BajaNomad - DOGS ARE HARMFUL TO THE ENVIRONMENT

DOGS ARE HARMFUL TO THE ENVIRONMENT

Pompano - 3-10-2010 at 10:05 AM

..ahem...

It's a dog's life...literally.

THIS FROM PARIS (AP).. which of course makes it the absolute truth... :rolleyes:

– Man's best friend could be one of the environment's worst enemies, according to a new study which says the carbon pawprint of a pet dog is more than double that of a gas-guzzling sports utility vehicle.

But the revelation in the book "Time to Eat the Dog: The Real Guide to Sustainable Living" by New Zealanders Robert and Brenda Vale has angered pet owners who feel they are being singled out as troublemakers.

The Vales, specialists in sustainable living at Victoria University of Wellington, NZ, analysed popular brands of pet food and calculated that a medium-sized dog eats around 164 kilos (360 pounds) of meat and 95 kilos of cereal a year.
Combine the land required to generate its food and a "medium" sized dog has an annual footprint of 0.84 hectares (2.07 acres) -- around twice the 0.41 hectares required by a 4x4 driving 10,000 kilometres (6,200 miles) a year, including energy to build the car.

To confirm the results, the New Scientist magazine asked John Barrett at the Stockholm Environment Institute in York, Britain, to calculate eco-pawprints based on his own data. The results were essentially the same.

"Owning a dog really is quite an extravagance, mainly because of the carbon footprint of meat," Barrett said.
Other animals aren't much better for the environment, the Vales say.

Cats have an eco-footprint of about 0.15 hectares, slightly less than driving a Volkswagen Golf for a year, while two hamsters equates to a plasma television and even the humble goldfish burns energy equivalent to two mobile telephones.

But Reha Huttin, president of France's 30 Million Friends animal rights foundation says the human impact of eliminating pets would be equally devastating.

"Pets are anti-depressants, they help us cope with stress, they are good for the elderly," Huttin told AFP.

"Everyone should work out their own environmental impact. I should be allowed to say that I walk instead of using my car and that I don't eat meat, so why shouldn't I be allowed to have a little cat to alleviate my loneliness?" Sylvie Comont, proud owner of seven cats and two dogs -- the environmental equivalent of a small fleet of cars -- says defiantly, "Our animals give us so much that I don't feel like a polluter at all.

"I think the love we have for our animals and what they contribute to our lives outweighs the environmental considerations. I don't want a life without animals," she told AFP.

And pets' environmental impact is not limited to their carbon footprint, as cats and dogs devastate wildlife, spread disease and pollute waterways, the Vales say.
With a total 7.7 million cats in Britain, more than 188 million wild animals are hunted, killed and eaten by feline predators per year, or an average 25 birds, mammals and frogs per cat, according to figures in the New Scientist.

Likewise, dogs decrease biodiversity in areas they are walked, while their faeces cause high bacterial levels in rivers and streams, making the water unsafe to drink, starving waterways of oxygen and killing aquatic life.
And cat poo can be even more toxic than doggy doo -- owners who flush their litter down the toilet ultimately infect sea otters and other animals with toxoplasma gondii, which causes a killer brain disease.

But despite the apocalyptic visions of domesticated animals' environmental impact, solutions exist, including reducing pets' protein-rich meat intake.

"If pussy is scoffing 'Fancy Feast' -- or some other food made from choice cuts of meat -- then the relative impact is likely to be high," said Robert Vale.

"If, on the other hand, the cat is fed on fish heads and other leftovers from the fishmonger, the impact ]will be lower."
Other potential positive steps include avoiding walking your dog in wildlife-rich areas and keeping your cat indoors at night when it has a particular thirst for other, smaller animals' blood.

As with buying a car, humans are also encouraged to take the environmental impact of their future possession/companion into account.

But the best way of compensating for that paw or clawprint is to make sure your animal is dual purpose]he Vales urge. Get a hen, which offsets its impact by laying edible eggs, or a rabbit, prepared to make the ultimate environmental sacrifice by ending up on the dinner table.

"Rabbits are good, provided you eat them," said Robert Vale

The ball is in your court.

[Edited on 3-10-2010 by Pompano]

Nan&D - 3-10-2010 at 10:30 AM

Thank you Pompano. Now instead of saying I just don't like pet dogs, I can play the environmentalist.
Nancy

bajajudy - 3-10-2010 at 12:11 PM

I would rather have a dog than a car anyway

Good

Dave - 3-10-2010 at 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajajudy
I would rather have a dog than a car anyway

Let's trade.

Sunman - 3-10-2010 at 12:33 PM

People actually get paid for studies like this. :?:

monoloco - 3-10-2010 at 12:36 PM

Not to mention all that poop on the beach.

DianaT - 3-10-2010 at 01:17 PM

So Roger,

Just when are your dogs headed for their dirt nap---surely you do not want to do any more pollution. Fat chance, right? :lol:

Well, I still do not really trust people who do not like dogs, nor people my big dog doesn't trust. The little one stays suspicious of all humans---she is probably correct. :biggrin:

wessongroup - 3-10-2010 at 01:17 PM

Mine eat the same food as I.... and they get milk chocolate too, lick the rappers and fingers and a small piece of a candy bar on occasion.. onions and anything else they want.. much like me... I don't like their food, and they don't like it either... given the choice they always prefer my Cherrios with milk and banana's or my cream of wheat .. to their dry dog food or their canned stuff too..

Since down here in Baja, they really have developed a taste for burrito's, tamales and chirozzo/eggs/potatoes, and they have taken to jalapeños too.. .... plus really like fresh flour tortillas with butter... glad we have tile floors.. and I'm don't care about that kinda of crap anymore either.. get ants.. I spray.. yeah.. tell me about pesticides...

This morning the neighbors dog, "Azul" came in and got into bed with me... Azul is a mix, German Shepherd and a Whippet ... a big guy.. but a pup about 1-2 years old and really likes his butt scratched.. big time, well, he got up on my bed and I still had my tray to the side from breakfast.. had burritos, red chili and beef with fresh flour tortillas and jalapeño ... there was a little left.. which he ate in a couple of gulps.. peppers and all.. my two dogs had already had their taste .... so it was no big deal.. and they all get along..

But, this dog ate jalapeños too.. cracked me up.. they are doing just fine.. hear them barking outside as I type..

It's about lunch time.. they all should be showing up... funny how that works..

BajaRat - 3-10-2010 at 01:35 PM

Thanks Pompano,
I've been looking for a good excuse to recycle our family members. After all they've only been my daughter's best friends since birth. One of my son's high points to his day is when they nuzzle their way into the house to "kiss" the kittens. I think they're just softening them up to eat later. They protect our children and livestock from lions and coyotes while they play outside at our ranchito. They've even proven themselves on several occasions deterring unwelcome guests from our camps and cars while keeping the good sense to welcome/embrace/lick the crap out of those we welcome.

On second thought I think I'll keep them.
Hope you all have the opportunity to experience the love of a dog.

Lionel

Woooosh - 3-10-2010 at 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by monoloco
Not to mention all that poop on the beach.

More people than dogs on the beach... No Mexican beach outing is complete unless someone has packed a shovel and roll of TP. just saying... :biggrin:

Update from Cedrik, Coyote Beach Dog at Large

Pompano - 3-10-2010 at 02:18 PM

As I type this ..Cedrik the Beach has come to offer her apologies.

Furthermore, she has promised to lower her carbon footprint. As soon as she finds out what the hell it is.

Nan&D - 3-10-2010 at 02:30 PM

Well I realize that as a newbie I might get Bit here! But Cedrik, do ya mind not coming up and licking me after eating all those burritos?

Dog Pawprint

Skipjack Joe - 3-10-2010 at 02:35 PM

The largest carbon pawprint? - the greyhound

<groan>

Don Alley - 3-10-2010 at 02:41 PM

I fault the study for its comparisons to automobiles and other manufactured goods.

Instead, I'd like to see the carbon footprint of a dog compared to that of a child, natural or adopted. And of an adult.

The smallest carbon footprint on the family.

But my dog's carbon footprint was extra large today: he got hold of almost a whole loaf of Bimbo bread.

The Largest Carbon Footprints

Gypsy Jan - 3-10-2010 at 03:19 PM

In our house, are left when the cat, not the dogs, plays in the cooled fireplace ashes.

DianaT - 3-10-2010 at 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by wessongroup
well, he got up on my bed and I still had my tray to the side from breakfast..

You get breakfast served to you in bed? Nice gig. :biggrin:

We also feed our dogs human food---raw and cooked and only a little dog food thrown in. But do be careful with the chocolate---it is on the poison list for dogs. A tiny amount probably is ok. List of Poison Foods for dogs

Probably should not give that link to the dog haters.

[Edited on 3-11-2010 by DianaT]

Debra - 3-10-2010 at 06:12 PM

Hey Pomp.........thanks for 'stiring the pot" thankfully my pup is modest, he doesn't like anyone, including me, watching him poo......I tease him sometimes and watch him and he will move back and forth to a private place to do his "business" .....good boy! Never has he done is nasty stuff where he would embarress himself or me.

Question for all the "doggie" people.......how do I keep well meaning people from feeding my pup people food? I don't want to be rude, but, this has been a problem.........people food doesn't sit well with him and I end up with him up-chucking after too much "love" :no:

I never give a treat to children not my own without asking first, why not the same for pets?

DENNIS - 3-10-2010 at 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Debra
Question for all the "doggie" people.......how do I keep well meaning people from feeding my pup people food?

Jeeeezo....I know what you mean. My neighbors treat my dog like a garbage disposal. We came home one day and there was a complete meal in a plate on the deck, left there for LuLu, meat, potatos, veggies.
I figured out that if I told an innocent neighbor, he wouldn't be able to keep it to himself and word got back to the guilty party. It seems to be working, so far.

Nan&D - 3-10-2010 at 06:40 PM

In another previous career, I was a gas meter reader.
Well trained in dog behavior, and appropriate defense. At dog school, there was an example given of a co-worker giving treats to the dogs on his route as a friendly gesture. One gas client responded by beating his dog for accepting food from a stranger. Yikes, but true.

Debra - 3-10-2010 at 06:52 PM

"well, hopefully, this will get the doggie loving people thinking that maybe treats might not be so treating in the belly later? I do know that malice isn't meant........it's just that not all bellies are created equal :spingrin:

It's Easier to Train Dogs Than People

Gypsy Jan - 3-10-2010 at 07:12 PM

Many years ago we were chatting with a lady who lived in Pescador. She made a remark, quite casually, that in the last week all the dogs in her campo died. And then she said that several homes there were robbed in the next few days.

Needless to say, this seriously freaked us out. We have trained our dogs to refuse food from anyone but ourselves, using mild electric shock. This may not be to your taste. (Oops, bad pun warning!)

Here is a discussion on the subject about training your dog to drop food on verbal command:
http://www.dogster.com/forums/Behavior_and_Training/thread/6...

[Edited on 3-11-2010 by Gypsy Jan]

Debra - 3-10-2010 at 07:12 PM

Nan, ,Beat any animal, you will make an aggresive animal.........that is just plain idiotic! cruel and wicked! He should be arrested! Postmen, meter readers or UPS delivery people are people that come baning on your door, never invited in, so if you have a dog worth his salt he will protect, in my HMOP if you have any sense you will intorduce those people that come to your house on a regular schedule to your pet and give them a treat (not people foodl Milk Bone or whatever so that the dog knows that this person is welcome and not a danger to the family)

Woooosh - 3-10-2010 at 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Nan&
In another previous career, I was a gas meter reader.
Well trained in dog behavior, and appropriate defense. At dog school, there was an example given of a co-worker giving treats to the dogs on his route as a friendly gesture. One gas client responded by beating his dog for accepting food from a stranger. Yikes, but true.

The way people poison their neighbors nuisance dogs down here with anti-freeze injected in meat- I'm not surprised. Beating is way too severe and never acceptable. I have bitten the ears of and growled at my dogs though (something they understand as pack animals).

We don't allow our dogs to eat anything they find on the beach or fed from others either. We don't make a big scene- we just say "yuck" or "drop" and that works. Our dogs get great food, pig ears and treats- the "beach buffet" just doesn't work for their digestive systems and makes "picking up" after them more than a simple plastic bag thing.

We do save our people-food scraps for the street dogs though and always have a bowl of fresh water at the front door for them. Our dogs get really upset when we give other dogs the good-smelling stuff... but that's why they are the dogs and we are the guardians.

You might have it backwards

Howard - 3-10-2010 at 07:29 PM

Are you sure than the subject title shouldn't read, "The environment is harmful to dogs?”

Nan&D - 3-10-2010 at 07:43 PM

Most dogs would respond favorably to being given a treat. But, it was against company policy, for many of the reasons that we are reading about here.
In my earlier example, the owner wanted a dog that would be aggressive to strangers, and was training as he saw fit.

Nan&D - 3-10-2010 at 08:00 PM

Example of non-aggressive behavior.

dog jail.jpg - 48kB

BajaRat - 3-10-2010 at 08:29 PM

Let them eat cake!
Or something like that. Tocino too!
If we ever see the gate I can't help but thinking that we'll be met by someone in a who farted hat asking what the hell was wrong with you!

Lionel

BajaBruno - 3-11-2010 at 12:31 AM

Thanks, DianaT---tomorrow there are chocolate treats for my wife's damn beagle.

monoloco - 3-11-2010 at 06:51 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gypsy Jan
Many years ago we were chatting with a lady who lived in Pescador. She made a remark, quite casually, that in the last week all the dogs in her campo died. And then she said that several homes there were robbed in the next few days.

Needless to say, this seriously freaked us out. We have trained our dogs to refuse food from anyone but ourselves, using mild electric shock. This may not be to your taste. (Oops, bad pun warning!)

Here is a discussion on the subject about training your dog to drop food on verbal command:
http://www.dogster.com/forums/Behavior_and_Training/thread/6...

[Edited on 3-11-2010 by Gypsy Jan]

A small battery powered fence charger is the best way to train your dog not to eat anything that is not from their bowl. I learned this method years ago from the Kohler Method dog training manual. Leave tasty morsels around for them wired to the charger, they learn very quickly that anything not in their bowl is likely to be unpleasant.

after effects

wessongroup - 3-11-2010 at 07:28 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pompano
As I type this ..Cedrik the Beach has come to offer her apologies.

Furthermore, she has promised to lower her carbon footprint. As soon as she finds out what the hell it is.

And I thought the carbon foot print, was that pile they left... :lol:

And Pompano, your absouletly correct about the ..... I'm sorry for the mess I left.. they do at times get the "quick step" from some of that eating of spicy food... but, like me.. they come back for more... and seem no worse for the wear... and your pups picture is great as is all your others... thanks for sharing all.... makes my day

Woooosh - 3-11-2010 at 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by monoloco

Quote:

We use this four dog electronic system from Dogtra- intended for hunting dogs. Waterproof, rechargeable and you can use a light or a heavy "touch". When the dogs see the collars- they know a long beach walk is coming and wait in line to get them put on. They don't associate them with the correction shocks at all, and we rarely go higher than a "3" on a scale of 1 to 8. Might not work on smart dogs though- we have labs.

http://www.dogtra.com/

[Edited on 3-11-2010 by Woooosh]

1800.jpg - 47kB

Dogs dying

wessongroup - 3-11-2010 at 10:37 AM

44 lb dog could experience distress after eating 8.5 oz of dark chocolate or

1.1 Pounds of milk chocolate which might cause bradycardia, or tachyarrhythmia

Bakers chocolate .02 oz/lb will cause “symptoms”

Overall chocolate candies contain 1.4-2.1 g/kg
Dark chocolate or baker’s chocolate >14 g/kg

The concern over a dog “dying” from eating chocolate is much over stated

Just about everything is Toxic at some level; it’s all about the dosage to weight ratio and the ability to detoxify a particular chemical substance by an animals and/or plants metabolism

Used to share my Halloween candy with my dogs as a kid… they never, ever died.. but then I didn't give them as much as I got…

[Edited on 3-11-2010 by wessongroup]

www.wifetra.com?

El Camote - 3-11-2010 at 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Woooosh

We use this four dog electronic system from Dogtra- intended for hunting dogs. Waterproof, rechargeable and you can use a light or a heavy "touch". When the dogs see the collars- they know a long beach walk is coming and wait in line to get them put on. They don't associate them with the correction shocks at all, and we rarely go higher than a "3" on a scale of 1 to 8. Might not work on smart dogs though- we have labs.

http://www.dogtra.com/

[Edited on 3-11-2010 by Woooosh]

Put some shiny bangles and gems on the collar, rename it a necklace and it may just deter those compulsive runs to Nordstroms. Just brainstormin'. :yes:

monoloco - 3-11-2010 at 11:43 AM

I was with my wife in a sporting goods store and we noticed that they had dog collars with a GPS locator on them, I suggested that it would be a good way for me to find her when we go shopping. She was less than amused.

Pompano - 3-11-2010 at 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by El Camote

Quote:

Put some shiny bangles and gems on the collar, rename it a necklace and it may just deter those compulsive runs to Nordstroms. Just brainstormin'. :yes:

Quote:

Originally posted by monoloco
I was with my wife in a sporting goods store and we noticed that they had dog collars with a GPS locator on them, I suggested that it would be a good way for me to find her when we go shopping. She was less than amused.

BE VERY CAREFUL HERE, BOYS...YOU ARE IN DANGEROUS WATERS. TRUST ME ON THIS.

El Camote - 3-11-2010 at 03:38 PM

If Vinnie was a married man, I have full confidence he would take pity on my soul.

You're right, pomp, I should be careful. I don't want to ruin my chances for the neuticles I was promised.

Besides, SWMBO is in Montana for the week and there isn't internet connection that far north yet....is there?

Woooosh - 3-11-2010 at 03:49 PM

Quote:

I set the houselhold up for a "Family locator" service from Nextel. Tells me within 20 feet where she is on a map without her even knowing- so long as the phone is on. Nobody here would tell on me- right? :saint:

[Edited on 3-11-2010 by Woooosh]

Woooosh - 3-11-2010 at 03:51 PM

I have to say- Nomads have some beautiful dogs.

jahImpala3 - 3-11-2010 at 05:32 PM

Roger,
Go share this to Raven Research West (Gary) on the camping beach parked under the mangrove trees. He's always talking about the impact dog's have on the beach. He's always out there patrolling the dogs and letting the owners know where they sh-t on the beach.

Woosh

Gypsy Jan - 3-11-2010 at 05:52 PM

I had the same thought myself. Nomads have beautiful dogs.

GJ

dtutko1 - 3-12-2010 at 07:10 AM

Roger
You might consider investing in one of those reusable wine corks w/a handheld vacum pump. You wine tastebuds will appreciate it.