BajaNomad

Tin Boat

acadist - 7-31-2010 at 06:42 AM

What do you guys think about this one?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/14-Aluminum-Boat-/12060237096...

Russ - 7-31-2010 at 06:46 AM

Get it!

rocmoc - 7-31-2010 at 06:52 AM

With a 25hp it will move along really well!

rocmoc n AZ/Baja

Russ - 7-31-2010 at 06:53 AM

If you're going to pull it down here on dirt roads you'll probably would want to beef up the tires, axle & springs. If it's still available at that price snag it you can't loose money on that deal and even with a small leak it'll get you on the water! That's a lot of motor for a boat that size & I love those older quirky Evenrudes.

Bob and Susan - 7-31-2010 at 07:22 AM

min bid is $800
there may be a reserve price

remember the 2 stroke engine is
banned on many lakes in the usa

other wise a great deal

bring it here tp weld the leak
i welded mine up for $50 usa
i reccommend to fix the leak ASAP

25hp = lots of power
this 25hp can pull susan skiing:light:

ski.jpg - 24kB

Skipjack Joe - 7-31-2010 at 07:26 AM

The bow isn't as flared as I like it. I'm not sure how it would handle in rough water. The modern aluminum boat are designed to push the water to the side and away, making them safer than that rounded design.

But the price is right ;D

ab15.jpg - 45kB

baitcast - 7-31-2010 at 08:09 AM

Looks good to me,ran a rig like that for years down there with half the hp,can,t beat the price.
Rob

Barry A. - 7-31-2010 at 08:37 AM

My experience tells me that the package quoted there would normally run from $1500 to $2000 +

Great deal.

Barry

Pescador - 7-31-2010 at 08:37 AM

That is not the boat you want for salt water use. It is built with rivets and would not make it through one season without developing lot of leaks. The owner already talks about the fact that it is leaking a little bit. They built these boats (which are fine for fresh water) with a rubber seam and where the two seams come together they are rivited. Salt water has a way of beating these rivets and they start to leak very quickly. There are very few fixes to stop the leaking and I have seen a good number of supposed fixes that at best are only temporary. What you need for an aluminum cartopper type boat is something that was welded and made by either Gregor, Klamath, Valco, or a new Duroboat like Russ has.
If you think that you can not live without the boat then the best thing to do is to get a seam sealer from Cabela's and plan on doing all the seams, inside and outside, and then get a year or two out of it. Or you can look at sites like Boattraderonline and put in Gregor, Klamath, or Valco and find some pretty good used boats for not much more money.

Barry A. - 7-31-2010 at 08:39 AM

Pesky----------aren't VALCO's riveted, and not welded?

Barry

rts551 - 7-31-2010 at 08:44 AM

http://tucson.craigslist.org/boa/1871546008.html

boe4fun - 7-31-2010 at 10:06 AM

The hull looks like an old Sears model I used to have. OK for freshwater or on the ocean with minimum swells/wave chop.

b1 - 7-31-2010 at 10:17 AM

My 13' Valco is riveted. It does leak some at the seams. To combat this, I installed a removeable bilg pump which operates on a float. It removes the seeping water quite well; an inexpensive and suitable fix for me. b1

BajaBruno - 7-31-2010 at 11:28 AM

I'd have to weigh in on the side of Skipjack Igor and Pescador. Rivets are a problem, except on fairly new boats or when you don't care about leaks. That boat has a very flat bottom that will pound badly in the chop, and little freeboard for the weight of all that stuff (wood floor and pedestal seats) in it. Those low freeboard boats need to have as little weight in them as possible to maintain buoyancy, particularly when running with the waves and with a couple normal sized men onboard.
My old 13' Gregor was welded.
My current 20' Valco is welded.
However, it looks like a fine boat for a flat lake.

bajabass - 7-31-2010 at 12:00 PM

If you are willing to shoot the inside with a gray Line-X or Rhino truck bed coating, and shoot the outside with a flex agent added to the paint, a riveted boat will last. For either side of Baja, a V bow and welded is far better. A small leak can get bad after a good pounding.:O

Cypress - 7-31-2010 at 12:29 PM

When Pescador speaks, listen and take notes. ;)

acadist - 7-31-2010 at 12:38 PM

Thanks for the input everyone! I am not looking to get a boat right now but if the right one pops up...... I would be looking to get something to use in Baja and in the lakes up here. Eventually want to get a smaller cuddy cabin so my kids have a place out of the sun but saw this one and thought it may be something to hold me over untill I save for what I want.

Barry A. - 7-31-2010 at 02:23 PM

You can buy a 'bimini' for a small alum. boat, providing good shade and they work great, and do not cost too much, and you can leave them up while you steam along, even at high speed..

Mine on my whaler works great, and I leave it up all the time except when trailering it.

I have never seen a 12' or 14' VALCO that was welded------all riveted. Perhaps new ones are welded????

Barry

baitcast - 7-31-2010 at 03:34 PM

My old 14' Chrysler,ya that was a tin boat,bought it in the late 60,s sold in 81 and never leaked a drop,rivets and all,never was in fresh water.




[Edited on 7-31-2010 by baitcast]

Barry A. - 7-31-2010 at 03:50 PM

I had a 12' FURY alum. (made in GA) with super high freeboard and a turned up prow, but with rivets (loose rivets)-----used it in Baja for 15 years and it got pounded several times in big waves, and I actually caved in the bottom once on a big swell when I was going too fast, and had to beach it and jump up and down in it on the beach to force the bottom back out, then I wedged drift wood under the thwarts and the bottom to hold the bottom in place-----and went steaming on. It leaked like screen-door, but with an automatic bildge pump working on demand I never had any problems with it. If the bildge pump quit, I had a hand pump in reserve, but never had to use it.

Those were the pre-Gregor days (for me), but sure were exciting. A Johnson 10 horse really pushed that boat along with only me in it. I often went down to Animas from BOLA, and 30 miles or so north of BOLA and around all the islands except La Guarda-------what a great boat.

Barry

baitcast - 7-31-2010 at 04:39 PM

Fury Chysler not what you would call top name brands:lol: honest about about no leaks,only weighed 118# I could handle it myself just throw it up on the shell and away we went.

In BOLA and Gonzaga I didn,t have to steer it sucker knew its way around on its own.

As I got older weight became an issure than came two 12',s but never missed a beat:lol:
Rob

woody with a view - 7-31-2010 at 05:37 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Barry A.
Those were the pre-Gregor days (for me), but sure were exciting. A Johnson 10 horse really pushed that boat along with only me in it. I often went down to Animas from BOLA, and 30 miles or so north of BOLA and around all the islands except La Guarda-------what a great boat.

Barry


with a 10?

new respect........:o

Barry A. - 7-31-2010 at 05:50 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by woody with a view
Quote:
Originally posted by Barry A.
Those were the pre-Gregor days (for me), but sure were exciting. A Johnson 10 horse really pushed that boat along with only me in it. I often went down to Animas from BOLA, and 30 miles or so north of BOLA and around all the islands except La Guarda-------what a great boat.

Barry


with a 10?

new respect........:o


At the risk of your diminished respect, I always had a buddy along in his Avon inflatable with a 40 horse Mercury--------we always travelled tandom. I like adventure, but I am not nuts. (or at least I wasn't then). There was an occasional problem, tho-----when the wind came up and caught us far from homecamp, I had to really fly in order to not be swamped by the waves-----the Avon, on the other hand had to slow down in order for it not to flip over backwards when running against the wind--------we often got separated by miles, but always managed to get together eventually before getting back to camp. :lol:

Barry

Pompano - 7-31-2010 at 07:21 PM

I like this thread about boats..one of my favorites things in life..being 'out there somewhere' in a boat.

But Boy-o-boy! Advising anybody on types of boat hulls is like giving advice on brunettes v.s. blondes...or sex v.s. pizza.....or pintos or yellowtail....it's all good! Just do it!

I 'll give you my experience. No recommendations. You make up your own mind when you're ready to buy something.

I'm sitting here in the RV in Seattle having a little vino and have nothing better to do..so..here's my tales about tin boats:

I've owned a few aluminun boats...both riveted and welded. I built my first duck boat out of 2 metal car hoods welded together...my first welds. Age 12. It floated, but was about as seaworthy as a brick. Drove my Dad nuts.

Riveted - LUND ALUMINUM 16FT

Lunds are the boat of choice for almost all Far North fly-in fishing lodges. They are delivered by float plane. The boat is tied to the undercarraige of the plane..and then dropped onto the water close to the lodge from the air. Now THAT'S a true test of a well-built aliminum boat! The method of delivery is always an attention getter if clients are around the lodge.



I bought this aluminum boat NEW in 1964 for $265. Wow..how times have changed, eh?












I put a new 1964 Johnson 20hp tiller on the transom and used the heck outta both of them for many years.. and who knows how many hundreds/thousands of hours. I've fished a lot all my life, commercial and sport..and still do. I would guess about 7000 hours on the boat and 2500 hrs on that 20hp.


I left it unchanged as an open tiller boat for about 9 years. Used it all over Far North Canada bush country and hundreds of lakes, rivers, and sloughs (duck hunting the sloughs). Over the years, I bounced that Lund thousands of miles over the worst possible trails and logging trails. That boat went from Alaska to Baja Sur and everywhere in between. I went thru rougher water on Lake Winnepeg, MB and Reindeer Lake, SK than any waves I've seen in 38 years on the mostly calm Sea of Cortez. We're talking monster storms on these northern lakes..waves to 20 feet are common..in short sets...will kill you quick if you take your eyes off the next one coming at you. Throttle up..throttle down..until you get to safety. One of the biggest waves ever reported on Lake Superior was a rogue 40-footer than sunk the Edmund Fitzgerald.


( I sold the 20hp and bought a new 60 hp Johnson tiller for the Lund around 1973 for one of my trips to Baja.)

Decided to change from a tiller to a steering wheel (big mistake) and installed a center steering console on the open Lund. Then added carpeted hatches and 3 bass chairs on pedestals that I bought in Shreveport, LA. after seeing my first bass boat on Toledo Bend, LA.

Now I had a genuine bass boat, by golly. Electric troller on the bow..Wow, I'm in high cotton now.

Lund 16ft riveted aluminum open fisherman.











In Baja I used that old Lund 16 riveted for about 10 more myears. Up and down the entire peninsula..over every rough trail there was..and yes, the rivets would leak from time to time. I repaired them..an easy fix. Trailering is the bane of riveted boats. Rough roads took thier toll on that boat, but it fished and fished.
y
Once the rivets got so loose, that I took the Lund to the Lund factory at New York Mills, MN to get the bottom re-done by the pros. The engineers put my customized 16ft open boat (that now resembled a bass boat from Louisiana) in thier test tank. One engineer said, "What have you done to one of our boats? Doesn't look too seaworthy." I said, "Well, I just got done with 6 months worth of sea fishing offshore Baja, Mexico. It handled it well enough for me." They repaired my Lund..and the next year came out with thier 'Pike Fisherman' model..a dead ringer for my custom job. :rolleyes:

Who knows..maybe it was an original idea of thiers..but I kinda doubt it!

I finally sold it one rummy night around a campfire to one of my Coyote Bay neighbors..for $1300. That was in 1979. I had paid $265 originally for the boat..and $500 for the Johnson 50hp. Not a bad deal for either of us. My neighbor used the boat for many years thereafter. Still called it Happy Hooker.

Anyhoooo....Would I get another flat-bottomed, riveted Lund 16ft and roller trailer for the SOC? NOT ON YOUR LIFE.

My butt still hurts from all those years of crashing thru waves from Coyote Bay to Tortuga and San Marcos. 100 mile-round trips damn near every day! But I loved it at the time..and so did my labrador.

No siree..not even the welded Alumnacraft 19 I had for about 4 years. It's fiberglass for me from here on out for the Cortez.

But, for a cartopper boat, any good aluminum boat will work for me, too.

As for what YOU should buy. My lips are sealed...except for another glass of this fine Red Truck vino.

Tight Lines!

Barry A. - 7-31-2010 at 08:43 PM

Outstanding story and pics, Pompano--------------your a man after my own heart!!!! and have totally outdone me in your adventures.

Viva Baja!!!! Viva boats!!! :spingrin:

Barry

Skipjack Joe - 7-31-2010 at 09:11 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by baitcast
Fury Chysler not what you would call top name brands:lol: honest about about no leaks,only weighed 118# I could handle it myself just throw it up on the shell and away we went.
Rob


Weight is a big consideration for us as well, Rob. The good thing has been that as the kids get older they can help with the lifting. The next boat will weigh 210lbs.

acadist - 7-31-2010 at 09:40 PM

So I am getting the general idea, but what about another question......what about trihulls in the SOC? I know that you want that deep v in rough water, but is the SOC generally smooth enough? I always liked the look of the bigger Lund bass boats too but trihulls can be picked up pretty cheap.

BajaBruno - 7-31-2010 at 09:56 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by fishabductor
I agree with pescador.
I have a 15'6" westcoaster bayrunner..and I love it.


If I didn't make that clear, I generally defer to Pescador as well. He and Bill Erhardt have done more fishing in Baja than a lot of guides.

As for your Westcoaster Bayrunner, I recently saw an 18 foot version on sale on Bloodydecks for $1,500. Kind of neglected, but a solid boat; so, deals are out there if you are looking in the right place.

Bob and Susan - 8-1-2010 at 05:16 AM

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/14-Aluminum-Boat-/12060237096...

the original auction item ended
no bids at $800

Pescador - 8-1-2010 at 07:39 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Barry A.
Pesky----------aren't VALCO's riveted, and not welded?

Barry


No, I have had a Valco that was a welded boat with a pretty sharp V. They also made riveted boats. Valco originally made the Bayrunner, I believe

[Edited on 8-1-2010 by Pescador]

Pompano - 8-1-2010 at 07:55 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by acadist
So I am getting the general idea, but what about another question......what about trihulls in the SOC? I know that you want that deep v in rough water, but is the SOC generally smooth enough? I always liked the look of the bigger Lund bass boats too but trihulls can be picked up pretty cheap.


In 1980 I brought a new 19ft. Silverline tri-hull to Coyote and used it there for 2 years. An inboard-outboard, it had a 350 short block Chev engine. Designed as a bass boat with pedestal chairs fore and aft and a side console.

It was terrific on flat water...did 52mph on a good day. Was not too great cutting through the waves, but then I never went out much when it was too rough.

I never let it sit at anchor for too many days, and would wash thoroughly in fresh water after most days out at sea.

dtutko1 - 8-1-2010 at 07:56 AM

Remember there is no coast guard in Baja. do your homework on the best ocean going boat and motor you can afford. pompano, pescador, skipjack and others are giving good advice based on experience.

Pescador - 8-1-2010 at 08:07 AM

I knew when we started this discussion that there would be people who came from the North Pole in a riveted Sears Aluminum boat and drug it behind the Jeep Wagoneer over the Baja Peninsula and launched it by dropping it from the cliffs at Santa Rosalia. I started coming to Mexico back in the mid to late 50's and at San Carlos in Sonora there was a trailer park, called Shangri-La, where the snowbirds stayed that had a sand beach and up to more than 100 cartop boats. The guys that worked the beach had volleyballs in sacks that they used for beach rollers and they knew pretty much which guys went out early and which ones could safely be put in the back rows. So, being the student of fishing, I listened to those old guys who had 1,000's of years of experience collectively. So, when I started coming to Baja years later, I already had a pretty good idea of what worked and what did not work. I also had the good fortune to fish with the cartop bunch at Los Muertos (before they shut that place down) and San Lucas Cove which was the Baja place to be for cartop boats. Ken Reeder and his friend developed a wheel system for launching cartops over the beach that has been copied and sort of duplicated. So anyway, the consensus with all that experience is that the boat of choice was the Gregor 14 Deep V and powered with a Honda 4 stroke in either 15 or 20. Even with that they did need to have some welding done to keep them going after years of use.
So, yes if the price is good, an old riveted boat can certainly be made to work but Acadist asked a good question and it deserved a good answer which he certainly managed to get. Shoot, if you have to, an innertube and an oar will work.
I now own an aluminum boat made in Australia which has 1/4 in plate on the hull and is beefed up like no other boat I have ever seen before or since, and I like the economy of this boat and it has worked well for me in the last few years.

acadist - 8-1-2010 at 08:26 AM

My main motivation for looking at boats now is dreaming, with that being said I am in a good position that if the right boat comes along within my price range (cheap) I can buy it or wait patiently as I save for really what I want (18-25 cuddy cabin with an outboard). Living in CO there are plenty of mountain lakes to use a small tin or trihull on, just if I get a small boat to hold me over, I want it to be able to go with it 1-2 times a year to Baja.

baitcast - 8-1-2010 at 08:45 AM

I,m not from the north pole :lol: but I,ve had some old boats just like Pomp,check out this 30' EGG Harbor,twin flat head sixs,it had everything some worked and some didn,t,did leaked some but the pumps worked,took a while to get places but I was never in a hurry anyway.

Ken Bondy - 8-1-2010 at 08:49 AM

This has been an interesting discussion, lots of boat knowledge and experience here. I would like to hear from you about the pros and cons of tin boats vs. inflatables. In the early 80s when we decided we were going to keep equipment, including boats, tanks, compressor, etc. at Punta San Francisquito, we debated between aluminum boats and inflatables and chose inflatables. Part of that decision was influenced by the fact that we were flying in, not driving, and we could easily haul the inflatable down in the airplane, and a tin boat would require a dedicated driving trip. In any event the two Metzelers we kept at PSFO served us very well for fishing, diving and occasionally waterskiing behind the big one, (the Elefant) with a Johnson 25hp. We also kept a smaller one (the Aztec) with a Johnson 7.5hp. We would occasionally go out in an aluminum boat and I always thought they were squirrely, always felt more comfortable in the inflatables. Here's the Elefant:



[Edited on 8-1-2010 by Ken Bondy]

Cypress - 8-1-2010 at 09:03 AM

A welded aluminum boat is hard to beat.:D

Skipjack Joe - 8-1-2010 at 09:08 AM

Hauling the Elephant up that beach must have been tiring, Ken.

You must have been very familiar with this scene:

BAJA2009-004.jpg - 44kB

Ken Bondy - 8-1-2010 at 09:19 AM

Very familiar with that scene Igor, one of the most beautiful on earth. Yes it was a change of life getting the Elefant up on the beach. If there was lots of help we could do it pretty quickly but if I was alone I had to do it with a pulley system attached to a palapa post. Six inches at a time, ugh. But it sure made the first draw on that Pacifico taste good!!

Skipjack Joe - 8-1-2010 at 09:42 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Ken Bondy
But it sure made the first draw on that Pacifico taste good!!


:lol::lol::lol:

No question about that! The minute our boat was secured we headed straight for their kitchen. Beer in hand, the next hour was spent on that 'porch' overlooking the Cortez trying to cool down in the light breeze that came from offshore. (The basketball hoops are still there).

acadist - 8-1-2010 at 06:29 PM

Pompano, can you swing by and pick this up for me:spingrin::spingrin::spingrin:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2000-Edgewater-14-w-50-Yamaha...