Building costs in Los Barriles

The typical Mexican Business Model...as volume goes down raise prices to make up lost revenue....for some reason they do not see higher prices lose more business.

Quote:

Originally posted by pepino Quote: Originally posted by Osprey Bob and Susan, more on that: I don't think it's just me on this. This peninsula is very slow to change prices on things like cement and rebar --- that is, they (and a whole lot of other things) went sky high before the economic dump, the lack of tourists/buyers began. Now, with little going on, no buyers, (AFTER SCITTY EIGHT MONTHS OF SELLING NOTHING) one might think the prices would come down. That's not happening down here -- it's like these things only go one way = up and up, then sit on the shelf for years at that same price rather than adjust to what's happening now. Maybe new house builders down here would be better served to buy goods in San Diego, have them transhiped. The typical Mexican Business Model...as volume goes down raise prices to make up lost revenue....for some reason they do not see higher prices lose more business.

"Our 666ft2 casita will run under $20k completed"

WOW incrediable!!!

be careful...
not all block is the same
not all sand is the same
not all gravel is the same
not all rebar is the same
not all welds are the same
all cement is the same

From the perspective of a 30 year plus tenured developer and state licensed GC, i watched the 3 plus years as Bob built his off grid resort Playa Frambes, incl many trips to observe/inspect his WIP (work in progress).

he did a REMARKABLE job considering he is not a builder by trade - and his selection of GC and Arch./eng. was superlative - he did not scrimp on costs. and got excellent quality at fair $$s as far as i have been privy. He is an experienced source now to expound on the vagaries of building in Baja.

i would have to agree with him that you have to watch what is supplied. some guys make their own non fired 8x8x16 CMU blocks in Mulege using sea water - they crush like bugs - i have used them for steps cause they're cheap and they disentegrate as soon as they get sun.

sand can be variously river, beach or screened/washed - it makes a diff to me depending on if using as base, in conc, mortar or for top coat stucco finish.

some rebar is old and already rusted. i would prefer new and even oiled if i could get it.

you might need welding if you are doing embeds for steel headers or rails for large OH doors, or other plates and hangars like for poured decks and pans. i would want a certified welder on any structural work i was doing.

bagged cement is going to say what it is re: lime ratios etc. Some for mortar will be ID'd as such vs reg portland type II for eg.
if they use the mortar mix on flat work it will spall, crack, shrink and fail prematurely. A crew will just use whatever is dropped if they are not supervised. To them it is all the same.

and pre-mix when avail is not what i would want, ever.

that being said - i look forward to visiting at Costille soon and when down i hope to meet and see what you might do for a prospective buyer/builder.

the last item on my bucket list is to build something in baja and hang around a lot.... once i get there i don't really need anything else.

"with stained concrete counters and foor"

one of my fav details.
yes i look forward to it.

but can you add a SF to your bldg so it won't have the devil's influence??

Quote:

Originally posted by fishabductor Bob, Never said I was a contractor. I am a construction engineer/manager/property manager. When I do my job right I lower the cost and improve the quality of the structure. I am not trying to make money on the project, I get paid by the hour. You have some good points, I am sure you have built a fine home. You are talking about the same thing as me on many of the items. Including Blocks rebar( drag surface rusted rebar down a gravel road on a chain and it will be cleaner than the store sells) all rebar is the same if you get a #3 bar in say 30ksi which is the norm here, (sure its not the same thing as a 50kpi bar, or a epoxy coated bar) Don't get sand from near the beach..get it from up an arroyo. You just happen to be insinuating that I am building an a casita using the cheapest materials in can get my hands on and that is absolutely not the case. All materials have came from Construrama. The materials cost to date for the structure Is $67101.53 pesos or or $5243usd. That includes all block, rebar, #9 wire, sand, Gravel ($5500 pesos/14m2) tie wire, Cement, Septic tubing, water lines, elect boxes...it does not include windows, doors, paint, kitchen cabinets or appliances. however I have $6500usd left to cover these items before I get to $20k. The door/window quote is $1200usd., they are made to fit aluminum. The total costs of labor is $110,000pesos or $8593.75 usd. If you think the materials are $20k for a 666ft2 casita, you must be that gringo without a clue with the fat wallet I was talking about who gets screwed. I am married into a local family and have a lot of family and connections...I am a true Local!!! I live here full time have a mexican son. Having connections such as these helps tremendously, I am 80% fluent in spanish as well, with my immediate family being 100% billingual. All this adds up to savings the "normal gringos here" can't touch. I am sure there are many others here with similar connections, who can attest. When I buy property I get the local price, I know what the average gringos pay.... Thank god I am not an average gringo. capt. I can't say I have ever seen a fired CMU. They are constructed in a press, and then hydrated until the cement cures, unlike a red clay brick which is fired. capt. u2u me if you come this way. No offense meant to anyone...but you can build a quality casita for under $20k and I have all the facturas to prove it. If you want granite counter tops, high end fixtures...etc. this will cost you. What we are building is a nice casita for our caretakers, with stained concrete counters and foor. Min. tile work..ect. [Edited on 6-12-2010 by fishabductor]

fishabductor, ignore the naysayers & skeptics. I understand & agree totally with what you're saying. I've built 3 casas in the La Paz area over the past 11 years. By far the most cost effective one was #2 where I was my own general contractor, negotiated my own pricing for materials & got them locked in for the duration by committing to total amounts up front. Granted, my finished product was nowhere in the $20 - 45 sq ft range & it wasn't as small or "rustic" as the 666 sq ft casita you've mentioned. I opted for tile, custom wood cabinets, 2 interior fireplaces, 17,000 liter cistern, 2-car garage, perimeter wall, pool, etc, etc, etc. I also designed each of the casas I've built myself, right down to the electrical & saved a bundle in Arq. fees.

I totally agree with your philosophy of negotiating your own materials prices & being on-site every day to stop things before they reach the point of no return; it also helps keep materials from "getting feet" & walking off the site! It IS possible to build a well-constructed, structurally sound basic structure for much lower costs without having an Arq. involved until final design submittal. The person doing the negotiating & overseeing just needs to have a working knowledge of various tools like a level, plumb bob, square, tape measure & know how to read a blueprint.

Of course materials & labor costs can vary greatly, depending on the site location, higher materials & lower labor costs for more remote areas.

Oh yeah, that person also needs to be tenacious as hell to ensure their instructions are followed, as well as the ability to know & act when they aren't!

we just got lucky...and susan was there full time

my builder had many finished projects to show me and people that had used him were happy

having someone oversee the construction is a good idea if you have the extra cash to burn...

otherwise that cash could be used later if necessary

if fishabductor has a track record and
could show referances maybe he's a tool you could use
but
if he "goofs" you still have to pay

i never realized the la ribera area was growing right now
is there all that construction going on in this economy?

punta chivato is dead
so is the bay

maybe next year...go dodgers

gnukid, respectfully, IMO, it doesn't matter where someone acquires a knowledge of good solid construction techniques, standards & practices....I believe that the English words level, straight, square, fair price, correct, safe, win/win situation, good value for the money, among many other translate into many different languages.

Any fluent Nomad Spanish speakers who know me personally have my permission to rate my mangled Spanglish....second language skills do not come as easily for everyone! I do joke with & cajole the workers, but 90% of them look to the 10% who laughed for a translation from my Espanol to Espanol they understand! IMO, it's more important that I TRY to converse in their language, I treat them respectfully as individuals, and when I ask something of them they aren't familiar with, I'm out in the hot sun showing them how I want something done. I've had workers, and an English fluent jefe, tell me something I wanted couldn't be done; I explained to the jefe exactly how it COULD be done & the workers still stood there shaking their heads muttering "Es no posible!" I kicked into my fractured Spanglish & mime & showed the workers that it was possible & exactly how. Smiles & nods eventually appeared all around as comprehension dawned! I got what I'd originally asked for and the workers learned something new to be used another day!

gnukid, I'll be the first to agree with you that the lifestyle here is much more outdoor oriented, it's totally unlike the lifestyle & the housing amenities I had in the Pacific Northwest. My biggest concessions were no dining room & a LOT more windows! You DO need good quality, well-engineered structural integrity here....it's especially appreciated during hurricane season. I don't know about you, but I'm not about to attempt to sit out a hurricane in a palapa!

This is my permanent full-time home, I LIVE here, I'm not on vacation!

And FWIW, I don't use A/C....I built with foam blocks & in 3 summers, my interior temperature has yet to exceed 82 degrees & I'm comfortable using a fan to move the air.

I could survive in a pallet board casita with dirt floors & a tin roof, but I choose not to & thankfully I've been able to live in comfort....not luxury & not extravagantly, by any means!

Our two cultures have different standards & expectations. That's not to say one is right/wrong/better....merely different.

Soon????? Did he just fall off the back of a recently-arrived turnip truck? I'm not going back & rereading this entire thread to verify my suspicions, but I got the distinct impression he's been doing this here for a while.

From MY knothole, it appears that fishabductor qualifies & would be a value-added asset for many new & raw recruits.

As I read these consruction threads, here and elsewhere, I am learning more and more! As I said, nuts and bolts, no problem. Cement, concrete, compaction,rebar, household electric and plumbing, me no savy! I will be picking through everyone and anyones experience. There is a lot to learn, but I will have plenty of time!!

"and use tubes with water to mark level position"......WHAAAAT???!!

why don't you just buy a frickin 8' level?? like everyone else uses?? yes they are readily available in baja....

what the hell is a tubes with water device look like??

"A water tube is a level...with the added benefit that it can also be used as a transit builders level.(tripod level with a meter rod)"

sorry - i say BS - i use modern tools, they are available including one as basic to proper building as a sight level w/ transite to take elevational shots, which is my standard.
these other contraptions are too Rube Goldbergesque for me.

if i end up hiring you, you can borrow mine.
i know... you won't need it.
LOL

never

said i had a lazer (sic) level.
i don't.
my subs on the other hand that need them, have them.

the pharohs could have learned much from the Mexicans.
but they had Aliens .....only a different kind.

Quote:

Originally posted by fishabductor Here is what a water level is, and what it does. I have a modern one that has electronic device on one end that beeps when the water level hits the level mark. I also have a $1000 builders transit, that does the same thing. however. the water level is a $25 item that can be thrown in the dirt, stepped on, thrown in the back of a truck, loaned out to workers and if it gets stolen...oh well. My Transit is in a storage locker for that reason. http://www.buildeazy.com/fp_waterlevel.html Remember K.I.S.S. Keep It Simple Stupid This applies in MX as well as anywhere else.. If you require a laser level on your project, the price will probably be higher than $45/ft2. Gnukid... The guy that posted that said he knows you...seems to be on par with your commentary towards me....what is it...you can dish it out...but not take it? and all I said thanks for the input and welcome...should I have bashed him like you attempted to do to me? Personal Attacks!!!!!!!!!! [Edited on 6-16-2010 by fishabductor]

Water levels are one of the most accurate level methods and are very cheap to make. All you need is a milk jug and some clear plastic tubing, water ALWAY'S seeks it's own level. This was the method boat builders used for hundreds of years and is still good today, yeah there are lasers and all that stuff but a water level will do you just fine.

Quote:

Originally posted by fishabductor Gnukid... The guy that posted that said he knows you...seems to be on par with your commentary towards me....what is it...you can dish it out...but not take it? and all I said thanks for the input and welcome...should I have bashed him like you attempted to do to me? Personal Attacks!!!!!!!!!! [Edited on 6-16-2010 by fishabductor]

Here ya go, Mike.

http://www.factsfacts.com/MyHomeRepair/WaterLevel.htm

Tomorrow's lesson will be Hammer. That's H-A-M-M-E-R....Hammer.
Jes kiddin', Bro.

Sounds like someone needs to lay off the Sterno.

I guess we'll rule out Normal.

Na, even most idiots can spell idiot.

MY FAVORITE hand TOOL of all time used in finish work is called a "lesbian rule"
who here knows what it is and what it does.
how it got its name well you can guess.

old timers will know. young guys...maybe not.

I got a headache just scrolling through that! Heady stuff. Should probably have the wife decipher it for me!

Quote:

Originally posted by bajabass I got a headache just scrolling through that! Heady stuff. Should probably have the wife decipher it for me!

Just ask Mike. He's a feelosopher.

Hint: "rule" as in RULER!!! Oh just google "lesbian rule"!

Quote:

Originally posted by longlegsinlapaz just google "lesbian rule"!

I've seen them with the adjustible edge looking like a line of finish nails, each moving independently.
I don't know how I've lived my long life without one.

Help

OK....so you arn't Kat. Nice to meet you anyway.

"what planet have you been on?"

not yours apparently..gracias a dios!!

what does my location have to do with your choice of worker bee tools anyway? for your little yard projects....whoopie....do you have a tonka truck and loader too? you could build a sand box....

from what i can gather the "water level" , while it certainly must be functional, is not nearly as easy to use as a builders level.
i bet i can take way more elevational shots faster and note them than what you can do with your tube....

Quote:

Originally posted by capt. mike "what planet have you been on?" not yours apparently..gracias a dios!! what does my location have to do with your choice of worker bee tools anyway? for your little yard projects....whoopie....do you have a tonka truck and loader too? you could build a sand box.... from what i can gather the "water level" , while it certainly must be functional, is not nearly as easy to use as a builders level. i bet i can take way more elevational shots faster and note them than what you can do with your tube....

capt cracker:
try using your 3-ft-long carpenters level across 50 foot distance

60 feet of poly tubing is smaller/cheaper than transit, and more accurate than $30 laser level that loses calibration on same day it leaves china mfg plant

so you think a water level would work in space station in absence of gravity?

[Edited on 6-19-2010 by mtgoat666]