BajaNomad

raising kids in Baja

sharktooth - 7-30-2010 at 08:25 AM

Just curious if anyone knows any ex-pats who are raising young kids in Baja Sur (2-5 year old kids)?

We are slightly contemplating this scenario, but curious if there are other families doing this.

Also, if there are ex-pat schools anywhere in Baja Sur.

I will google this, but wanted to check you all out too.

thanks

BajaBlanca - 7-30-2010 at 08:27 AM

there is an american woman and her italian husband in bahia de los angeles, they home school their kids.

DENNIS - 7-30-2010 at 08:29 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by sharktooth

Also, if there are ex-pat schools anywhere in Baja Sur.




Why would you contemplate taking your kids down there and seperating them from the culture? If the situation was mine, I'd be looking for a high quality Mexican school of which there are some.

fishabductor - 7-30-2010 at 08:29 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by sharktooth
Just curious if anyone knows any ex-pats who are raising young kids in Baja Sur (2-5 year old kids)?

We are slightly contemplating this scenario, but curious if there are other families doing this.

Also, if there are ex-pat schools anywhere in Baja Sur.

I will google this, but wanted to check you all out too.

thanks


we have a 6 month old, that we'll be home schooling for the first several years as we live far from schools.

I know of a few people who have kids in the age range you specified.

There are a few good internationa; schools in Los cabos.

sharktooth - 7-30-2010 at 08:48 AM

Perhaps 'international school' is a better description... we're just curious, if and how other expats are raising kids in Baja Sur.

We're not locked into any particular type of school - just getting the conversation going and seeing if anyone else is doing this.

As this may not be a permanent move - we would like a school that could transition easily into US schools if we move back to the US.

This is still very hypothetical, just checking out possibilities - and seeing if anyone else has experience with this.

thanks

Transistions

MrBillM - 7-30-2010 at 09:00 AM

I once had neighbors in Baja (Pocho and Gringa) who had moved there with a pre-school child. At school-age, She was enrolled in a Mexican School and became more fluent in spoken and written Spanish than English. In fact, her reading and writing in English was sub-par.

Not a problem until her parents separated (eventually divorcing) and the custodial parent took her home to the U.S. where she struggled at Grade-Level.

I suppose it all worked out though, but I haven't seen them in years.

bajafam - 7-30-2010 at 09:10 AM

We are considering this also, but we will be schooling at a "virtual academy" through k12.com. This program allows us to travel, while still "keeping up with Joneses" as far as the kids (US) schooling goes. Once we have a more permenant Baja home, the kids will go to school with the other neighborhood kids, then do supplemental schooling at home through k12. I want them to have the best of both, and give them the added avantage of being immeresed in the Mexican culture and language.

BajaBlanca - 7-30-2010 at 09:10 AM

I went to a fantastic wonderful excellent international school in Rio de Janeiro and I cant say enough about how rich culturally it was for me to study with kids from all over the world AND the Portuguese helped me ace all my English SAT / college entrance exam tests due to the latin derivatives of the words. Of ocurse, we also had a language option, so I also learned French. This was the start of a love for languages that now includes English, Portuguese, French, Spanish, Russian, some Polish - Italian - Norwegian.

I am not sure if there is an equivalent International School in La Paz, for example, but there's a kernel of thought for opening one !

fishabductor - 7-30-2010 at 09:17 AM

Our plan is to homeschool for the first several years and then put the kids into a real school probably US, so they can be prepared and eligible for a university.


My parents were both superintendents of public schools in WA state. My mother currently still is as she went back to work after living in baja full time for 6-7 years.

I have have this talk with them several times about raising/schooling a child in baja and then transfering back to the states. They both feel that schooling here and then there would be no big deal, as well they think it would be beneficial in that our son will be bilingual as well as multi cultural. However, he'd probably be both anyhow as my wife is a Choyera and I a NWWA kid. I am about 50% fluent and my wife is 100% fluent in both english and spanish.

They are some great schools in Los Cabos, I believe there is a Montesori as well in san jose. Not sure where you are. If you are in this area, u2u me and I will dig up some info for you from some people who have kids currently in the schools.

fishabductor - 7-30-2010 at 09:26 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by BajaBlanca
I went to a fantastic wonderful excellent international school in Rio de Janeiro and I cant say enough about how rich culturally it was for me to study with kids from all over the world AND the Portuguese helped me ace all my English SAT / college entrance exam tests due to the latin derivatives of the words. Of ocurse, we also had a language option, so I also learned French. This was the start of a love for languages that now includes English, Portuguese, French, Spanish, Russian, some Polish - Italian - Norwegian.

I am not sure if there is an equivalent International School in La Paz, for example, but there's a kernel of thought for opening one !


My parents actually talked about opening a international private school on the eastcape. They have 50+ years in public schools in WA.

Our problem is we live an hour away from the schools. the local kids go to school on monday morning and return on friday night. We aren't about to do that. However, we have a few years to figure it out

Curt63 - 7-30-2010 at 09:43 AM

The homeschool options and online curriculums mentioned here will work great for a long time.

As children with strong academic potential get up to about 7th or 8th grade, many home schooling parents (depends mainly on your Math and Science background) begin to search for other resources/ options/ settings in order to meet the needs of a child that needs significant academic challenge.

Not every kid is University bound and getting in to top notch universities is getting very difficult.

I lived in Denmark for a year (and attended the local public school) when I was 14 and it was a fantastic experience.

My brother went to a prep high school in Salzburg, Austria with a bunch of wealthy spoiled expat brats and had a very mixed experience.

Good luck...its an adventure!

fishabductor - 7-30-2010 at 09:53 AM

As an engineer, I have the math and science background.

However, I don't want to play teacher for 12 years!!!!

bajafam - 7-30-2010 at 10:00 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by fishabductor
As an engineer, I have the math and science background.

However, I don't want to play teacher for 12 years!!!!


That's one thing that is really wonderful with the k12 system. You don't have to play teacher...all the work is done for you and delivered to you. As the kids enter into the 6th grade and beyond, the majority of the classwork is done online with a teacher, so your work as a parent really isn't anything more than what you would do as the parent of a child in a regular brick and mortar school.

[Edited on 7-30-2010 by bajafam]

shari - 7-30-2010 at 10:05 AM

I homeschooled sirenita....she was reading when she was 2 1/2 years old! but she WANTED to go to a normal school because all her friends did and she loved the cute uniforms. The public schools in baja sur are fantastic...excellent, loving, caring, dedicated teachers and strict behavioural rules...the kids love school here and we dont have the nasty issues like in the states with violence. It's common to see a teacher at recess with a kid holding each hand...they really love their students. Plus apart from the value of learning another language, they learn valuable social skills like respecting elders, authority, patience, sharing, cooperation and no whining!!! I am glad sirena was educated here.

Sirena also went to a private catholic school in guerrero negro which was also excellent. Because she read copious books in english, her wrinting skills are fine and she is not only bilingual but bicultural and holds her own with english educated kids.

It's up to the parents to see that a mexican educate child has a well rounded education in english too but I highly recommend studying in baja...the montessori program would be great I bet.

sharktooth - 7-30-2010 at 10:06 AM

my major concern is having kids isolated - I would prefer to have my kids playing with other kids their ages.

I think home school is great, but I think it is important to have the social exposure with kids as well. Don't their only friends to be mom and dad!

Eli - 7-30-2010 at 10:12 AM

My daughter went to middle school in Santiago and 1 yr. of high school in La Paz. than I sent her North so that she could finish high school in Oregon and possibly go on to college there. Which she didn't, she came straight home to Los Barriles and to work for me. She now runs the Company and I retired. Sweet deal for me. It always bugged Her that she didn't get a degree, so at present she is working on her degree in Architecture thru a state side college via the internet.

My daughter is raising both her kids in Los Barriles, and they go to the local schools. My grandson enters middle school next year and my granddaughter is still in Kinder. My grandchildren are both completely bilingual/ bi-cultural. My daughter and I always speak to them in English, (well almost always). Nightly they have been read their bedtime stories in English. My grandson is intellectual by nature, he would rather spend his recesses in the school library. For a couple of years in the afternoons He had an American tutor who teaches from her home in Los Barriles. He devours books in English, he just finished the Harry Potter Series.

There are several English speaking children in the Los Barriles school system. They all wind up being fully bi-lingual within the first year of attending.

My father started bringing me to Baja for the summers when I was 8 years old. Although my first language is English and I have never studied in Spanish, (except art), I sure am glad for getting the time I did as a kid in Mexico.

To know at a young age that there is more than just "your culture" opens a child's mind to the multiculturalism of this world we live in. I think a person will always be less judgmental for it.

[Edited on 8-1-2010 by Eli]

bajafam - 7-30-2010 at 10:19 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by sharktooth
my major concern is having kids isolated - I would prefer to have my kids playing with other kids their ages.

I think home school is great, but I think it is important to have the social exposure with kids as well. Don't their only friends to be mom and dad!


Interaction with other kids is achieved outside of school. My kids are too small for school as of yet, but they are highly social...just ask Shari! School should be just that ~ school. Socializing and friendships (with strong bonds) are made whether kids go to school or are homeschooled. School time should focus on the academics and after school is time to focus on playing.

shari - 7-30-2010 at 10:35 AM

dont worry...there is no being isolated in baja...no matter what language you speak, the kids want to play with you as they are very social and will teach your kids valuable social skills...the other mexican children used to ask me why I never spanked my daughter....they seemed to think I should have so she would behave better...funny!
but once your kids start making friends they will want to go to school so they fit in and are more like their amigos. I think you need to be mexican to go to public school but the private schools let other nationality kids in.

BajaGringo - 7-30-2010 at 10:43 AM

I attended school in a foreign country/culture when I was growing up and my kids did as well. I believe it made us all much richer for the experience.

Although I did get sent home from school the first day for fighting; but that is a story for another day...

Eli - 7-30-2010 at 10:47 AM

When I registered my daughter to go to public school in Santiago, I had a fight on my hands that took me all the way to Mexico City. Obviously I won, and am forever glad I did it.

The few U.S., (and this year one french born) kid's are all accepted and welcomed in the Los Barriles School system. I am sure each town has it own set of rules regarding this. In L.B. due to the years of influx of foreigners , the times have changed, thank god.

There are so many ways to go about educating your kids. All are valid, I expect.

Bajatripper - 7-31-2010 at 11:09 AM

As kids, my brother, sister, and I spent five years living in La Paz, attending public schools. All of us have gone on to lead productive lives as adults. Two of us have Masters from US universities.

I now live full time in La Paz and my daughter--who is now 13--attended a public elementary school here for five of six years. For the last three years, she has alternated yearly between living in Washington State and La Paz. She has done exceptionally well in school in both places and is, of course, bilingual. This coming year will be her last, for a while, in La Paz since I want her to be ready to attend a US university. My plan, with her approval, is for her to attend one year of high school here, just to keep her proficiency in Spanish.

During her first years in Mexico, I worked with her in English so she would be prepared. This is quite easy as there are numerous books on the market that offer the basic skills necessary to stay current in English (and any other subject, for that matter).

With that background, I can say unequivocally that you should bring your kids down. And I wouldn't worry too much about finding the "exceptional school" in which to enroll them. Just make sure to stay on top of their education and things will work out fine. The transcultural experience will make them better human beings.

I wouldn't worry at all about your kids' ability to adapt; kids are like putty, very maleable. Your kids will take their cues from you, the parents. Give them positive reenforcement, and they will respond accordingly; but the inverse is also true.

If you have any questions for one who has "lived it" for two generations, please don't hesitate to U2U me.

[Edited on 7-31-2010 by Bajatripper]

monoloco - 7-31-2010 at 11:27 AM

Our daughter attended several years of public school in Todos Santos/ Pescadero then finished high school in the states. She went on to graduate from college and is fully fluent in Spanish.

Cypress - 7-31-2010 at 12:34 PM

Given the state of education in the US, all things considered, going to school in Baja would be a plus.:yes:

Bajatripper - 7-31-2010 at 12:37 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by soulpatch
but with my vocational training I have done OK......seems like you need to pick your skill.
My USD, Oxford and Universidad de Salamanca highly educated wife's pay scale never equaled mine,


Aahhh, the power of a strong union!

Bajatripper - 7-31-2010 at 01:06 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by shari
I think you need to be mexican to go to public school but the private schools let other nationality kids in.


By no means. All you need is the usual: birth certificate (they usually want them translated into Spanish if it isn't already), school records from the previous year and a CURB. A valid immigration document (FM-2/FM-3) will suffice if they don't have the CURB.

At least, that has been my experience with my daughter in La Paz. But, this being Mexico, who knows what the next person's experience in the same situation will be?

805gregg - 7-31-2010 at 05:26 PM

The Mexicans can't wait to get their kids into USA for a better education, doesn't that tell you something. Maybe wait till they go to college, then move.

Eli - 7-31-2010 at 07:28 PM

I am sure it is different for everyone, and I can only speak from personal experience.

When my daughter went to school in Santiago and La Paz, she worked so hard, it was such a challenge.

When she went back to school in N/E Oregon, she felt like she was being babysat, the math and calculus were way behind what she had already learned at a lower grade level in Mexico.

This could have been just the schools that she attended. It's all subject to personal experience I expect.

mtgoat666 - 7-31-2010 at 07:40 PM

ya know, all schools are different, and you can't compare schools based on country.
the few on here that trash talk all schools in favor home schooling are just quirky extremists.

i think home schooling is OK if you live in the bush, but if you live in the city it is just weird.
i know about 15 people in my age bracket (40s) that were home schooled in the bush, and they all turned out fine, but they ALL also went wild upon landing in the big city,...

Skipjack Joe - 7-31-2010 at 09:23 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by fishabductor
As an engineer, I have the math and science background.

However, I don't want to play teacher for 12 years!!!!


It's not so bad. ;D;D

Bajatripper - 8-1-2010 at 05:13 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by 805gregg
The Mexicans can't wait to get their kids into USA for a better education, doesn't that tell you something. Maybe wait till they go to college, then move.


It tells me that they probably want their kids to be bilingual, as many of us on here do, too.

sharktooth - 8-1-2010 at 05:31 PM

Interesting discussion everyone!

Hey Monoloco - we may end up in Todos Santos. Are you still there, and do you see many expat families with kids 2-5 years old?

I am fine with taking the plunge, but my wife is not too enthusiastic about this idea right now. It would help her if she knew any families in our same situation - this would ease the transition for her.

Please - refrain from preachy remarks about multiculturalism...I am on the same page with most of you - if we are considering this move, we obviously have open minds. It would just make life easier in the beginning if we could link up with other families in our same situation.

thanks

BajaOnion - 8-1-2010 at 06:09 PM

There is a new school in Todos Santos:

www.escuelapacifica.org,

monoloco - 8-1-2010 at 06:17 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by sharktooth
Interesting discussion everyone!

Hey Monoloco - we may end up in Todos Santos. Are you still there, and do you see many expat families with kids 2-5 years old?

I am fine with taking the plunge, but my wife is not too enthusiastic about this idea right now. It would help her if she knew any families in our same situation - this would ease the transition for her.

Please - refrain from preachy remarks about multiculturalism...I am on the same page with most of you - if we are considering this move, we obviously have open minds. It would just make life easier in the beginning if we could link up with other families in our same situation.

thanks
You will find many english speaking families with kids here. I have known numerous families who's children were schooled in the public system, that have gone on to be very successful I have heard nothing but good things about Escuela Pacifico, I know that most of the parents with kids there are very involved in the school.

sharktooth - 8-1-2010 at 07:48 PM

Escuela Pacifica looks like the type of school we are considering... only it starts at grade 1 - so going to research some more for kindergarten programs in the same vein - sent them an email too.

Thanks - this is very helpful info.

I have really enjoyed my times in Todos - good surf, great town, access to local organic produce, and some of the best fish tacos in Baja.

a lot more attractive than most US cities we've been visiting!

Skipjack Joe - 8-1-2010 at 11:50 PM

The decision of whether baja schools are good enough for your children depends on your dreams and expectations for your children. The greater the dreams the less likely you will fulfill them away from our school system.

BajaBlanca - 8-2-2010 at 08:00 AM

very interesting discussions and i was amazed to hear that one child found the U.S. system to be more like a babysitter than educator. maybe that particular class was acting up a lot rather than concentrating.

i had no idea that so many put their kids in the school system here in Mexico with such success - Sirenita is surely a great example, that kid is smart, she can whip into fluent Spanish or English at the drop of a hat.

we should ask more of the kids who actually went thru both systems to check in here and give us the real scoop. For me, the school in Rio had extremely well off kids who were kind and generous and ohhhh soooo intelligent. I consider myself lucky to have been given the chance to interact and learn from them. Most had lived in more countires than I even knew the names of at the time hahahaha

Skipjack Joe - 8-2-2010 at 08:43 AM

Well, let me then write as someone who enjoyed the benefits of a multicultural environment. I spoke 5 languages by the age 6 (Russian, Serbian, Italian, German), I guess it was 4. English came at 7. And didn't enter the US educational system until 11.

As a result my verbal SAT and GRE scores were consistently low. It affected the schools I got into. It affected my choice in career: Humanities was out - Computer and Engineering was in. It affected how fast I progressed through higher education.

For example: my son speaks better english at 14 than I do at 63. I'm not saying he's got a better vocabulary. I'm saying that words come quickly and readily to him as needed. There is no thinking involved. All of that comes about from speaking a language at birth and getting a US education. There is no substitute for that.

A decision to have your child educated abroad will affect his future. As a parent you need to decide whether that's acceptable to you. Everyone decides based upon their own values. You may not care if your child becomes a US senator. You may not care if your child becomes a CEO of a large company. You may not care if your child discovers a strand of DNA that saves lives. Chances are that none of those things will happen anyway.

sharktooth - 8-2-2010 at 10:02 AM

just found out there is a Montessori school in Todos Santos - Escuela Pacifica directed me to their contact info - supposedly, they do kindergarten level programs!

Waiting to hear back from them now.

Skipjack Joe - 8-2-2010 at 10:34 AM

Soulpatch,

Most expats think the way you do. Once in baja the general thought is that those up north are into a material and hurried way of life that goes against your new values. And once you change those values then your child's success north of the border may not seem like success. After all your happiness didn't come about until you left our definition of success (3 bdr house, 6 figure salary, etc). So now you start to judge your child's future by your new values. Is that good or bad? I don't know but you're no longer the only one affected by your choice.

Skipjack Joe - 8-2-2010 at 12:36 PM

My apologies. I didn't mean it personally. Perhaps I should have used one's values instead of your values.

My point simply is that every child is like opening a new box. They may grow up with a different set of values than their parents. So giving them an education based upon the parent's set of values may be unfair to the child.

But I think you make a good point in that you can only raise the child in what you believe in. Otherwise the falseness is apparent. A very good point.

I have to make a comment however about these kind of posts that have been made in the past. And these do not apply to you soulpatch. The feeling I get
when I read them is that they seem to be made by people who want to live in baja but feel uncomfortable about sacrificing their kids future in the process. So there is a search to see just how much they will be sacrificing. Perhaps the grade school years and middle school can be compromised but not the high school years in my opinion. If you think about the resources available at a public high school (from chemistry labs to theater) it stands to reason that schools in baja just can't match them.

sharktooth - 8-2-2010 at 01:41 PM

Soulpatch and Skipjack - you guys are great.

These are the same issues my wife and I are dealing with in regards to our 2 year old.

At first it sounds crazy bringing our 2 year old to Baja (to most people here in the US)...but the more we meditate on it, the better it sounds.

opciones

BFS - 8-2-2010 at 01:58 PM

There are two schools in Todos Santos that you might consider contacting.
Escuela del Pacifico and the Montessori.
Both are excellent and its hard to beat their learning environments for young children. Beautiful desert countryside with palm trees and flowers all around and birds flying around the schoolyards. The teachers (Mexican and expats of various nationalities) are excellent and the kids are incredibly well adapted. I see kids of all nationalities having a blast together around town, the beach and at festivals throughout the year.

If you need contact info let me know and I will forward that.
Suerte!

bfs

Le Lycée Francais

Gypsy Jan - 8-2-2010 at 03:46 PM

Hi Sharktooth,

Check out Le Lycée Francais. They have been in the business of educating the children of the upper classes for a very long time (for example, Maddox Jolie-Pitt is a student).

They have a school in Tijuana (the location is not identified for obvious reasons) and I am guessing that they have location(s) in Baja Sur.

Here is link to the website for the Los Angeles school so you can get a sense of how they operate and their approach to learning.

If your children are enrolled, they can attend classes at any of the many locations around the world.

http://www.lyceela.org/le_lycee/index.aspx

[Edited on 8-2-2010 by Gypsy Jan]

irenemm - 8-2-2010 at 05:57 PM

I moved to Vicente Guerrero, Baja when our children were just 3, 5, and 7. They did not speak Spanish nor did I. I enrolled them in a Catholic school here and have never looked back. My children are fluent in Spanish and English.
My granddaughter just left to the States to finish here Senior year of High school. All she needs is US Government and 3 elective classes. as most of what she has done so far in High school is at the level of junior college.
I am glad we raised our kids here in the Schools we used.
This was a very small town when we came here so only 2 schools and no high school then. Now 4 high schools in the valley and a University too.
Got for it. You can always go back it is easy but harder when they are older to come here and learn the language. My rule was English only in the house because they would get Spanish at school.
Good Luck

Skipjack Joe - 8-2-2010 at 10:26 PM

Sharktooth,

I wouldn't go for it until I had the following stats from any school you are consdering.

1. Their scores of the California STAR tests given every year. http://star.cde.ca.gov/ How does it measure up to the stateside schools?

2. A list of the Advanced Placement classes that are being offered in high school and accepted by all accredited US universities.

3. Stats of graduating students who go on to major american universities (e.g. UC system, UofOregon, etc.).

4. Stats (if available) of how many proceded to graduate school.

5. Stats (if available) of the breakdown of professions past students later acquired.

This will do for starters.

You want cold facts about education. Not promises of caring, loving teachers; healthy school environment; friendly classmates; or your son's ability to speak Spanish fluently.

mtgoat666 - 8-3-2010 at 10:17 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by soulpatch
predicated on the assumption that those of us that wish to raise our children in Mexico have the desire for them to continue with higher education in the US.
For us that isn't a concern. Personally I would rather my kids go to an art institute of be musicians or anything creative or the Marine Institute in La Paz or have my landlord take them under his wing and get them involved with oceanography in Mexico.
Plenty of people from many different cultures are very successful without taking that path. It is a big frickin' world out there with so many rewarding life journeys and so many paths to success outside the parameters of the accepted paradigm.....if they choose, at some point, to take a traditional path that will be their prerogative and I will support them in any way I can.
I guess how you define success is really the driver in this.
Says the sleep deprived, vocational minded one.....again.
:coolup:


well, sounds like you got the path planned for your little tots. What if they want to be scientists or engineers? They may be better off going to good university in US.
If they are US citizens and plan to someday work in US, then they need degree from acredited US college...

soulpatch, you probably got benefits from going to US university, so don't be hasty to handicap your kids from doing same.

gnukid - 8-3-2010 at 12:22 PM

A combination of homeschool, outreach, and focused classes in areas of interest seem to produce the best results. Though you must be willing to buy or borrow the books, assign them and review together I gather--public/private schools can't compete with focused homeschool education-bit time must be made for socializing and being a kid too. Seems like cutting out video games and bad tv helps exponentially. OF course if it goes well, you will be paying for science projects and patent applications early on-probably a custom race car and a home built space ship too!

Eli - 8-3-2010 at 12:37 PM

Really, really everybody's version of reality expounded in this discussion is o.k. by me, just reflects personal experiences which is unique to each of us as are each of the stars in the universe.

Still, I just keep thinking about all the Professional People I know here in Mexico who were educated here and how they would feel about the points of view expressed concerning the quality of their education. I think maybe they would be a little offended.