BajaNomad - Shock advice...

Shock advice...

bigzaggin - 5-21-2010 at 03:23 PM

I drive a 2003 Tundra TRD Offroad and average about 3 solid Baja trips a year. My last trip late winter was essentially the final straw for the shocks and I've decided to finally upgrade. I don't take the thing "wheeling" in the sense that I tool around in dunes for fun - but it does spend some time in serious offroad conditions and needs to be reliable. Keep in mind the rest of the year, it shuttles me around the city so I'm not looking to soup the thing up too heavily. It's been a dependable, suitably rugged Baja car for 8 years and going strong today.

But it needs new shocks. So...Billstein 5100s or Rancho 9000s? Or something else? Just keep in mind it will spend 3 or so weeks a year offroad...

Thanks for any advice.

Ken Cooke - 5-21-2010 at 11:38 PM

I have been very happy with my Pro-Comp MX-6 shocks. You can valve the shock for your particular need. The Compression and Rebound are adjusted, not just the Compression like on the Rancho RS9000s.

bonanza bucko - 5-22-2010 at 07:12 AM

I had a 2004 Tundra 4X4 for seven years and loved it....would buy that truck again in a split second but they changed a lot of stuff for the worse in the new Tundra.

We hauled eight 120 pound solar batteries plus three people and food and booze for a month over the road from Puertecitos to Gonzaga Bay in 2008. My "half ton" Tundra was seriously overloaded. I drove 30MPH plus on the washboard and the overload plus the 112F heat melted the factory Billsteins. I put on a pair of spare Ranchos to get home and ORW replaced the factory Billsteins with 5100s and Billstein STOOD BEHIND the old ones....I was astounded because the failure was my fault.

The new Billsteins and an "Add a Leaf" overload spring changed the whole deal....the truck was raised about an inch and a half in back and it handled That Road and heavy loads just fine after that. It is still going strong in Baja where it belongs to a good buddy who loves it.

With the Add a Leaf and the new Billsteins the truck was about 10% stiffer than stock on the freeway but, aside from that change, it handled just like always...very well.

jeremias - 5-22-2010 at 10:45 PM

Bilsteins blow doors on everything else.

BigWooo - 5-23-2010 at 06:03 AM

I have Rancho 9000's. Living in Baja our truck has spent a lot of time on washboard lately and they seem to be holding up. I have a question though, everyone seems to rave about Bilstein shocks. What makes them so much better??

Bob and Susan - 5-23-2010 at 07:21 AM

reality check...

let's do the math...

if it was a mercedes you wash all the time
i'd say invest...
but your "old truck" is ONLY worth $3000

3 trips a year down south
the rest probably in southern california and
trips to vegas

that's mostly asphalt paving so
no need for anything good

those toyota trucks usually have struts
on the front which means $$$

bilstein struts are $400 each and you need 2
rears are $150 each and you need 2
that's over $1100 in parts ONLY
and you still need instalation $$$$

that's 1/3 the value of the "old truck"

worth it...no

pepboys has shocks and struts
installed for $350 out the door

worth it...maybe

i'd concentrate on fixing the oil leaks

hey...is your avatar a picture of a mountain goat
he kinda look like a "devil"

David K - 5-23-2010 at 07:23 AM

Bilstein 5100s :light:

On my 2005 Tacoma, replaced the yellow TRD Bilstein shocks with the silver/ blue 5100s...

[Edited on 5-23-2010 by David K]

woody with a view - 5-23-2010 at 07:28 AM

i paid $100 each for my Bilstien HD blu/yellow (there are different colors for different apps) struts. $70 each for the rears. i think. try shockwarehouse.com (but make sure they have them in stock. they didn't tell me mine were on back order when ordering online. they are in Fla and their distributor is in Poway, CA, 20 minutes from my house. they wouldn't let me pick them up. they had to be shipped to fla. then back to me in ca) or summitracing.com.

mtgoat666 - 5-23-2010 at 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by bigzaggin
I drive a 2003 Tundra TRD Offroad and average about 3 solid Baja trips a year. My last trip late winter was essentially the final straw for the shocks and I've decided to finally upgrade. I don't take the thing "wheeling" in the sense that I tool around in dunes for fun - but it does spend some time in serious offroad conditions and needs to be reliable. Keep in mind the rest of the year, it shuttles me around the city so I'm not looking to soup the thing up too heavily. It's been a dependable, suitably rugged Baja car for 8 years and going strong today.

But it needs new shocks.

sounds like your shocks lasted 8 years for mostly hwy driving, rare offroad driving. just replace them with similar and keep on truckin'

bigzaggin - 5-23-2010 at 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bob and Susan
your "old truck" is ONLY worth $3000

Here's the thing though: custom built Caravan Camper shell. This truck will not go gently into the Baja Night. I am already (happily) past the point of fiscal smarts with this girl...plus, sentimentality alone, I put her worth at 50K (give or take). And while it's true, it does a lot of city time, peace of mind in Baja is worth a little extra. Also, the new Tundras look like Rubbermaid cargo boxes.

David K., did you throw on extra leaf springs? Or simply replace TRD Billsteins with 5100s?

[Edited on 5-23-2010 by bigzaggin]

This is her BTW...

bigzaggin - 5-23-2010 at 10:39 AM

just south of that one place.jpg - 41kB

David K - 5-23-2010 at 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by bigzaggin

Quote:

Originally posted by Bob and Susan
your "old truck" is ONLY worth $3000

No, but I did add the Ride Rite air springs (bags) you see in the photo. The 2nd generation double cab Tacoma rear springs were too soft and bottomed out with a load, driving the way I do. Adding a leaf would make the truck ride hard allthe time... the air springs are adjustable... just add air when I needed it to be firmer and raise up the back.

My new Tacoma has better springs, and (so far) I haven't bottomed out.

Bob and Susan - 5-23-2010 at 11:20 AM

i was wrong again...

the truck is worth $5000
with the shell

toy2.jpg - 18kB

woody with a view - 5-23-2010 at 11:38 AM

Bob

i just checked my 03 trd 4x4 sr5 access cab with a shell. good condition is $10.5k excellent condition is $11.6k from a private party.

check the link:

http://www.kbb.com/kbb/UsedCars/PricingReport.aspx?WebCatego...

classicbajabronco - 5-23-2010 at 11:52 AM

Ranchos suck...period

Bilstiens are great and limetime guaranteed..as was early demonstrated above.

ARB offroad has a line of shocks and suspension systems that will greatly improve the ride of your toyota. I had their suspension on my 1989 range rover classic. It increased the ride height1.5 inches and the ride was much improved both on/offroad. the sytem ran $660 for all 4 shocks and all 4 coil springs. The brand name is OLD MAN EMU.

I just installed the 2nd OLD MAN EMU system on our 1991 toyota 4runner. This system cost $740 including new torsion bars for the front, new coil springs in the rear, 4 new shocks and a new steering stabilized. the 4runner now sits 1.5" higher and has greater articulation and a 400lb increase in load capabilities. They make these systems for many different vehicles.

here is the link.
http://www.arb.com./products/old-man-emu-suspension/

The US headquarters are just out of Seattle.

The difference is night and day. i jumped about a 1' off the ground a few days back and teh landing was smooooooth. Not that I would reccommend this.

These systems are designed for the Australian Outback and for what I can see that is just about as brutal as baja...if not more so. Check out their other items such as air pumps. ARB is serious about offroad. As I am sure many of the offroaders on this forum can attest!

I for one give these systems 2 thumbs up

[Edited on 5-23-2010 by classicbajabronco]

Bob and Susan - 5-23-2010 at 02:59 PM

sorry woody
i can buy them all day for 5k

the thing you have to look at is...
is it worth the money to invest into an old truck or get a new one

cars are a BAD investment

you are buying a house so DO NOT buy a new one :light:

woody with a view - 5-23-2010 at 03:16 PM

i won't buy a new one, house or truck. if you can buy them all day let's go into business. you buy em and i'll sell em. split 70/30 to you....

i like the fact that my old truck cost me 1/3 the cost of new. still has 1/2 it's life ahead of me. all of its problems are known, can't say that about a new truck!

classicbajabronco - 5-23-2010 at 03:26 PM

It also depends on how much work you have done on the car. If the car has had several $1000 invested recently a few bucks for good shocks will make your ride last longer. Replacement value is what you need to look at. if you go out and buy $5k cars all day...your going to get a pile of lemons.

I for one don't look at a car as an investment....it is a necessity. unless you like walking in 100 degree heat with all your crap on your back.

I wouldn't look at a house in Mulege as an good investment either for that matter, unless you like seeing your investment float down the river. But investments are not he reason most of us are here. In fact I dont see any house in baja as a good investment as we have lost 2 to hurricanes ourselves, and another was cleaned out by burglers. It is an investment in sanity and lifestyle!!

The guys looking for shock advice, ...it doesn't much matter what the vehicle is worth..New shocks will make his ride last longer, be safer as well as more comfortable. And it will hopefully put off the need for a new vehicle purchase in the next news so he can concentrate on the house...

best of luck on the house purchase!! :yes:

just my .02

$5k wont touch this.....

woody with a view - 5-23-2010 at 04:55 PM

tundra (Large).jpg - 44kB

bigzaggin - 5-24-2010 at 07:40 AM

David K. - did you throw the Ride Rites on front & rear or rear only? I made a few calls to some friends and was shocked to discover how many of them already had those on. I missed that boat...

And Woody - I hear you. The most dependable Baja car I have ever had and far from finished.

David K - 5-24-2010 at 07:53 PM

No, rear only... that was the weak part in the larger, second generation Tacoma. The Execs saw that MOST Tacomas don't go off road, and so they gave it a car like ride. The fronts are coil over shocks/ springs.

There was a TSB (Tech. Service Bulletin) on the rough rear ride and Toyota would have (and will still if under warantee) put the heavy duty or extra leaf springs on (Access Cab and Double Cab)... I learned about that TSB after I got my 2010 Tacoma (whose springs are better).

bigzaggin - 6-11-2010 at 11:09 AM

Okay, I pulled the trigger...5100's front/rear + Ride Rites. Truck feels GREAT...really solid (of course, I'm talking about city speed bumps, but I can tell she'll go great down south).

So - David K or whomever - two questions:

1.) How big of a pain is adjusting the lift? I know you can't just do it in your garage w/o some major tools... I certainly don't need a lift for where I live year round, but if I just wanted to try a Baja run with it, am I just looking at an hour or so at mechanic?

2.) Regarding Ride Rites: Assuming I have a pretty full truck bed (supplies for a 7 day run - ice, beers, ice, beers, etc.), have you found a sweet spot PSI for inflation or do you just eyeball it?

DianaT - 6-11-2010 at 02:48 PM

Just a plug for KYB shocks and all lifetime guarantees.

The first set we had on the front of our 2003 Tundra lasted about 100,000 miles----trips to Baja, but had not bought the house yet.

Second set lasted 55,000 miles, BUT they honored the lifetime guarantee and we only had to pay for the installation. The washboard out here and the pot hole heaven road from Vizcaino to the turn off to BA wore out the rubber gasket--- all of sudden the squeak was AWFUL. (not sure where the gasket was because I know very little about shocks)

So hope do keep all your paper work as it sounds like you are going to own your Tundra as long as we will probably own ours.

Bob and Susan - 6-11-2010 at 03:03 PM

"lifetime guarantees" :lol:

"plug for KYB shocks"
bad in 55k :lol:

David K - 6-11-2010 at 03:06 PM

DT, it sounds like he already did the change... said truck feels great.

bigzaggin, I not sure if I understand what you are asking... ?

To adjust the lift/ firmness (in back) you just add air!

My simple setup had two fill lines located on each side of the license plate... A very short puff of air will raise the back.

I would say the mimimum/ normal unloaded pressure would be 15 psi... The max is 100, but NEVER go that high, you won't need to and it could damage the axle.

The most I ever ran was 45 psi and my Tacoma was a couple inches higher, unloaded. With a heavy load the suspension was perfect, never bottomed out... off road. Most often I ran them at 25-30 psi for most Baja trips

The front 5100's are adjustable, but I never needed to change the front suspension, so I can't tell you how.

DianaT - 6-11-2010 at 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bob and Susan
"lifetime guarantees" :lol:

"plug for KYB shocks"
bad in 55k :lol:

Of course those lifetime guarantees do not go with the truck if it is sold. They just don't expect anyone to keep a vehicle as long as we keep ours or drive the horrible roads so often. ----have used a few other lifetime guarantees.

So if they keep coming free of charge, we will keep using them. :yes:

Bob and Susan - 6-11-2010 at 03:15 PM

you're still paying and paying and paying for installation

get a better shock

DianaT - 6-11-2010 at 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bob and Susan
you're still paying and paying and paying for installation

get a better shock

Only once----- I hope we do not own this for another 55000 miles as it will then be well over 200,000 miles---then again, we could leave it here for just a Baja truck and we did own the last truck for over 200,000 miles before it was stolen.

woody with a view - 6-11-2010 at 04:13 PM

you can't just adjust the 5100's to a higher notch. it will destroy your CV joints due to the extreme angles. maybe up 1 notch ONLY and you'll be okay. you will need to do a differential drop modification if you go higher than the 2nd notch. do a google search and you will be amazed.....

just leave them as they are and enjoy them.

monoloco - 6-11-2010 at 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bob and Susan
sorry woody
i can buy them all day for 5k

the thing you have to look at is...
is it worth the money to invest into an old truck or get a new one

cars are a BAD investment

you are buying a house so DO NOT buy a new one :light:

I'd like to know where you can buy them for 5k because I've been looking for one and they are all north of 10k around here in Oregon.

bigzaggin - 6-11-2010 at 07:08 PM

David - the first question was regarding listing the Billsteins (should have made that clear), but Woody chimed in with the answer I was expecting. I kind of just wanted to TRY a lift just for the helluva it, but doesn't sound worth the effort.

But thanks for the Ride Rite tips. Mine has the same twin valves in the back...eager to try it out (heading to Asuncion area next week).

Bob and Susan - 6-11-2010 at 07:18 PM

"i can buy them all day for 5k"
or less
used car auction in the inland empire

just looked at one at a dealer for 6k
what do you think he paid
2.5k?

people "give" them to car dealers in trades

woody with a view - 6-11-2010 at 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bigzaggin
David - the first question was regarding listing the Billsteins (should have made that clear), but Woody chimed in with the answer I was expecting. I kind of just wanted to TRY a lift just for the helluva it, but doesn't sound worth the effort.

But thanks for the Ride Rite tips. Mine has the same twin valves in the back...eager to try it out (heading to Asuncion area next week).

while fully loaded my air bags have stopped the bottom out problems. when you get camp set up you should let the pressure down to about 15 pounds (with no cargo) or the ride will be horrendous. just air up when your ready to go home. even a foot pump can easily pump 50-60 pounds pretty fast. you should have a quick compressor for your tires, tho!

mo' bettah, brah!

Bajamatic - 6-11-2010 at 11:42 PM

bigzaggin. nice tent.

David K - 6-12-2010 at 10:08 AM

Okay, sounds good... You will enjoy the Ride Rites... adjust your ride with air.

Toyota put better springs on the '10 and it never bottoms. The Santa Maria run was a great test... We had two ice chests in the back, and lots of bumps.

TMW - 6-12-2010 at 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by David K

Toyota put better springs on the '10 and it never bottoms. The Santa Maria run was a great test... We had two ice chests in the back, and lots of bumps.

DK you need to come down to chase Paul on a race or pre-run, that will load your truck. In the bed I carry two tool boxes, one with tools and one with various bike hardware, a box with oil and various fluids and misc items like spare bike tubes etc. second spare tire for the truck. I don't have time to drop the regular spare. A bottle jack with wood lift pieces. Spare front and rear wheels for bike. High lift jack. two thirty foot tow straps and one short strap. Some times an EZ up. Sometimes a portable winch with connectors etc. Depending maybe a pre-run bike. 5 gallons water. Two 5 gallon gas cans and one large ice chest that doubles as a bike stand. Min two lawn chairs.

In the back seat I have a fire ext. Coleman jump start battery unit. My coffee pot box with plates silverware stuff, Coleman burner and can of fuel and other misc. stuff like JB Quick Weld. Three race radios in one case. Radios maybe out depending on what I'm doing and going. Jackets and food.

If not staying in a hotel I have my cots and sleeping bags with me.

[Edited on 6-12-2010 by TW]

wessongroup - 6-12-2010 at 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DianaT

Quote:

Originally posted by Bob and Susan
"lifetime guarantees" :lol:

"plug for KYB shocks"
bad in 55k :lol:

Now that sounds like a good selling point... will check them out.. Thanks...

what type

wessongroup - 6-12-2010 at 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by TW

Quote:

Originally posted by David K

Toyota put better springs on the '10 and it never bottoms. The Santa Maria run was a great test... We had two ice chests in the back, and lots of bumps.

Have just started looking... nothing as hard as you guy's put on them ... will be on the "pavement" most all the time..

What you running on?.... plus I'm really cheap.. really

Thanks

Ride Rites

Lee - 6-12-2010 at 02:07 PM

I have airbags front and rear on a '06 F350. Originally had one air valve front and one rear. Can't think of a situation where one bag would be filled with more or less air -- only the same pressure -- so one valve for 2 bags saves time. Ran it this way for a month and decided to go with an onboard air compressor and air gauge inside the cab -- a flip of a switch fills the front or rear, or deflates. I like the convenience over doing it manually.

I keep the bags at about 10-15psi, generally. The bags lose about 5psi (normal) a month.

David K - 6-12-2010 at 02:41 PM

I think I read somewhere that if they weren't on seperate fill lines, the pressure could change as you made sharp turns (if they were connected together).

I am not sure I buy that answer... but the Ride Rite kit had two lines and two fill valves for the two bags.

David K - 6-12-2010 at 02:45 PM

Wesson, are you asking me 'what type'? If so, I need more info... what type of what?

Running on? Like roads? You know what I drive on... the badder the road, the better the destination!

My 2 Ride Rites, my rear 5100s, and all installed at Off Road Warehouse back in 2007 was about $800. Money well spent for the results I got.

wessongroup - 6-12-2010 at 03:04 PM

DK, have down what you're using, .... saw TW post and it sounded like he was using something that could not be broken... was just curious.. right now down to the KYB, and Monroe.. (yeah I know, but life time warranty kinda makes me feel good) and I'm not going to be going where you guys go... just something for this old 86 Bronco.. that is riding on nothing... hits good on pot holes.. really good.. but, will not be putting in "Bilstein's" unless I can get them here in Mexico really cheap... to high priced for me... seeing folks putting a lot of money into shocks.. that could be better spend ...... fishing poles, beer, bait, beer, bait.. you know the good stuff

Must say that the application of QuiteCoat has really knocked down the noise level tremendously.. waiting for the door and tailgate door strikers and rubber for the windows too .. should be "styling" in a while.. really fun.. have only gotten to drive it once in the past 4 weeks.. over 1000 miles and it has not used any oil..

After the shocks and rubber.. that is it.. the radio works.. what else can one ask for.. plus it has wind wings.. the best thing old cars used to have.. Immediate cooling... having fun, and thanks to all.. and all the dogs just love it too.. hanging out the back.. baking there butts off... :lol:

fishabductor - 6-13-2010 at 06:10 AM

TW.

That sounds like a lot of stuff, but most of the items seem small and light.

What rig are you loading this into? What is the estimated weight.

when I come back from a townrun... I have 8 5gallon water jugs I fill, 6 6-gallon fuel tanks, a Big white cooler, a bottle jack, a tool box, a full size spare, 2 people, a few boxes of canned goods, and usually a box or two from homedepot and a 50# bag of dog food .. tire pump...etc

This all is inside a 1991 4runner, which is also a fairly heavy rig. I run Old Man Emu Shocks, Springs and torsion bars, they are made in Australia for expeditions in the outback and work excellent in baja, and the system runs $700...if you install it yourself...which took me about 4 hours.

TMW - 6-13-2010 at 10:23 AM

The truck is a 2004 GMC Z71. I have not weighted it but the tool boxes are about 100 lbs and 50 lbs. The fluid box is also about 50 lbs. The portable winch box is about 75lbs. EZ up, high lift jack and water tank maybe 75 lbs. Spare wheel is a LT285/75R16 on the rim maybe 75lbs+. Two gas cans full 70 lbs. Ice chest 50 lbs when full. Various other misc items 100 lbs total. Spare bike 300lbs. About 900 to 1000 lbs with the bike. That's in the bed. If I have my camping gear (two people) add another 100 lbs. Plus any fire wood.

I should add there are two people in the truck and room in the back seat for another depending on when we change riders etc. If we're chasing we usually leave our bags in the hotel room if we have one otherwise they come with us.

The truck has a 2 inch leveling kit installed by Performence Off-Road here in Bakersfield. It included new torsion bar keys, upper A arms, different idler arm, sway bar spacers, modified Rancho shocks and add a leaf in the rear.

[Edited on 6-13-2010 by TW]

[Edited on 6-13-2010 by TW]

BigWooo - 12-12-2010 at 07:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by BigWooo
I have Rancho 9000's. Living in Baja our truck has spent a lot of time on washboard lately and they seem to be holding up. I have a question though, everyone seems to rave about Bilstein shocks. What makes them so much better??

Just thought I'd resurrect this post to say my Rancho 9000's blew out after only one year of full time Baja use. One front, and one rear. When I removed them, it sounded like broken glass inside and they had zero resistance. They have about 180 miles of washboard, and around 4500 miles of pavement. All Mexico. Not a very good track record. They have had some weight on them as we towed our cargo trailer a couple times down during the move, but I'd think they would last longer than that.

Based on what I've read here and gearhead websites, I just installed Bilsteins. Hopefully they will last a little longer.

Now I can agree with the previous posts: "Stay away from Rancho's"

Barry A. - 12-12-2010 at 09:56 AM

Some of our Ranger vehicles in the Southern CA desert had "RANCHOS", and we had problems with them, also. From being too stiff which destroyed frame components, to just blowing out like yours did.

I have Bilstein's & KYB's all around on my personal 4x4's with no problems yet. (8 years +)

Just MY experience, of course.

Barry

TMW - 12-12-2010 at 10:15 AM

Bilstein has an external reservoir shock 5150 that fits many trucks and I understand they have a new one coming out that's better that is being tested on a chevy of a friend of mine and will be available the end of the year or early next year. Fox also makes an external too in the $200 range. The external is a much better shock if you do a lot of off road driving.

tripledigitken - 12-12-2010 at 10:18 AM

Another vote for Bilstein and KYB's. We have KYB Monomax on our F250 currently and they work fine. Can't speak to their longevity though, as they have been on only 10,000 miles. The Bilsteins lasted 60,000 miles.

Don't skip quality over price

Ken Cooke - 12-12-2010 at 01:07 PM

If longetivity is your biggest concern, why not purchase a set of rebuildable King shocks? They are now made to OEM specs for non-lifted vehicles and can be rebuilt when the time comes. They aren't cheap like Ranchos, but can be serviced by either you or a technician when the time comes.

Ford King OEM Shocks:
http://www.kingshocks.com/ford-oem/

General Motors King OEM Shocks:
http://www.kingshocks.com/gm-oem/#tabs

Jeep King OEM Shocks:
http://www.kingshocks.com/jeep-oem/#tabs

Nissan King OEM Shocks:
http://www.kingshocks.com/nissan-oem/#tabs

Toyota King OEM Shocks:
http://www.kingshocks.com/toyota-oem/#tabs

watizname - 12-12-2010 at 01:32 PM

Air bags are the way to go, to increase payload. Put them on my 06, F150, and carry a 1500 lb popup with my wife and I and all of the associated "necessities" to Baja and offroad with no problem at 75 psi. They raise the rear end up, off of the springs, and there is no sway whatsoever. When empty, at 10 psi, the truck rides like a car again at home. Good to know about the Bilsteins, as I'm comming up for a shock replacement.

TMW - 12-12-2010 at 06:03 PM

The King shocks are expensive. For my GMC $800 each. Some of the Fox shocks are rebuildable too.

I'll post a link to a comparison between rebuilding a Fox and a King shock as soon as I can find it.

[Edited on 12-13-2010 by TW]