BajaNomad - Documentary on the negative impact of tourist developments in BCS

Documentary on the negative impact of tourist developments in BCS

chnlisle - 7-13-2010 at 03:51 PM

Documentary on the negative impact of tourist developments in BCS. It will be presented in La Paz on July 20, calle Revolución No. 590, corner of Juárez.

http://colectivopericu.wordpress.com/2010/07/12/el-mas-impor...

fishabductor - 7-13-2010 at 04:08 PM

I know the guy in dreads as well as the old rancher, his father...They have been fighting for their land for the last 5 years. The cops even tried to grab him and rough him up...They are good people...

[Edited on 7-13-2010 by fishabductor]

Bajahowodd - 7-13-2010 at 04:32 PM

The pity is that all around the world, money talks. As the industrialized world witnesses an ever growing concentration of the wealth, it won't be too far away when it's not just peasants who will feel the wrath of the uncaring monied class.

Skeet/Loreto - 7-13-2010 at 04:35 PM

It is time to start shooting the Sunabithces!!

slimshady - 7-13-2010 at 05:06 PM

There is a place in baja for tourist development and to think that it is all wrong is bad thinking. I do enjoy the remoteness of many of the baja communities and the vast areas empty of civilization. Yet I enjoy the ability to have the finer things in life with all the modern amenities that go with it.

It's a balance that must be respected where tourist developments and nature interact, are kept separate and protected.

Many of those people are employed by such developments and survive on the tourist dollar. Perhaps the issue is more employer related such as low wages. The Hotels charge U.S. rates and pay their employees mexican wages. Increase the employees wages and their lives get better and they don't need to get water from a bucket.

Good job

Dave - 7-13-2010 at 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
It is time to start shooting the Sunabithces!!

Spoken like a man of:

Kindness, respectfulness, tolerance and peace.

DavidE - 7-13-2010 at 05:56 PM

Nice Folks Here. Glad I Am Thousands Of Miles DISTANT!

Mexicorn - 7-13-2010 at 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by slimshady
There is a place in baja for tourist development and to think that it is all wrong is bad thinking. I do enjoy the remoteness of many of the baja communities and the vast areas empty of civilization. Yet I enjoy the ability to have the finer things in life with all the modern amenities that go with it.

It's a balance that must be respected where tourist developments and nature interact, are kept separate and protected.

Many of those people are employed by such developments and survive on the tourist dollar. Perhaps the issue is more employer related such as low wages. The Hotels charge U.S. rates and pay their employees mexican wages. Increase the employees wages and their lives get better and they don't need to get water from a bucket.

Well said....
Balance is needed not knee jerk politics.

Osprey - 7-13-2010 at 06:44 PM

I'm in this one so I expect all you good Nomads to tune in. I'm the one in the beard, speaking English (best I can).

If nothing else this film might point up the negative aspects of the all inclusive resorts --- the employees are from Spain, the Visa debit card charge goes there to a foreign bank account, all the guests stay on the grounds, all the locals lose. There are 17 in Cabo and soon there will be 30. The film is about the 45 new ones which have their plans in to the building departments in Baja Sur. The film, the groups, the meetings all ask the question: "Do the people living on or near the beaches now have a say in what happens to their villages? If they do, what would they have the regulators do?"

slimshady - 7-13-2010 at 06:52 PM

I am not a fan of the all inclusive resort hotels. I travel to baja to see, feel, smell, and enjoy another location and culture.I once stayed at the RIU Santa Fe and it felt like a cruise ship on land where everyone was getting shuffled around en masse from buffet to buffet. There are some pretty hefty gringoes that sure love the buffets.

Regardless when staying at one of the Corridor Hotels, one must venture into the towns of SJD or Cabo and eat at local restaurants and not that overpriced slop they serve at hotels.

Paula - 7-13-2010 at 06:52 PM

Quote:

I think the key in many parts of Baja is tourism without "tourist developments".

Let's face it. It probably isn't possible to have the "finer things in life with all the amenities" while experiencing "the remoteness of Baja communities". You can have the "finer things" in Cabo, La Paz, Tijuana, Ensenada, and Rosarito. You can enjoy the remoteness in Mulege, San Ignacio, Asuncion, and many out of the way places on this amazing penninsula.

While I haven't seen the film, I think it is reasonable to assume that it speaks of the taking over of huge tracts of coastal land for the building of exclusive resorts. It is fairly clear that these developments have changed the life of local populations-- in some ways for the better, but mainly to the detriment of the locals. It seems unlikely that the developers will "increase the employee wages [so that] their lives get better". And so often the developments bring in people from the mainland rather than hire the locals who are not as well trained or experienced in hotel work.

Living in Loreto and seeing how Loreto Bay and Villas group have done little to improve the lives of long time Loretanos, I would like to see an emphasis on small scale tourism. It worked for a long time here, and I do think there are people who would happily avoid mega-resort destination travel to experience a laid back old style way of life with an emphasis on doing things the locals have done for years-- enjoy the natural beaches, fishing, bird watching, mule riding, swimming, snorkeling, and what have you. Staying in small local hotels, eating at everyday restaurants, meeting friendly people-- seeing life as it is lived in another place.

Maybe nobody gets rich, but the community benefits, and the people maintain their way of life. Tourism without development.

CABO

desertcpl - 7-13-2010 at 06:57 PM

I will not got into alot here , but what went on in Cabo was just plan B..S..

I first went to Cabo in the early 70s,, what a nice place, then a few times after that,, when me and the wife retired 10 years, I thought about buying a place and living there,, I could not believe what had happened, NO WAY was i going to buy and live there

Confused

Dave - 7-13-2010 at 07:06 PM

One gentleman says, "land possession must be respected."

Another woman..."The same thing happened in our village so we moved here."

Did these folks own this property, or were they squatters?

Paula - 7-13-2010 at 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave
One gentleman says, "land possession must be respected."

Another woman..."The same thing happened in our village so we moved here."

Did these folks own this property, or were they squatters?

Same might be said of some developers :dudette:

Udo - 7-13-2010 at 08:24 PM

Where was this "documentary" published, other than YOU TUBE?

I am not in favor of the developers and I am pro-locals. However there needs to be much more from the locals for the 1:25 documentary to be somewhat effective on a world-wide scale.
45 seconds of great photography and 40 seconds of dialog of which has to be viewed several times so that one may draw some conclusion.
:no:

fishabductor - 7-13-2010 at 08:31 PM

I know these guys and the story. It is about some big money guys from TJ trying to push out this family who have ranched this land for generations.
They even sent out police thugs to either ruff him up or kill him. He thinks they were going to kill him. a mutual friend of ours happened to drive by and saw two guys kicking and pushing the guy with dreadlocks into a car. Our friend stopped to help and had a pistol shoved into his face. The guy with dreadlocks was handcuffed in front and he ran and dove into the surf and treaded water until dark, then swam in and cut off the cuffs!!!

[Edited on 7-14-2010 by fishabductor]

Woooosh - 7-14-2010 at 12:11 AM

Quote:

once it's deemed "Federal Zone" by the tidal measurements- only a Federal title is valid- it belongs to Mexico. Then you go through a Concesion process with Mexico City to get the Federal Title to either protect or develop.

This video looked more like "anti-land banditos" than anti-tourism to me. The problem is lack of planning on the cities parts. People are fencing off Federal zone beach and claiming it private all the time. Just take guervos. The build quickly and then pay a few thousand dollar fine to Mexico City for having done it. The fine is much cheaper than the legal approval process and is way faster. By the time people realize their beach/home/village is gone- it's too late to stop it.

Osprey - 7-14-2010 at 07:27 AM

The video presentation is not about squatters or Cabo Pulmo. It is aimed at groups of interested citizens who would be, might be impacted by the many grand tourist resorts now in the planning stage. It will shine a much needed light on the regulators who make decisions that effect the area of development forever. The Mexican people just want them to act responsibly, look at the "big picture". I have not seen the video. Don't watch it. Then you'll be more surprised when you next visit your old favorite deserted stretch of beach when you see, (from 10 miles away) a new Maya Dolphin Captain Kidd Treasure Island Disney Water World and Mega-kega Time Spin Island Paradise Resorts Inc.

[Edited on 7-14-2010 by Osprey]

Iflyfish - 7-14-2010 at 07:42 AM

Where will this be screened? With all of the hype that developments like this generate it will be interesting to see the dark side of all of this exposed. The hype will get lots of exposure. There are consequences to development and it is all not good.

This looks like a high dollar, high quality, good production values documentary. I wonder if it will be aired on PBS?

Keep us posted, I want to see it.

Iflyfish

Woooosh - 7-14-2010 at 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Osprey
The video presentation is not about squatters or Cabo Pulmo. It is aimed at groups of interested citizens who would be, might be impacted by the many grand tourist resorts now in the planning stage. It will shine a much needed light on the regulators who make decisions that effect the area of development forever. The Mexican people just want them to act responsibly, look at the "big picture". I have not seen the video. Don't watch it. Then you'll be more surprised when you next visit your old favorite deserted stretch of beach when you see, (from 10 miles away) a new Maya Dolphin Captain Kidd Treasure Island Disney Water World and Mega-kega Time Spin Island Paradise Resorts Inc.

[Edited on 7-14-2010 by Osprey]

True in developed Baja Norte as well as remote locations. I can't get the city of Rosarito Beach to keep illegal resort condo buildings from being built on the Federal Zone beach in Downtown Rosarito, let alone people fight for it in remote locations. Seriously. One building went in that literally cuts the tourist beach in half- including the lifeguards access to patrol the beach. We battle every day to protect the beach from banditos for the use of all Rosaritenses- and we hold the Federal Title to the beach area we are protecting! The banditos come like c-ckroaches.

And what will Rosarito Beach be without a walkable beach? There is def. a disconnect in what "the people" believe to be true. People will tell you "Oh, no one can build here... it's Federal Zone." But when you point out a new building on it, they just shrug their shoulders and can't explain it." They really believe someone is protecting the beach for them, and a Federal Title for Federal Zone land is not enough without their being some enforcement behind it. But in reality the corruption runs too deep and the money reward for pulling a development deal on Federal Zone beach just too high.

Osprey - 7-14-2010 at 10:06 AM

These zona maritima takeovers are getting attention now and ending up in the courts through legal firms like CMDA in DF. The key is to keep the pressure on EVERYBODY INVOLVED IN THE PROCESS of subverting the ZM laws. Our local resort got stung enough about it that this very morning I walked in the water all the way to their new jetty to fish. You can't imagine what we had to go through to be left alone to do just that. Never give up, never give in.

Woooosh - 7-14-2010 at 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Osprey
These zona maritima takeovers are getting attention now and ending up in the courts through legal firms like CMDA in DF. The key is to keep the pressure on EVERYBODY INVOLVED IN THE PROCESS of subverting the ZM laws. Our local resort got stung enough about it that this very morning I walked in the water all the way to their new jetty to fish. You can't imagine what we had to go through to be left alone to do just that. Never give up, never give in.

If anyone knows a contact in Rosarito Beach (municipal, media or legal) to help us keep the pressure on this locally, please let us know. E-mail contacts, anything. The local police support the squatters right to stay, even when shown the Federal Title for protection from development. What more can we do to keep the beach open to the public and accessible to everyone in Rosarito Beach if a Federal FMZ title isn't enough? We honestly don't know the next step or if it that step even exists yet.

We did do a You Tube video that ran on the AFN website, as many nomads will recall. That video got PROFEPA to inspect, but a year later the squatters are still there and now are trying to sell it. Is this a total waste of time and money?

[Edited on 7-14-2010 by Woooosh]

Osprey - 7-14-2010 at 12:56 PM

Wooosh, I'll make some inquiries for you and get back to you PM. In the meantime I just found out the conservation presentation that is to be held July 20 at 8PM will be in La Paz. I thought it was a Youtube presentation but it is a formal general meeting format on the 20th.

I suppose the presentation will be scheduled to be shown to the public in Loreto, Mulege, Cabo, San Jose, etc. etc. to interested groups bent on learning more about resort encroatchment in Baja California. I'll try to get the schedule, the dates and the places and post those here.

[Edited on 7-14-2010 by Osprey]

Dave - 7-14-2010 at 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Woooosh
That video got PROFEPA to inspect, but a year later the squatters are still there and now are trying to sell it. Is this a total waste of time and money?

Have your attorney find the right person in the right agency and bribe them. Your problems will go away. I'd wait until the new administration takes office. More bang for your buck.

Woooosh - 7-14-2010 at 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave

Quote:

Originally posted by Woooosh
That video got PROFEPA to inspect, but a year later the squatters are still there and now are trying to sell it. Is this a total waste of time and money?

Have your attorney find the right person in the right agency and bribe them. Your problems will go away. I'd wait until the new administration takes office. More bang for your buck.

Got a price list? lol. I figure that's what the people the squatters are working with are doing. I'm just not willing to get into a bidding war with the Mexican gov't to protect the beach for it's own people. The gov't gave us the FMZ concession title for the land under the squatters three years ago (after waiting 2 more years for it to go through), I just can't figure out how to get them off so we can turn it into a neighborhood beach park. I honestly don't know what basis the squatters have to stay or try to sell it except for that they think they can get away with it. But this kind of stuff is when I say "You can't fix stupid" and just give up before it eats you up (was there until this thread actually).

What I need is a friend in the Mexican Army that will clear the land on behalf of the people and federal gov't (and keep the corrupt Rosarito Beach police involved from interfering). It is federal land after all. PROFEPA is a fully autonomous entity independent of political appointments and elections swings. Don't know if that's a better or worse thing actually.

[Edited on 7-14-2010 by Woooosh]

chnlisle - 7-14-2010 at 02:22 PM

Usted necesita un relampago judío, tipo mexicana

There's a Mexican style?

Dave - 7-14-2010 at 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by chnlisle
Usted necesita un relampago judío, tipo mexicana

Is that where you forget to get the insurance policy? :rolleyes:

chnlisle - 7-14-2010 at 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave
Is that where you forget to get the insurance policy?

Así es como funciona.

http://picasaweb.google.com/amigodebaja/PlayaArenaFireAug132...

http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=42274#pid4623...

http://bajaforums.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/3196024271/m/814105...

Woooosh - 7-14-2010 at 06:11 PM

They are already so afraid I am going to have it bulldozed when they aren't there (or struck by "lightning") that the squatter actually pays the tourist police to check it every few hours and sign a paper the police sign and keep in the mailbox. She even gave the cop a hug once when she saw me watching- geeesh. Who won't the clean, honest and improved police force of Rosarito work for?