears when she comes to our home and how it enriches her life.

I was startled and humbled, first by her statement of appreciation, and, second, by the fact that she shared with me such intimate details of her family life.

Also, she informed me that she doesn't need to take pain pills when she goes home because the music has worked for her.

[Edited on 3-4-2010 by Gypsy Jan]

bajabass - 3-3-2010 at 07:01 PM

I'd say she needs an I-Pod and headphones for Mother's Day. Considering the emotion you felt, I think she is part of your family as well!

Woooosh - 3-3-2010 at 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gypsy Jan
Ever since I made this post.

Well, at least the Nomads are getting fired up in the grand tradition of JR Baja.

Without belaboring the subject, let me restate what I originally posted.

My Mexican housekeeper who considers us a part of her family made a spontaneous statement to me about how much she enjoys the classical music she hears when she comes to our home and how it enriches her life.

I was startled and humbled, first by her statement of appreciation, and, second, by the fact that she shared with me such intimate details of her family life.

Also, she informed me that she doesn't need to take pain pills when she goes home because the music has worked for her.

[Edited on 3-4-2010 by Gypsy Jan]

Oh.. Why didn't ya say so?

guess I got carried away.

Skipjack Joe - 3-3-2010 at 09:03 PM

Shari,

You poor woman. It must be insufferable. :lol:

[Edited on 3-4-2010 by Skipjack Joe]

Cassatt_Mary_Tea_1879-1880.jpg - 49kB

josie - 3-4-2010 at 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Woooosh
My Mexican relatives enjoy the (mostly) traditional gringo Thanksgiving feast we prepare. Every year they try so hard to use knives and forks properly- but we tell them it's OK to use the home-made tortillas we also serve. Tortillas are truly the Mexican cutlery tool of choice and make good sanitary sense. They do think it's fun to try out the silverware and we all laugh together, especially with the youngsters. I also showed them how to twirl a few strands of spaghetti onto their forks on the side of their plate- instead of chopping it all up into small pieces and eating it with a spoon. These small cultural differences bring us together through sharing and laughter. Why would we all want to be the same?

I really liked what you said Mr. Woooosh! Vive la différence!

Iflyfish - 3-4-2010 at 09:08 AM

I wonder what they do with the Symphony Orchestras and Opera houses one sees all over Mexico. I wonder what Plácido Domingo and José Carreras and the now deceased Italian opera singer Luciano Pavarotti, who sang in many venues in Mexico including Chitzen Itza might say about this subject. I could go on.

I really appreciate Jan’s use of the phrase Cultural Differences; this reflects a viewpoint that would serve us all well.

Iflyfish

Osprey - 3-4-2010 at 10:02 AM

I was gonna say "Let's all celebrate our cultural differences" until I thought how that would play here. I'm thinking about my Mexican neighbors who are forced by Mexican law to max out the volumn control on the grabador with Banda at 2:30 in the ho hum or how they like my Rockin' In The Oldies with the 50's on Sirius on my big patio West Marina vocinas at 9 when my wife has gone shopping.

Tano - 3-4-2010 at 10:14 AM

Apples and oranges.

Osprey - 3-4-2010 at 10:57 AM

Grapes and pears

MitchMan - 3-4-2010 at 11:33 AM

Mussolini liked classical music.

MitchMan - 3-4-2010 at 11:48 AM

An improvement in culture is found among those things that encourage a people to treat each other better and better and that expand constructive enrichment to the life experience. I think a culture is improved through education, promotion of a work ethic both physically and intellectually, promotion of humanity and compassion, and in the appreciation of fair play.
Sorry, classical music is not the hallmark of genuine culture. Perhaps a deeper appreciation of Mariachi music and learning local traditional dance would be the equivalent to your soul.

Subtle Differences

Gypsy Jan - 3-4-2010 at 02:03 PM

It's the sharing of special interests that come up in our encounters with people that counts.

Iflyfish - 3-4-2010 at 02:48 PM

Ya know, next to mordida it is the loud music that most clenches my jaw muscles. I have experienced it all over Mexico.

As I have thought about it the ubiquitous nature of it reflects a tolerance in Mexico for individual behavior, live and let live, that is hard to find in the homogenous, litigious land to the north. That, at least for me, is the up side of it though that is not what I say under my breath at night. I once decided to get up and request my music be played next at full volume……seemed to work…..only a couple of pieces did the trick. However that approach has also led to a major baracho or two.

Iflyfish

Excuse me?

Oso - 3-4-2010 at 05:00 PM

Composers that were born in Mexico, or gained the Mexican nationality.
Group members

* Ayala-Pérez, Daniel (1906–1975)
* Becerril Alatorre, Jose (1964–)
* Carrillo, Julián (1875–1965)
* Castro, Ricardo (1864–1907)
* Chávez, Carlos (1899–1978)
* Contreras-Sánchez, Salvador (1910–1982)
* D’Mendo Boteli, Miguel Angel Botello (1974–)
* Fernandez, Gaspar (1570–1629)
* Galindo Dimas, Blas (1910–1993)
* Guevara y Vazquez, Alvaro (1962–)
* Huízar (García de la Cadena), Candelario (1883–1970)
* Jimenez, Miguel Bernal (1910–1956)
* Lifchitz, Max (1948–)
* Márquez, Arturo (1950–)
* Mata, Eduardo (1942–1995)
* Meneses Sandi, Luis (1905–1996)
* Moncayo, José Pablo Garcia (1912–1958)
* Ponce, Manuel Maria (1882–1948)
* Revueltas, Silvestre (1899–1940)
* Rolón, José (1876–1945)
* Rosas, Juventino (1868–1894)
* Sandoval, Carlos (1956–)
* Santos, Enrique (1930–)
* Schwendinger, Laura Elise (1962–)
* Szeryng, Henryk (1918–1988)
* Torres Maldonado, Javier (1968–)
* Trigos, Juan (1965–)
* Villanueva, Felipe (1862–1893)

DENNIS - 3-4-2010 at 05:10 PM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Music_of_Mexico