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Whitefly

bacquito - 7-21-2010 at 10:27 PM

While exercising at the Centro de Deportes I came across a Hybiscus plant infested with White (Isuspect Bemisia spp). White fly causes estensive crop damage around the world and is difficult to control.

Whitefly usually feeds on the undersides of leaves. The white filamentous material is from the Whitefly.

vandenberg - 7-22-2010 at 06:46 AM

White fly also don't seem to show a preference for certain plants. Once they show, they seem to be everywhere and are a b-tch to even remotely control. I have them all through my citrus, besides about every other plant we have.

Keri - 7-22-2010 at 06:54 AM

Our hybicus looks like that. We couldn't get rid of the white fly. Mike finally cut the plant all the way back . It came back beautiful but........ It's back with a vengence. How do you get rid of it.k

Mexicorn - 7-22-2010 at 07:00 AM

Lady bugs or spray your choice.

wessongroup - 7-22-2010 at 07:07 AM

Try ladybugs.. very effective.. and since a youngster have always like them

Have had very good success with them.. most effective chemical means no longer exists due to the other problems which were found associated with them...

The ladybugs can be purchased over the counter in the States... and I would imagine that some of the growers down here must use them.. as I have seen "green houses" over by Primo Tapia.. IPM, (Integrated Pest Mangement) should be in operation down in Mexico too..

http://books.google.com/books?id=tMRtkcTWA1QC&pg=PA275&a...

hope it helps.. they are "pesky" critters...

Just saw corn, posted the same.. will the post as it has a little additional information about the concept and that it is used by large grows too, in Mexico

But, you absolutely correct Mexicorn.. and was not sure if Home Depot carried them here ... good information... thanks

Also, so really good shots of the little devils.. and they do drive one nuts.. must keep an eye out... every day.. for pest.. another tool .. sticky cards.. get to see who is out visiting your plants.. id them and develop treatment if necessary... a light soap mix can work also.. just use regular dish soap and wash the plants well daily.. it can work too.. but prefer the lady bugs.. they just eat them alive... :lol:

[Edited on 7-22-2010 by wessongroup] :lol:

[Edited on 7-22-2010 by wessongroup]

Mexicorn - 7-22-2010 at 07:08 AM

Yea you can pick them up at Home depot.

Mexitron - 7-22-2010 at 10:53 AM

That is actually the "Super White Fly" of I think Mexican origin that got into the states around 15 years ago...nasty stuff. when I was put in charge of the greenhouse at the Fort Worth Botanic Garden the place was infested with it. The former greenhouse person had tried biologicals (ie ladybugs) with little success apparently. Neem Oil didn't do squat, but the dishsoap as wesson mentioned helped a lot---I used it with a hose end sprayer (about a tblsp/gal) so the bugs would be covered with product AND be physically removed off the plant. However, you must be dutiful---there is no residual effect with dishsoap so it must be used often! What finally did work for the long haul and was relatively innocuous was a neonicotinoid called Safari---its a systemic derivative related to nicotine (a wondrous organic insecticide BTW, that's been used for a century under the moniker Black Leaf 40)---it came in a pellet form so no spraying--just a spoonful for each plant...great stuff! BTW you can make your own "Black leaf 40" by taking an old cigar and crushing it up into a gallon of water---let it sit overnight and voila! Very effective but no residual effect and DONT use it on any solanaceaous (tomato family) plants---it can occasionally harbor tobacco mosaic virus.

Wjitefly

bacquito - 7-22-2010 at 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mexitron
That is actually the "Super White Fly" of I think Mexican origin

I was hesitant in calling it Bemisia because of the color. We have alot of the Whitefly in Imperial County and I believe they are Bemisia. At any rate they are difficult insects to control regardless.

wessongroup - 7-22-2010 at 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bacquito

Quote:

Originally posted by Mexitron
That is actually the "Super White Fly" of I think Mexican origin

Been a number of years since I worked in the field.. can only guess on how effective current registered pesticides are on these little guy and others.. critters were hard to hold, even with the heavy duty stuff ... that was used way back in the day of DDT, Lindane etc .. and then the OP's and other materials.. which were then lost due to other reasons.. not sure how much is left out there for growers.. or are they using "wooden blocks" to kill them now..

Whitefly

bacquito - 7-22-2010 at 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by vandenberg
White fly also don't seem to show a preference for certain plants. Once they show, they seem to be everywhere and are a b-tch to even remotely control. I have them all through my citrus, besides about every other plant we have.

I'm no entomolgist but in working in the Imperial Valley for many years it seems to me that they become a problem for a season or so and then disappear or at least become less of a problem. It could be that predator insects build up during heavy Whitefly infestation and the predator insects control them. Eventually the Whitefly returns. As Mexitron mentioned, there are some insecticides that help.

bacquito - 7-22-2010 at 01:21 PM

Mexitron is correct. It appears to be Giant Whitefly originally described in Mexico.

http://cisr.ucr.edu/giant_whitefly.html

wessongroup - 7-22-2010 at 03:41 PM

Got to wondering what was left for greenhouse control of white files..

http://attra.ncat.org/attra-pub/gh-whitefly.html

A pretty good outline ...

Mexitron - 7-23-2010 at 06:03 AM

Good info wessongroup. Biologicals are definitely a prefered method of control...and they work fine in many situations (eg--conservatories) where the plants don't have to be perfect looking, or for agricultural situations where the foliage can be less than perfect as long as the fruit is unaffected. The main problem is that once the predators have eaten the prey there's nothing left so the population eventually falls back into a typical predator/ prey balance (consider the number of predators of Wildebeest versus the Wildebeest population---they don't make much of a dent). I guess you can continually re-release biologicals to keep the population high but I don't know how this affects cost. And there's also the dreaded decollate snail problem--they're great at controlling snails but when the snails are gone they go after the plants :lol:

Any more thoughts/experience you have on this would be great.

wessongroup - 7-23-2010 at 11:17 AM

Worked in Ag for 20 plus years, started with Cal Department of Food and Ag.. Pesticide enforcement in 1974 and was concurrently on contract with the EPA Region IX ... then moved into Financial Industry... in 1992, as I was starving.. Ag does not pay one anything.. it's a trade off they count on... folks like working in Ag.. and with the issues which develop in producing food and fiber...

Always love working in Ag work.. in the field.. can't say "sweeping fields" in El Centro was a fav... or some of the other.. but over all, just loved driving around out there after a "cut" of alfalfa ... early in the morning.. working with the aerial applicators and all the others in the Industry.. which is quite large.. still ... helped in the set up of IPM with others in this period, along with the Environmental Monitoring Unit, Worker Health and Safety, Registration .. and ended working mostly on special projects.. hated to leave .. but the "politics" became just to much to deal with.. for me, and thought if by going to work for the Ag Chem Industry perhaps could effect greater change.. wrong..

Used to spend time in El Centro.. long ago knew Claude Finnel the old Ag Commissioner and if Steve Birdsall is still alive as Commissioner .. we used to go pound a few down at the "Buick" .. if that is still there.. also one of the best places I ever had a steak dinner was the old Adobe in Brawley, which burnt down ... use to stay at the Barbara Worth Country Club when in down

Remember it all fondly... a really great time in my life.. working in Ag.. my favorite job of all I ever worked.. except one .. Air traffic Control, but that was for totally different reasons.. you for sure were not outside ... always dark, smoky,crowed and really noisy... but, never a dull moment, except mid shift...

It's all good.. but, really did like the ag work.. was a PCA .. knew a lot of folks from working with the State in all the Counties and State.. from the Fed side ... and then in working in private industry... which was Regional and National in scope.. not field work.. sad to say.. moved from being where it was grown to where it was decided how it would be grown...

Used know a lot of folks in the nursery industry too.. Don't know if he is still alive, but the guy that used to take care of all of Heinz Nursery George Guzman .. we went to school together and took ent together .. along with working on some special projects ... with Hinze and the whole industries problems which they faced on production in side

Greenhouse production of plants was difficult as the Registrants (Dow, Mobay et al) would not put as much work on small speciality crops as they would the big money crops ... we were always trying to get Sect. 18's for the folks ... they were being ham strung all the time for effective products in controlling pests.. plus dealing with Worker Safety issues too

Again it brings back good memories.. of a lot of good people and working on the development of evolving; laws and regulations to address many issues associated with using hazardous materials in the production for Food and Fiber within the Untied States. while protecting the environment and public health and safety industries

Mexitron - 7-23-2010 at 12:11 PM

Wesson--Interesting career! I've threatened to go Ag a couple times but have stayed with landscaping as my bread and butter...better that way, my artistic side needs the outlet. Got my B.S. at Cal Poly SLO in Botany/Horticulture...took Crop Management with Dr. Hallet, VP of testing at Dow (but he was still nice enough to teach us about the newly emerging IPM!). Relearned some of the basics when I moved to Texas four years ago and worked at the botanic garden...was fun but city jobs weren't for me so now I'm back to landscape design/install, which, uh, really sucks in the summer here...putrid hot! I told my wife I'm working out west next summer, no more of this...let's hope.

Barry A. - 7-23-2010 at 12:51 PM

Wesson-------the "Buick" is long gone in El Centro, I spent a lot of time there also----but I too ate at the restaurants you mention----and Camachos out in the country----'The Hacienda' by the airport in Imperial (now in El Centro)------and countless fine restaurants in Mexicali. Lived in El Centro from 1973 thru 1986, and unlike many, really liked the place, and the Imperial Valley in general----very exciting, and it is the Ag business that made it that way. I had several friends in the Ag business there, mostly hay. Lots of neat old Farming Families (names I can't seem to bring to mind) Menville Brothers was one. Danny Robertson was another. Still have friends there that we visit with occasionally------all retired from BLM, and just stayed. Winters are gorgeous---summers not so much. :lol:

Barry

bacquito - 7-23-2010 at 01:42 PM

Wessongroup-Steve Birdsall recently retired and the new Commissioner is Connie Valenzuela. I also worked in PUE for the County of Imperial and retired 4+ years ago. I was their Bard/Winterhaven inspector and in fact still work part time for the County inspecting and signing Phytosanitary Certifications for foreign exports and issuing Certificate of Origin.
I went to Cal Poly ,SLO studying Soil Science under Dr. Logan Carter and went on to the U. of Nevada and continued my studies of Soil Science-obtained an M.S. in 1969.
I worked for a couple of pesticides mfgs. for about 13 years before I realized I liked govt. work.
My wife and I have a house in Ensenada and Yuma, Az. I like Yuma alot more than Imperial Valley. But, I like Ensenada alot more than either Yuma or Imperial Valley.

wessongroup - 7-23-2010 at 02:04 PM

Mexiton.. one group used to work with.. which I liked a lot.. Golf Course Superintends Association..

http://www.gcsaa.org/

To bad I don't know anyone anymore.. think it was 1991 was asked to give a speech at their convention in New Orleans.. quite a treat.. and an experience.. got all these invites to see all these really cool golf courses all over the United States..

They have a really strong organization for their people, plus I have just love Golf Courses.. they are so beautiful, with all that green grass, putting greens. and all the rest..

A pretty hard job to get.. and comes with one hell of a lot of pressure..

Have see grown men cry over infestations of "fairy ring" on their greens .... and others things you could not believe just to get things "looking"good ...

Off topic of off topic..

Once had an experience up in Merced County with "Gallow Farms"

Had one worker die and a whole bunch get sick..

The guy that was running the "grapes" for the ranch was the son-in-law for Mr Gallow.. he was a fashion design major from San Francisco, who had married into the family... they gave him a job.. take care of the "grapes"...

This guy did not have a clue..

Well, what happened ... he got an infestation of "sphinx moth" and it got away from him.. so he told some works to grab some stuff to spray on the infestation.. only problem.. wrong product, no instructions to the workers, no safety gear and they were to harvest in three days..

One of the applicators died, right in the yard after coming back from doing the application (the used Phosdrin) .. the other to the hospital (were able to save him) and then the crop could not be harvested as it carried illegal pesticide residues.. Gallow couldn't lay it down for raisins, could go for juice and it certainly was not going for table grapes...

We (County Ag Commissioner office) filed with the DA in the County .. and it worked it's way thought the courts.. they guy did not get jail time .. which in my opinion was not right.. but, politics being what they are ... and Mr Gallow being who he was ... it was not a big surprise ... things like that happen.. just do..

The fashion designer and the daughter moved back to San Francisco and lived "happily ever after" I guess ... it was after all just one in many investigations

But, it was always interesting on that job... very interesting.. all the time.. we also worked with Air, Water, Highway Patrol, Fish and Game, OSHA and spent a lot of time with Fire folks and Highway Patrol... as they were the ones who would have to respond to fires and accidents .. that was before things had really gotten set up on Placards for storage and trasportation..

Think those poor guys down in Texas that walked up to put that fire out at a trailer, which just happened to have boxes of dynamite inside and were killed.. seems like 12 or 14 guys got killed.. that really put the pressure on to get things so one could ID them when approaching quickly ... just had to.. some of that stuff was and still is pretty damn bad.. off topic, but when I saw the responders on 9/11 I had great concern for their exposure ... again.. fire and emergency folks are trained to do one thing... go in.. and help.. very sad for them and there families... really sad.. another group that don't get enough pay for what they do.. yeah, I know the choose it... but, someone has too.. just that they do it.. and some do it for 30 years.. (and retire.. good for them, even if they drink a bit.. so what.. they deserve it... think I will have one for them this afternoon..)

Thanks for letting me share some of my old war stories.. it was a long time ago.. but still pretty fresh in the brain pan..

Good day to all.. and have a great weekend... but, keep thinking.. and stay alert, one can do both.. I've seen it.. I've done ... would like to do something right now.. but, can't.. that's just the way it is... they as good as it gets and it ain't bad..

Oh, the other thing.. from that job... man diid I get to know some of the best: coffee shops, restaurants, and some of the best bars in a lot of places ... woohoo

And Barry we were in the same area at the same time.. left the State in 1986, started in 1974 full time.. worked part time in the summers doning field work of exclusion and detection.. for a couple of years while in college..

[Edited on 7-23-2010 by wessongroup]

[Edited on 7-24-2010 by wessongroup]

BajaRae - 7-25-2010 at 04:59 AM

Might have missed it, didn't check all the links.
But the guys around here use WORM CASTINGS....to kill and controll the white fly.

monoloco - 7-25-2010 at 06:31 AM

I have had luck using a combination of Ivory liquid and sticky traps. I painted plastic disposable plates yellow and covered them with Tanglefoot to make the traps.

acadist - 7-25-2010 at 07:33 AM

Get those bugs to the Endenada Marijuana and poppy fields described in another thread....maybe that will get the cartels under control

DianaT - 7-25-2010 at 08:12 AM

Those are some really great photos of one very ugly infestation!

Wessongroup, sounds like you were working in the Imperial Valley about the time John was doing his Geography Master's Thesis on the Salton Sea area----one of the things he talks in the thesis is all of the empty nasty insecticide containers that the farmers around there used to just throw into those "pristine"rivers---the New and the Alamo. :biggrin:

Again, those are just really good photos-----now I hope the next ones will be of that beautiful flower with nice green leaves!

White fly control

bacquito - 7-25-2010 at 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by monoloco
I have had luck using a combination of Ivory liquid and sticky traps. I painted plastic disposable plates yellow and covered them with Tanglefoot to make the traps.

Yes, I have seen many growers using yellow tape around production agricultural fields to control white fly, I have also heard of using detergent but it is expensive and does not last long. That kind of treatment is best used in small areas-gardens.
There are some pesticides that work. I remember Admire (Bayer Ag.) being used but I believe it is tough on bees. Bee Colony Collapse that has been discussed widely is thought, in part, to be caused by pesticides.
We had a horrible problem years ago with White Fly (Bemisia) in Imperial County but to my knowledge it is under control.
One thing for certain the battle will contiue!!

wessongroup - 7-25-2010 at 09:18 AM

DianaT... a really funny one... was invited to a BBQ... Santa Maria style ... with tri-tip, fresh corn sweet corn (also BBQed) with super beans, rice and salad, home made tortilla's made on the spot ... and of course refreshments..

But, the funny thing.. the guys that were BBQing the meat were using old pesticide 55's which had been cut in have... the drums still had labels on them ... they had held Phosdrin...

Mentioned to the guys, maybe they should maybe not use them to cook food.. "hell we use the Phosdrin to start fires... the product had a xylene carrier.. xylene would keep from burning the "plant" while keeping the AI in suspension for application.. and would "burn off" quickly once applied.. and did work for a fire starter... I ate it... didn't die and I'm still alive.. so, guess they were maybe correct..... "hell, there ain't going to be anything to hurt you left".. not the kind of scientific studies I would like to bet the ranch on... but, with 40-50 folks and there kids eating too.. who am I to say "stop"..

Farmers in that period of time were just a real treat to try and get to recognize that many of their practices "using agricultural chemicals" where in fact not a really good idea...

Farmers are the salt of the earth.. but, can present some degree of problems in trying to get them to do things different.. and when your trying on THEIR property.. oh boy... all good people .... just really did not understand how something they had been doing for a long while and which had not killed them, could possibly, kill anyone... as it had not killed them.. and they had been working with the materials themselves ..... in some cases all their lives.. so to try and get them to see any reason to change was a very hard one...

And for a new young guy just out of college.. with ideas like "protect the environmental and public health" well we were a a long ways apart... except on things like food and booze... and being resonable in getting them to understand the need to change. as these folks did not, do not ... want to do something wrong.. they are and were good people.. working hard to produce food and fiber for all of us.. even all over the world..

As a lot of grain, was inspected and classified right there in "Imperial" by the State of California and the USDA for export to all over the world.. used to go by rail to San Diego.. until that little rain they had that washed out the rail going to SD.. my wife was down in El Centro when that storm came through.. there was three feet of water in down town El Centro.. plus those drums ... were floating all over, and the tons and tons of fertilizer on the ground and in bags on pallets were lost also.. it was a real mess... lucky she got a second floor room.. and kept her feet dry..

But, being open to their problems and working with them to insure to make sure they could continue to "grow" and still make a "buck" help a lot...

Totally enjoyed this work... the only thing I did not like.. working for the State of California and the Federal EPA.... the politics were just terrible.. as there was money involved... so Agency's were all trying to get in on the "regulation" of this area.. health and environment.. and then throw in Cesar Chavez and it was an interesting groups of people and issues one "bumped" into ...

And you are spot on with the "rivers" ..... it was a problem.. along with the "burying of drums" it was a registered way to dispose .. "bury" we all used to joke that the Alamo River was Mexico's thank for what "we" had done to them over the years on various issue.. is was even way back then.. a really bad situation, as even as bad as "our" growers and industry was... on the other side of the border ... it was at that time .. even worse...

Just recalled that most of the Phosdrin... put up for the western United States was "put up" right by the "track" in Calipatria .... at a facility of Shell's, before they bailed on BK, and sold all their facilities and liability to J. R. Simplot, PureGrow and Western Farm Service...

Would be interested in learning about what your husband found about the area.. it truly was and most likely still is.. a very interesting place.. with a very unique history.. going back many, many years.. and to have been part of the Gulf of California/Sea of Cortez is quite a thought...

Had family (mothers side) that tried to get into farming of Alfalfa in Brawley in the 1920, but lost the farm in the depression..

And I enjoy your pictures from that area... used to stop over by Bombay.. when heading down and jut pull off and turn the engine off .... just to hear "nothing"... really liked that ... have seen some of your shots where you do much the same ... down here in Baja.

[Edited on 7-25-2010 by wessongroup]

[Edited on 7-25-2010 by wessongroup]

Bob H - 7-25-2010 at 09:32 AM

White flies love my hybiscus also. They also enjoy attacking my Plumeria and Rose of Sharon leaves.

We still have some 'old stuff' left that wipes them out. My neighbor across the street has a whole row of hybiscus that was seriously infected with them last year. He purchased four bags of lady bugs and that took care of it. He blamed me for chasing my white flies over to his house!
:tumble:

Pesticide Containes

bacquito - 7-25-2010 at 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DianaT
Those are some really great photos of one very ugly infestation!

Wessongroup, sounds like you were working in the Imperial Valley about the time John was doing his Geography Master's Thesis on the Salton Sea area----one of the things he talks in the thesis is all of the empty nasty insecticide containers that the farmers around there used to just throw into those "pristine"rivers---the New and the Alamo. :biggrin:

I started to work for the Imperial County Agricultural Commissioner' Office in 1988 when Cal. EPA was being established. Authority for pesticide enfocement was transferred from Calif. Dept of Food and Agricultural to Cal. EPA. Since that time more strict enforcement of pesticide use has been in effect. Pesticide container disposal is one of the areas of concern. It is strictly regulated. Prior to my retirement I was involved in some investgations and enforcement action. Hopefully things have improved since the "good ole' days"

Again, those are just really good photos-----now I hope the next ones will be of that beautiful flower with nice green leaves!

Tok drum

bacquito - 7-25-2010 at 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by wessongroup
DianaT... a really funny one... was invited to a BBQ... Santa Maria style ... with tri-tip, fresh corn sweet corn (also BBQed) with super beans, rice and salad, home made tortilla's made on the spot ... and of course refreshments..

But, the funny thing.. the guys that were BBQing the meat were using old pesticide 55's which had been cut in have... the drums still had labels on them ... they had held Phosdrin...

[Edited on 7-25-2010 by wessongroup]

To this day in the Imperial County Garage on State street is an old herbacide Tok drum used for trash. Rohm and Haas discontinued the product back in the mid 70's due to toxicity concerns

wessongroup - 7-25-2010 at 10:51 AM

bacquito .... some things don't change :lol:

DianaT - 7-25-2010 at 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by wessongroup

........Farmers are the salt of the earth.. but, can present some degree of problems in trying to get them to do things different.. and when your trying on THEIR property.. oh boy... all good people .... just really did not understand how something they had been doing for a long while and which had not killed them, could possibly, kill anyone... as it had not killed them.. and they had been working with the materials themselves ..... in some cases all their lives.. so to try and get them to see any reason to change was a very hard one...
...

Would be interested in learning about what your husband found about the area.. it truly was and most likely still is.. a very interesting place.. with a very unique history.. going back many, many years.. and to have been part of the Gulf of California/Sea of Cortez is quite a thought...

We still have a copy of his Thesis book back in the states that we need to dig out. The IID also has a copy---a part of the deal for using their library.

Farmers---having lived in the Imperial Valley and the Central Valley, I would agree that farmers are the salt of the earth people, and often not quick to change. What we have seen cause problems for some is when their own kids go off to college, major in ag studies, and then come back and try to tell dad what all he is doing wrong. That can be fun. :yes:

I have not checked recently, but I wonder if the New River Committee in Calexico is still talking about covering the river like they did in Mexicali---out of sight, out of mind. :biggrin:

And I wonder if ladybugs can be bought down here---we have only seen a couple around and tried to talk them into staying. So far, lucky----no white flies, but we have seen those monsters in town!