BajaNomad

Dog with epilepsy

Dave - 6-21-2010 at 03:20 AM

Our 10-year-old dalmatian has epilepsy. She was diagnosed a month ago after we witnessed a seizure. Since then, she's been fine except yesterday morning she had a seizure followed by another one today at 2am. Her seizures are brief, lasting less than 1 minute followed by 30 plus minutes of confusion, agitation, and voracious thirst. She then clams down and appears normal.

Questions:

The vet told us the only effective treatment is Valium or Phenobarbitol and once we start she's on it for life. I'm very hesitant to drug the dog and have her live her remaining years as a zombie. Just doesn't sound like the moral thing to do. Any one here have experience with an epileptic dog they could share?

Thanks,
Dave

Bob and Susan - 6-21-2010 at 05:49 AM

dave there are 40 different types of epilepsy...

since you say the dog just started having them...
and is 10 years old

have you changed her diet in the last few months?
it could be just a food additive:light:

remember all those dogs who died
from eating that dry dog food a couple of years ago

or

you may need to change her diet:light:
the chemicals in her food may be "overfilling the glass"
causing the seizures

in my case...i have STOPPED drinking diet coke...
and i LOVE that stuff

the asparmente (sp) was causing me to have seizures
like your dog...it wasn't to good :o:o

k-rico - 6-21-2010 at 05:50 AM

Dave,

I have a friend with an epileptic dog. I'll ask her what she does.

A daily pill that would stop the seizures might be the most humane way to go. Those drugs don't cause "zombie" side effects unless you use too much, plenty of people take valium like pills every day and phenobarbitol is the classic med for epilepsy.

If you had a child what would you do?

Same with the dog.

karenintx - 6-21-2010 at 05:53 AM

Found some great info with a quick google of "epilepsy in dogs."

It aslo talk about diet like Bob mentioned.

Good Luck

Jack Swords - 6-21-2010 at 06:52 AM

Dave, our dog Reno has epilepsy. She has had if for the past 10 years. It is genetic in her case and we have had a very involved vet from the first seizure. She started at 6 month old with just a "tic" and it grew into ugly seizures. Research with Texas A&M and our vet started with phenobarbital and we used that for less than a year. We still had seizures monthly. Then we became aware of potassium bromide which was used for seizures before drug companies became involved (an old remedy). With the Pb we cut her phenobarbital down significantly and reduced the risk of liver damage as Pb is just a salt and excreted by the kidneys. We don't have a zombie dog, she is now over 12 years old (an Aussie) and after 10 years of seizures for the past two we have had none. She spends several months in La Paz with us, runs the beaches, sails, and travels whereever we go. The Pb needs to be compounded by a pharmacy or the vet. Do find a vet whio is familiar with canine epilepsy (google this term also for more info), and good luck. Our dog's breeder cranked out several pups with epilepsy before determining the cause (bloodlines). My sister in law also got one and had similar experiences as I stated above. PB has been a great improvement in treatment. Good luck.

Selkie - 6-21-2010 at 07:06 AM

Idiopathic epilepsy will show up in dogs when they are much younger. Bloodwork is always run to rule out other causes of seizures, such as liver disease and infectious diseases. Start thinking about a brain tumor when an old animal starts seizuring. You can consult with a veterinary neurologist ,which can get expensive, but any veterinarian should be able to rule out many causes of seizures. Even if a dog has a brain tumor, it can be made comfortable for a while with phenobarbital and/or potassium bromide. Yes, they will be groggy for about 2 weeks before they become more tolerant to the drugs. A brain tumor will grow, gradually making the seizures worse, including personality changes and partial paralysis, depending on where it's located. In the end, you will have to consider quality of life issues. Good luck.
Gail T. (DVM)

Jack Swords - 6-21-2010 at 07:53 AM

Noprob: of course you're right. Been doing this for 10 years, Kbr is compounded and the phenobarbital is the pill. Headed out the door to go backpacking, but felt I needed to respond to Dave on the canine epilepsy. Our dog is bright, intelligent, very active, and loving. She is not at all drowsy nor zombie-like. We were worried about possible effects on her lifespan, but at twelve, going on 13, doing great. As posted above, Reno started seizures at 6 months, not as an older dog. Again, good luck.

Thanks for the correction.

DianaT - 6-21-2010 at 08:05 AM

Many years ago I had a shephard/husky mix that developed epilepsy at the age of 10. The vet said it was not that uncommon for older dogs to develop epilepsy. We put him on phenobarbital and he adjusted well.

We used to joke about giving Charlie his doggie downers, but it did not make him a zombie---I had worried about the same thing. He remained a playful and lovable creature for his last 4 years.

Good luck
Diana

Iflyfish - 6-21-2010 at 09:27 AM

In my view it is cruel NOT to treat epilepsy in man or beast. Why let the dog suffer? Some people take phenobarbital for entertainment, not my cup of tea, but there you go!

Iflyfish

Excellent...

Dave - 6-21-2010 at 11:05 AM

Advice by all!!! Thanks.

We've determined the best course is to get a second opinion.

Will report back when we have additional info.

Again, thanks for your knowledgeable and caring responses.

Dave

A Couple More Possibilities

Gypsy Jan - 6-21-2010 at 12:17 PM

The woman in San Diego that has the big white Great Dane that held a Guinness record for tallest dog said that his epileptic seizures were controlled with acupuncture and diet.

Our young white Great Dane had a couple of Grand Mal seizures, and we couldn't find anything wrong, neurologically. We put him on a homemade dog food diet. It has been a year now since the last seizure (crossing fingers and keeping good thoughts).

If you want, I can probably get some names of acupuncturists who will work with dogs; I have read of many success stories.

TMW - 6-21-2010 at 01:17 PM

Back inthe late 80s we has a German Shepard that started having seizures at about 1 yr. Didn't know the dogs history because he just walked into my garage at about 3-4 month old and we couldn't find the owner. After his first seizure the vet put him on phenobarbital and dilantin. It controlled the seizures in that they occured about every month or two at regular intervals. We just kept him from hitting his head on anything and comforted him when he woke up. At age 4 he developed diabetes and we had him put to sleep.

He had an interesting temperment. Anyone not white and he would throw a fit. Growl and bare teeth and his hair would standup. Except for little kids of any color, they could crawl all over him, pull his hair or tail or ears etc. and he would not do anything but take it.

wessongroup - 6-21-2010 at 01:32 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Gypsy Jan
The woman in San Diego that has the big white Great Dane that held a Guinness record for tallest dog said that his epileptic seizures were controlled with acupuncture and diet.

Our young white Great Dane had a couple of Grand Mal seizures, and we couldn't find anything wrong, neurologically. We put him on a homemade dog food diet. It has been a year now since the last seizure (crossing fingers and keeping good thoughts).

If you want, I can probably get some names of acupuncturists who will work with dogs; I have read of many success stories.


Hey, thanks much.. never even thought of that for an animal.. have certainly heard of it for our species...

It all helps... again.. thanks

No Zombie

MrBillM - 6-21-2010 at 03:04 PM

Our "Baja Born-in the Wild" Dog "Red" had his first seizure at about 1 1/2 years old. Since it happened in July and he'd been playing hard with a neighbor dog, we thought it to be a Heat Stroke, but after a couple more (both at night when he was resting), we took him to the Vet and she prescribed Phenobarbital.

Red was on Phenobarbital continually until he died just short of 14 last December.

He led a lively and energetic life for almost all of that time and was a priceless treasure that blessed our lives.

I also had a neighbor's dog who was on Phenobarbital for many years due to seizures. He was no Zombie, either.

had a 15 year old labrador with epilipsy

skipowell - 6-21-2010 at 06:39 PM

We just lost our 15 yr old Choc lab to old age. She had epilipsy since she was 3 years old. She took Phenobarbitol, when she was younger she required a higher dosage but as she got older we actually decreased her dosage by half.
We had her blood checked yearly as she was also taking Rimadyl in her last few years.
I would not hesitate on giving another dog phenobarbitol if it was necessary as Maggie lived a good quality life as a result of it.
We always got her prescription filled at Costco ( it ran about $12 for 90 days) much cheaper than the vet. It is a controlled substance so we could only get 90 days at a time.

Good luck

wessongroup - 6-21-2010 at 08:33 PM

Really amazing how common this is with dogs... never new...

Update

Dave - 6-22-2010 at 10:38 PM

Epilepsy...maybe-maybe not.

New doc says it also might be lyme disease or a reaction to Frontline.

We'd been having a problem with ticks so app. one month ago we dosed her with Frontline. She had a seizure shortly after. Turns out this is really nasty stuff. He DOES NOT advise using this on pets. If the directions say you don't want this in your system think about what it does to your pet.

Will know more after blood tests return.

Again, thanks for all your comments and support.

Dave

wessongroup - 6-22-2010 at 11:46 PM

Thanks Dave, a really good public service message... as your Vet is absolutely correct.. the active ingredient "Fipronil" should be carefully evaluated by the user, before being used on their pet

Few years back the wife starting to use one of these products and after looking at the active ingredient we looked into an alternative material.. know its a registered product, and there is not a lot of "direct" evidence of harm to the animals (dogs).. but, not sure how many Vet's are going to run blood work unless looking for something along these lines.. and the other issues associated with this product is enough to "not" use it ....

The competition is Advantage... uses "imidacloprid", which is at this time not to be found as toxic to mammals .. however, not so for honey bees, as is true with "Fipronil" also

We tend to not really think about the "flea and tick" shampoos and topical applications, but they do contain "pesticides" and is some cases one should consider how it may effect they animal ....

Hope it works out ok for your dog .... and don't feel guilty, as we did..

I was upset that I had not even read the label on the product ...... before application.. just got curious.. after the application and read the ingredients ..

[Edited on 6-23-2010 by wessongroup]

Frontline

DianaT - 6-23-2010 at 09:54 AM

This is interesting since we have used frontline on both of our dogs for years and they are now about 8 and 9. It has always made the big one a little sick for a day so we give him a lower dose.

It is what our VET recommends as we live in two areas with lots of fleas and are often in places with lots of ticks. We never have a flea nor a tick problem but..........

now I am wondering about the safety. Then again, maybe it is a balancing act since ticks can cause some very nasty diseases---and fleas carry heartworm, but they are also on heartworm preventative.

And the big dog is one who really reacts with just one flea bite---terrible skin problems.

Hope to hear more about all of this. Need to keep the fleas and the ticks away, but want them to be safe from the cure.

Dave, hope your fur baby is better and has no further problems!

[Edited on 6-23-2010 by DianaT]

Update

Dave - 7-17-2010 at 12:43 PM

Further tests determined Ruby had a tumor which progressed rapidly. Sadly, we put her down today.

A sweet dog who lived a good life never wanting for anything.

Again, thanks for all your supportive comments and suggestions.

Timo1 - 7-17-2010 at 01:13 PM

Dave
That really sux big time
Been there and know how it feels
Keep the chin up

DianaT - 7-17-2010 at 01:37 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Dave
Further tests determined Ruby had a tumor which progressed rapidly. Sadly, we put her down today.

A sweet dog who lived a good life never wanting for anything.

Again, thanks for all your supportive comments and suggestions.


So very, very sad and so difficult for you even though you did the right thing.

A little piece of our hearts die whenever we lose one of our beloved fur friends, and needing to make that necessary decision just makes it more difficult.

After we had to put down our last fur baby, I found this poem

If It Should Be

If it should be that I grow frail and weak
And pain prevents my peaceful sleep,
Then you must do what must be done
When this last battle can't be won.

You will be sad, I understand,
Selfishness might stay your hand.
But on this day, more than the rest,
Your love and friendship take the test.

We've had so many happy years,
That what's to come can hold no fears.
You'd not want me to suffer, So
When the time comes, please let me go.

Take me where my needs they'll tend.
Only -- stay with me until the end.
Hold me firm and speak to me,
Until my eyes no longer see.

I know, in time, you too will see
It is a kindness that you do for me.
Although my tail its last has waved,
From pain and suffering I've been saved.

Do not grieve it should be you
Who must decide this thing to do.
We've been so close, we two, these years....
Don't let your heart hold any tears.
---Anonymous

Our hearts and thoughts are with you.

John and Diane

[Edited on 7-17-2010 by DianaT]

So Sorry for Your Loss

Gypsy Jan - 7-17-2010 at 04:09 PM

tripledigitken - 7-17-2010 at 04:29 PM

Sorry Dave!:(

Susan, Diana, Jan, Ken and Timo...

Dave - 7-18-2010 at 08:40 AM

Thank you for your kindness. Your comforting thoughts are appreciated.

Keri - 7-18-2010 at 08:44 AM

So Sorry Dave,
The Rainbow Bridge Story

Just this side of Heaven is a place called Rainbow Bridge. When an animal dies that has been especially close to someone here, that pet goes to Rainbow Bridge.

There are meadows and hills for all of our special friends so they can run and play together. There is plenty of food and water and sunshine, and our friends are warm and comfortable. All the animals who had been ill and old are restored to health and vigor; those who were hurt or maimed are made whole and strong again, just as we remember them in our dreams of days and time gone by.

The animals are happy and content, except for one small thing: they miss someone very special to them; who had to be left behind.

They all run and play together, but the day comes when one suddenly stops and looks into the distance. The bright eyes are intent; the eager body quivers. Suddenly he begins to break from the group, flying over the green grass, his legs carrying him faster and faster. YOU have been spotted, and when you and your special friend finally meet, you cling together in joyous reunion, never to be parted again. The happy kisses rain upon your face; your hands again caress the beloved head, and you look once more into the trusting eyes of your pet, so long gone from your life but never absent from your heart.

THEN YOU CROSS RAINBOW BRIDGE TOGETHER....

Anonymous