BajaNomad - dt's excellent immigration adventure

dt's excellent immigration adventure

dtbushpilot - 5-12-2010 at 09:09 PM

Ok, before I start the story I need to make one thing clear: It was all my fault, I'm not blaming anyone for my "adventure" but myself.

Names will not be used to protect the innocent and uninformed. I will refer to my representative as "my guy" and any immigration official as "img", that way I don't have to type as much. That said, lets get to the adventure!

Mi esopsa bonita and my fm2"s were to expire on the 20th of April which would put us under the past renewal rules. We had planned to be there around the first of the month so we would have plenty of time.

As it turned out, because of a medical issue we weren't able to leave when we wanted. When I talked to my guy he said "no problem" you can send them to me if you want and I'll send them back when I get them (done that before, want to avoid it), or we can do them when you come down and you'll just have to pay a fine. Be sure you don't let them get past 30 days expired. I told him that I could probably come down but Jill couldn't. No problem, we can get hers done too. I asked about the new rules as it would likely be after the first of May before I got there and would have to turn around and go back within a few days. No problem, you can get a "paper" to travel and I'll keep your stuff here till you get back he replied.

So, down there I went, stopped in and talked to my gal at the office on Monday the 3rd, she said my guy could see me on Wednesday, I told her I needed to go back home so I needed to get this done now. She said "jew worry too much Daveed, come back on Tuesday and your guy will meet you then. Yea, you're probably right, what's to worry about in Baja, especially when dealing with immigration issues.....

So, back I came on Tuesday (4th) and met my guy. Had all papers in order and handed them over, signed on lines and started the wheels turning. My guy says it can't happen tomorrow because its Cinco de Mayo, the day that Mexico mourns the sinking of the Titanic and the loss of thousands of cases of mayonnaise that were headed for Mexico, such a tragedy.

On Thursday I called my guy, not so good news. Can't get Jill's done, must be here in person to renew so if she can't come before 30 days expired (she can't) hers will be automatically cancelled. Good news is that I can pay an 800 peso fine for being late and get mine renewed......but can't get it for 10 days....and no "paper" for traveling without it so you have to stay here.....for 10 days.....mas o meno...

Well, that won't work. I have to be home in San Diego on Tuesday night so Monday morning is my latest departure time. I'd really like to be legal and have some sort of "paper" in case I have a wreck, get asked for my "papers" ( I may be the victim of racial profiling), or otherwise run afoul of the law. What can we do I asked? Well, we can cancel yours too and they will give you a "paper" to legally travel out of the country came the reply.

This is when I know that this won't end well....I guess deep inside I knew it would end badly before I even headed South. Will I lose the 2 years that I have toward my citizenship? Yes. Will I still have to pay an 800 peso fine? No, it will be 1600 because you have to pay for Jill too. Of course, I knew that, silly me. Meet me Monday morning at 9:00 at the Immigration office and we will get it done, you will have your "paper" and you can be on your way. Can I re-apply for my fm2 when I return I asked? Sure he replied, don't worry Daveed, everything will be ok.........

So, Monday morning rolls around and I arrive at the Immigration office a bit early. There are several Americanos patiently waiting to get their stuff taken care of. My guy shows up and we go to the window. There was lots of shuffling of papers, proof of fine paying, signing on lines, stamping, more signing, more talking in Spanish and even more stamping.....then the first glitch....the guy that needs to wave his wand over my request isn't there. It is Dia de la Madre and he took his wife and Mother to breakfast but will be here in a while. I'm happy for him to be able to take his mother to breakfast and don't mind waiting.

While waiting I eavesdrop on some of the conversations around me. One guy has completed his 5 year requirement for Immigrado status and has all his stuff ready to go. He's excited that he can put this yearly requirement behind him. He arrives at the window and hands over his file to the img guy who looks it over and says "new rules, got to apply on line" and points to a "paper" taped to the wall that explains the new requirement. Apparently all requests and forms have to be filled out on the web site, printed out and brought in to the img office.......no, really.... What about the people that don't have computers he asked? Img just shrugged his shoulders and pointed at the sign again. The Americano looked like a balloon that the air was slowly leaking out of as he walked dejectedly away. The same basic scenario played out time and again as I waited.

After a time the "Jefe" shows up and the img gal takes my papers back to get the magic wand passed over them. I assumed that this would be the hardest part of the process but I was soon to find out otherwise. The img came back to the window and my guy went over to get my highly anticipated "paper". I could see them talking and their facial expressions and body language told me that something was wrong. After a time my guy motioned for me to come to the window so the the img gal could give me some bad news (he didn't want to have to tell me himself).

The nice lady gave me her best sorrowful smile and said " today is Dia de la Madre and the ladies that type the "papers" have the day off so you will have to come back tomorrow to get one. Everything else is done so it will just take a few minutes tomorrow morning and you can have your "paper"...

I heard her words trail off but wasn't sure I heard her right. Could it really be possible that there wasn't someone who could type 2 lines on a piece of paper so that the Jefe could sign and stamp it? An awkward silence followed then I replied: ummmmmm.....uhhhhhh......what? Is there really nobody here that can type a few lines on a page today? No she replied, the ladies that do the typing aren't here today....

I slowly shuffled my way to the door and stepped out into the bright Baja sunlight. I stood there on the sidewalk for a bit, noticed an Aguila bus rumbling down the main drag and for a fleeting moment considered stepping out in front of it. No, I thought, I'm not going to let them ruin my day (yea right). I'm not waiting till tomorrow either, I'm outta here.

Well, I made it home safely, nobody asked for my "paper". As it turns out I could have stayed home and gotten just as much accomplished.......well, I guess that's not true, I did get my cell phone registered and my personal info sold at the flea market.........

It's going to be interesting to see what happens in a few months when I try to re-apply for our fm2's.......pray for me.....dt

Russ - 5-13-2010 at 06:12 AM

Jeeze! That is one of the saddest stories about Baja I have ever heard

No. really that is "back to the way it was" thing. I could really never understand how "img" who's job is to work with the tourist could figure out how to invent so many ways to not to get the job done. Could this be that when the US immigration policy changes are favorable things happen much smoother and when the US has a tantrum so do our friends at migracion?
I wish you mucho luck with your next img adventure!
Edit:
During all the did you hear anything about inmigrado status? Since it's just a page in the FM-2 book we'll probably have to do the dance too. :?:

[Edited on 5-13-2010 by Russ]

capt. mike - 5-13-2010 at 06:19 AM

Dave you have the patience of Jobe.

Can't wait till i get to experience similar bureaucratic spifnificence my self in baja as i approach the live here/live there crossroad. :wow:

Osprey - 5-13-2010 at 07:21 AM

Dave, there are a million stories in the Naked City. I saw an older couple in Cabo who were moving from La Paz to Cabo and were told they needed to change IMG offices. They were there on the last day of their permits and the agent said "We have to have the files from La Paz -- you have about 3 hours to go get them so you better hurry."

Another guy I met made 10 trips to renew his FM3 over a problem with his wife/marriage cert from North Africa. He was told he needed the cert translated to Spanish. He asked them for the name and number of a recognized translator. The guy said "No, you find one, have it done. Then we will decide."

It is amazing to me the difference between the treatment given by one office over another -- they each seem to have their own reputation and very well earned for being helpful or inept or corrupt. The new card rules change everything for the pericos who help the gringos who can afford their services -- with the internet and the cards they will all be forced to invent some moves only the pericos can perform that you can't. It will happen -- mark my words.

BillP - 5-13-2010 at 07:52 AM

Just curious, was there at any time the option of a little mordita to get it pushed through? Might have been worth it.

shari - 5-13-2010 at 07:52 AM

Dios Mio! so typical indeed.
I LOVED your prose...just wish it was one of Osprey's "stories" and not a "based on a true story" movie. I could just picture you there in your casual, patient mode that you are famous for....I feel your pain brother.

However...the "guy" may have been able to figure something out if he was good...my "guy" has accomplished superhuman feats right up there with "able to leap tall buildings at a single bound" type things in the img office. Creative thinking outside the box is a survival trait for agents.

This little ditty may make you feel better....picture this....I fly to Mexico City to get my citizenship papers...big expense...and as you described...my guy up there at the window and way to much head shaking going on...glances over at me etc....and my guy in DF says....sorry Shari...they put an "Y" instead of an "I" on your marriage certificate so you have to go back to the place you were married and get them to change it....then come back to DF with the corrected certificate....WTF????
So all teary eyed, I call my "guy" in La Paz and ask him to pick me up at the airport as I was coming home empty handed...when like the champion he is...he says....stay put....and call me in 2 hours. My return plane ticket was for the next afternoon. I was beyond sad....it had taken me nearly 10 years to get to this point and I was so ecstatic it was nearly done...I was soooo close.

2 hours later, the miracle worker guy says....no problema amiga...done deal...someone waved a magic wand over my marriage certificate...guess they have a copy of it in the central registry...and voila! the spelling error was corrected....(funny thing is that the reason it was spelled wrong was that immigration spelled it wrong one year on my FM# booklet and instead of issueing a new one, they just made an amendment on a page with the correct spelling...man oh man...)

Of course I had my doubts as the clock was ticking the next morning...a friday of course...I was to pick up the corrected document that was air freighted overnight and was to appear at 10:00 that morning...of course it didnt!!! Talk about panic attack...it did finally arrive late....my guy in DF zoomed us over to the office....he's very very good...we leap out of his car...he throws his keys to some guy...he walks to the front of the line...smiling(he rarely smiles) and after the required loud stamping and signing....I've got the "PAPER".....he then zooms me to the airport and I actually make my flight...sorry for the happy ending amigo...but you get the picture...a good GUY is tantamount here in mexico.

I'm gonna ask my guy if he can help you.

Russ - 5-13-2010 at 08:07 AM

Shari, While you are asking would you ask if us inmigrado folks need to do anything?

durrelllrobert - 5-13-2010 at 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by dtbushpilot
Ok, before I start the story I need to make one thing clear: It was all my fault, I'm not blaming anyone for my "adventure" but myself.

dt

Are you sure there isn't someway that you can blame George Bush :?:

dtbushpilot - 5-13-2010 at 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by durrelllrobert

Quote:

Originally posted by dtbushpilot
Ok, before I start the story I need to make one thing clear: It was all my fault, I'm not blaming anyone for my "adventure" but myself.

dt

Are you sure there isn't someway that you can blame George Bush :?:

No, can't blame him, or Obama for that matter, not even Calderone. I'm the one that wanted citizenship and I'm the one that let my fm2 expire. I also know that it will always be something with img, I would guess that Immigration problems are just as frustrating for immigrants North of the border.......dt

shari - 5-13-2010 at 08:45 AM

You are soooo right about there always being something or other wrong. The first time I went to get my citizenship....i got sent home because there wasnt 6 months left on my fm3...sheesh...so much fine print.
And once when I was on the last year of my fm3 before I was an imigrado...my years aquired got cancelled cause I married juan and moved to asuncion so when I no longer worked for the university, I dutifully wrote a letter to immigration stating my change of status...change of address, change of marital status etc etc...but a year later a rather aggressive img man came and said my years were cancelled because the university failed to write a letter saying I no longer worked there...who'da thunk????
it is so frustrating sometimes....so buyer beware....and get a good "guy"!

one last word to the wise....make sure you do your renewals with LOTS of time to spare for screw ups.

monoloco - 5-13-2010 at 09:07 AM

Sometimes I think that they have some kind of inter-office bet on how many times they can make you come back in for just one more thing.

capt. mike - 5-13-2010 at 09:36 AM

just curious... on the citizenship thing - Dave - why do you want one?
what is the advantage? can't you just be a legal resident alien?

dtbushpilot - 5-13-2010 at 01:07 PM

I was hoping it would make property ownership and transfer easier. We have 4 properties in MX with fide's. Also, we spend the majority of our time in MX now so it seems like the right thing to do, embrace the customs, learn the language etc. Maybe we should reconsider the advantages, if there are any.......dt

Keri - 5-13-2010 at 01:49 PM

What are your choices when you reach the end of the 5 year time period for the fm2. Do you have to take immigrado and is it true is costs around $900.00. I understand you don't need to go to Mexico city anymore and if your over 60 or 65 you don't need to take the tests . Is that true,k

[Edited on 5-13-2010 by Keri]

dtbushpilot - 5-13-2010 at 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Keri
What are your choices when you reach the end of the 5 year time period for the fm2. Do you have to take immagrado and is it true is costs around $900.00. I understand you don't need to go to Mexico city anymore and if your over 60 or 65 you don't need to take the tests . Is that true,k

I've heard that you don't have to take the test after 60 or maybe 65 or you have to take it no matter how old you are. You (me too) need to find someone who is well connected and up to speed to answer these and other questions. With the new regulations it will be a while before the dust settles and things become clearer.

I would bet that there are handlers out there (the good ones) who are going over the new rules with a fine tooth comb and along with their friends at img are finding the loop holes that their clients can jump through before img closes them.

I need to find one of those guys......dt

karenintx - 5-13-2010 at 03:36 PM

If I may...I would like to share our story.

On Monday May 10th the hubby and I walked to the "INM" office which is only a few blocks from our condo in CSL. Our intentions...to ask questions and get "the check list". Here in Cabo this is something INM has provided to anyone that is renewing their FM 2/3"s. We were third in line so our names were called within 15 minuets...this is good! For anyone that has been in CSL's INM office then you know there is one very nice and helpful female agent and we were lucky enough to have her call our names. Instead of getting "the check list" she told us "You have to fill the forms out online so lets go over to the computer and I will help you." CSL's INM has set up a desk in the waiting room with a computer that is connected to the Internet so anyone can use it to fill our the required form. She explained the process than asked if we could read Spanish good enough to do this and we said "Yes." We filled out forms, hit the print button and about 2 minuets later an agent behind the desk called out our names. We retrieve the forms and asked "what do we need to bring ?...bank statements, copies of USA passports, copies of FM3, what?" This is our fifth year so we are not rookies but with the new rules as of May 1st we wanted to make sure we were getting the correct answers. The female agent told us "Just this form, copies of both USA passport and your FM3's. Sounds simple. The hubby goes to play golf and I go home to start making copies.

Tuesday morning we were third in line again...this time there was only one agent working the desk. Finally a second agent came out from the back to help. From the moment he appeared I knew things were not going to be good for any of us sitting in the waiting room. He had that look...the one that he "hates having to help Gringos" and of course he called our names. We felt like kids in school when the teacher is telling you how much you have screwed up. Biting my tongue until it was bleeding...I kindly asked him "why would the female agent give us completely different instructions then what you are telling us?" Realizing this agent is not going to accept our paperwork or lack of paperwork, I might as well say what I was thinking...I just said it nicely. We leave INM with heads down and tails between legs. The hubby goes to play golf while I go home to start all over again. This time, I am making more copies than he asked for and copies of things he didn't ask for.

Wednesday morning we were fourth in line. When the door was unlocked we were so happy to see a different male agent that is as friendly and helpful as the female agent. He was sing and greeting us "gringos" with open arms. As I walked through the door he put his arm around my should, walked up the steps with me...singing the entire time. We signed-in and sat down hoping the "singing agent" would call our name. No such luck...we got the "I hate having to help gringos" agent. However this morning he was sooooooo nice and polite...maybe the singing agent was his "hefe". He went through our paperwork stamping the pages with a smile on his face. He typed a few things on the computer, went over to the printer then handed each of us a piece of paper with a website address, our "PIN" number and we were told we could monitor the process online and we would know when it is ready to pick up. The hubby asked "about how long do you think it will take?" The agent said about 15 days...did not ask him if that was calendar days or business days. Just glad he accepted everything.

To be continued in about 15 days or as things progress.

pacside - 5-13-2010 at 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by karenintx
If I may...I would like to share our story.

The hubby asked "about how long do you think it will take?" The agent said about 15 days...did not ask him if that was calendar days or business days. Just glad he accepted everything.

To be continued in about 15 days or as things progress.

Thank you karenintx for sharing your experience.

What a crap shoot. What happens if you are 1 hr from the INM office (La Paz in my case) and you go back 3 days in a row and get the "i hate helping gringo" dude behind the counter each time?

Also, what happens if you don't have 15 days to wait? Sounds like I would be having an experience like dtbushpilots.

I hope my 'guy' in La Paz comes through.

Appreciate folks posting their experiences. I will post mine as well.

pacside

DENNIS - 5-13-2010 at 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by dtbushpilot

I've heard that you don't have to take the test after 60 or maybe 65 or you have to take it no matter how old you are. You (me too) need to find someone who is well connected and up to speed to answer these and other questions. With the new regulations it will be a while before the dust settles and things become clearer.

I think some are confusing Inmigrado with Naturalization. There is no test for Inmigrado...never has been. It's just another waiting game and a fistfull of fun tickets.
I know people here who have Inmigrado who couldn't pass a test in Spanish if the only word was Margarita. No test.

pacside - 5-13-2010 at 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

DENNIS...well that is a relief. I'm sure it's been covered but what are the main differences between Inmigrado and Naturalization? Also, if one isn't living in baja but visits frequently is it worth it to get to this stage? I like the thought of not ever having to go through this visa hassle.
pacside

bajalou - 5-13-2010 at 04:30 PM

Immigrado is the status of a permanent non-Mexican resident. Naturalization is the process of becoming a Mexican citizen. Immigrado has restrictions on the amount of time you can spend out of Mexico.

DENNIS - 5-13-2010 at 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by pacside
DENNIS...well that is a relief. I'm sure it's been covered but what are the main differences between Inmigrado and Naturalization? Also, if one isn't living in baja but visits frequently is it worth it to get to this stage? I like the thought of not ever having to go through this visa hassle.
pacside

Without getting into the fine details of the difference, for which I would have to research so as to not sound like an idiot, it's a matter of personal choice. I will be going for Inmigrado in a couple of years and that's where I'll stay. I want to continue to be a legal guest in Mexico and have no desire to be a citizen or vote or any of those perks.
Others will see it differently for their personal reasons.

I suggest you talk with Sheri and keep in mind her reasons for taking the path she did.

Oh, yeah....it is worth it to advance to the ultimate stage of whichever route you want to take if for no other reason than to just get it over with. It's a pain in the butt, this every year ordeal with all the mystery surrounding it.

maspacifico - 5-13-2010 at 05:13 PM

Thank you all for letting me know the app had to be online! I don't get to go back to a condo in town to print things out......more like 30 miles of bad road....each way. My wife and I are going in to Cabo on Monday. Trying to renew an FM3 and start an FM2. Hopefully we get Josie, the angel of the office. I will report back. We usually have copies of copies of copies of stuff they have never asked for, but, if you know what they asked more copies for?
Thanks

dtbushpilot - 5-13-2010 at 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

In re-reading my rambling reply I can see the confusion I caused. The 60 or 65 year thing has to do with the naturalization test, no test for Immigrado. My understanding is that once you are cannonized with immigrado you don't have to come back to img. I assume that you can be in or out of the country as long as you like after that. Does anybody know any different? My assumption is that if we reach the requirements of immigrado before getting our citizenship we would just do that (immigrado). Any thoughts?....dt

dtbushpilot - 5-13-2010 at 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by morgaine7

Quote:

Originally posted by dtbushpilot
My assumption is that if we reach the requirements of immigrado before getting our citizenship we would just do that (immigrado). Any thoughts?....dt

You mentioned earlier the issues of property ownership and transfer. Inmigrado status won't help with that. You're still a foreigner and need the fideicomiso unless you become a naturalized citizen.

Kate

Thanks Kate, that's good to know. I figure if I get 5 years down the road and still haven't been successful on Naturalization I'll give up and go Immigrado.....dt

Eli - 5-14-2010 at 08:49 AM

One of my principal reasons to become a Naturalized Citizen was I never ever, ever, ever want to deal with an Immigration Office adventure again, been there, done that to many times. If you live and have property in Mexico, it is so worth the citizenship papers to protect your right to be here.

mulegemichael - 5-14-2010 at 05:08 PM

heh heh...good to see yer stayin' mentally active, dt.

dtbushpilot - 5-14-2010 at 06:05 PM

Yes mike, it's good to have a little "mental floss" from time to time. Helps me keep my sense of humor intact......dt

mulegemichael - 5-14-2010 at 08:20 PM

i gotta feeling your sense of humor is VERY intact...just a hunch..we'll be back down in a week from today for some do dos.

dtbushpilot - 5-14-2010 at 09:31 PM

I stopped by to visit on my way North but as you know, you weren't there. We'll try to stop by on our next trip South, I'll be in touch...hi to Roz....dt&jt