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MEXICAN POOR

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comitan - 5-16-2010 at 02:15 PM

Check this out you will love it or not.

http://bierceannals.blogspot.com/2010/05/gringo-arrogance.ht...

[Edited on 5-16-2010 by comitan]

Bajahowodd - 5-16-2010 at 02:43 PM

I don't wish to diminish the impact of the post. However, the attribution may be purposely incorrect for political impact. That doesn't sound like Nancy Pelosi. It sound more like Cardinal Mahony.

Mexicorn - 5-16-2010 at 02:49 PM

Different slant on things.

Paula - 5-16-2010 at 03:09 PM

I love it!

I also like Nancy Pelosi. If she made this remark, I think we are hearing it without context.

For whatever reason, many Mexicans want to enter the US, and I'm all for them being able to come and go north and south as freely as we do.

Woooosh - 5-16-2010 at 03:10 PM

When Mexico can treat her much less fortunate southern neighbors with compassion, it will be entitled to receive the same from it's northern neighbor. jmho

DianaT - 5-16-2010 at 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Paula
I love it!

I also like Nancy Pelosi. If she made this remark, I think we are hearing it without context.

For whatever reason, many Mexicans want to enter the US, and I'm all for them being able to come and go north and south as freely as we do.

I also really like Nancy Pelosi, and this quote was picked up from the right wing bloggers and the quote begins with ..... which of course means it is out of context-----

Other than that, I liked the post on the blog, but did think it was rather romanticized as it left out some of the real problems in rural areas and spoke nothing to the REAL poverty in the urban areas. It generalized way too much.

So while I agree that what sometimes we see as poverty, is just a different way of life that may or may not be better., depending upon what one wants in life.

I know some undocumented workers who really want to stay in the US, and others would prefer to just travel back and forth.

IMHO, his opinion is well justified, but not for all.

Thank you Comitan for posting the link.

DENNIS - 5-16-2010 at 03:57 PM

I don't get it. Mexicans come to the states to work stateing their economic condition is impoverished. They cling to their reality of "Poverty" as reason enough to disregard the laws of another land.
But...when the US refers to them as impoverished and points to poverty as a basic condition of their life in Mexico, they act insulted and say they wouldn't have it any other way.
I wish they'd make up their mind.

Barry A. - 5-16-2010 at 03:58 PM

Diana T. says-------"I know some undocumented workers who really want to stay in the US, and others would prefer to just travel back and forth. "

Why is it so difficult to use the more descriptive and totally accurate word "illegal" instead of "undocumented"??? I have never understood this.

"Undocumented" is such a vague term, and highly inadaquate, it seems to me. Use of words like "undocumented" is really out-of-context, in that it conveys such a misleading and benign description of illegals.

Barry

DENNIS - 5-16-2010 at 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Barry A.
"Undocumented" is such a vague term, and highly inadaquate

Not always, Barry.

"Car for sale...No Pink Slip"

That leaves no room for indecision...does it. :lol:

Paula - 5-16-2010 at 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Barry A.
Diana T. says-------"I know some undocumented workers who really want to stay in the US, and others would prefer to just travel back and forth. "

Why is it so difficult to use the more descriptive and totally accurate word "illegal" instead of "undocumented"??? I have never understood this.

"Undocumented" is such a vague term, and highly inadaquate, it seems to me. Use of words like "undocumented" is really out-of-context, in that it conveys such a misleading and benign description of illegals.

Barry

Barry, undocumented means "without papers". I think this is far more descriptive than "illegal". I personally don't see wanting to work and earn money as illegal, though I know you will tell me that it is, and technically you'll be right. I'm going to resist adding a rolleyes here, in the interest of civility :biggrin:

Barry A. - 5-16-2010 at 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by Barry A.
"Undocumented" is such a vague term, and highly inadaquate

Not always, Barry.

"Car for sale...No Pink Slip"

That leaves no room for indecision...does it. :lol:

Of course your right, Dennis-------avoid that puppy like the plague (unless your LE!!!!) :lol:

----but I submit that you should do the same with illegals. :light:

Barry

DianaT - 5-16-2010 at 04:13 PM

Quote:

Barry,
It is because I believe in the saying that no human being is illegal---and yes Dennis, I know you hate that saying.

When we were undocumented workers in Honduras, I never felt like an illegal human being---and yes, we were breaking the law and could have been deported. Also the people we personally know who are in US illegally, we do not consider illegal human beings. Some are friends and a couple are family members from different countries.

So it is not a matter of being politically correct, it is far more personal----I can say they are working illegally, or are in the country illegally (many entered the country legally), but I just refuse to call them illegal as a person. But even in those first two cases, I prefer to use other language----not illegal.

[Edited on 5-16-2010 by DianaT]

Barry A. - 5-16-2010 at 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Paula

Quote:

Paula----

I would never say, "----wanting to work and earn money is illegal"------- no way is that illegal!!! I personally don't blame the individual Mexicanos for coming to the USA---anyway they can, since we have obviously encouraged it by lack of enforcement of most all the pertinant laws including prosecution of those that hire them------.

But I AM screaming for the Fed. Govt. to do what they are required by the Constitution (and common sense) to do-------protect our borders against illegal crossings by both humans and contraband.

Use of the word "undocumented" is just avoiding and corrupting the main issue here-------violation of our Borders!

Barry

Bajahowodd - 5-16-2010 at 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS
I don't get it. Mexicans come to the states to work stateing their economic condition is impoverished. They cling to their reality of "Poverty" as reason enough to disregard the laws of another land.
But...when the US refers to them as impoverished and points to poverty as a basic condition of their life in Mexico, they act insulted and say they wouldn't have it any other way.
I wish they'd make up their mind.

First, How many Mexican lawyers, doctors, or engineers have migrated to the US? Mexico has a long history of having an oligarchic society wherein a relatively small number of wealthy people hold sway over the social and economic day to day life in the country. It is only relatively recently that a distinct middle class has begun to emerge. For many decades, the migrants from Mexico that we encountered in the US were from the vast impoverished class. Many of them, with indigenous roots. It has long been a case that the European class of Mexicans held sway over the indigenous masses. I'm thinking that the author of the original post had allegiance with the Europeans, who could even, actually romanticize the backward nature of day to day, general Mexican society, which is what this post did.

Stickers - 5-16-2010 at 04:25 PM

Quote:

Dennis, that post was written by an American citizen who recently obtained dual citizenship and calls himself a Mexican. He moved to Mexico after retirement and married a younger Mexican women. He is a bit disgruntled at his failures in life in the States and now rants a bit about it.
Just thought a little more context would be useful.

[Edited on 5-17-2010 by Stickers]

Bajahowodd - 5-16-2010 at 04:27 PM

Bingo. even better.

DianaT - 5-16-2010 at 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Stickers

Dennis, that post was written by an American citizen who recently obtained dual citizenship and calls himself a Mexican. He moved to Mexico after retirement and married a younger Mexican women. He is a bit disgruntled at his failures in life in the States and now rants a bit about it.
Just thought a little more contest would be useful.

Thanks----that explains a lot of what is written.

DENNIS - 5-16-2010 at 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DianaT
It is because I believe in the saying that no human being is illegal---and yes Dennis, I know you hate that saying.

I do, Diane. I hate it because, in spite of the fact that it's technically meaningless, libs have grasped on to it and given it meaning with their overly vocal acceptance of it as real.
It's placard nonsense which in all probabability would be long gone by now if not for those who think the term is viable although unacceptable. By unanimous rejection of the term, it is being kept alive.
Tell your friends to not use that word anymore and it will atrophy away.

DianaT - 5-16-2010 at 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by DianaT
It is because I believe in the saying that no human being is illegal---and yes Dennis, I know you hate that saying.

What is meaningful, real and important is different to everyone---I will stick to undocumented, thank you.

DENNIS - 5-16-2010 at 04:42 PM

Quote:

Thanks for the background. In keeping with his failures of the past, he continues to be a loser.

" This is patronizing arrogance"

This is his evaluation of the US mindset that Mexico's impoverished people are in need of our assistance.
Well...they are. Isn't that exactly what this gangfight is all about?

[Edited on 5-16-2010 by DENNIS]

tripledigitken - 5-16-2010 at 04:45 PM

some of my best friends are illegals...........

Barry A. - 5-16-2010 at 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DianaT

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by DianaT
It is because I believe in the saying that no human being is illegal---and yes Dennis, I know you hate that saying.

What is meaningful, real and important is different to everyone---I will stick to undocumented, thank you.

----but, but, but------by using the word 'undocumented' you are doing what you were criticising others of doing in an earlier post---namely making statements out of context-----"undocumented" does not tell the full story, and is therefore inherently misleading and, like Dennis says, meaningless.

Human beans are not "illegal"---the act they commited is illegal!!!

When you break the law (usually a personal choice), you must except the consequences----to do otherwise is compounding the illegal act, and that will bite you big time in the USA Judicial system as we know it, as it should. To follow your logic seems to me to make "laws" a joke, thus erroding the very civilization and society that we have so painfully built up over the years in this Country. It ain't perfect, for sure, but it is the best going so far.

Barry

DianaT - 5-16-2010 at 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by tripledigitken
some of my best friends are illegals...........

We have been considering returning to Honduras for a year and we will once again be undocumented workers----we refuse to be illegals, however.

Went back and read that blog again----even more interesting knowing who the author is-

wessongroup - 5-16-2010 at 04:55 PM

Undocumented = not in the Untied States legally therefor the individual can do nothing legally: drive a car, get insurance, by a home, get social security, pay property taxes, pay payroll taxes, the list goes on... and oh, one other... get a job and work legally in the United States = Illegal

One may not "like" it... but, it is the current law of the United States of America, which makes these and individuals illegal when they walk across the border without "proper" documentation.

Words don't really make that much difference when someone is being picked up and taken back to Mexico.. they call it getting caught... most don't get into a discussion over getting busted... was talking with a guy that got kicked out just a couple years ago .. He only wants to be able to apply to go across, but he got caught twice and he says he can't EVER go back ... which I don't think is fair... if he puts in his application, and does what is asked he should be able to get the proper documentation and go back to the States.. he had a family with 5 children, his wife is driving them daily across to school, as they were born in the States. I have not read the law, but it sounds more like policy... welcome answers in that area from anyone .... it would sure help this family out.. if this guy can make a living in Rosarito.. he can anywhere, given a chance...

tripledigitken - 5-16-2010 at 05:07 PM

I just read the original post.

We spent a few days in Patzcuaro and the surrounding countryside. The last thing that occured to me whilst taking in that beautiful part of the world filled with art and culture was............"poverty".

This "Gringo" takes offense to much of his post.

And yes, knowing his background brings some clarity to his point of view.

Ken

DENNIS - 5-16-2010 at 05:09 PM

Ok...Ok...Ok...........no more illegal alien. From now on we'll call them, "Guests in the US currently in a state of illegalness."

GITUSCIASOI

Can't wait to see Janet Murgia walking up and down the street with that placard over her reconquista shoulder.

comitan - 5-16-2010 at 05:14 PM

I think that it comes down to is easy money, at least easier than Mexico, where there is very little poverty in my estimation of 27 years bumming around Mexico.

comitan - 5-16-2010 at 05:23 PM

This interpretation works for me. (Excerpt)

Much has been written about the meaning of poverty. What we find through our work and frequent visits to poor communities is that poverty:

* deprives people of their security and well-being;
* deprives people not only of safe water and adequate food, clothing and shelter, but also education and healthcare;
* takes away people’s rights, and their freedom, dignity and peace of mind;
* puts people's lives in danger and robs them of their future.

Of course, poverty is not just about physical deprivation, it is also about lack of opportunity and loss of hope (poverty of spirit) -- see what we say about this in relation to countries in Eastern Europe.

The Scottish Poverty Information Unit argues that: "Poverty is defined relative to the standards of living in a society at a specific time. People live in poverty when they are denied an income sufficient for their material needs and when these circumstances exclude them from taking part in activities which are an accepted part of daily life in that society."

Barry A. - 5-16-2010 at 05:53 PM

"The Scottish Poverty Information Unit argues that: "Poverty is defined relative to the standards of living in a society at a specific time. People live in poverty when they are denied an income sufficient for their material needs and when these circumstances exclude them from taking part in activities which are an accepted part of daily life in that society."

The Amish and Menonites come to mind--------I have some problems with the second part of that definition. By that definition the "standard of living" in THE HAMPTONS puts me in poverty, yet I don't feel like I am impoverished even when I am there on vacation (a friend of mind has a 2nd home almost there), and I certainly don't feel deprived in any way.

I accept the first part, tho.

Barry

Bajahowodd - 5-16-2010 at 05:58 PM

There's an amazing amount of poverty in the US. And to blame immigrants, legal or otherwise, is just ignoring the root cause of the problem. For at least three, perhaps, four decades, our country has gradually, but inexorably been moving away from a middle class society and into something that the third world has championed. Greed and hubris have redistributed the wealth, while at the same time, the so-called easy money of cheap loans and credit served to mask what was happening. Typical mom and pop families didn't have a clue about what was happening. So-called risky loans, credit cards that allowed a minimum monthly payment that really only served to enrich the bankers, an unrealistic and inexorable surge in real estate values, gave most common folk the idea that the American dream was theirs. Truth is that is was a house of cards that obviously collapsed when finally, the most exotic of financial industry programs imploded. Truth is that for perhaps thirty years, the US has been creating mythical wealth. While exporting well paying (at least here) jobs to the third world, the supposed vacuum was being filled by business school graduates who were taught that they were gamers who could seemingly create wealth in a casino environment. At the end of the day, if you don't have natural resources, if you don't manufacture stuff, the so-called wealth is plainly ephemeral. Hello Wall Street.

Barry A. - 5-16-2010 at 06:13 PM

Well, after some 45 years of investing in Stocks, Wall Street has certainly rewarded me with a comfortable living, my "American Dream", if you will. 75% of my income comes from my Stocks, and I enjoy it. We all get there in our own way, but a lot of folks that I see all around me are certainly living the "American Dream", and many of us want to preserve the system that provided us the means to achieve it, and hold on to it.

Barry

vandenberg - 5-16-2010 at 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajahowodd
For at least three, perhaps, four decades, our country has gradually, but inexorably been moving away from a middle class society and into something that the third world has championed. Greed and hubris have redistributed the wealth, while at the same time, the so-called easy money of cheap loans and credit served to mask what was happening. Typical mom and pop families didn't have a clue about what was happening. So-called risky loans, credit cards that allowed a minimum monthly payment that really only served to enrich the bankers, an unrealistic and inexorable surge in real estate values, gave most common folk the idea that the American dream was theirs.

Basically , this is an argument towards socialism, stating that most folks are not competent to handle every day's events rationally. Which means government interference, to keep people safe from the bankers, Wall street and other society's leaches ?? Isn't working too well in Europe and wherever it's been tried. I thoroughly believe education of the masses maybe the answer, although I"m afraid that the intelligence of the average citizen would be taxed to it's limits.

[Edited on 5-17-2010 by vandenberg]

bajaguy - 5-17-2010 at 05:02 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DianaT

We have been considering returning to Honduras for a year and we will once again be undocumented workers----we refuse to be illegals, however.

I find it interesting you publically boast you are going to intentionally violate the immigration and employment laws of the soverign country of Honduras. That is an illegal act, you will be in their country illegally which makes you an illegal.

Must be nice to pick and chose which laws you will obey.

durrelllrobert - 5-17-2010 at 08:03 AM

Quote:

Barry

Barry, undocumented means "without papers".

When most Italian immigrants landed at Ellis island in the 1900s their entry was stamped in the book as WOP which is a derogitory name for Italians today just as Espada Mojadas (sp?)is a derogitory term for Mexicans that are in the US illegally. Let's not start calling the WOPs now :spingrin:

[Edited on 5-17-2010 by durrelllrobert]

DianaT - 5-17-2010 at 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajaguy

Quote:

Originally posted by DianaT

We have been considering returning to Honduras for a year and we will once again be undocumented workers----we refuse to be illegals, however.

Yes, we are considering doing it again. We were never in the country illegally, we just did not have the expensive papers they want for one to work, so we were undocumented workers. :biggrin:

And yes, I don't have a problem with it because the school would have to close down if it paid for all the paper work for the teachers. The local immigration officer was very aware of the situation with the foreign teachers and chose not to do anything about it. He could have put a stop to it any time he wanted --- he knew all of us.

I know a number of people who enter the US legally all the time, but they are undocumented workers. I have no problem with these workers.

So you are correct, this is one law I have chosen to ignore and am OK with having done so.

[Edited on 5-17-2010 by DianaT]

DENNIS - 5-17-2010 at 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DianaT
I know a number of people who enter the US legally all the time, but they are undocumented workers. I have no problem with these workers.

If they are in country legally, how are they undocumented?

DianaT - 5-17-2010 at 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by DianaT
I know a number of people who enter the US legally all the time, but they are undocumented workers. I have no problem with these workers.

If they are in country legally, how are they undocumented?

They are here on travel, student or visiting visas---and they are from more than one other country.

Freedom and Equality

MrBillM - 5-17-2010 at 09:35 AM

I, too, think that citizens of Mexico should be able to travel freely into and out of the United States as long as they have the proper documents and financial resources to support themselves while "Visiting".

Come to think of it, they do NOW ! OR, all of those Mexican-plated vehicles filling up the Walmart and other parking lots are some sort of an illusion.

DENNIS - 5-17-2010 at 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DianaT

They are here on travel, student or visiting visas---and they are from more than one other country.

Well...shame on them. Don't they know they're gonna burn in Hell for eternity?
Oh...wait a minute. Are they in Yuma? :lol:

DianaT - 5-17-2010 at 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by DianaT

They are here on travel, student or visiting visas---and they are from more than one other country.

Well...shame on them. Don't they know they're gonna burn in Hell for eternity?
Oh...wait a minute. Are they in Yuma? :lol:

Since we did the same thing in Central America, I guess we are also destined for the fires----where most of our friends are going to be anyway since I hear there will only be 100,000 people in the other place.

DENNIS - 5-17-2010 at 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DianaT

there will only be 100,000 people in the other place.

What a smooth way to get in a plug for Anthony's. Is their stock in your portfolio, Diane? :lol:

DianaT - 5-17-2010 at 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by DianaT

there will only be 100,000 people in the other place.

What a smooth way to get in a plug for Anthony's. Is their stock in your portfolio, Diane? :lol:

They sell stock? Do give me the symbol and I'm in. Got to love a business going strong. :biggrin:

monoloco - 5-17-2010 at 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by comitan
This interpretation works for me. (Excerpt)

Much has been written about the meaning of poverty. What we find through our work and frequent visits to poor communities is that poverty:

* deprives people of their security and well-being;
* deprives people not only of safe water and adequate food, clothing and shelter, but also education and healthcare;
* takes away people’s rights, and their freedom, dignity and peace of mind;
* puts people's lives in danger and robs them of their future.

Of course, poverty is not just about physical deprivation, it is also about lack of opportunity and loss of hope (poverty of spirit) -- see what we say about this in relation to countries in Eastern Europe.

The Scottish Poverty Information Unit argues that: "Poverty is defined relative to the standards of living in a society at a specific time. People live in poverty when they are denied an income sufficient for their material needs and when these circumstances exclude them from taking part in activities which are an accepted part of daily life in that society."

Who is poorer, an American who has a 500k mortgage on a house worth 250k or a Mexican who owns a shack unencumbered ?

Barry A. - 5-17-2010 at 10:41 AM

That's easy-----the Mexican is far and away ahead of the guy with the mortgage---------the mortgage guy is way into negative territory, possibly never to recover-------what WAS he thinking??

When I ask for financial advice, it is the Mexican I am consulting with. :lol:

$500 mortgage------what folly!!!!

Barry

comitan - 5-17-2010 at 10:56 AM

:light:

DianaT - 5-17-2010 at 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by comitan
:light:

Guess someone should go and inform all the people who live off the Tijuana or Mexico City dumps (and many others) that because they have free and clear squatter's rights to their cardboard shacks, they are not poor, in fact they are very lucky??

Cypress - 5-17-2010 at 11:23 AM

Poor? :?:

Doesn't matter what side of the border you call home, nobody has to tell you whether or not you're poor. :no:

It's a reality that the posters on this board can debate, discuss and contemplate, but they can't really identify with.

Having Nothing but the Best

MrBillM - 5-17-2010 at 11:27 AM

I've always heard that "The Best Things in Life are Free".

Isn't that a Song ?

Well, anyway, given that the poor should be as happy as anyone else. Happier ?

As I've often heard ( and experienced ), having money brings its own set of problems. The poor are better off not having to make all of those money-related decisions.

Another Homily (which I'm Sure is true) is that "People will do the Right Thing" when they see inequality. So, it will all work out.

"Everythang's Gonna be All Right".

Don't worry. Be Happy. Leave MY Money alone.

comitan - 5-17-2010 at 11:39 AM

I think I can identify with being poor, as a kid, picking fruit in Calif. living in shacks, tents, under bridges 5 of us work all week buy groceries, see a movie then back to work. I think if you have never had the good life it doesn't bother its when you have had the good life and either lost it or had it taken away that you can have the poor feeling.

DENNIS - 5-17-2010 at 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by comitan
I think if you have never had the good life it doesn't bother its when you have had the good life and either lost it or had it taken away that you can have the poor feeling.

You got it, Wiley. "Poor" is a relative term. If we didn't have poor, we wouldn't have "Rich."
The commies tried to achieve that balance, but it didn't work.

Cypress - 5-17-2010 at 11:57 AM

comitan, Yea, most of us have our own "being poor" experiences.

It wasn't all bad was it? :?:

Some of the best times and some of the worst times.

Being poor is tuff, but being rich, then being poor has got to be very hard to handle.

DENNIS - 5-17-2010 at 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cypress
being rich, then being poor has got to be very hard to handle.

It would be if you hadn't already bought three of everything. Poor planning in such a volatile economy. :lol:

comitan - 5-17-2010 at 12:47 PM

Actually very pleasant memories, I'm sure most of you have never tasted a prune plum in the cool of the morning. I still remember!!!!

Cypress - 5-17-2010 at 01:02 PM

comitan, And don't ever forget.

Barry A. - 5-17-2010 at 01:22 PM

I followed a one-man hay bailer around the fields loading 120 lb bales of hay on a trailer in Owens Valley for 3 summers in a row while in high school-------never felt better in my life!!! I certainly did not have a bunch of money, but boy did I feel good!!!

Later in my early 20's I worked highway bridge construction as a day laborer for 3 years to get enough money together to return to college-----I had a wife and 2 kids, and my wife had no income. It worked, we saved, and I finished College---------it was all fun!

I never "felt" poor (strapped, yes, but not poor), and I don't feel "rich" now (even tho by some standards I am)-------everything is relative, and how you "look" at it.

Never been on unemployment, and in fact never was unemployed after College except for 2 weeks between jobs. I had dozens of jobs during that time tho-------never could figure out what I wanted to do until the Natl. Park Service Ranger idea came along-----best decision of my life, but boy were we poor as a Ranger. :lol:

Oh well, life is a series of trade-offs. :yes:

Barry

Bajahowodd - 5-17-2010 at 01:29 PM

I think Dennis got it right when he referred to "poor" as a relative term. Many of us have made do with much less at some time in our lives. And at the same time, may well never had considered ourselves to be poor. However, I'm guessing that we can all agree that hungry children and homeless families represent a step beyond most of our experiences.

comitan - 5-17-2010 at 01:42 PM

Have to tell you a story. We have a lot of do gooders in La Paz, one of them & I went to a "poor" area of La Paz I was donating a mattress to an old woman that was sleeping on the ground. This poor family who had a husky looking father, had no work so I offered to drive to his place the next morning 15Miles and take him to my place to work, great until the next morning when I arrived he was not there he walked into town, I guess to get out of work now do you suppose that is why they where poor. And do you still try to help someone like this.?

Bajahowodd - 5-17-2010 at 01:47 PM

Reminds me of the amazing numbers of folks pushing shopping carts filled with their belongings that I see around town. Sadly, many of those folks actually choose that life. I've been at a local liquor store and watched one of these guys come in and buy a couple of tall boys and a cigar, leave and head off pushing his cart. Go figure!

Osprey - 5-17-2010 at 01:51 PM

My whole family (12 or 13 of us I think) followed the circus, lived off the hot dog sticks. We all have bad teeth now (the ones that lived).

Cypress - 5-17-2010 at 02:04 PM

Osprey. :biggrin:

Now they be a story or two there and you are a teller of stories. Please share one or two.

Will be gratified and thankful. :biggrin:

DENNIS - 5-17-2010 at 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Barry A.
-------never could figure out what I wanted to do until the Natl. Park Service Ranger idea came along-----

Barry...You must have seen one of those adds on the inside cover of the outdoors magazines like Field and Stream. They offered home study to prepare one to become a Park Ranger, a Game Warden or a Government Hunter.
That's what I always wanted to do...go on Safari for America.

Barry A. - 5-17-2010 at 02:39 PM

Yes, Dennis-----I sure remember those ads and even sent away for some of the stuff---------not sure what I did with it, tho. That was about the same time that I landed a permanent Park Service job at Grand Canyon. Boy, was I lucky with that!!!! Starting pay was $5,200 a year (1968). We barely scraped by, but sure had fun, all of us-----kids and wife loved it, too. By that time my kids were in grade school and old enough to appreciate it all.

Getting a job as a Ranger in those days was pure luck, coupled with my continuous pestering calls to the Washington Office of NPS for almost a year-----called every two weeks, or so, asking to talk to the same girl. Finally payed off, and they hired me to get me off their back, I believe. One day she said, "if you can be in Grand Canyon in 3 weeks, you have the permanent job". Off we went. :lol:

Barry

Decent Money

MrBillM - 5-17-2010 at 03:01 PM

5K wasn't bad in '68.

I wasn't making too much more than that at NAA. Around 6500.

Of course, I was single living at the beach at the time.

Families cost.

monoloco - 5-17-2010 at 03:08 PM

Since you could buy a pretty nice new car for 4k in 68 I'm guessing that 5k then would be equal to about 25k in today's dollars.

Bajahowodd - 5-17-2010 at 03:20 PM

What cost 4k? After a bunch of junker used cars, I bought my first new car in '69. The first edition Camaro, with the bumble bee stripe on the snout, for $2700.

baitcast - 5-17-2010 at 03:36 PM

Right off the show room floor a 1965 Dodge 3/4T 4/4,318 power wagon,4 speed no ac,no radio,3250$ out the door and I was making 1.90$ per hr :lol:

Rob

4K Cars

MrBillM - 5-17-2010 at 03:48 PM

Yeah.

In 1968, 4K would buy a lot of car. 5K would buy a Vette.

Using one of the many calculators available online, 5K (1968) = 30.5K (2009). A little less than $15.00 hour.

Bajahowodd - 5-17-2010 at 04:00 PM

So, what would a tricked-out Caddie have cost then? Fundamentally, that era was before the ridiculously priced invasion cars of MB and BMW.

comitan - 5-17-2010 at 04:11 PM

In 1953 $1200 would by a new chevy.

tripledigitken - 5-17-2010 at 04:28 PM

I remember my stepdad (in 1959-1960) drooling over a MB 300SL gull wing, a 1955 or 56 model for $8500. 3 bd tract homes were $20,000.

I bought a new VW big loaded in 1968 for $2,500.

Ken

Skeet/Loreto - 5-17-2010 at 04:40 PM

And in 1968 I had just bought a 1967 Cessna 172/Brand New from the Factory? Then off to San Francisco for $15,000 a year a Company Car and Airplane and office just 10 blocks from Carol Doda!!!

Flower Children walking Shattuck Ave. in Berkerly with out Bras!!

Those were the Days !

nancyinpdx - 5-17-2010 at 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DianaT

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by DianaT
It is because I believe in the saying that no human being is illegal---and yes Dennis, I know you hate that saying.

What is meaningful, real and important is different to everyone---I will stick to undocumented, thank you.

It's hating ugly words, like kids born out of wedlock are called 'illegitmate'! How horrible!!!!!!!!!! No person is illegitimate!

I understand Diane!

[Edited on 5-18-2010 by nancyinpdx]

tripledigitken - 5-17-2010 at 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
And in 1968 I had just bought a 1967 Cessna 172/Brand New from the Factory? Then off to San Francisco for $15,000 a year a Company Car and Airplane and office just 10 blocks from Carol Doda!!!

Flower Children walking Shattuck Ave. in Berkerly with out Bras!!

Those were the Days !

What about that Nekid Baja Nomad on the back of a motorcycle in Bezerkley?

Eli - 5-17-2010 at 05:00 PM

Two of the richest women that I know are potters/sculptures in a little village in Oaxaca. I expect their income is easily less than $200 DLLs. a month. With this income they have their own home which they inherited from the parents of one of them. Every day they eat simple but WELL, (maybe even better than most of us certainly better than me) , blankets and clothes are not an issue for them. They have what they need, they just don't have a lot of Stuff. They even have a small art collection in their home They educated their son/nephew to the 9th grade, only because that is as far as he wanted to go. Their daughter/niece is now in the 8th grade with a 9.6 grade average and the gumption to keep on going with her studies, so a scholarship has found it's way to help her on her way. If You ever told them they were poor, they would look at you like you were from a different planet. They taught me that once the basics of life are met; it is all a matter of perspective if you are well off or not.

Skeet/Loreto - 5-17-2010 at 05:12 PM

Very well Said Eli!

What people like Diane and Nancey inPhx do not understand is that there are many peop[le inBaja and Mexico that live in Cardboard Shacks that are much, much happeir than the Odd Ball Characters living in the States with nothing else to do but Hollar about , Global Warming, Immigation, The Rich people with all the Money, the vote on legalizising DOPE, and How much Money they can get from the Rich to give to the Poor!!

They just do not have the Ability or brains to understand that there are differences in People, No Matter how much money they may be able to get from the Govt. They never improve their Lot.

Look at the Native Americans: They have been given Money, help, Education and they still do not as a Whole improve themselves.

Same with the Blacks.

Could it be that the "White Folks" have different Genes or Brains that they can "Make more Money and Accumlate more Wealth???

Are you people jusfing the Poor People by their We3alth and nottheir hearts and Minds.???

I know Poor People who are smart enough to know that they are Happier with where they are than in the States with lots of Money..

You Girls need to go to Mexico and live with a Poor Happy Family for at least 6 months. It is hoped you might Learn something.

Enough said on my 79th Birthday.

Barry A. - 5-17-2010 at 05:18 PM

HAPPY BIRTHDAY, SKEET. I am not far behind you!!!! Hope you are having a wonderful day--------I have so enjoyed your posts over the many years I have been with the NOMADS-------and I intend to enjoy them for many years to come.

Best, Barry

wessongroup - 5-17-2010 at 05:21 PM

Quote:

Hey, thanks a lot for that one.... lots of mind pictures just exploded

I kept reading this thread

Dave - 5-17-2010 at 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
Very well Said Eli!

What people like Diane and Nancey inPhx do not understand is that there are many peop[le inBaja and Mexico that live in Cardboard Shacks that are much, much happeir than the Odd Ball Characters living in the States with nothing else to do but Hollar about , Global Warming, Immigation, The Rich people with all the Money, the vote on legalizising DOPE, and How much Money they can get from the Rich to give to the Poor!!

They just do not have the Ability or brains to understand that there are differences in People, No Matter how much money they may be able to get from the Govt. They never improve their Lot.

Look at the Native Americans: They have been given Money, help, Education and they still do not as a Whole improve themselves.

Same with the Blacks.

Could it be that the "White Folks" have different Genes or Brains that they can "Make more Money and Accumlate more Wealth???

Are you people jusfing the Poor People by their We3alth and nottheir hearts and Minds.???

I know Poor People who are smart enough to know that they are Happier with where they are than in the States with lots of Money..

You Girls need to go to Mexico and live with a Poor Happy Family for at least 6 months. It is hoped you might Learn something.

Enough said on my 79th Birthday.

Because I knew, eventually, Skeet would chime in.

He did not disappoint.

Nice touch to include those shiftless Injuns and Black folk, buddy. :rolleyes:

Sharksbaja - 5-17-2010 at 05:54 PM

Quote:

Hard to toast such bigotry Skeet. I'll bet all the stupid Nomad girls like Nancy in Arizona (did she move?) and Diane are enjoying your display, I sure am(not).

edit to add Diane :yes:

[Edited on 5-18-2010 by Sharksbaja]

DianaT - 5-17-2010 at 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sharksbaja

Quote:

Hard to toast such bigotry Skeet. I'll bet all the stupid Nomad girls like Nancy in Arizona(

) are enjoying your display, I sure am(not).

His rant is good for a good laugh, definitely not worth a response, except to say at least he is honest about being a bigot.

Nancy, it is good to see a few understand how ugly and offensive the words like illegal and illegitimate are when they are used as label on human beings---

Sharksbaja - 5-17-2010 at 06:13 PM

I find it disgusting, not funny.

DianaT - 5-17-2010 at 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sharksbaja
I find it disgusting, not funny.

Yes, I agree---it is disgusting----my laugh is a one of disbelief that anyone would actually write that!

Skeet/Loreto - 5-17-2010 at 06:19 PM

How can you say that I am a Bigot.????

I did not say any thing Nasty or Bad about anyone.!

What is wrong with you Young Folks??

You seem to think the only good about people is How much Money or How many Things they have. Do you not knon that Honesty, Brotherly Love, Truth and all those >Morals" are still in the hearts of Poor People.??

Do not judge Poor People by your Standards! Your Standards are Warped by DOPE, Socialist Upbringing,, and Lack of ability to solve the problems

You have just been raised as "Whimps' with Weak Minds and no Ability to see the complete Picture.

Eli - 5-17-2010 at 06:31 PM

Well Skeet, gosh darn-it ol man, what can I say, sometimes we are on the same page, sometimes, more like most of the time we are not. I must admit there are somethings you have said here that are right on, I just had to edit them in my mind to make them work for me.

For example; I gotta say that I don't think race or nationality has anything to do with peoples vision of their economic situation.

Nancy & Diane, count me in; I can't use illegal nor illegitimate to describe a humanebeing.

dtbushpilot - 5-17-2010 at 06:36 PM

Skeet, I like the way you put things, straightforward and to the point. It's fun to watch the "spread the wealth" folks recoil in horror when someone points out the 1000lb elephant in the room. Well said buddy, happy birthday......dt

wessongroup - 5-17-2010 at 06:38 PM

Disgusting?... it's one man speaking his mind... I find it Skeet/Loreto .... may not agree with everything the man has to say... but, by God what he said is NOT disgusting... maybe not Politically Correct... But, any man that is 79 years of age should be able to speak his mind .... if you disagree with his points so state... but, leave the Suzy Home Maker out of the thread...

Move it to off-topic if you do not want to "read" his "words"...

Oh, my God... I can't believe we have come to this... in the early 60's they removed Tarzan from the library in Downey California... cuz.. they were not married...

Sure glad to have the word police cruising around..

Skeets.... tell us what ever you think is wrong with American.... and in your OWN WORDS!!!

[Edited on 5-18-2010 by wessongroup]

[Edited on 5-18-2010 by wessongroup]

Eli - 5-17-2010 at 06:43 PM

Ay que Skeet,

Here is an example of what you said that I edited in my head so that we could agree.

"there are many peop[le inBaja and Mexico that live in Cardboard Shacks that are much, much happeir!

Are you people jusfing the Poor People by their We3alth and nottheir hearts and Minds.???

I know Poor People who are smart enough to know that they are Happier with where they are than in the States with lots of Money.

live with a Poor Happy Family for at least 6 months. It is hoped you might Learn something."

See we can agree! Well, sort of, jejeje.

comitan - 5-17-2010 at 06:44 PM

Age is not an excuse for anything a person says or writes. :mad:

DENNIS - 5-17-2010 at 06:48 PM

I can't believe anyone here who has watched Skeet perform in the past could be upset with his far-flung opinions. Amazing when someone says something disagreeable, he is given the status of failed scholar who requires a scolding and between those instances is seen as no more than comedy relief.

Jeeeezo, folks...it's Skeet, and today is his birthday.

DianaT - 5-17-2010 at 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by wessongroup
Disgusting?... it's one man speaking his mind... I find it Skeet/Loreto .... may not agree with everything the man has to say... but, by God what he said is NOT disgusting... maybe not Politically Correct... But, any man that is 79 years of age should be able to speak his mind .... if you disagree with his points so state... but, leave the Suzy Home Maker out of the thread...

Move it to off-topic if you do not want to "read" his "words"...

Oh, my God... I can't believe we have come to this... in the early 60's they removed Tarzan from the library in Downey California... cuz.. they were not married...

Sure glad to have the word police cruising around..

Skeets.... tell us what ever you think is wrong with American.... and in your OWN WORDS!!!

[Edited on 5-18-2010 by wessongroup]

[Edited on 5-18-2010 by wessongroup]

Of course he has the right to speak his mind and give his opinions, just as others have the right to find his opinions and writings disgusting---has nothing to do with being politically correct nor age.

Happy Birthday Skeet---you have lived many years and I say congrats for that----but I am sorry, age does not give someone special rights in speaking their mind and not have people disagree.

Santiago - 5-17-2010 at 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto

Flower Children walking Shattuck Ave. in Berkerly with out Bras!!

Those were the Days !

Sigh....Dude, those were the guys.

wessongroup - 5-17-2010 at 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DianaT

Quote:

Disagreement is one thing, to classify the language as being "disgusting"... sorry ... don't buy that one... and as far as politically correct.. this continues to bleed through these issues consistently...

Glad you have allowed Skeets on his birthday to speak "disgusting" words in your view...

And what is disgust based on... if not political correctness ... as "who is it" that tells us what may be "said" today, other than the media and political apparatus which we operate under... our Educational System, our Religious Institutions, the Family Unit...

Sorry the choice of words used to describe what Skeets put up is too harsh in my book..

You can and will say what you want.. I just want to insure that Skeets has the same right to express himself.. without the fear of some "blanket" of control being placed over HIS words..

dtbushpilot - 5-17-2010 at 07:10 PM

well said wess....

DianaT - 5-17-2010 at 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sharksbaja
I find it disgusting, not funny.

And yes, I agree with that--especially references that suggest a belief in Aryanism---but Skeet is not going to be intimidated by any so called blanket control----he knows what he speaks, he believes what he speaks, and knows that others will----well, lots of things could be said and they would all be the same.

What is this, protect the oldsters? Let's patronize Skeet because he is older than most? Skeet is plenty capable of standing up for himself, he does and he will, and he will throw out the names and labels with the best of them. He loves to tell some of us what he thinks about us----he enjoys doing so.

Bajafun777 - 5-17-2010 at 08:54 PM

Skeet, happy birthday and we still need to have that beer. U2U me where you are at, as last time I got the impression you were living back in Texas.

You are on something that is true in that if you have never been poor or living from payday or hope of a payday your survival skills may not be in place if you have money and lose it all and need those skills.

People do not have the suffering like they use to as more people in today's world will reach into their pockets to help out. I know that watching some of the things going on in the United States is sicking to you and even confusing.

If most BabyBoomers were honest most would probably say they miss some of the by-gone days of a clear right or wrong, as everything now seems so blurred. Guess we owe that to the attorneys and politicians,oops my bad same things right,LOL :spingrin:

Again, pop a cold one for me and best wishes to you and if you can't tick off a few now and then well life would just be boring--------------- Later "No Hurry, No Worry, Just Fun" bajafun777

Sharksbaja - 5-18-2010 at 12:48 AM

It's funny that you(Skeet) call us names and label us. What I don't find funny is your references to others that infers inferior intelligence.

WessonMan. did I not say "I" find his words disgusting. It's my opinion or should I state it that way instead. You can support his words. If you do, I'd call you a bigot as well. JMHO

Dennis is right Skeets countless posts here on this forum are saturated with cutdowns and beratings for the generation he finds "weak" and not to his liking. If he disagrees with you you must be on DOPE not 2 fingers of tequila. :lol:

Cypress - 5-18-2010 at 05:35 AM

Here we go again.

Lacking anything factual to dispute a claim, the liberals trot out their most powerful weapon, name calling.

Could they at least come up with some new names. Bigot and racist are getting a little tattered.

Skeet/Loreto - 5-18-2010 at 06:05 AM

WOW!!

Boy did I stir up a Hornets nest.

TRUTH--Is something that a good many of the younger Generation do not Understand-Just look at the way some are trying to change History- Here I was part of that History and here comes a Yonger Generation saying "It did not Happen that way""

If you will open your mind and look at the Truth it is as follows:

Too this point Indians have not rasied their Culture to the same level as Whites.

AAt this point Blacks have not rasied their Culture to the Level of Whites.

Too this Point the Whites have been unable to Raise their Culture of Athelitics i.e. Blacks are better at Baskeball than Whites where Whites are better than Blacks at Skiing.

Indians have advanced somewhat in the Art of Casinos- Helped by the Maifia.

Chinese have increased their ability to Copy things, make them, then sell them to the rest of the world.

India Indians have done very well in the Medical Fields by producing some great Doctors.

I am just saying that People should be judged on their Acts instead of their Words.Does not make any difference their Eyes or Color.

Thanks for the Birthday Greetings/ Back to the Horses!!!

Skeet/Loreto - 5-18-2010 at 06:19 AM

It just came to me!!!!!

tHE YOUNGER GENERATION HAS BELEIVED ALL OF THOSE movies THEY HAVE BEEN WATCHING FOR THE PAST 30 YEARS.

NO WONDER THEY ACT LIKE THEY DO.

Atta Boy, Skeet!

Dave - 5-18-2010 at 07:05 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
Blacks are better at Baskeball than Whites where Whites are better than Blacks at Skiing.

You forgot to mention Yachting. :rolleyes:

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