BajaNomad - CBP Detaining people to search cars

CBP Detaining people to search cars

BJSoccer16 - 3-9-2010 at 10:10 PM

Has anyone had a run in with immigration officers where they were sent to secondary and detains (handcuffed and processed like a criminal) even though they had nothing illegal while the officers searched their car because the dog signaled? Please share your stories as this to me is a violation of a citizen's rights. The car was returned with seats detached and turn signal broken as well.

[Edited on 3-10-2010 by BJSoccer16]

No Surprise

MrBillM - 3-9-2010 at 10:52 PM

On the Nat Geo "Border Wars" series, there was one episode where the Dog hit on a car and they did exactly that. Took the car apart for hours, found nothing and sent the guy on his way after holding him in a cell.

Most interesting was the comment by the supervisor when he said "We'll get him next time".

BJSoccer16 - 3-11-2010 at 06:29 AM

The worst part of living in Mexico is the Border Patrol ---- a body shop fixed what they left messed up for 50 pesos; and a mechanic fixed the turn signal for 150 pesos; would have cost more than that in dollars on the other side. I've lost the respect I used to hold for our law enforcement. The people that are supposedly keeping us safe rob people of their dignity and civil liberty and creating a fear of law enforcement in innocent people. We had the car detailed and I got through today with no problems; guess the dogs got excited when they smelled our new puppy (that's my assumption since the officers had no idea what might have set off the false alarm).....the best part is they know that not every car the dogs smell has contraband --in fact more often than not the cars the dogs (signal) have nothing yet the still treat people (American citizens included) like trash.

mtgoat666 - 3-11-2010 at 07:13 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by MrBillM
On the Nat Geo "Border Wars" series, there was one episode where the Dog hit on a car and they did exactly that. Took the car apart for hours, found nothing and sent the guy on his way after holding him in a cell.

Most interesting was the comment by the supervisor when he said "We'll get him next time".

fascists. but par for the course in the US where uninformed citizenery alow their law enforcement to practice thuggery without consequences.

wessongroup - 3-11-2010 at 07:22 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by soulpatch
I see the whole CBP/DHS thing all the time. They "follow" now, they don't do pursuits...although they follow at very high speeds and then they don't get it when the the smugglers eat poop at high speed and spread bodies all over the road.
It is really amazing the array of equipment these guys have at their disposal right down to Mexican plated cars. I love it when their investigators try to shut the CHP out of the scenes and the CHP/SO's throw the hammer down and their investigators roll their eyes over the whole mess.
This story could go on forever.
Let the bashing begin.

No, that is really funny.. jurisdiction its always a hoot.. gets really bad if there are cameras running.. and you know there is always a few that want their voices and pictures on the 5 o'clock news.. never can tell.. might get a career change :lol:

[Edited on 3-11-2010 by wessongroup]

wilderone - 3-11-2010 at 08:47 AM

Talk with a few civil rights lawyers and see what they have to say. The handcuffing does seem a bit much for an "investigatory stop." I agree BP can be too heavy handed. When I was sent to secondary for my agriculture check, the guy with the dog was all around my car - twice. Why don't they have the dog check all the cars in the first place while they're waiting at the red light?
These are diferent times than in the past, however, with the war on terror, homeland security and all that. You can file a claim for the damage.

DENNIS - 3-11-2010 at 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by wilderone
Why don't they have the dog check all the cars in the first place while they're waiting at the red light?

I think they like to keep their dogs out of the exhaust as much as possible. Too many adverse effects. The freakin' dog is probably in a union that demands this.
I wonder how much those dogs get paid? :light:

monoloco - 3-11-2010 at 10:37 AM

I have been detained, handcuffed, fingerprinted, and photographed when crossing the U.S. border. They weren't nice about it at all and it took a couple of hours because the guys on duty were so stupid they couldn't figure out how to use all their hi-tech toys. When they finally figured out that I wasn't who they thought I was they didn't even offer an apology, they didn't log the incident in their computer system so I was subjected to the same treatment the very next time I crossed. It was pretty unnerving when the lady at the booth told me to turn off my truck and I heard a blaring alarm and 10 guys came running out with guns drawn and surrounded my vehicle. The funniest part is while I was being detained one of the guys asked me what I thought about the cops in Mexico, I told him that in 25 years I had never had been treated as poorly by the Mexican police as I was being treated by his group.

wessongroup - 3-11-2010 at 10:49 AM

mono... that is absoultly BS, to cuff someone and not be placed under arrest, and if placed under arrest I would expect to be informed of my rights and why I was being placed under arrest..

I'm sure there is video of this, and under the Freedom of Information Act, one can make written request for same.

Unless it has changed, it's been quite a while for me.. on this issue..

But, it seems more than an excessive response to someone just crossing the border... I mean really, are they expecting a shoot out over ........ what?

Seems over all threat could easily be determined by "patting down" the individual, and with that much staff, where you going to go... not anywhere in your vehicle.. don't really understand the why..

Anyone that works BP... a little help on the thinking..

Seems like running the plates, Passport and the drivers license would bring up "some" information.. maybe I'm missing something..

After thought.. maybe it was something you posted

[Edited on 3-11-2010 by wessongroup]

Cypress - 3-11-2010 at 10:59 AM

Was stopped and searched at a roadblock north of Yuma. They unlaoded my truck and used a dog to check it all out. I had to repack and reload all of the contents. Not fun.

wessongroup - 3-11-2010 at 11:26 AM

I saw a guy at the check point on the toll road going into Ensenada about a week back getting this treatment.. the wife was driving so I could really watch as they were going through this guys stuff..

It had been pulled out of his car.. everything.. clothes, seats everything.. when we were creeping through the line of traffic.. I saw one officer, open a "quart of oil" for your car, and then upend it onto the ground.. guess it could have hand something inside.. but, with the twist cap unbroken, seemed a pretty rotten trick to play on this guy.. I don't have knowledge about the guy, maybe be the officers did..

Just seemed a bit.. of a cheap shot..

Its a no fun job, but ..... really, it is part of the job.. to treat folks decent..

I can only hope they take pity on this old guy, would be a real b-tch for me to try and do all that stuff.. or even with the wife..

I hope no one else get this treatment....

[Edited on 3-11-2010 by wessongroup]

monoloco - 3-11-2010 at 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by wessongroup
mono... that is absoultly BS, to cuff someone and not be placed under arrest, and if placed under arrest I would expect to be informed of my rights and why I was being placed under arrest..

I'm sure there is video of this, and under the Freedom of Information Act, one can make written request for same.

Unless it has changed, it's been quite a while for me.. on this issue..

But, it seems more than an excessive response to someone just crossing the border... I mean really, are they expecting a shoot out over ........ what?

Seems over all threat could easily be determined by "patting down" the individual, and with that much staff, where you going to go... not anywhere in your vehicle.. don't really understand the why..

Anyone that works BP... a little help on the thinking..

Seems like running the plates, Passport and the drivers license would bring up "some" information.. maybe I'm missing something..

After thought.. maybe it was something you posted

[Edited on 3-11-2010 by wessongroup]

Yeah Wiley, maybe it's from all that subversive stuff I post in Off Topic. Let this be a lesson to all of you. :lol:

The funny thing is, I don't think they even searched my rig. If they did they didn't find the 5 bottles of Cazadores I had stashed

bajaguy - 3-11-2010 at 04:06 PM

It's called "investigative detention" and during this time you can be handcuffed. It is perfectly legal. The CBP does not need probable cause, just reasonable suspicion.

When you are in the lanes to enter into the US and cross the yellow line on the pavement you play by their rules..........

Just be polite, and answer the questions without any smart aleck remarks. There is a secret to crossing the border (not boarder) and apparently some people have not learned what that secret is.

monoloco.......just FYI....just because you are detained, have cuffs placed on you or are arrested, they don't have to read you your rights..........

Bajahowodd - 3-11-2010 at 04:16 PM

It's just so heartwarming to see how this is all working so well. Osama has not made it across the Mexican border. Oh. But, he's got to be laughing his culo off at how much he has changed our way of life.

monoloco - 3-11-2010 at 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajaguy

monoloco.......just FYI....just because you are detained, have cuffs placed on you or are arrested, they don't have to read you your rights..........

I am well familiar with my rights so I didn't particularly care if they read them to me or not. I think that criminals getting off because nobody read them their rights is a crock, if someone doesn't know their rights then they weren't paying attention in school and deserve what ever they get for being stupid. I'm pretty sure most criminals know their rights better than the general population.

bajaguy - 3-11-2010 at 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by monoloco

Quote:

Originally posted by bajaguy

monoloco.......just FYI....just because you are detained, have cuffs placed on you or are arrested, they don't have to read you your rights..........

You are soooooooo right!!!!!!

woody with a view - 3-12-2010 at 05:39 PM

Quote:

I have been detained, handcuffed, fingerprinted, and photographed when crossing the U.S. border.

yeah, me too! just not by CBP!!!

i would be peeed, but my granpappy told me stories just like the OP's (he was a cop!) when i was a kid. i guess it wouldn't surprise me to have this treatment.

after all, these are the thugs keeping the terrorists shaking in their robes. just think whatta place we'd live in if they greeted everyone with a coke and a smile!

Woooosh - 3-12-2010 at 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BJSoccer16
Has anyone had a run in with immigration officers where they were sent to secondary and detains (handcuffed and processed like a criminal) even though they had nothing illegal while the officers searched their car because the dog signaled? Please share your stories as this to me is a violation of a citizen's rights. The car was returned with seats detached and turn signal broken as well.

[Edited on 3-10-2010 by BJSoccer16]

I got sent to secondary a week or so ago. Not sure why (orange colored post-it, every color means something different I guess) and two different mini-traffic cones on the hood. I pulled in the inspection area and waited, and waited. I had my car registration, drivers' license and auto insurance card out. My passport was with the post-it under my wiper blades. I made a phone call and told the wife calmly that I was at Secondary and forgot to take the new bag of dog food out of the car before leaving the house. There was a sign clearly posted that said something like "all conversations are being recorded". About ten minutes later the guy came over to me, took the paper and passport and asked me to get out and open my hood. I had the back seats down- but he said he could see everything just fine. He was actually very nice and said "you're fine and you'll be on your way in a minute- I'll be right back with your stamped exit pass". He came right back wished me a nice day and I pulled out and left.

But while I was there in Secondary I saw the guy crossing in the lane next to me that the dogs had "hit on". While in the crossing lane the dog walked around his car and then sat calmly next to his rear bumper with his nose up against it. They brought another dog over and he did the same thing. They escorted him over to secondary and he parked just past me- but out of my sight. Next thing I saw was the dog handlers rewarding their dogs with a towel chew-toy thing and praising them. Then the driver came by in handcuffs. Finally a female agent came by with wrapped packages in her hands (assumed they were the drugs from the bumper). When I exited secondary the car was being dismantled basically.

So maybe if they find one person with drugs, or suspect drugs from a dog response- they take the cars in the next lanes too in case they are a team. Or maybe you were tee'd off and had a conversation in your car at secondary they "overheard" that made them want to look at you some more- or just mess with you a bit. Or maybe the car had passed back and forth to Mexico in a pattern they didn't like.

I took it all in as educational- wasn't in a hurry and wasn't really upset (except I wished I had brought a paper from the vendor to read while waiting- instead of using the time to clean out my glove box). I don't think you will ever know the answer as to why you were treated badly. It could be a combination of a dozen things that had little to do with you. Them damaging your car isn't good- but I saw one inspector who must have been 350 pounds- and him getting into your car could have broken off the steering wheel- not just a turn signal lever.

bajafam - 3-12-2010 at 07:07 PM

I have seen this happen at the border inspection in Las Cruces, New Mexico. The car 4 cars ahead of us was stopped, the driver and passenger removed in handcuffs and brought into the inspection building, and then the car dismantled while the rest of us waited to get through. They weren't gently about it either. Ripped the crap out of that thing! They did find what they were looking for; several wrapped bundles that they tore out from under the floor in the trunk. I was amazed. How did they know? I didn't notice any dogs until AFTER the occupants of the car were removed. I also wondered what they would do if they DIDN'T find anything...hmmm...probably say, whoops, sorry. And this was the USBP. Can definitely say that I was nervous that they would stop us, seeing as we were driving a giant U-Haul, with a car inside, and towing another vehicle. But they didn't.

We've only gone through secondary once coming in and once going out. Both times the BP (on both sides) were very nice. The Mexican guys were even pretty funny. They only stopped us because we didn't stop at the stop sign leaving immigration and gave my husband quite a hard time about "not understanding English" as the stop sign clearly said STOP!

arrowhead - 3-12-2010 at 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajahowodd
It's just so heartwarming to see how this is all working so well. Osama has not made it across the Mexican border. Oh. But, he's got to be laughing his culo off at how much he has changed our way of life.

I'm sure he's laughing from his bed on the dirt floor deep inside of a cold cave in Pakistan, where cannot even communicate directly with his family because the CIA would send a missile up his burro and soon as the turned on a cell phone.

woody with a view - 3-12-2010 at 08:18 PM

hijack alert!!

my money is on he's been captured and flown up to 5000 feet in a helicopter and kicked out the open door with an US Marine screaming, "allah akbar" in his horror stricken face!

these are my dreams!

BJSoccer16 - 3-13-2010 at 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajaguy
It's called "investigative detention" and during this time you can be handcuffed. It is perfectly legal. The CBP does not need probable cause, just reasonable suspicion.

When you are in the lanes to enter into the US and cross the yellow line on the pavement you play by their rules..........

Just be polite, and answer the questions without any smart aleck remarks. There is a secret to crossing the border (not boarder) and apparently some people have not learned what that secret is.

monoloco.......just FYI....just because you are detained, have cuffs placed on you or are arrested, they don't have to read you your rights..........

It's pretty messed up that this is legal, especially since I'm a law abiding citizen....I asked nicely why I was being detained was yelled at not to say anything....would not let me make a phone call...husband was worried sick. I have always been polite to police, border patrol included.

BJSoccer16 - 3-13-2010 at 06:43 PM

Quote:

[Edited on 3-11-2010 by wessongroup]

Had the checked those things (and my criminal [non] record), they would have seen I was not in need of cuffing and rudeness, but a polite, can you please wait in that secure room while you search your car. And once inside, "we have to pat you down and hold your stuff while they check your car." If I don't comply cuff me, throw me to the ground, whatever. This is a horrible way to do business. They are turning good citizens into people that hate law enforcement. BTW it was not my posts; I have never written anything derogatory about the bp before this incident, but I am going to make as big a fuss about this incident as possible, so people know this is going on.

bajaguy - 3-13-2010 at 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BJSoccer16
........ but I am going to make as big a fuss about this incident as possible, so people know this is going on.

Start here..........

Vincent Bond, Press Officer (San Diego Area)
Acting Field Branch Chief, Northern and Coastal Border
Phone: (619) 652-9966 Ext: 114 or 192
Email: vincent.bond@dhs.gov

San Diego Sector
Richard Barlow, Acting Chief
610 W. Ash St
Suite 1200
San Diego , CA 92101
(619) 652-9966 Ext: 100

Let us know the outcome

mtgoat666 - 3-13-2010 at 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BJSoccer16

Quote:

[Edited on 3-11-2010 by wessongroup]

it was GWB administration that turned customs from friendly human being into jack booted thugs. unfortunately, they have staffed up homeland security with bad apples, and it is unfortunate that they hired bad people. it is doubly unfortunate that homeland security management contains same bad apples, so don't expect them to clean house -- on contrary, expect them to hire more bad officers and get worse.
when law officers behave badly they should not be surprised when no one trusts law enforcement.
over the years i think most people learn to never trust anyone in uniform.

mtgoat666 - 3-13-2010 at 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajaguy

Quote:

Originally posted by BJSoccer16
........ but I am going to make as big a fuss about this incident as possible, so people know this is going on.

don't bother to complain. they typically throw complaints in the trash, and protect their own. you can complain to your congressman, but he/she won't do squat unless you first get press re your violated rights. if you can't get publicity, everyone will sweep it under the rug.
move on, and just live your life while avoiding gestapo and vote no on all measures to fund police expansion.

Bajahowodd - 3-13-2010 at 07:51 PM

No kidding! :no:

Paula - 3-13-2010 at 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mtgoat666

Quote:

Originally posted by bajaguy

Quote:

Originally posted by BJSoccer16
........ but I am going to make as big a fuss about this incident as possible, so people know this is going on.

Complaining is cathartic, and may make you feel better. So I would first follow Bajaguy's advice, letting this office know that you are sending carbon copies to your US senators and representatives, various newspapers, the department of homeland security, the president, and anyone else you feel inclined to contact. Maybe Oliver Stone, Robert Redford, Michael Moore and whoever is in charge of 60 Minutes these days?

Then move on to the goat's advice. At least you gave it a good shot. Don't get hung up watching the mailbox for responses.

monoloco - 3-13-2010 at 08:15 PM

I was surprised at how clueless and inept the BP guys seemed to be. After my 2 incidents I filled out the complaint form and sent it in, we'll see what happens next time I cross.

BajaBruno - 3-13-2010 at 11:44 PM

The Border Patrol has the lowest entrance requirements of any federal law enforcement agency and a very short academy training course. They do not train at the usual Federal Law Enforcement Training Center in Glynco, GA, but rather at their own center in New Mexico. Their beginning pay grades are ridiculously low.

All of this may be a predictor of the kind of people they attract and retain. I have certainly been less than impressed over the years with their competence, courtesy, or general level of service.

Sharksbaja - 3-14-2010 at 01:08 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by BajaBruno
The Border Patrol has the lowest entrance requirements of any federal law enforcement agency and a very short academy training course. They do not train at the usual Federal Law Enforcement Training Center in Glynco, GA, but rather at their own center in New Mexico. Their beginning pay grades are ridiculously low.

All of this may be a predictor of the kind of people they attract and retain. I have certainly been less than impressed over the years with their competence, courtesy, or general level of service.

Spot on brother. Total lack of civility towards strangers, citizens or not.

I'd like to see the application for employment, :lol:

No police record...yer hired!