BajaNomad - What is going on in Cabo??

What is going on in Cabo??

makana.gabriel - 4-1-2010 at 09:05 PM

The latest editorial in the Gringo Gazette paints a terrible picture of daily life in Cabo San Lucas faced by both business owners and visitors alike. I tried to copy and post it but was unable to. Any input from those of you living at the bottom of the peninsula?

Gaucho - 4-1-2010 at 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by makana.gabriel
The latest editorial in the Gringo Gazette paints a terrible picture of daily life in Cabo San Lucas faced by both business owners and visitors alike. I tried to copy and post it but was unable to. Any input from those of you living at the bottom of the peninsula?

I've read the editorial your writing about. Carrie is basically putting in writing what everybody else knows but is afraid to say. In my opinion it makes perfect sense. Will her plan be implemented? Nope. But it's an interesting concept. She also has her own bar and restaurant in town so she's hurtin' like every other business that relies on foreigners.

Gaucho - 4-1-2010 at 11:06 PM

Here's the editorial:

Proposal To Reverse Los Cabos’ Decline In Tourism
Los Cabos is experiencing a loss of tourists because of the world economy, drug violence, and most of all the mistreatment of the tourists
The world economy is already improving, there is nothing we can do about the drug violence, but we can improve the shameful way we treat our tourists

Just a few years ago we could get away with treating our visitors harshly, the only people who heard about it were the friends and family of the people who were mistreated. But nowadays all our bad deeds are exposed through the internet by angry people who feel wronged. Stories of how badly Los Cabos treats their visitors are all over the internet.
Worse, almost everyone who is contemplating coming to Cabo looks at the internet for information when they’re thinking of coming here. Our reputation scares them from even booking their trip. Waiters steal credit card numbers and buy merchandise on it before our tourists even get home. Waiters pad bills. The waiters at Senor Frogs are actually picking pockets of cruise ship visitors. Dozens of times a day the police pull drivers over and frighten them into giving them money. The federal police commonly work the highway to the airport, taking the passport from the visitor, and threatening they will miss their plane if they do not give the police money. The tourist police can not be expected to police the police, they are on the same team and have to get along with them.
The police in downtown Cabo San Lucas constantly prey on foreigners, picking them up late at night and threatening to plant drugs on them if they don’t give them money. The city police also are known to force tourists to go to an ATM and draw out hundreds of dollars to give to them. Many of the gas stations, especially those close to the airport, short change the tourists who drive rental cars. Many times doctors and clinics extort large amounts of money from our visitors, and if they resist, the police are
hired by the hospitals to scare the money out of the foreigners. Many doctors will not sign the documents necessary by insurance companies to air evacuate a foreigner out of the country until they are paid thousands of dollars in extortion. And where can these foreigners turn to? The law? The law is the problem. One foreigner, a Realtor in Cabo San Lucas, went to the Ministerio Publico for help and the Ministerio Publico told him he could make the problem would go away if he were given $40,000 pesos! Extortion by what we would call the district attorney’s office!
The government is the problem.
Therefore we can not look to government officials for the solution
The Solution
We who make our living off the foreign community must protect our income
by protecting our tourists. We need to organize volunteers to patrol the hot spots of trouble, and they should wear a distinctive purple shirt that says tourist assistance on it. These volunteers will stand by any foreigner they see stopped by the police and assure
that they are treated fairly. They should also pop into the local hospitals several times a day and ask foreigners sitting in the waiting room if they have any problems with the hospital admnstration. They should also stand watch around the malecon when the cruise ships are in port, and protect them from pickpockets and thieves. The volunteers wearing the purple shirts can best be drawn from the hotels, restaurants, shops and sports activities
that are dependent on the tourists. Even the timeshare companies can pitch in employees. If each company volunteered the services of just two of their English speaking employees once a week, we would have plenty of volunteers to cover San Jose and Cabo San Lucas. It is important that these volunteers only work as vigilantes occasionally, so they don’t
go into cahoots with the police and become part of the problem. We need two volunteers in purple shirts to work the airport. One person to greet our visitors as they come out of
immigration and customs and into the waiting room. Approach them with a smile and a flyer listing tips on what they should do if they encounter a problem. There should be a phone number, (with dialing instructions), on that flyer, and we need to monitor that phone number with an English speaking tourist advocate. The second airport volunteer should be in the area where tourists are waiting for their flight to leave. They should
pass out questionnaires titled, “How Did We Do?” which will pinpoint problem areas that we may not be patrolling and it will show how much we care about our guests’ satisfaction and safety. Participating merchants can be given stickers for their windows, displaying the “Los Cabos Is Tourist Friendly” logo, and enlisting those merchants into our program.
Use The Internet To Tell Everyone How We Have Changed
The second part of this plan is telling the world how much we care for our foreigners’ comfort and safety and that it is again safe to come to Los Cabos. We need to tell them the extraordinary steps we’re taking for them. We launch an advertising campaign promoting our program and conveying our slogan. Los Cabos is Tourist Friendly. If the Visitors Bureau or the Hotel Association or CANIRAC or even the federal tourist ministry has any money to promote us, let’s try to break off from promoting the entire country, which the foreigners know has problems, and promote Los Cabos as an island of tranquility and safety in Mexico.In addition to whatever money can be spent on this campaign of information in the U.S. and Canada, I suggest we fight back on the internet. It’s been used against us, now let’s use it for us. For not much money we can hire a young fellow to spend several hours a day writing blogs, working Facebook, Trip Adviser, and posting good news about Los Cabos, including pictures and stories about our vigilante program. If we start this program right now we can turn our reputation from bad to good by the start of next season.

BajaBruno - 4-1-2010 at 11:29 PM

Desperate times call for desperate measures. I certainly hope a baby has been born, for both the businesses and the visitors. It's good to see that the former is finally seeing the value in the latter.

JESSE - 4-1-2010 at 11:59 PM

Its simple folks, you want to ruin a tourist town, fill it with chilangos, a whole bunch of workers from the mainland, and trow in a bunch of money hungry foreigners and you have the perfect recipe for destruction.

If they really want to help Cabo, they should pack their bags and move.

cabobaja - 4-2-2010 at 08:08 AM

It is just not the chilango blue collar workers, it is the white collar doctors, lawyers, real estate agents and brokers, etc.

bajabass - 4-2-2010 at 09:14 AM

Cabo used to be a convienent, quick flight away from the BS that is SoCal. Now it is just as bad as OC, if not worse. This has happened all over Mexico. A beautiful place is discovered by the masses, then the madness begins. For me Cabo is no longer a destination. Anyone want to buy my timeshare at Pueblo Bonita Rose? I'll be trading my weeks now.

mtgoat666 - 4-2-2010 at 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gaucho
Waiters steal credit card numbers and buy merchandise on it before our tourists even get home. Waiters pad bills. The waiters at Senor Frogs are actually picking pockets of cruise ship visitors. Dozens of times a day the police pull drivers over and frighten them into giving them money. The federal police commonly work the highway to the airport, taking the passport from the visitor, and threatening they will miss their plane if they do not give the police money. The tourist police can not be expected to police the police, they are on the same team and have to get along with them.

The police in downtown Cabo San Lucas constantly prey on foreigners, picking them up late at night and threatening to plant drugs on them if they don’t give them money. The city police also are known to force tourists to go to an ATM and draw out hundreds of dollars to give to them. Many of the gas stations, especially those close to the airport, short change the tourists who drive rental cars. Many times doctors and clinics extort large amounts of money from our visitors, and if they resist, the police are
hired by the hospitals to scare the money out of the foreigners. Many doctors will not sign the documents necessary by insurance companies to air evacuate a foreigner out of the country until they are paid thousands of dollars in extortion. And where can these foreigners turn to? The law? The law is the problem. One foreigner, a Realtor in Cabo San Lucas, went to the Ministerio Publico for help and the Ministerio Publico told him he could make the problem would go away if he were given $40,000 pesos! Extortion by what we would call the district attorney’s office!
The government is the problem.

is the problem as bad as portrayed in editorial?

the solution for locals may be to create a blacklist of all government officials and businesses that are preying on tourists.

the solution for tourists is to take your vacation elsewhere.

Poor Carrie

Dave - 4-2-2010 at 09:37 AM

The girl just doesn't know how to keep her mouth shut.

Looks like she's gonna get kicked out of Mexico...

Again. :rolleyes:

bajajazz - 4-2-2010 at 09:50 AM

If business is so poor, why is the Gringo Gazette regularly boasting about the increased number of pigeons being flown into SJD and posting hard-to-believe estimates of the dollars spent by cruise ship tourists? I don't get it, there's a disconnect there somewhere.

Tourist traps -- and this includes Fisherman's Wharf in my once-beloved San Francisco -- always treat their customers like they're Kleenex . . . use them once and throw them away.

My own sons will no longer fly into SJD when they visit because they invariably get effed when they rent a car. The final bill is usually about three times what they were quoted.

Naive is not a word I'd ever use to describe Carrie Duncan, but I'm afraid she's deluding herself if she thinks there's anything we expatriates can do to change the business culture in Mexico . . . or anywhere else, to be fair. The only thing sociopathic greedheads pay attention to is the bottom line, and that goes for the scumbags on Wall Street as much as it does meseros in Cabo.

The one thing ordinary people can do is vote with their feet, and apparently that's what we're doing.

vandenberg - 4-2-2010 at 11:02 AM

Again, poor Carrie will not even be a runnerup in the Mexican popularity contest. But her sh#t apparently sells papers.

arrowhead - 4-2-2010 at 11:56 AM

Carrie Duncan is Fulano.

I Was Thinking The Same Thing

Bajahowodd - 4-2-2010 at 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave
The girl just doesn't know how to keep her mouth shut.

Looks like she's gonna get kicked out of Mexico...

Again. :rolleyes:

If memory serves me, it's only been four, maybe five years since she ventured back down there. And seemingly, she had learned her lesson. But as Gaucho noted, she and David invested a ton of money into that club and boutique hotel. And, frankly, even in the best of times, their location seems to work against it being profitable.

That said, and while I concur with many who mourn the loss of the simpler, quieter Cabo, in the 20+ years that I've traveled there regularly, I can honestly say that I had only one untoward incident. It was minor. They changed direction on a number of one way street downtown, and a cop pulled me over for going the wrong way. I did note that there were no directional arrows in sight. He wanted money. I told him I didn't have my wallet with me, and he said, adios.

The picture Carrie paints is not the place I've encountered. Although I must agree with Jesse that when they import lots of folks from the mainland, they are going to bring bad habits with them. But, looking back a couple of decades, there was no one there to do the work.

Bajahowodd - 4-2-2010 at 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by arrowhead
Carrie Duncan is Fulano.

[Edited on 4-2-2010 by Bajahowodd]

mtgoat666 - 4-2-2010 at 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by arrowhead
Carrie Duncan is Fulano.

arrowhead,
why do you keep trying to throw us off?
you are fulano (and nancy at times).

MitchMan - 4-2-2010 at 03:19 PM

Trying to fix Cabo's problems with volunteers is a pipe dream, albeit well intentioned. You can't fix the corrupt government, faulty systems, corrupt cops, greedy thieving locals and merchants with volunteers placed there by small business interests. The problem is too insidious and ingrained for mere volunteers to correct.

It's a cultural thing. You have to fix that culture and that simply cannot be done, even in one generation's time. To fix the culture there has to be a persistant collective will of the people to do so. That "collective will" does not exist, and as far as I have observed, has not ever existed in my life time. Also, I agree with CaboBaja, the bad behavior (cultural malaise, in my opinion) exists ever so strongly in the white collar community to the exact same extent as with the blue collar and peasant stratas of Mexican society.

Bajahowodd - 4-2-2010 at 03:28 PM

I have a slightly different take on it. Think about Cancun and the Riviera Maya. Despite the fact that it is a larger development, there are fewer complaints than one finds in Cabo. I'm thinking that despite the proliferation of mom and pop time share owners, an underlying cause for the greed and unethical behavior rests with the ultra ritzy resorts that have been built that attract a panoply of high end business people and the Hollywood types. It's sort of a quid pro quo.

monoloco - 4-3-2010 at 06:16 AM

One dynamic that I have observed in Los Cabos is that given it's reputation for being party central, a lot of the tourists who go there are just looking to get stupid. It starts on the plane on the way down and they hit the ground drunk with absolutely no cultural sensibilities, given that, it's not hard to understand why some of the Mexicans that live there have little respect for them. I call this gringo fatigue. It's easy for me to understand given the intolerable behavior of many of the visitors there. If you don't respect your clients it becomes easy to abuse them.

[Edited on 4-3-2010 by monoloco]

wilderone - 4-3-2010 at 08:10 AM

Don't read Carrie's article with a jaundiced eye - she is absolutely right and you know it. She's pointing a finger at the government hoping that they'[ll be shamed into action - it's no secret anymore where the problem lies. I hope they don't target her for retaliation. Her idea has merit, although it will signify a war between them and the govt - the govt has guns, so I dunno .... !!
It's time for Cabo to reinvest itself - but it will take a lot of policia prosecution. The federal government needs to be that vigilante group - on the scene to take tourist reports of abuse and swift action against the perpetrators.
Cabo has developed itself into the snake pit that it is now. That needs to be recognized, and local action taken to turn things around. Town meetings with everyone involved and bring the issues out in the open.

No change, same old same old

bajajazz - 4-3-2010 at 10:29 AM

Amazing, isn't it, that ordinary people still think they have the power to change anything? Those days are long over, if they ever existed at all, that is.

Reeljob - 4-3-2010 at 12:46 PM

We have a couple of condo's in Cabo, one right downtown on the Marina. Just spent 2 weeks and never experienced any of the nasty things indictated here.

Drive everywhere, do all the things I would do at home, change oil at Formula Uno, shop at Walmart or Costco or Home Depot etc. etc.

Of course, we do not stay at the Gazette outratiously expensive hotel or eat at the even more expensive restaurant so may be that's the kind of place all this stuff is happening.

Bajahowodd - 4-3-2010 at 01:07 PM

Carrie identified two issues. The first one involved dishonest or criminal behavior by employees of local businesses, one of which mentioned is part of a large international chain (Grupo Anderson). It would seem to me that word of mouth, as well as preventative warnings by both hotel management and cruise ship operators would serve to apply pressure on the owners of those businesses, by steering customers away. The other problem, crooked cops, is something I just can't see being remedied without government intervention.

That said, just like Reeljob, I have never encountered any such activities in all the time I've spent in Cabo.

gnukid - 4-3-2010 at 01:47 PM

[Edited on 4-4-2010 by gnukid]

Bajahowodd - 4-3-2010 at 02:10 PM

If by downtown Cabo, you are referring to Lazaro Card##as and Boulevard Marina, geez. I've prowled those streets from Squid Roe to Mi Casa, and down to the marina. I guess, I didn't know those guys in the time share booths were offering more than a free breakfast!

k-rico - 4-3-2010 at 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by gnukid
You must know there are countless legal stripclubs, houses of prostitution, sex hotels, most people standing on the street past 2pm are accosting passerbys to buy contraband and traffic sex.

OK, so how many Nomad bachelors are planning a trip to TJ in the tropics now?

Bajahowodd - 4-3-2010 at 02:31 PM

It depends on whether your use of the word "romance" is euphemistic. Getting back to Carrie's rant- and it obviously depends upon one's personal morality, but there are two types of crime that you are referring to. People being solicited for prostitution and/ or illicit drugs can make a choice. Should they opt for one or the other, one may consider that a victimless crime occurred. On the other hand, when one's credit card is cloned, or their pocket is picked, or they are extorted for money by the cops, that's a horse of a different color. And, as k-rico implied, there are plenty of folks who seek the goods and services illicitly offered.

BajaBlanca - 4-3-2010 at 02:36 PM

who was professor Agundez ???? what did he do?

also, please tell me about the UN PROGRAM LIMPIEZA

interesting idea aobut 7% being able to make a difference. STORY: My family is from Brazil and it is a gorgeous country with huge trash problems. That being said, years ago, my mom came to visit me in La Bocana and made the following comment: Blanca, this is one of the dirtiest and ugliest places I have ever seen. I was devastated and realized she was right. Our house is at the edge of twon. Gorgeous beach. Gorgeous view. Quiet and spotless but .....the rest of the village was indeed horrid so....... I started a cleaning program called UNA BOCANA LIMPIA. for the first year, I swear, it was me myself and I cleaning up the sandy, trashy, filthy-looking community. Now, everyone is taking care of their yard AND a little more (which was my goal=empty lots, streets...). The change is perceptible and documented on my webpage:

http://sites.google.com/site/cleaningupbaja/

Now my challenge is getting a EIR so we can get a proper landfill. Two years of begging and talking and sending petitions to the governor - presidente municapal - freinds have gotten me NOWHERE. (dare I ask ? If you can help, pls let me know).

The whole point being, it is easy to be pessimistic, it is much harder to start a grassroots program that effectively faces and deals with your reality head-on. I think the Neighborhood Watch program in the states is an example. the volunteer firefighters another. the retired police patrol cars another.

It is not possible that every police officer in Baja is corrupt. And would not feel outraged :fire:

to know that customers are being pick pocketed in bars. Robbed by cabdrivers. After all, if there are not tourists, eventually their jobs will be at stake as well, right ????

Happy Easter everyone. Wishing those in Cabo esp. a safe holiday

JESSE - 4-4-2010 at 11:46 AM

The same moneypeople from cabo who are now complaining, where in bed with the corrupt state goverment until the recession hit. The same moneypeople who are now complaining, elect corrupt tourism and tourist and restaurant organization leaders.

They destroyed that town, the business owners that kissed goverment a** for years and looked the other way, the chilango professionals who try to make everything look and feel like DF and are totally ignorant of the real needs of the tourist and the future of the town, the oaxacan, michoacan, guerrero workers who come here and act like little monkeys screwing people left and right for a few dollars, and off course, the goverment idiots who are one of the worst planners in all of Mexico.

If cabo business owners truly want a change, they should put their $$$ where their mouth is. Support the political opposition to the ruling party and end this disaster. Everything else, is just bull.

BajaBlanca - 4-4-2010 at 12:07 PM

Jesse: who do you recommend politically and why ? I am completely out of the loop in politics, but am very interested in learning .... after all, we live here now and should be in the know.

Two sides of the same coin

Dave - 4-4-2010 at 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JESSE
If cabo business owners truly want a change, they should put their $$$ where their mouth is. Support the political opposition to the ruling party and end this disaster. Everything else, is just bull.

My observation has been that one political party is as corrupt as the next. The only difference between PRI and Pan is that PRI is more up-front about it.

What leads you to believe that a political change will make any difference?

Wait - Carrie Duncan is Losing Money?

Gypsy Jan - 4-4-2010 at 01:24 PM

Because of corruption, theft and general disregard for moral and ethical business practices in Cabo?

I call that karma.

[Edited on 4-4-2010 by Gypsy Jan]

gnukid - 4-4-2010 at 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BajaBlanca
who was professor Agundez ???? what did he do?

also, please tell me about the UN PROGRAM LIMPIEZA

interesting idea aobut 7% being able to make a difference. STORY: My family is from Brazil and it is a gorgeous country with huge trash problems. That being said, years ago, my mom came to visit me in La Bocana and made the following comment: Blanca, this is one of the dirtiest and ugliest places I have ever seen. I was devastated and realized she was right. Our house is at the edge of twon. Gorgeous beach. Gorgeous view. Quiet and spotless but .....the rest of the village was indeed horrid so....... I started a cleaning program called UNA BOCANA LIMPIA. for the first year, I swear, it was me myself and I cleaning up the sandy, trashy, filthy-looking community. Now, everyone is taking care of their yard AND a little more (which was my goal=empty lots, streets...). The change is perceptible and documented on my webpage:

http://sites.google.com/site/cleaningupbaja/

Now my challenge is getting a EIR so we can get a proper landfill. Two years of begging and talking and sending petitions to the governor - presidente municapal - freinds have gotten me NOWHERE. (dare I ask ? If you can help, pls let me know).

The whole point being, it is easy to be pessimistic, it is much harder to start a grassroots program that effectively faces and deals with your reality head-on. I think the Neighborhood Watch program in the states is an example. the volunteer firefighters another. the retired police patrol cars another.

It is not possible that every police officer in Baja is corrupt. And would not feel outraged :fire:

You can find about Professor Agundez by doing a little research, he began teaching at the age 18 years old and initiated a cultural and natural exchange program sending and receiving specimens around the world.

The program limpieza has been started to clean up garbage in neighborhoods and to recycle, reuse and compost. The program involves outreach, education, families, fun and sports.

The garbage collected is brought by dump truck to an existing dump, metal is removed and sold, cans, bottles etc... organic material is separated from inorganic and whereever possible the garbage is reduced to only those items which can not be reused, generally far less than the initial pile. The cost is paid for by either donations or profits from the cans, metal and bottles.

In La Paz there exists an effort to place garbage cans for organic and inorganic materials, of course few know the difference as it can be confusing, and more so there is no clear info provided on the cans and they similar so there is room for improvement there. As we improve the organic material is considered very valuable for compost which is extremely important for cultivation in the desert.

I find it's possible to place a small amount of organic material mixed in pots of sandy material and plants will grow quite well. I cover the surface as well with composted leaves.

In most BCS cities you see locations set up now to gather cans and bottles locally usually on main streets in a simple fashion with a trailer or temporary storage and high chain link fence to hold the materials. I will attach the local fliers to this note. If not anyone can set this up and put a simple sign, passerbys will soon find it easy to dump cans and bottles there and these can be sold to recyclers by the liter.

[Edited on 4-4-2010 by gnukid]

recycle.jpg - 40kB

JESSE - 4-4-2010 at 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BajaBlanca
Jesse: who do you recommend politically and why ? I am completely out of the loop in politics, but am very interested in learning .... after all, we live here now and should be in the know.

Its too early to say, candidates for the different parties will be elected in a few more months.

I forgot to add, i would rather vote for a monkey in a bicycle than to vote for such incompetent and completely corrupt goverment we have here.

If your a Mexican citizen, next elections get out and vote, vote for anyone, except the PRD-PT scumbags that have this state kidnapped.

[Edited on 4-5-2010 by JESSE]

JESSE - 4-4-2010 at 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave

Quote:

Trust me Dave, you are fortunate to live with the PAN or PRI up there, the PRD down here is downright scary. I have never seen such corrupt and incompetent goverment in my life. It makes the PAN up there seem like a good goverment.

Considering the dealings I've had with both PRI and Pan...

Dave - 4-4-2010 at 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JESSE
I have never seen such corrupt and incompetent goverment in my life. It makes the PAN up there seem like a good goverment.

That IS scary. :rolleyes:

jeans - 4-5-2010 at 12:31 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by monoloco
One dynamic that I have observed in Los Cabos is that given it's reputation for being party central, a lot of the tourists who go there are just looking to get stupid. It starts on the plane on the way down and they hit the ground drunk with absolutely no cultural sensibilities.

I've seen that. I was sitting in the bar drinking coffee before my 9:30 AM flight to Los Cabos when a group of about 7-8 friends came in all pumped up...going to "Cabo" Woo-HOO..buying bloody Marys all round..including for me...
I could hear the party from the opposite end of the plane and they were sloshed by the time we arrived.

slimshady - 4-5-2010 at 11:16 AM

The issue is that many in the Los Cabos area thought that Gringos were loaded with money. The recession proved that their belief was wrong. Those inviduals were those invloved in the tourist industry as well as real estate. Those parties included U.S. ex pats and mex nationals. It was basically and still is the wild west with half ass regulations and corrupt authorities. This is the type of environment that crooks thrive in.
We must change their attitudes and weed out the crooks by not spending money in places and doing things that involve those people.
Time to bring them down to reality.

Bajahowodd - 4-5-2010 at 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by jeans

Quote:

However, Cabo does not hold a monopoly on such behavior. There are scores of what are considered "party destinations" around the world, and typically, spring break is the high water mark. I remember flying LAX to Cancun several years ago on Alaska. There was a group of six young women who I first noticed at a bar in the terminal before the flight. I had the dubious fortune to be seated just behind them on the long flight. It was a time when virtually all international flights had an open bar policy. These women started with c-cktails, and graduated to champagne as the flight progressed. Upon landing in Cancun, they could barely stand. And that was their condition upon arrival!

monoloco - 4-5-2010 at 03:21 PM

My point was that bad gringo behavior breeds the contempt of the locals. However, a lot of the bad behavior is the fault of the local business community who, in their short sightedness, decided to market the place as an over the top party place, which, as we have seen, draws many undesirable people to the area. It would have been much better for their livability and long term growth if they would have tried to develop in a more family friendly and wholesome way. Now I'm afraid they are doomed to be a cheesy, collection of fast food, strip malls, and all night discos. I feel kind of insulted by some of the locals there because I can tell by the way they they respond to me that they must think all gringos are stupid, clueless, drunken fools. But then again, given the caliber of tourist in Los Cabos, they are probably mostly correct in that assumption.

[Edited on 4-5-2010 by monoloco]

Bajahowodd - 4-5-2010 at 04:53 PM

loco- Perhaps the Vegas experiment could offer some educational information. For decades, Vegas marketed itself as an adults playground. Some years back, they decided to re-invent themselves as a family-oriented destination. Perhaps the first example of that was Circus Circus which opened back in the late 80's. They then went on to build amusement parks, Etc. Bottom line is that if you look at Vegas today, their primary marketing is toward adults. I make no value judgment here. But aside from perhaps the Dolphin attraction, and except for some all-inclusives, Cabo does not appear to be focusing on families.

805gregg - 4-5-2010 at 04:55 PM

Cabo was great the first time I was there but that was 1973, it's been downhill ever since. The last time my wife and drove down we went as far south as Todos, but no further. I would avoid Cabo all together now.

Bajahowodd - 4-5-2010 at 05:01 PM

I hear that alot. I have my own take on it. Obviously, there are sufficient numbers of folks who look forward to spending way too much money for the opportunity to spend time there. As someone who knows Cabo for several decades, I wonder if there's anyone on this forum who may be familiar with the growth of Cancun, and what their feeling are about that; as a comparison.

tripledigitken - 4-5-2010 at 05:07 PM

I feel pretty much the same way 805greg. My first visit was in 1979 and I thought I had found paradise. In three visits since it has become everything I dispise in a resort destination. The last time (2005) I just drove right on through and spent the night in Todos Santos. I'll bet it's gotten worse not better in the last 5 years!

It have been over developed with no sense of overall planning. The downtown is like Disneyland for tweekers. Different strokes etc., but honestly the joy of going down there is gone for this traveler.

Sad for it to happen to such a beautiful location.

Ken

capt. mike - 4-5-2010 at 05:14 PM

Ken i am headed there this week, sunday 11th for one nite only.
i'll give you a report... :biggrin:

i am pretty much in agreement - no the place i'd go if i had to pay.
but i ain't paying so have no choice but to put up with it....oh well, some one has to suffer, might as well be me.
i do know a few good bars i discovered in 2007 so i aint's complaining too much now. :!:

and there is great eatin at a few choice restaurants. Is the "trailer park" still good??

monoloco - 4-5-2010 at 05:20 PM

I went through Mazatlan a few years ago and it seemed like it was a victim of it's own success, an example of what happens to a tourist town that has outlived it's popularity. I couldn't get out of there fast enough. I am seeing the same signs in Cabo San Lucas. A tourist destination needs to offer more than partying and craziness to get people to want to return, they are never going to survive if they just have the reputation as a spring break location for college kids.

mtgoat666 - 4-5-2010 at 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by tripledigitken
I feel pretty much the same way 805greg. My first visit was in 1979 and I thought I had found paradise. In three visits since it has become everything I dispise in a resort destination. The last time (2005) I just drove right on through and spent the night in Todos Santos. I'll bet it's gotten worse not better in the last 5 years!

It have been over developed with no sense of overall planning. The downtown is like Disneyland for tweekers. Different strokes etc., but honestly the joy of going down there is gone for this traveler.

Sad for it to happen to such a beautiful location.

Ken

people always say same thing, no matter where in the world "...it was better way back then,..."

people over 45 should not be allowed to ever say "...it was better way back then,..."

if we project this back 400 years (16 generations), was everyplace 16 times better? no, it was 1600s and there was no such thing as medicine, sanitation, iphone, snickers bar or costco-with-free-samples.

old people should be seen and not heard :lol:

k-rico - 4-5-2010 at 07:58 PM

Plaza las Glorias is what destroyed downtown Cabo for me. Before that it was great to sit at the bars and restaurants along the main drag and see out across the harbor.

JESSE - 4-5-2010 at 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mtgoat666

Quote:

not true at all, 15 yrs ago visitors to cabo wanted to buy property and live there. its what fueled the real estate an time share boom. these days most visitors to cabo over 25 (wich is the ones that matter) don't want to ever come back.

that is fact.

Bajahowodd - 4-6-2010 at 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by capt. mike
Ken i am headed there this week, sunday 11th for one nite only.
i'll give you a report... :biggrin:

and there is great eatin at a few choice restaurants. Is the "trailer park" still good??

Mike- If you're referring to " the Original Trailer Park", many blocks up off the main drag, don't bother. The folks who started that, and then opened a second location at La Golodrina sold both properties. Their erstwhile and prodigal son in law, Lenny has opened a restaurant right across from La Golodrina. I believe he calls it "The Original ParK". Not certain about all the family issues, but as I recall, Lenny married the owner's daughter, but there was a falling out of some kind. Anyway, Lenny claims that he "stole" all the best of the cooks and the wait staff from the other restaurants to work in his place. If you've met Lenny, you would know that one must take anything he says with a grain of salt. That said, we found the food there quite good, but over-priced.

No Kidding

Bajahowodd - 4-6-2010 at 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by k-rico
Plaza las Glorias is what destroyed downtown Cabo for me. Before that it was great to sit at the bars and restaurants along the main drag and see out across the harbor.

Oh yes. Back in the day. It is somewhat ironic that the Plaza Las Glorias turned out to be such a white elephant, having since gone through two changes of ownership. Stories are rampant about the shoddy construction in that facility. The building and it's adjacent properties not only cut off the view from the places on Bl Marina, but also cut off the breeze. It took many years, but the whole marina area has been upgraded, and sadly, folk coming off cruise ships more likely than not limit their activity to the area around the marina and that obscene shopping mall.

Cypress - 4-6-2010 at 04:37 PM

You have to pay for parking at the local grocery store. :biggrin:

Bajahowodd - 4-6-2010 at 04:41 PM

Blame Aramburo and the fact that they've made virtually all surrounding streets red curbs.

[Edited on 4-6-2010 by Bajahowodd]

Reeljob - 4-6-2010 at 07:04 PM

I respect all of you folks "take on things", but, if all you do is spend a few days here and there, then only talk about your home turf.

Some you live in Cabo (or nearby), some of you spend a few days in the area, but listen to folks like Jesse, Bajajudy, Pam. etc......

Maybe start of blog about your home tty. Phoenix, San Dieo, Detroit...................

JESSE - 4-6-2010 at 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Reeljob
I respect all of you folks "take on things", but, if all you do is spend a few days here and there, then only talk about your home turf.

Some you live in Cabo (or nearby), some of you spend a few days in the area, but listen to folks like Jesse, Bajajudy, Pam. etc......

Maybe start of blog about your home tty. Phoenix, San Dieo, Detroit...................

capt. mike - 4-6-2010 at 07:32 PM

yeah Jesse.....dittos :?:

Bajahowodd - 4-7-2010 at 03:39 PM

About Detroit..............

bajabass - 4-7-2010 at 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajahowodd
About Detroit..............

I left Michigan in 1973 and have never gone back!!! :bounce:

jak - 4-8-2010 at 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by arrowhead
Carrie Duncan is Fulano.

fulana

osoflojo - 4-9-2010 at 11:02 AM

It is amazing to me how many people still drink Carries "Kool Aid" after all these years. She never "got" Cabo the first time and obviously after she returned from being PNG'ed she has not learned anything the second time either. Reeljob is right in that those of us who go about our day to day routines in Cabo seldom see what is being overreported here. Bajajudy used to say something like "quit *itchin about Cabo, just stay home and leave the rest of us alone" (paraphrasing of course). I say Amen to that.................

RussReynolds - 4-9-2010 at 02:23 PM

As someone who moved to SJDC a few weeks ago, this discussion is very interesting.

I have not experienced anything yet. Last weekend we rented and drove a car to La Paz and back with no problems.

This coming weekend I have to rent a car and pick somebody up at the airport and after reading this thread I am concerned about getting 'jacked up' by the local policia. Any advice on how to handle it? I was not going to bring my passport - just leave it at my condo.

Should I pay? I don't want to but I don't want to go to jail either.

Thanks for your advice.

Russ

PS - I am not paranoid - I wouldn't be here if I was, I just feel that I haven't got my street smarts here yet.

CaboRon - 4-9-2010 at 04:39 PM

Quote:

Maybe you should stop dictating what others write .

Bajahowodd - 4-9-2010 at 05:30 PM

Chill, my man. Anyone who is a late comer to Los Cabos, likely doesn't understand that there are many who were there, regularly, or on and off when it was a small fishing village. Perhaps, you have no clue what it was like back in the day. That said, for better or for worse, it is now something akin to Cancun, and the folks who valued what Cabo was like 30-40 years ago, just need to take a pill, because it is what it is.