BajaNomad

HSBC Fideicomiso

Reeljob - 7-28-2010 at 07:18 AM

Just got this tidbit of info that may be of interest to some.

Notice:
A letter has been sent to foreigners who hold Fideicomisos
through HSBC. It is a notification not from the bank, but from a
sub-contractor of the bank, claiming the right to collect monies, including
Fiduciary fees owed to the bank, on behalf of the foreigner.
It names the holder of the Fideicomiso, his Trust Number and his address. It
asks, no demands by June 30, copies of his passport and a proof of address
in the form of a utility bill from his home outside Mexico.

The letter has been submitted this evidence of irregular and inappropriate behavior to
the Chamber of Commerce Banking Commission liaison for investigation.

We are currently surveying the banking laws for statutory permission for
banks or their contractors to engage in such invasive practice. The contract
with the bank for the Trust requires that the parties apprise each other of
changes of address, but there is no specific permission that would allow the
bank to give private personal information to third parties, nor to confer on
third parties any power to make such demands.

By supplying the requested information the unsuspecting owner could be
placing personal information into the hands of individuals he does not know.
This is the first step in permitting the theft of one's identity.

Conversations with the Fiduciary department at HSBC have been made, and it has been determined that this is very serious. Be on guard for letters and realize that the company contracted by HSBC is likely to solicit other business from you. HSBC seemed unconcerned about this third party contractor and you are not obligated to answer any questions or provide information to a third party..

HSBC inherited all the old trusts from the former Banco del Atlantico in the 1980's . There are many of these in the older neighborhoods. When the takeover occurred, all the records for Baja were held in Tijuana, and were sent in cardboard boxes to Mexico City
where they were subsequently lost for a period and discovered later to have
been ignored, and many of the beneficiaries had moved or not paid for some
time. The bank has a huge list of unpaid Fiduciary fees on it's books. This
seems to be yet another attempt by their inept Fiduciary department and
Board of Directors to bring order to a very poorly run department.

You have been appraised. If anyone has any questions or doubts, please call
your HSBC Fiduciary and get the message directly. I hope that you
will let them know in direct terms that this is an unacceptable way of
dealing with their problems, and that the service they may think they are
offering is a violation of privacy and good will.

For your information HSBC, is NOT a mexican owned bank.
This letter is applicable only in cases of fideicomisos held by HSBC.
For most of you, it does not apply. Double check your fideicomiso documents. But remember. regardless of the bank, you are only obligated to pay your yearly trust fees to the bank itself and notify the bank in case of a change in your status, home address or contact info. And you are only obligated to give this information to the bank directly, not any sub-contractor of the bank.

Riom - 7-28-2010 at 08:59 AM

What year was this message copied from?

Nezter have been contracted by HSBC to collect their fideicomiso payments for several years now. Since they have a website and English-speaking customer service, it's more convenient to use them than HSBC. HSBC pay Nezter a cut so there is no extra charge for the fideicomiso holder, and there is no obligation to use any other Nezter service.

I wasn't required to provide any extra identity information to them, but maybe that's because I had to provide it when I started the fideicomiso.

It's possible that extra id will be needed for older fideicomisos started before the latest "know your customer" rules (rules encouraged "to avoid money laundering" by a certain paranoid government to the north). Even for long-established accounts elsewhere there is often a rule to (re-)prove identity at times.

Reeljob - 7-28-2010 at 09:23 AM

July 2010

Riom - 7-28-2010 at 09:31 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Reeljob
July 2010


So the "by June 30th" is next year? Or, more likely, the place you copied it from (where is your source?) took a while to getting around to posting it.

Either way, it's nothing new. Nezter have been handling these payments for several years. Their service works fine (not perfect, but beats dealing with HSBC!).

For the identity requirements, complain to your government(s), not the financial organizations that are forced to enforce them.

I just sent a change-of-address for a bank account I've had (in another country) for more than 20 years - the bank can't accept that change without a utility bill from the new address. More "know your customer" rules they have to legally follow, however daft and however much it annoys existing customers. Likely to be the same for very old fideicomisos.

Rob

meme - 7-28-2010 at 01:38 PM

Thank You Rob!

HSBC should watch out for it's customers, not itself.

dooglaspi - 8-6-2010 at 10:57 AM

I'm the guy who wrote the initial post. I have been a real estate agent and broker in Cabo for 24 years.It is my friend who got the letter from HSBC. (ATTACHED)
I don't give a darn whether there are "Know your customer" laws to follow or internal bank requirements to send new copies of the old info (nothing has changed on the customer's part- same address, same passport).
My beef with HSBC is that they contracted a third party to solicit personal information from their customers without ever forewarning their customers. Why would anyone want to send their personal info or money to these people they had never heard of? And who knows what they will or could do with the info? How secure are their records? This was a BAD Business move.
Interestingly enough, the Bank moved from it's official address declared in the Fideicomiso without notifying any customer except after they had moved by a paper sign on the door of the building for a month or so. They now expect the customer to send his passport and personal address info and money to a third party that the bank has never acknowledged to the customer.
The other part of the NEZTER group is their apparent interest in getting into Property Management, Real estate sales and listing, etc. This is a conflict of interest that real estate companies cannot abide.

I called HSBC for comment. They admitted the contract agreement with Nezter, but said nobody had to use them. I called the director of CONDUSEF (the banking commission customer relations division). The director in La Paz told me that the legality of the action depended on the Fideicomiso contract- if it mentioned allowing third parties to collect money, etc etc then they could.... So, the Fideicomiso says that the relationship is direct- customer and bank, at their respective addresses as stated.

Bottom line: I have advised all Los Cabos AMPI brokers to cease using HSBC for Fideicomisos, and to suggest that they get all customers to consider changing banks if they are buying a property already in an HSBC trust. The local AMPI chapter has backed me on that position. Bad business decisions on HSBC's part are their problem, and until they decide to clean this up and start looking out foe their customers, we are professionals who have OUR customers to look after. HSBC puts them at risk, in my opinion.
It is fine with me if HSBC eases out of the Fideicomiso business in Los Cabos.

comitan - 8-6-2010 at 07:32 PM

If you are in Mexico Just take the last payment(acct, number) they will convert to pesos and you take it to the teller and make your payment, nothing to it.

bajajazz - 8-7-2010 at 10:45 AM

BaNorte charges much less for Fideicomisos than HSBC, and also offers them at a fixed rate. On a dinky property back in '87, my FC started out with Banca Serfin at $80 USD, was talen over by HSBC and raised to $400 USD and then again to $600 USD, which they claim is their "minimum." On another property worth five or six times more than the original purchase, BaNorte charges me a fixed $460. per year and issues receipts immediately, unlike my experience with HSBC. I have found the personnel at HSBC to be slow and snotty in their attitude toward their customers.

Riom - 8-7-2010 at 12:28 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by bajajazz
... was taken over by HSBC and raised to $400 USD and then again to $600 USD, which they claim is their "minimum." On another property worth five or six times more than the original purchase, BaNorte charges me a fixed $460. per year .


I pay US$ 350/yr +tax (so currently $388.50) for an HSBC fideicomiso, which I believe is fairly standard in the San Felipe area.