BajaNomad - Making an Off-Road Truck Better

Making an Off-Road Truck Better

TMW - 7-3-2010 at 09:17 AM

After replacing my front shocks on my GMC Z71 for about the 4th time. It was those four trips thru Gonzaga in the past year that did these in. I started thinking about the new Ford Raptor and why doesn't the manufatures simply make a better truck for Off-Road. Many off road racers have a pre-runner with at least dual shocks all around and several more inches of wheel travel. But for those that can't afford a $50,000 to $100,000 pre-runner we need something closer to our check books.

I was thinking about my Z71 and wonder why couldn't GM come out with a Z71 SOF (Super Off Road). Do a 2-3 inch lift or leveling kit. Add dual shocks all around like a Bilstein 5160 series. Beef up the steering componets and go to a size or two larger tires. I'd also like to see them move the lower rear shock mount further to the outside or raise them even to the axle housing. Also eleminate the anti-lock brakes and antisway bar for off road use.

With the exception to the dual shocks I've done it to my truck (not the rear shock mount) at a cost about $2500. It appears that the weak link is the shocks. An external shock like the 5160 would be better and two at least on the front would be much better.

I'm just thinking out loud on a lazy day. What do you think.

surfer jim - 7-3-2010 at 10:21 AM

My first guess is there would be too many legal issues.

I can hear a lawyer now saying how no anti -lock brake and sway bar caused the drunk driver to roll over. :mad:

Now forgetting about all that I've often wondered about those mods myself. Didn't older (Fords?) pickups have dual front shocks from factory? Relocating shock mounts should be no big deal either( doesn't Toyota have them on top?)

They already have heavy duty parts from 1 ton and above trucks that could be used.

Part of the problem is that when Detroit thinks about "off-road" they think of.....paint jobs....decals......crome....ORANGE seats....bigger mirrors...flashy wheels....floormats :no:

Dodge did a good job with the "Power Wagon" option starting in 2005.It is more rock crawler than pre-runner but still a great package.

[Edited on 7-3-2010 by surfer jim]

TMW - 7-3-2010 at 02:53 PM

I had a 93 Toyota 4x4 PU and the rear shocks did not extend below the axle. The new Tacomas do but they are near the wheel kind of like what Ford did on their newer trucks.

On my Toyota I had heavy duty torsion bars and add a leaf in the rear. When I would go off road I often disconnected the sway bar. When I was down for the NORRA race going out to the pit below San Ignacio one of the sway bar mounts lost the bolts on my GMC, so I took it off. I had it off for about 6 weeks during which time I drove back to Colorado. Just recently put it back on. I never felt a reason to have it. Swinging the steering wheel left and right I can't tell the difference. I do have a fairly stiff suspension which I think is why. Never could tell on the Toyota either, but again a stiff suspension.

The anti lock brakes are a sore spot for me. On my GMC it's easy to pull the 60 amp fuse in the engine compartment. But I had a 07 Toyota Tacoma work truck before I retired and going off road in the mountains it was a pain in the behind. It may have and I know the newer Tacomas switch out of ABS when in 4 wheel low. I just think there should be a switch to turn it off.

I believe some of the Ford Broncos had dual front shocks, early 90s I think.

TMW - 7-3-2010 at 03:47 PM

I was running Rancho RS5136. They got so hot it melted the rubber boot chasing during the NORRA race. I Just put a set of ProComp's on until I can sort out the Bilstein 5160s for my truck.

bajalou - 7-3-2010 at 03:55 PM

My 93 Bronco has duel front shocks.

bigboy - 7-3-2010 at 04:51 PM

My 89 and 95 Broncos came stock from the factory with dual front shocks.

fishabductor - 7-3-2010 at 05:41 PM

My 66 bronco didn't. It does now however.

TW..I was wondering how putting dual shocks on front could total $2500. Most dual shock hoops run about $300-400 at most, and Shocks are under $100(Bilstein 5100's) each. $ would be $400 with tax.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&...

The total should have been about $700. If you had them installed I'd guess it'd be $1000, as it's a easy install.

But $2500!!! That's being put over the barrel in my book. Where the shocks and hoops gold plated?

[Edited on 7-4-2010 by fishabductor]

fishabductor - 7-4-2010 at 07:16 AM

whistler,

Just reread and figured out what he meant.
I was thinking $2500 for dual shocks????

TMW - 7-4-2010 at 07:38 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by whistler
TW,other than the shock failures were you satisfied with the way your suspension performed?You must have experienced shock fade when you got the shock so hot you melted the boot.If you were happy with the performance ,a resevoir shock should cure your shock failure.

Yes I'm am very happy with the suspension. I had it done by Performance Off Road here in Bakersfield in Jan of 2008. I agree about the resevoir shock.

fishabductor - 7-4-2010 at 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by whistler
fishabductor,granted this is a top of the line race shock but checkout the price for one 9300 Black Hawk shock.

WTF ..........$2488.87..

......... I don't think I'll be racing anytime soon!!!!

fishabductor - 7-4-2010 at 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by whistler
Yes,but if you buy it from "Offroad Warehouse",you get free shipping!

Well, hell what am I waiting for. That there's a bargain!!

I wonder if free shipping means they'll ship them to the eastcape?

Cypress - 7-4-2010 at 02:03 PM

I'm with fishabductor on this. $2488.87 for shocks? :?:

Have spent that much on a whole vehicle, shocks included, and drove it for a while.

The term "More money than sense." pops into mind. But what the heck? :biggrin:

fishabductor - 7-4-2010 at 03:01 PM

I hear you Cypress. I have 2 vehicles that have provided service for over 2 years now that cost less than one of those shocks. One cost $2200 and the other $2400. They both have a few years left on them easily.

$10,000 for a set of 4, now we are talking a nice truck.

BajaGringo - 7-4-2010 at 03:53 PM

I have an older F250 4x4 HD. It is a great truck but I have been toying with the idea of installing dual shocks. Reading this thread has me thinking about going ahead and doing it.

Where do you guys buy your conversion kits for the dual shock setups?

fishabductor - 7-4-2010 at 04:10 PM

You can get the conversion kits thru most offroad shops. Fabtech, rancho, superlift and many other companies make them. Try ebay

here is a ebay sale I just found. not sure if it's the right year.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/80-97-Ford-F250-F350-Front-Du...

BajaGringo - 7-5-2010 at 04:13 PM

I have had several folks tell me that dual shocks would help me get through the 15km of washboard between the highway and my house. Anybody here disagree with that???

Baja12valve - 7-5-2010 at 05:01 PM

I have the rancho in-cab-adjustable shocks and I have had no issues with them at all. I have driven out to Cabo San Quintin a bunch of times. I set them on the softest setting, tires @ 30 psi and off I go. I can go as fast as I want, although I put it in 4wd. Truck handles great.

Baja12valve - 7-5-2010 at 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by whistler
Baja12valve,the Dodges with the 5 link and coil springs is a much better design.You probably have 10 inches of travel stock.I think my 1 ton Dodge has 11-12 inches with the KORE suspension.

My suspension is stock except for the shocks. I have about 4-5" of travel in the front before I hit the rubber bumper stop, and the same in the rear. For some reason, it works great in dirt/offroad. I have read that others are not happy with theirs, but I am with mine. I have no rattles, not one, and I just blitz over the washboard with impunity.

bajajeffrey - 7-5-2010 at 11:04 PM

I have dual shocks on the front of a 90GMC suburban (rancho 9000) and single 9000s in the rear, Many trips to Gonzaga and beyond cartopping a 14' valco and the only problem I have had is a busted shock mount. once every few years I change the shock bushings and that tightens everything up. one rancho 9000 is abuot 90 bucks.

TMW - 7-6-2010 at 07:41 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajajeffrey
I have dual shocks on the front of a 90GMC suburban (rancho 9000) and single 9000s in the rear, Many trips to Gonzaga and beyond cartopping a 14' valco and the only problem I have had is a busted shock mount. once every few years I change the shock bushings and that tightens everything up. one rancho 9000 is abuot 90 bucks.

I would bet the busted shock mount was the rear and probably the passenger side. Had that happen on my 91 chevy 4x4. Broke it on the road out of San Ignacio.

Desertbull - 7-6-2010 at 11:38 AM

Quote:

Not trying to start a big ol' debate, but ONE trip with Rancho 9000's on the Gonzaga road and the shock oil is DONE! The shock oil heats up and breaks down. I've been there and done this with that brand. You need to utilize a reservoir shock that is servicable and rebuildable. After a couple trips you change the oil, adjust the shock while servicing if need be and your good to go. Rancho now makes a reservoir shock as does FOX, King, Pro Comp etc...

In fact, FOX manufactures replacement OEM shocks for all makes and models of trucks nowadays for a very fair price. I do the Gonzaga road alot including two days ago, it's nice and gnarly rock base with some nice washboard.

Your Rancho's are way past worn out by now...that's prolly why you think they are so good now... :biggrin:

Desertbull - 7-6-2010 at 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by whistler
BajaGringo, for what reason do you think you need dual shocks?Just curious.My 92 Ford diesel use to break front shock mounts.It would crack around the bolts holding it to the frame.Went to 5/8 bolts and titanium doublers.

Whistler is 100 percent correct.

You don't need dual shock configuration. You just need a good reservoir shock. And you don't need a full blown race shock, just a well-built reservoir shock that you can service in your garage by anyone who can use a crescent wrench...

:biggrin:

edm1 - 7-6-2010 at 12:19 PM

I put Freightliner (class 6 truck) shocks for my van/motorhome and work great.

Ken Cooke - 7-6-2010 at 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by surfer jim
Part of the problem is that when Detroit thinks about "off-road" they think of.....paint jobs....decals......crome....ORANGE seats....bigger mirrors...flashy wheels....floormats :no:

Jeep® Wrangler “J8 Sarge”
The Jeep Wrangler “J8 Sarge” is a military version of the new JK platform built as a non-combat military support vehicle. Built from the 116-inch wheelbase version, the “J8 Sarge” is offered in either two-door or four-door configurations. Special J8-only structural upgrades in the body and chassis combine to increase the GVWR rating to 7,400 pounds.

The platform can be configured as a light-troop carrier, ambulance or cargo truck. Other notable features include the Dana 60 rear axle mounted on leaf springs, larger front-disc brakes and exclusive J8-only 17 x 8 steel wheels with a larger 5 x 5.5-inch bolt pattern. The rear differential is equipped with Trac-Lok limited slip device (the front is open).

The powertrain is the VM 2.8-liter 4-cylinder turbo-diesel engine producing 158 horsepower and 295 lb.-ft. of torque. It’s mated to a five-speed automatic transmission. The four-wheel-drive system is the Command-Trac with both high and low-range gearing.

Other features unique to the “J8 Sarge” are heavy-duty steel bumpers each equipped with two forged military-spec 'helicopter hooks' (rated at 1.5 GVWR each), a hood-mounted air intake snorkel, dual rear-mounted battery boxes and heavy-duty spring hood latches.

The “J8 Sarge” has been upgraded with 1.25-inch Superlift front coil spacers, BF Goodrich Mud-Terrain tires and custom cargo top. It’s painted olive drab with military markings.

The Jeep J8 is manufactured in a Chrysler LLC joint-venture facility in Cairo. There are currently no plans to offer the J8 for retail sale in the North American market. The “J8 Sarge” premiered at Moab Jeep Safari 2008.

TMW - 7-8-2010 at 07:54 AM

This looks like a pretty good deal to me.

15" of wheel travel, with 4wd!
4.5” wider per side
Tubular upper control arm, with 1" uniball
Boxed plate lower control arm
Bolt-on spindle extension, Improves geometry and adds strength
Removes torsion bars
Optional bypass shock mount
Retains factory alignment
Powdercoated 'Gunmetal Grey'

Suspension Kit Includes:

Tubular upper control arms, with Bushings and Uniballs Installed
Boxed plate lower control arms with Bushings and Balljoints Installed
Spindle extension/brace
Shock Towers with Crossbrace
Complete Axles with Custom heat treated 4340 shafts.
930 race series inner CV Joints with Custom Adaptor
Steering Relay Bar Modified for Rod Ends
Custom Tie Rod Adjusteers
Brake lines, Limit straps, bolt kit
Suspension Kit Price: $3500.00

2.5 c/o shocks + coils: $1200.00pr

2.0 x 3 Hydraulic Bumpstops with Frame Mounts: $450pr

wessongroup - 7-8-2010 at 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by edm1
I put Freightliner (class 6 truck) shocks for my van/motorhome and work great.

that is some kind of set up you have created there... good for you.. really like folks taking off on their own ... and saw DK's pic's of you in real time conditions.. outstanding...

edm1 - 7-8-2010 at 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by wessongroup

Quote:

Originally posted by edm1
I put Freightliner (class 6 truck) shocks for my van/motorhome and work great.

that is some kind of set up you have created there... good for you.. really like folks taking off on their own ... and saw DK's pic's of you in real time conditions.. outstanding...

Thank you Wesson, some of us like to make things outside of the ordinary, and take things to the limit before we learn.

TMW - 7-12-2010 at 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by whistler
Way over the top for most people.No matter what vehicle you own,I would purchase a system that was vehicle specific(as opposed to companies that build systems for 30 different vehicles) and who race or compete.You know they have done extensive testing.

I remember when the Dixon brothers built their first Ranger to race. From their web site all their products are for Fords except for the one chevy system. I wonder why they made an exception?

wessongroup - 7-12-2010 at 08:20 AM

Truly enjoy watching what "these" vehicle are capable of doing with the developments which have been made over the past 50 years... just super what can be done.. they can all most fly ....

TMW - 7-12-2010 at 01:17 PM

Your right there has been a lot of improvments to off road vehicles over the years. In off-road racing the Trophy Trucks are the cream of the crop with huge wheel travel and horse power. The weird thing is that over the period since the TT was introduced the class one cars offen beat them with less whell travel and horse power. The only reason I can think why that is happening is that the TT drivers keep going faster and faster until they hit something that breaks something. I think a TT driver that just ran a smart pace and race without the down time would win. As Gary Bailey says slow down to go faster.

bajalou - 7-13-2010 at 07:48 AM

Here is a link to some pictures of a European off road group -

http://picasaweb.google.com/petitgros2010

Quite a variety of styles - How do you think they would do in Baja?

TMW - 7-13-2010 at 04:20 PM

It would probably be a hoot to drive one of the big guys. What was it 93 or 94 someone drove a kenworth in the 1000. I understand it had satellite data being analyzed at the factory or some test location. I think it only went 180 miles.

fishabductor - 7-13-2010 at 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajalou
Here is a link to some pictures of a European off road group -

http://picasaweb.google.com/petitgros2010

Quite a variety of styles - How do you think they would do in Baja?

They may make it through the course, but the race would have been long over

monoloco - 7-14-2010 at 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Desertbull

Quote:

I have had the Fox reservoir shocks on my F350 for 70,000 Baja miles now with no problems.