BajaNomad - Baja Norte narco turf war situation- what next?

Baja Norte narco turf war situation- what next?

Woooosh - 7-25-2010 at 02:01 AM

Well, we know the local troublemakers and opportunists are out in force in the North border region of Baja. Lot's more burglaries, home invasions, store robberies, and crimes of opportunity lately because these c-ckroaches are too lazy to work but still need to support their families.

I'm more worried about this insecurity getting much worse very soon. This weeks Zeta reports the Sinaloa Cartel has heavily guarded poppy and marijuana fields in Ensenada. Marinate on that for a second. Fields of poppies for local opium production in Ensenada.

They also report an escalating Ensenada turf war between the Sinaloa (with amigo El Teo) and the Bertran Levy cartel.

Then 43 were arrested yesterday including a high level PGJE official for transmitting classified information to the CAF on the operations and arrests of their opponents. He was THE trusted TJ/USA drug liaison ( and was ironically arrested in San Diego when he showed up at Police HQ for a joint task force meeting yesterday). This guy had computer database access to the CHP, SD Police Department, SD County Sheriff's Department and the Los Angeles Police Department. He fed this info to the cartel.

So the top Mexican Justice PGJE/USA drug guy in Baja Norte was on the CAF payroll all this time? Wasn't the CAF supposed to have been fragmented, crippled and diminished after the older Arrelano brothers were arrested years ago? Guess not- they had the real power through pure intel and they acted on it.

So here in Baja Norte we now have the CAF, the Sinaloa cartel (and what's left of El Teo's group), and the Bertran Levy groups getting ready to do battle here to own our tourist-rich "TJ PLaza" smuggling corridor worth $Billions and $Billions a year. That's one more cartel in this new narco turf war than the last narco crime wave two years ago.

And now they are cultivating the Marijuana and Poppies in Ensenada (to be transformed into heroin at some point you would have to assume). Why be the middle man forever the Sinaloa cartel is saying. Hecho en Mexico! This cannot happen without corruption permeating all the top levels of every agency. It's huge huge money and too much temptation for them all (they'll find a number that works for you or threaten to kill your family)

Get this- The man arrested from the Tijuana Police Anti-kidnapping division was playing both sides. How much worse off were desperate families who trusted the gov't and reported kidnappings to this corrupt police division working with the cartels? How many TJ businessmen did they identify, set up and kidnap- forcing them to close shop and flee to Chula Vista for safety? How many jobs were lost and serious economic damage to the businesses of TJ and Rosarito by their own top level officials- all out of greed?

I'm going to have to marinate on this myself for a while. It's a lot to take in with far reaching implications into our lives here.

[Edited on 7-25-2010 by Woooosh]

JESSE - 7-25-2010 at 02:50 AM

Nothing new, Sinaloa has always been present in the region, most of the robberies and burglaries are due to the bad economy, the arrests of officials isn't new at all. After Teo's arrest, things are back to "normal" to a certain degree in the region. Regular murders but no decapitated bodies in mainstreet, wich terrorized the region. Rich Tijuana' people who fled to SD are investing again, that should be a very important meter for how things are in the area, those people know the in and outs of the problems in the area better than anybody else. If they are investing, they know something we don't.

DavidE - 7-25-2010 at 07:08 AM

I always keep in mind that we are a lot less likely to see Beltran Leyva involvement in local burglaries and more independents working because la julia doesn't want to stick its nose is too many issues these days. It's the lack of cops that is causing a lot of the problems --- "Oh excuse me sir, you are not under arrest; I thought you were an independent".

Bajajorge - 7-25-2010 at 07:31 AM

The Sinaloa bunch is quite previlent all over the place. They can also be seen around in parts of the US.

DENNIS - 7-25-2010 at 07:44 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Woooosh

I'm more worried about this insecurity getting much worse very soon. This weeks Zeta reports the Sinaloa Cartel has heavily guarded poppy and marijuana fields in Ensenada. Marinate on that for a second. Fields of poppies for local opium production in Ensenada.

Like Jesse said, it's nothing new although it's not in the tourism brochures, so who would know.
Over ten years ago, I had a buddy who lived in the city by a motel that catered to the locals and it was constantly booked solid with federal agents from DF. It was unusual to see on the streets in those days, but these guys were armed to the teeth and would spend their time fire-fighting with the growers in Valle De Trinidad. It was just one of those things that the public ignored.

In my opinion, the problem has been ignored so long that it has grown to unmanageable proportions. It's no longer feasible to try and control the supplier and it's clear that they are controlling us.
Now, all we have left is to control the consumer. Too many to incarcerate so we have to legalize the product. I had hoped it would never come to this, but there's no other way out of this mess.

This "war on drugs" in Mexico is so parallel to the take-over of South Viet Nam by the North that it's frightening

knuckles - 7-25-2010 at 07:06 PM

Dennis:

Thanks for your insight. It has been in the air that things are gearing up again. The small time stuff is just to tide everyone over until the cartels beef up their employment rolls again. I could never explain it myself, its just a feeling you get around town.

Appreciate your translation and opinion without the venom.

noproblemo2 - 7-25-2010 at 07:15 PM

It's all very alarming but do agree with Dennis it is time to legalize the stuff and start taxing it, might help pay off some soaring debts, cut down the prison populations and take a burden from the taxpayers from feeding and housing them..

What's the benefit of taxing and legalizing??

lookingandbuying - 7-25-2010 at 09:09 PM

I just don't see how taxing the stuff, or legalizing it, is really going to make any difference. The only difference I see would be a lot more zombie dope users that are a drag on the rest of the population. Even if you argue that by taxing it we could use the money to treat users I would think there would still be a black market as the bad dudes don't want to make the government a partner to share the profits with.

Once it is legalized and taxed these bad guys running the stuff will be on fortunes 500 richest people in the world list. But, they are bad guys and will continue to do what bad guys do.

So, I guess my question is: what is the benefit of either taxing or legalizing dope AND which stuff do we legalize and tax? All of it?? This is the mere decay of society and there must be a better answer.

BajaGringo - 7-25-2010 at 09:12 PM

Right.

Look at all those drunks that "suddenly" emerged after prohibition was repealed...

:rolleyes:

Weak

lookingandbuying - 7-25-2010 at 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BajaGringo
Right.

Look at all those drunks that "suddenly" emerged after prohibition was repealed...

:rolleyes:

Weak point.

Alcohol = Heroin??

Next... :bounce:

MsTerieus - 7-25-2010 at 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BajaGringo
Right.

Look at all those drunks that "suddenly" emerged after prohibition was repealed...

:rolleyes:

Alcohol is not nearly as addictive as heroin, crack, etc.

MsTerieus - 7-25-2010 at 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by lookingandbuying

Quote:

Originally posted by BajaGringo
Right.

Look at all those drunks that "suddenly" emerged after prohibition was repealed...

:rolleyes:

Weak point.

Alcohol = Heroin??

You owe me a coke, Looking. (As in "coca cola"). Great minds think alike. :lol:

wessongroup - 7-25-2010 at 09:27 PM

and not as much fun...

Join them?

lookingandbuying - 7-25-2010 at 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by wessongroup
and not as much fun...

I agree!! Wondering if I should join the meth heads along the corridor?? :lol:

DENNIS - 7-25-2010 at 09:47 PM

Why does there always have to be a government profit motive? The predominant motive now is to stop the insurgency in Mexico which is taking place today.

Do you folks up north have any idea what your life will be like if...no...when mafias control your southern neighbor and your population is infested with soldiers of their army?
Do you?
Think about it, you fools.
Wake up.

BajaGringo - 7-25-2010 at 09:50 PM

So cigarettes are highly addictive; many studies showing that it is easier to kick heroin than tobacco. So we should make those coffin sticks illegal too. I say we make anything that can hurt us illegal.

I vote we start with fast food and pizza...

Today

lookingandbuying - 7-25-2010 at 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS
Why does there always have to be a government profit motive? The predominant motive now is to stop the insurgency in Mexico which is taking place today.

Do you folks up north have any idea what your life will be like if...no...when mafias control your southern neighbor and your population is infested with soldiers of their army?
Do you?
Think about it, you fools.
Wake up.

Is this not what we have today, as a reality? :?:

Change

lookingandbuying - 7-25-2010 at 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BajaGringo
So cigarettes are highly addictive; many studies showing that it is easier to kick heroin than tobacco. So we should make those coffin sticks illegal too. I say we make anything that can hurt us illegal.

I vote we start with fast food and pizza...

For me, I personally don't care if people take acid with their coffee in the morning instead of milk. I just don't see how legalizing or taxing drugs is going to change the current situation. My point, if there is a tax why would the bad guys pay it? Especially if the tax is high. It would benefit them to operate in the black market, as they are now. :?:

And about the pizzas and fat people...they are NOW passing laws daily about this stuff...go figure?? :lol:

MsTerieus - 7-25-2010 at 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by lookingandbuying

Quote:

And about the pizzas and fat people...they are NOW passing laws daily about this stuff...go figure?? :lol:

Thoughts off the top of my head (i.e., I don't even know what side of the argument this will take me to):

* Hmmm: As for cigarettes -- I think the raising of prices (in addition to social pressure and advertising about health risks) has actually reduced ciggy consumption.

* The higher cigarette costs don't seem to have spurred a big black market.

* If people could get drugs legally, I think many would do so, rather than elect to get a discount by getting them illegally, and risking prosecution. Plus, I don't know how great a discount cartels could offer and still make good profits.

Strike Three!!!

lookingandbuying - 7-25-2010 at 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MsTerieus

* Hmmm: As for cigarettes -- I think the raising of prices (in addition to social pressure and advertising about health risks) has actually reduced ciggy consumption.

* The higher cigarette costs don't seem to have spurred a big black market.

* If people could get drugs legally, I think many would do so, rather than elect to get a discount by getting them illegally, and risking prosecution. Plus, I don't know how great a discount cartels could offer and still make good profits.

WRONG!!! On all three counts of "things off the top of your head". There is a HUGE black market in cigarettes! And, people don't really seem to be bothered by breaking the current laws in both buying and trafficing in drugs. Is this going to all of a sudden change?? :?:

DENNIS - 7-25-2010 at 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by lookingandbuying

Is this not what we have today, as a reality? :?:

Not quite yet. We're working on it though.

DENNIS - 7-25-2010 at 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MsTerieus
Plus, I don't know how great a discount cartels could offer and still make good profits.

I give up. You are one of the many here who are able to give yourself a colonoscopy without tools.

Nonsense

Dave - 7-25-2010 at 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS
Now, all we have left is to control the consumer. Too many to incarcerate so we have to legalize the product.

Make the penalties onerous enough and recreational drug use would virtually disappear.

DENNIS - 7-25-2010 at 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave

Make the penalties onerous enough and recreational drug use would virtually disappear.

Impossible. We can't afford to disipline the lawbreakers we have now.
How will you impose onerous penalties? Where will you put everybody? Where will they get money to pay their fines?
What will you do with a country full of citizens with police records who can't qualify for credit or anything else? Who wants to hire a felon?
How do you propose to enact your tough method?

Don't think so...

lookingandbuying - 7-25-2010 at 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS
Now, all we have left is to control the consumer. Too many to incarcerate so we have to legalize the product.

Make the penalties onerous enough and recreational drug use would virtually disappear.

The current infastructure of jails is insufficient to house the existing clients. They even have a brand spanking new jail in Los Angeles that they can not even open due to the lack of budget funds to hire staff!! Heard of "early" release?? What are we going to do give em all the death penalty for being drug users to mitigate the overpopulation issue?? :?:

BajaGringo - 7-25-2010 at 10:49 PM

I say we let Sheriff Joe Arpaio build a tent city the size of Rhode Island. With that we should be able to arrest and house all the pot smokers in LA county...

DENNIS - 7-25-2010 at 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by lookingandbuying
What are we going to do give em all the death penalty for being drug users to mitigate the overpopulation issue?? :?:

Well...there we have it. The constructive beauty of thinking outside of the box.
I like it. It brings to mind the news video of the Saigon police chief disposing of a piece of garbage with his pistol. Very effective.

Dave - 7-26-2010 at 12:56 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS
Impossible. We can't afford to disipline the lawbreakers we have now.

Stop arresting dealers. Free up the jail space for users.

If society were serious about it, recreational users would realize it wasn't worth the risk.

BajaGringo - 7-26-2010 at 06:40 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS
Impossible. We can't afford to disipline the lawbreakers we have now.

Stop arresting dealers. Free up the jail space for users.

If society were serious about it, recreational users would realize it wasn't worth the risk.

The country has tried its hand at jailing and fining pot smokers for a long time with very little if any success. So what are you proposing Dave? 25 years at hard labor for first timers? Public torturing and executions for repeat offenders?

Might work.

Personally I would like to see slow drivers in the left lane be flogged and lifetime loss of driving privileges if we are going to start re-examining penalties...

:lol:

fishabductor - 7-26-2010 at 07:15 AM

Is their a blackmarket these days for alcohol? Anyone know where I could score a 6 pack of beer?

The blackmarket for cigs is stolen cigs that can be sold for less.

A legimate drug company could probably undercut the dealers.

Bajajorge - 7-26-2010 at 08:30 AM

The government needs a new source of tax revenue as the tobacco taxes are bringing in less and less each year.

Recently I heard a news story about Gov Arnold announcing that Mamograms would no longer be paid for by the California Medicaid program due to hugh losses in the tobacco taxes collected.

:light:

So, if you've lost money in the stock market during this financial downturn, :no:

may I suggest that you reinvest in the new booming conterfeit medical Marijuana permission letter business.

Plenty of counterfeits!!

lookingandbuying - 7-26-2010 at 10:12 AM

" The blackmarket for cigs is stolen cigs that can be sold for less."

Actually, there is a HUGE black market in cigarettes. Some are stolen like you mention, but, a lot more are manufactured in places like China (go figure?) and the other part is mere smuggling from low tax States to high tax States.

http://www.slate.com/id/2221438/pagenum/all/

http://www.caltax.org/member/digest/june2001/jun01-08.htm

MsTerieus - 7-26-2010 at 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by MsTerieus
Plus, I don't know how great a discount cartels could offer and still make good profits.

I give up. ...

Good. Now maybe you will leave me alone.

BajaGringo - 7-26-2010 at 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by MsTerieus

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by MsTerieus
Plus, I don't know how great a discount cartels could offer and still make good profits.

I give up. ...

Good. Now maybe you will leave me alone.

Oh, go get a room you two...

:lol:

MsTerieus - 7-26-2010 at 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by fishabductor
A [legitimate] drug company could probably undercut the dealers.

Thank you, fish. That is what I was trying to say about cigs.

MsTerieus - 7-26-2010 at 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by lookingandbuying
" The blackmarket for cigs is stolen cigs that can be sold for less."

Actually, there is a HUGE black market in cigarettes. Some are stolen like you mention, but, a lot more are manufactured in places like China (go figure?) and the other part is mere smuggling from low tax States to high tax States.

http://www.slate.com/id/2221438/pagenum/all/

http://www.caltax.org/member/digest/june2001/jun01-08.htm

Hmmmm... Interesting, Looking....

MsTerieus - 7-26-2010 at 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by BajaGringo
Oh, go get a room you two...

:lol:

I don't know .... what does he LOOK like? :lol:

[Edited on 7-26-2010 by MsTerieus]

durrelllrobert - 7-26-2010 at 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

In my opinion, the problem has been ignored so long that it has grown to unmanageable proportions. It's no longer feasible to try and control the supplier and it's clear that they are controlling us.
Now, all we have left is to control the consumer. Too many to incarcerate so we have to legalize the product. I had hoped it would never come to this, but there's no other way out of this mess.

In simpiler times (prohibition) legalization/ taxation worked but today drug legalization/taxation would probably result in a higher product price and the consumers (at least some) would to resort to more robberies, etc to support the habit, or stick with the current illegal sources IMHO.

[Edited on 7-26-2010 by durrelllrobert]

durrelllrobert - 7-26-2010 at 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by lookingandbuying
.....and the other part is mere smuggling from low tax States to high tax States.

.... and then there is Duty Free where you can purchase 3 cartons of my brand (Sheriff) made in North Carolina @ 3 cartons for $22 = $0.73/ pack :?:

wessongroup - 7-26-2010 at 11:08 AM

Chinese smokes.. now that would really be adding in some REAL immediate health threat to smoking........ seems China's ... product quality control is not quite up to our standards... by a long shot... and years ago while a very young entrepreneur.. in the service ... used to sell American cigarettes and American booze to the German's and other GI's for a fair profit..

Went into partnership with a women (Rose) she was 47 and I was 17.. She had been through the whole thing.. Owned a bar and restaurant.. Her boy friend just happened to be a Captain in the German Police in Kaiserslauten.. and for some reason we hit it off..

Worked well for about a year.. then others "who were in compitition " with Rose ... raised enough noise that action had to be taken .. as we were killing them.. I could get 5 quarts of American whiskey for around 2 dollars a bottle for my class XI card and knew a bunch of guys.. that didn't drink .. in Germany at the time the exchange rate was 4.40 marks for one dollar.. and a shot of Johnny Walker went for around 4 marks or a dollar a shot in a bar with "girls" .. a bottle is 40 shots.. and one could get up to 8 marks for a pack of smokes, from Germans.. their smokes were Gwdawful.. .. we were paying .25 cents in the PX...

We got raided at a News Year eve party... Rose's boyfriend sent word of the raid.. we were running down the street with as much as we could carry... when they showed up ... that was the first time I had really been shot at... and learned the German Police acted a bit different that ours... we dropped it all and hit attention with arms raised ... one guy from Chicago called this one Police officer a N-zis and got hit right in the mouth with the butt end of a Luger.. knocked out his front teeth.. but it sure slowed the talking to them..

Ahhhhh youth.. there was good times and there were bad times.. but most have been good times..

And of course I'm off topic.. and would love to put up that picture of Dennis coming back from Sharkey's but have used it too many time. you know the one with him wearing his "Red Shoes"... :lol:

[Edited on 7-26-2010 by wessongroup]

toneart - 7-26-2010 at 12:00 PM

Some posters are taking two sides simultaneously. That is not necessarily a bad thing. It shows how complicated the subject is, and thereby, the conflicts within.

As I have stated many times before, you have to prioritize!

#1. Stop the violence!

It cannot be done as a military endeavor. The War on Drugs is as futile as the War in Afghanistan. You cannot beat the insurgents! Their firepower, their inroads to local population contacts and control, and their zealousness are impossible to beat. It is their turf!

In Mexico, the cartels are fighting each other, the police and the military over the turf. It is escalating, spreading geographically and the potential danger to all of us is increasing.

The United States is fighting with a bloated Military bureaucracy. It is way too expensive to sustain without bankrupting our country. Our troops are well trained but they still operate under the Rules of Engagement. The little guy or woman who is willing to strap a bomb on his back and blow him/herself up cannot be defeated.

It has to be done on the political level; inner and/or inter government. This is being considered now in Afghanistan and Pakistan.

The cartels are in control in Mexico! They hold most of the cards. There will be concessions made. The War Dogs will be called off in return for the violence to wind down. The government will choose favorites and help them (the most powerful) to eradicate the lessor ones. That should go pretty fast, but there will be violence while this is happening. The goal is to STOP the violence, eventually.

#2. Decriminalize the drugs. The difference between drugs; Marijuana vs Heroin or Meth, has to be constantly shown and taught to the ill informed and to the stubborn moralists. Remember, to be a moral reactionary against the concept of allowing drugs to be consumed, is not as important as stopping the violence!

When crimes are committed as a result of being on drugs or needing drugs, then prosecute. Empty the prisons of non violent, and/or criminal users. The advent of just using should not be a crime.

#3. Tax it. All levels of government can greatly benefit from the revenue. Our government is still in control. We can implement it and enforce it. In Mexico, it will have to be part of the negotiation between the government and the cartels. There will have to be something in it for the cartels; either in the form of kickbacks or political appointments, or both.

Sure, some will go underground but most will become mainstream and a good source of revenue.

There are no clean or ideal ways to end these wars. It will be messy with residual consequences. Just remember...prioritize according to the most important and acute of the crises and be ready to accept a new paradigm. :light:

DENNIS - 7-26-2010 at 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by toneart
The government will choose favorites

All due respect, Tony, but I think you have that backwards. It's the cartels who are choosing politicians.

toneart - 7-26-2010 at 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by toneart
The government will choose favorites

All due respect, Tony, but I think you have that backwards. It's the cartels who are choosing politicians.

Yup! I thought about that while I was writing. You are quite correct!

DanO - 7-26-2010 at 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BajaGringo

Personally I would like to see slow drivers in the left lane be flogged and lifetime loss of driving privileges if we are going to start re-examining penalties...

:lol:

I'll second that motion.