BajaNomad - Ensenada "Green Angel" Assassinated...

Ensenada "Green Angel" Assassinated...

Woooosh - 8-11-2010 at 12:49 PM

These "Green Angels" patrolling the highways for our safety was one of the best things about driving in Baja... now what?

http://www.afntijuana.info/afn/?p=10541

Ensenada, BC 11 AUGUST 2010 (AFN) .- Joaquín Méndez Aceves, 55 years old and police in the Green Angels, was killed Wednesday morning two blocks from his home in Ensenada, he received nine shots by handgun.

The incident occurred around 9:20 am on Calle Pedro tanners and Cienfuegos, in the Colonia Benito Juarez, north of Ensenada. At the time the officer wore his uniform and a vehicle tripularía Ranger pickup with a number R037, AM92174 plates with the tour to be conducted surveillance of Ensenada to San Quintin.

The agent had 30 years of service with the corporation and retiring this year, was from the state of Guanajuato, close friends said to the officer AFN.

[Edited on 8-11-2010 by Woooosh]

imagen3.jpg - 49kB

bajabass - 8-11-2010 at 12:54 PM

That is horrible news! I havenever needed them, but always feel better knowing they are there. 9 shots tells me an automatic. My condolences to his family and friends. A sad day for sure. :wow:

DENNIS - 8-11-2010 at 01:05 PM

For God's sake...Why????

DENNIS - 8-11-2010 at 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by fishabductor
Maybe he's the family of a cartel member.

That only calls for three, maybe four, bullets.

This whole country is being sucked down the crapper.

Angeles Verdes

Loretana - 8-11-2010 at 01:19 PM

All this awful news coming from Mexico is just so sad.
I feel so sorry for this man's family.

I was working in our greenhouses this morning here in Oregon with two of our employees who are from Apatzingan, Michoacan.
They told me they are afraid to ever go back to live in Mexico again. One of their cousins who owns large tracts of avocado orchards was kidnapped last year and has not been seen or heard from since. :no:

Makes me feel fortunate to enjoy Loreto as much as I do, considering what is happening in the rest of the country.

bajabass - 8-11-2010 at 01:23 PM

Without being insensitive, it appears narco related. 9 rounds is a message! Maybe he would not look the other way??

bajabass - 8-11-2010 at 01:41 PM

Amen Fishabductor!

dtbushpilot - 8-11-2010 at 02:37 PM

You'd think they could have covered him with something. They already have the area taped off, a couple of guys investigating, onlookers......how long would it take to throw something over the poor guy?.....dt

Bajahowodd - 8-11-2010 at 02:44 PM

I'm fairly sure that the Green Angel part of this had nothing to do with the killing. It had to be related to something in his personal life, as noted by some others here.

BillP - 8-11-2010 at 03:56 PM

This is a crying damn shame! 55 with 30 years service and ready to retire.

Wish we knew what was behind this.

bajabass - 8-11-2010 at 03:59 PM

One word answer, starts with D.

BajaBlanca - 8-11-2010 at 04:16 PM

too sad. too bad.

bajabass - 8-11-2010 at 05:05 PM

Diabolical dope dealing drug dazed dogs!!! Yup, that is the one! :light:

bajabass - 8-11-2010 at 05:36 PM

The scenes of graphic violence and crime dominate the Mexican media. I have been amazed at the things they show on the news, compared to the U.S. media. I am just sorry they have them to show! :no:

Most Americans do not see the gruesome results of violent crime in the U.S. In Mexico it is plastered all over tv, newspapers and magazines. Most NOB people live in fantasy land regarding the true impact of what we hear on the morning news.

Lessons unlearned

Dave - 8-11-2010 at 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajabass
The scenes of graphic violence and crime dominate the Mexican media... In Mexico it is plastered all over tv, newspapers and magazines.

And yet, it seems not to make any difference. Go figure. :rolleyes:

Bajafun777 - 8-11-2010 at 05:55 PM

We were in Ensenada on Wednesday and the downtown area is really hurting and things like this only make it worse. Sad and no matter what connections if any the man did not deserve such total termination by what ever lowlife that did this. Too bad and I feel for his family. When is enough going to be enough??? Travel Safe Nomads and Take Care At All Times. Military was really on guard Wednesday afternoon just as you exited the toll road going back towards San Diego this explains why. bajafun777

Mexicorn - 8-11-2010 at 06:38 PM

SAD! :mad:

Woooosh - 8-11-2010 at 06:41 PM

The weekly Zeta reports the cartels are growing poppies in the Ensenada area. Opium Hecho en Mexico. If this guy was on that beat for 30 years- he def knew too much and noticed any changes like that. I'm sure they would have had a retirement job for him given his connections- so maybe he refused an offer he shouldn't have or something.

bajabass - 8-11-2010 at 06:57 PM

Poppies in Ensenada. Mota in U.S. National Parks areas. Meth cooking all over North America. 500,000 pill E busts. Cartels own the Baja to Canada coast. I figure I have 25-35 years left above the ground. Time to go hide!

Woooosh - 8-12-2010 at 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajabass
Poppies in Ensenada. Mota in U.S. National Parks areas. Meth cooking all over North America. 500,000 pill E busts. Cartels own the Baja to Canada coast. I figure I have 25-35 years left above the ground. Time to go hide!

The only place we can hide is in the past- there is no place on earth to hide from the present. Enjoy all your "Leave it to Beaver" Americana memories of how things were- because sadly they will never be coming back.

bajabass - 8-12-2010 at 09:11 AM

Sad but true Whoosh. Growing up in the Midwest in the Sixties, Socal late teens to present, I've watched the quality of life spiral downwards. At this point in my life I just want a peaceful existence. I can't hide from all the crap going on in the world today, but I will carve out a little piece of sanity and security for my family.
Last week, right here in Orange, a lady was stabbed almost to death, in the parking lot at a Ralph's where my wife has shopped for 3 years, for her car!
Life in the city of peace looks like a great option to me. If it changes too much for the worse, I'll find another place, off the grid, and do it all over again. I can't stop or change the insanity that is going on everywhere, I can only do my best to avoid it!

wilderone - 8-12-2010 at 09:12 AM

"Enjoy all your "Leave it to Beaver" Americana memories of how things were- because sadly they will never be coming back."

Lots of leave-it-to-beaver locales in America if that's what you want. We hear of these incidents because we live in a border town and/or are interested in Mexico and seek out the information. Plenty of nonsensical, violence and murder in Africa as well. No reason why anyone must absorb all of the daily atrocities on earth as part of their life. Try to live your life by the golden rule and hopefully resultant blessings will negate the need to hide. Why not choose good news? We are ignorant of all that because it's not newsworthy. But goodness is all around you - create it for yourself.

bajabass - 8-12-2010 at 09:22 AM

Unfortunately every Leave It To Beaver locale now has a meth lab or two, a few convicted sex offenders living on Main Street, and a corrupt politician or three.
I grew up in Lansing, Mich. The news I get from my relatives makes it sound as bad or worse than Socal. That was a LITB town when I lived there. The O.C., 1973, small town U.S.A., west coast style. Beaver learns to surf!! Now it is drive by shootings, car jackings, and tweakers running wild. No place is perfect, I just need to find one a little less fornicated!

ELINVESTIG8R - 8-12-2010 at 10:13 AM

If their is a God I wish he would get off his DUFF and start striking down these evil people. WTF is he waiting for!

MsTerieus - 8-12-2010 at 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ELINVESTIG8R
If their is a God I wish he would get off his DUFF and start striking down these evil people. WTF is he waiting for!

Uhhh, Judgment Day?

surfer jim - 8-12-2010 at 10:36 AM

I wonder if he was being forced to transport something and he refused.Seems like it would be a good way to move "things" without being checked.

What would YOU do if caught in the same position? Tough question I think.

ELINVESTIG8R - 8-12-2010 at 10:40 AM

MsTerieus, I know... Wish he would not take so long! :lol:

wilderone - 8-13-2010 at 08:17 AM

"WTF is he waiting for!"

Accoding to the Maya, December 12, 2012.

Ken Bondy - 8-13-2010 at 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ELINVESTIG8R
If their is a God I wish he would get off his DUFF and start striking down these evil people. WTF is he waiting for!

He either can't do anything about it or he doesn't care. Therefore if he exists, he is either impotent or evil.

Woooosh - 8-13-2010 at 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajabass
Sad but true Whoosh. Growing up in the Midwest in the Sixties, Socal late teens to present, I've watched the quality of life spiral downwards. At this point in my life I just want a peaceful existence. I can't hide from all the crap going on in the world today, but I will carve out a little piece of sanity and security for my family.
Last week, right here in Orange, a lady was stabbed almost to death, in the parking lot at a Ralph's where my wife has shopped for 3 years, for her car!
Life in the city of peace looks like a great option to me. If it changes too much for the worse, I'll find another place, off the grid, and do it all over again. I can't stop or change the insanity that is going on everywhere, I can only do my best to avoid it!

You can carve out a piece of the world for yourself- but it will be lonely and most people getting on in age need more contact with the world, not less (doctors, benefits, etc).

Sadly I remember when 911 happened my thoughts were "I'm glad my parents didn't live to see the world come to this." The "greatest generation" lived and died for the good fight- the older relatives I have left agree they enjoyed the best years of our civilization. What time on Dec 21, 2012?

bajabass - 8-13-2010 at 11:21 AM

Whoosh, I think I can beat the system again! I opened my biz in the middle of the last recession, late 91. I am weeks, if not days away from selling. In the middle of this recession. I am almost 52 and done!
A higher power smiled and sent me an angel in the form of my wife, Dra. Bajabass. :saint:

A house in Baja Sur, paid for, a bright young doctor for my wife, a modest little fishing boat, and I will avoid 95% of the chite , at least for a while! :light:

I spoke with my wife about this very same thing last night. Heaven forbid, if La Paz goes to hell, we will find another place to live. I am basically in the last third of my life, and I will find peace and tranquility, or die trying! :lol:

Woooosh - 8-13-2010 at 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajabass
Whoosh, I think I can beat the system again! I opened my biz in the middle of the last recession, late 91. I am weeks, if not days away from selling. In the middle of this recession. I am almost 52 and done!
A higher power smiled and sent me an angel in the form of my wife, Dra. Bajabass. :saint:

A house in Baja Sur, paid for, a bright young doctor for my wife, a modest little fishing boat, and I will avoid 95% of the chite , at least for a while! :light:

I wish you all the good fishing and peace in La Paz you two deserve. I'd like to be comforted by the "good things happen to good people" thing- but I watch too much news to buy that now. Life pretty much sucks for most of the world and here we are planning the Baja dream. Sure there are some bumps and warts in Mexico- but most of the world has satge 3 cancer. Last third of your life? What happened to "55 is the new 40"?

toneart - 8-13-2010 at 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by wilderone
"WTF is he waiting for!"

Accoding to the Maya, December 12, 2012.

That's what I'm waiting for. :smug:

In the mean time, can I hide out here in The BajaNomad Forum? Come on now...Don't rat me out. :no:

ELINVESTIG8R - 8-13-2010 at 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ken Bondy

He either can't do anything about it or he doesn't care. Therefore if he exists, he is either impotent or evil.

If this was not so tragic I would laugh!

bajabass - 8-13-2010 at 02:24 PM

Dear Mr. Whoosh,
It is not the years, it is the miles!!! Self-chosen rough life. Motocross, Marine Corps, Mechanicing, Marlboro, Maker's Mark, and lots more I won't mention!!!

I hope my math is wrong, so I can look out to the water until I'm 100. I truly think I'll have a better chance there vs. here. :yes:

Be a lot happier also. :tumble:

MsTerieus - 8-13-2010 at 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajabass
Dear Mr. Whoosh,
It is not the years, it is the miles!!! Self-chosen rough life. Motocross, Marine Corps, Mechanicing, Marlboro, Maker's Mark, and lots more I won't mention!!!

I hope my math is wrong, so I can look out to the water until I'm 100. I truly think I'll have a better chance there vs. here. :yes:

Be a lot happier also. :tumble:

So many Ms!

wilderone - 8-14-2010 at 08:05 AM

"He either can't do anything about it or he doesn't care. Therefore if he exists, he is either impotent or evil."

The truth: Human beings on earth either can't do anything about it or they don't care enough to attempt to do the right thing. Therefore, human being are either impotent or evil or cowardly in their willingness to allow other evils to persist. God allows human beings to conduct their own lives, make their own hell. Or fight against evil. For every action there is a reaction, and we absolutely cannot presume to know what the ripple effect creates.
Sorry for the hijack, but the original statement is just so wrong.

Ken Bondy - 8-14-2010 at 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by wilderone
God allows human beings to conduct their own lives, make their own hell.

How do you know this?

DENNIS - 8-14-2010 at 08:12 AM

OK....I have to sit down. This is as close as we will ever see Ken Bondy getting into an arguement. :biggrin:

Ken Bondy - 8-14-2010 at 08:21 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS
OK....I have to sit down. This is as close as we will ever see Ken Bondy getting into an arguement. :biggrin:

I know it's out of character DENNIS, but I take the bait too easily on religion :spingrin:

DENNIS - 8-14-2010 at 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ken Bondy

I know it's out of character DENNIS, but I take the bait too easily on religion :spingrin:

Understood, Ken. Some things just call for firm resolve.

TMW - 8-14-2010 at 08:48 AM

Ken I think there is a difference in religion and a belief in God. Perhaps I should say organized religion for lack of a better phrase. Too many have hijacked a belief in God in the name of religion. Look at the Sunday morning TV preacher who later gets caught with a hooker or the values of marriage and is caught in a gay relationship. The catholics with the abuse problems. I don't know if God actually spoke to who ever wrote the bible or not but I think it is a good book to follow, especially the new testiment with Jesus teaches. Personally I view God as the spirit that brought life to all living things. I don't necessarily think there is a heaven or hell as some present it. The motive behind that seems to me at more of controlling people to do right from wrong, but doing right and wrong is in each of us. It's our conscious. If a spiritual God gave us anything that is it.

I think we live in better times today than at any time in the past. It's how we use all the things that are available to us now. Things seem worse sometimes because of the 24/7 news cycle of especially cable news shows and the internet. You can walk down a street now and get instant news on your Iphone, blackberry or what have you. 30-40 years ago you had to wait for the evening news or listen to a news radio station.

David K - 8-14-2010 at 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by TW
Ken I think there is a difference in religion and a belief in God. Perhaps I should say organized religion for lack of a better phrase. Too many have hijacked a belief in God in the name of religion. Look at the Sunday morning TV preacher who later gets caught with a hooker or the values of marriage and is caught in a gay relationship. The catholics with the abuse problems. I don't know if God actually spoke to who ever wrote the bible or not but I think it is a good book to follow, especially the new testiment with Jesus teaches. Personally I view God as the spirit that brought life to all living things. I don't necessarily think there is a heaven or hell as some present it. The motive behind that seems to me at more of controlling people to do right from wrong, but doing right and wrong is in each of us. It's our conscious. If a spiritual God gave us anything that is it.

Ken Bondy - 8-14-2010 at 09:07 AM

TW I agree there is a vast difference between religion and spirituality. I prefer the broader term "spirituality" to the concept of a belief, without evidence, in some personal supernatural "god". I think humans need spirituality, and we each find it in different ways (nature, evolutionary biology, mathematics, cosmology...). Religion, on the other hand, is the most dangerous single thing in the world today, it threatens the very future of civilization. Virtually every major conflict or mass human cruelty in history has been based in some way on religion (9/11, the Inquisition, the Crusades, for several examples). Now that truly religious people, people who actually BELIEVE what their holy books say, have access to nuclear weapons, the future of life on earth is at risk.

Packoderm - 8-14-2010 at 09:25 AM

Isn't shooting a Green Angel about the same as shooting the ice cream man? They only do that in the rougher neighborhoods around here.

woody with a view - 8-14-2010 at 09:32 AM

define "here" and i'll steer clear....

Packoderm - 8-14-2010 at 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by woody with a view
define "here" and i'll steer clear....

North of the border. They did actually kill one just a few miles from where I live a few years ago.

DENNIS - 8-14-2010 at 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Packoderm
Isn't shooting a Green Angel about the same as shooting the ice cream man? They only do that in the rougher neighborhoods around here.

I'm guessing we'll never know the full story on this one.

wilderone - 8-14-2010 at 10:38 AM

"How do you know this?"
I see it with my own eyes every day. I "know" this because I have experienced it. I know this because I have studied for years about the big "WHY" - driven by extraordinary events - and, as a result, have also come to believe what others have personally experienced and shared. You can believe what you want, live the way you want - I'm speaking for myself and only trying to share what I have come to know through little miracles, seeing small pieces of the divine puzzle put into place, which in turn tells me I have so little understanding of the PLAN. I can only choose acceptance of some things, faith in other things, hope for other things, and a conscious or mostly unconscious willingness to follow the path we chose before we were born onto this plane we call earth. Being put through hell on earth has its merits. If your life is not tasked with unduly harsh experiences - physical, spiritual, economic - then you haven't had the opportunity to learn some of these truths, therefore, you're not in a position to tell those of us who have that they do not exist.

Ken Bondy - 8-14-2010 at 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by wilderone
"How do you know this?"
I see it with my own eyes every day. I "know" this because I have experienced it. I know this because I have studied for years about the big "WHY" - driven by extraordinary events - and, as a result, have also come to believe what others have personally experienced and shared. You can believe what you want, live the way you want - I'm speaking for myself and only trying to share what I have come to know through little miracles, seeing small pieces of the divine puzzle put into place, which in turn tells me I have so little understanding of the PLAN. I can only choose acceptance of some things, faith in other things, hope for other things, and a conscious or mostly unconscious willingness to follow the path we chose before we were born onto this plane we call earth. Being put through hell on earth has its merits. If your life is not tasked with unduly harsh experiences - physical, spiritual, economic - then you haven't had the opportunity to learn some of these truths, therefore, you're not in a position to tell those of us who have that they do not exist.

None of that is evidence, wilderone, it is just belief without evidence. Your statement that "God allows human beings to conduct their own lives, make their own hell" presumes (without evidence) that God exists, and then goes on to state things with certainty that cannot possibly be known.

Skipjack Joe - 8-14-2010 at 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ken Bondy
TW I agree there is a vast difference between religion and spirituality. I prefer the broader term "spirituality" to the concept of a belief, without evidence, in some personal supernatural "god". I think humans need spirituality, and we each find it in different ways (nature, evolutionary biology, mathematics, cosmology...).

Spirituality is a state of being and religion is dogma. Places of worship can help you enter the state of being but for most people it does not. Of those examples I feel that only nature approached a certain way can lead to spirituality. The others, Ken, seem to belong fo the world of rationalism.

Quote:

Originally posted by TW
The motive behind that seems to me at more of controlling people to do right from wrong, but doing right and wrong is in each of us. It's our conscious. If a spiritual God gave us anything that is it.

Spirituality has almost nothing to do with morality. Morality has to do with our roots in survival as a species. Every species with a social order has a sense of right and wrong and it has to do with supporting themselves as a group. That makes more sense to me than a God given conscience that keeps us on track as taught by the church. TW, you have separated yourself from the religion but not from it's teachings.

vandenberg - 8-14-2010 at 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ken Bondy

None of that is evidence, wilderone, it is just belief without evidence. Your statement that "God allows human beings to conduct their own lives, make their own hell" presumes (without evidence) that God exists, and then goes on to state things with certainty that cannot possibly be known.

An argument which has been waged ever since the birth of mankind, and will never have an answer.
Or, maybe after we croak. :?:

Not holding my breath. :biggrin:

[Edited on 8-14-2010 by vandenberg]

MsTerieus - 8-14-2010 at 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by TW
Ken I think there is a difference in religion and a belief in God. Look at the Sunday morning TV preacher who ... [preaches?] the values of marriage and is caught in a gay relationship.

Nothing inconsistent about that, if he supports Gay marriage. :spingrin:

MsTerieus - 8-14-2010 at 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by vandenberg

Quote:

An argument which has been waged ever since the birth of mankind, and will never have an answer.
Or, maybe after we croak. :?:

Not holding my breath. :biggrin:

And the argument will continue to go on until Man no longer exists (whether he destroys himself as a result of religion or otherwise). There's no changing the fact that many people worship and/or believe in a supernatural God who controls their destinies. I wonder why people keep arguing about it or thinking they can change it.

durrelllrobert - 8-14-2010 at 11:26 AM

maybe at some time in the recent past he had stopped to help a cartel member with a flat tire or something. Even happens to even expensive cars on MX roads and of course he would have recorded the plate number, etc. which they wouldn't take kindly too.

DENNIS - 8-14-2010 at 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ken Bondy
then goes on to state things with certainty that cannot possibly be known.

There's even a word [well...it's more than just a word] for it...Faith. I spent seven years in a Catholic school trying to figure that one out.
Never did. I forced me into a period of scepticism from which I never emerged.

Ken Bondy - 8-14-2010 at 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skipjack JoeSpirituality has almost nothing to do with morality. Morality has to do with our roots in survival as a species. Every species with a social order has a sense of right and wrong and it has to do with supporting themselves as a group. That makes more sense to me than a God given conscience that keeps us on track as taught by the church. TW, you have separated yourself from the religion but not from it's teachings.

Igor I fully agree that morality has been demonstrated in many primate species. However I emphatically disagree that we get our morality from the teachings of religion, especially the popular religions. Where exactly is the morality in a religion that advocates slavery (Leviticus 25:44), permits selling your daughter into slavery (Exodus 21:7), killing people for working on the Sabbath (Exodus 35:2), and killing your children for talking back to you (Leviticus 20:9, Exodus 21:15 and 17)?

DENNIS - 8-14-2010 at 11:33 AM

Oh Oh...........I'm halucinating. Could have sworn there was another post up there.
I was going to offer that the cats names are Yin and Yang:

http://tinyurl.com/22joc5q

DENNIS - 8-14-2010 at 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by fishabductor
There was, but I realized the cats were not in fact 69ing...schucks!!

Yeah...I know. Sometimes the details are so cumbersome we just have to forget about them. :lol:

Pascal's Wager

Skipjack Joe - 8-14-2010 at 11:54 AM

Jesus, Ken, you know the bible much better than I do. I don't think I could find those passages. I would have to see if there are not alterior lessons in those passages that it's trying to point out.

When you come against decisions about something you can't prove you enter the world of probability to help you decide.

That's how modern man decides. The doctor says you have a 30% chance of survival and you are left with hope.

This excerpt from Pensees was influential to me at one time. I got it from Wiki. In the end, however, it was not satisfying.

1. "God is, or He is not"
2. A game is being played... where heads or tails will turn up.
3. According to reason, you can defend neither of the propositions.
4. You must wager. It is not optional.

Your reason is no more shocked in choosing one rather than the other, since you must of necessity choose.
Let us weigh the gain and the loss in wagering that God is. Let us estimate these two chances. If you gain, you gain all; if you lose, you lose nothing.

5. Wager, then, without hesitation that He is.

There is an eternity of life and happiness (to gain if correct)
There is here an infinity (length) of an infinitely happy life to gain, a chance of gain
A finite number of chances of loss
What you stake is finite
When one is forced to play, he must renounce reason to preserve his life
When there is the finite to stake in a game where there are equal risks of gain and of loss, and the infinite to gain.

6. (Some would say) "Yes, but I have my hands tied and my mouth closed; I am forced to wager, and am not free. I am not released, and am so made that I cannot believe. What, then, would you have me do?"

Learn your inability to believe
Learn of those who have been bound like you, and who now stake all their possessions
Follow the way by which they began; by acting as if they believed

MsTerieus - 8-14-2010 at 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by Ken Bondy
then goes on to state things with certainty that cannot possibly be known.

Poor baby. I myself was reared by Athiests. Same result ...

drarroyo - 8-14-2010 at 12:21 PM

Quote:

DENNIS - 8-14-2010 at 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MsTerieus
Poor baby. I myself was reared by Athiests.

Now...if I wasn't such a nice guy with confused Christian ideals, I'd take this statement and run with it, but I won't. :lol:

woody with a view - 8-14-2010 at 12:46 PM

but, where would your run to Big D? :light:

DENNIS - 8-14-2010 at 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by woody with a view
but, where would your run to Big D? :light:

Wellllll.....considering the mutated subject matter, I'd probably be running in circles. O

Bajahowodd - 8-14-2010 at 12:55 PM

So. I just spent valuable time reading a four page thread about a Green Angel being shot to death, and mostly what I've learned is that Dennis and MsTerieus are both agnostic? :lol:

[Edited on 8-14-2010 by Bajahowodd]

woody with a view - 8-14-2010 at 01:00 PM

i'd say antagonistic, but i'm not religious..... :saint:

Woody Allen

Skipjack Joe - 8-14-2010 at 01:08 PM

He's always good for these kind of discussions:

Sonja: Boris, Let me show you how absurd your position is. Let's say there is no God, and each man is free to do exactly as he chooses. What prevents you from murdering somebody?
Boris: Murder's immoral.
Sonja: Immorality is subjective.
Boris: Yes, but subjectivity is objective.
Sonja: Not in a rational scheme of perception.
Boris: Perception is irrational. It implies immanence.
Sonja: But judgment of any system or a priori relation of phenomena exists in any rational or metaphysical or at least epistemological contradiction to an abstracted empirical concept such as being or to be or to occur in the thing itself or of the thing itself.
Boris: Yeah, I've said that many times

Mexitron - 8-14-2010 at 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
He's always good for these kind of discussions:

Sonja: Boris, Let me show you how absurd your position is. Let's say there is no God, and each man is free to do exactly as he chooses. What prevents you from murdering somebody?
Boris: Murder's immoral.
Sonja: Immorality is subjective.
Boris: Yes, but subjectivity is objective.
Sonja: Not in a rational scheme of perception.
Boris: Perception is irrational. It implies immanence.
Sonja: But judgment of any system or a priori relation of phenomena exists in any rational or metaphysical or at least epistemological contradiction to an abstracted empirical concept such as being or to be or to occur in the thing itself or of the thing itself.
Boris: Yeah, I've said that many times

That's as good an explanation as any Skipjack!

There's an old African saying that after God created the world he threw away the key...of course that's metaphor and its just showing that whatever God or the source of all this is is a mystery and it will always be a mystery. The screwy thing about humans is that someone will take it literally and create a religion around finding a lost key (aka The Grail)! Metaphor (mythology) is a wonderful thing to unlock your psyche and journey inwards, if you are so inclined, but beware the institutionalizing of it. Houston Smith said the upside to religion is that its carrying a body of spiritual knowledge through time but what a price...maybe.

[Edited on 8-14-2010 by Mexitron]

DENNIS - 8-14-2010 at 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajahowodd
So. I just spent valuable time reading a four page thread about a Green Angel being shot to death, and mostly what I've learned is that Dennis and MsTerieus are both agnostic? :lol:

I don't believe MsT is agnostic. May have been, but not now. Especially not today, being the Sabbath for some.

vandenberg - 8-14-2010 at 03:13 PM

Isn't it amazing, how a thread about the murder of some poor "Green Angel" evolved into a thread about religion or the believe in the lack thereoff. :?:

Will we find out, after we kick the proverbial bucket, what this was all about..... or...... will going back to mother earth, be the grand finally. :?:

The old dust to dust and nothing else believe.
Which means, no final judgment for kind folks like Hitler, Stalin, and all the other miscreants of this world. :no:

Natalie Ann - 8-14-2010 at 03:25 PM

Religion, Spirituality.... be flexible.

nena

MsTerieus - 8-14-2010 at 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by woody with a view
i'd say antagonistic, but i'm not religious..... :saint:

Timo1 - 8-14-2010 at 04:54 PM

here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHiuaGJ46zo
Its almost 2 hours of compelling stuff

Mexicorn - 8-14-2010 at 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Timo1
here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHiuaGJ46zo
Its almost 2 hours of compelling stuff

After listening to it for two minutes of it I felt complled to move to Guana and drink Jim Jones kool aide

MsTerieus - 8-14-2010 at 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mexicorn

Quote:

Originally posted by Timo1
here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHiuaGJ46zo
Its almost 2 hours of compelling stuff

After listening to it for two minutes of it I felt complled to move to Guana and drink Jim Jones kool aide

Ken Bondy - 8-14-2010 at 05:54 PM

That glue commercial is fabulous Nena!! How did you ever find that?

toneart - 8-14-2010 at 05:58 PM

Yes, Vandenberg,

It is interesting how a string about the murder of a Green Angel (or an Ice Cream Man), has evolved into a discussion about the validity of the belief in God, or not.

This is probably a natural step. This shocking story of such a benevolent figure as a Green Angel causes all of us to look inward for an answer to the question, "How could this be?"

This is a good discussion! And it is really not an "antagonistic" one. There is some good stuff contributed by some good minds here. We all tap into our individual belief systems and come up with our own answers. It is nice to see these argued civilly and shared.

A Green Angel murdered? How can this be?

We may never know, but the question shall remain a rhetorical one, as does the question of religion. :light:

From a Friend

Gypsy Jan - 8-14-2010 at 06:02 PM

Living in the high country in Ensenada.

The Mexican authorities arrived at his door. His entire property was searched, up to and including an empty, locked briefcase in his storage area, which, when they ordered him to open it, he was so flustered couldn't remember the combination.

He took a few deep breaths and then was able to open it.

The team in his house left and hit the road.

DENNIS - 8-14-2010 at 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gypsy Jan
Living in the high country in Ensenada.

Where might this be located?

Sorry Dennis

Gypsy Jan - 8-14-2010 at 07:12 PM

No can do.

Natalie Ann - 8-14-2010 at 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ken Bondy
That glue commercial is fabulous Nena!! How did you ever find that?

Sent to me by a friend and fellow member of a spiritual group, Ken.
She said it reminded her of the amusement with which I approach religion. :biggrin:

nena

Woooosh - 8-14-2010 at 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ken Bondy

Quote:

The earliest full version of the Christian new testament is now posted free on line. It's not all intact- but hey... it's old. Some old testament chapters too. The original language is Arabic I think. You enter by chapter and verse to see the subtle differences from contemporary bibles. Also interesting to read the books the catholic church edited out over time. If you thought ancestry.com can kill an afternoon- don't even click on this link:

http://www.codexsinaiticus.org/en/

[Edited on 8-15-2010 by Woooosh]

Ken Bondy - 8-14-2010 at 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by WooooshThe first written bible is now posted free on line. It's not all intact- but hey... they're old scrolls. The original language is Arabic I think. You enter by chapter and verse to see the subtle differences from contemporary bibles. Also interesting to read the gospels the church edited out over time. If you thought ancestry.com can kill an afternoon- don't even click on this link:

http://www.codexsinaiticus.org/en/

Woooosh the original language of the old testament was Hebrew and the original language of the new testament was Greek.

Skipjack Joe - 8-14-2010 at 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ken Bondy

Where exactly is the morality in a religion that advocates ...

killing your children for talking back to you (Leviticus 20:9, Exodus 21:15 and 17)?

Well I have to say it's tempting.

ELINVESTIG8R - 8-15-2010 at 08:28 AM

God...Who started this?

Ken Bondy - 8-15-2010 at 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ELINVESTIG8R
God...Who started this?

Wait....didn't he start everything??? Just kidding, I think I started it. Would it help if I said I was sorry? :biggrin:

SDRonni - 8-15-2010 at 09:01 AM

Skipjack, that was hilarious!

jajaja

BFS - 8-15-2010 at 09:02 AM

Nena!!!! Thats a funny ad. Perfect and appropriate for a sunday morning. Church is blown out today...

bfs

TMW - 8-15-2010 at 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ken Bondy

Quote:

Originally posted by ELINVESTIG8R
God...Who started this?

Wait....didn't he start everything??? Just kidding, I think I started it. Would it help if I said I was sorry? :biggrin:

No, you have to stay until the bitter end and take what punishment the Almighty hands out. Perhaps take away your scuba camera.

Ken Bondy - 8-15-2010 at 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by TW

Quote:

Originally posted by Ken Bondy

Quote:

Originally posted by ELINVESTIG8R
God...Who started this?

Wait....didn't he start everything??? Just kidding, I think I started it. Would it help if I said I was sorry? :biggrin:

No, you have to stay until the bitter end and take what punishment the Almighty hands out. Perhaps take away your scuba camera.

Oh please, not THAT!!! He (she) will have to rip it out of my cold dead hands. :biggrin:

MsTerieus - 8-15-2010 at 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Natalie Ann

Quote:

Originally posted by Ken Bondy
That glue commercial is fabulous Nena!! How did you ever find that?

Sent to me by a friend and fellow member of a spiritual group, Ken.
She said it reminded her of the amusement with which I approach religion. :biggrin:

nena

Ya know, I THINK I remember seeing that ad on TV (network). I'm surprised that it was allowed! :lol:

wessongroup - 8-15-2010 at 05:30 PM

Thinking About Time Before the Big Bang

http://www.universetoday.com/15051/thinking-about-time-befor...

for discussion? ... or genesis of additional thought ? ...

Mexicorn - 8-15-2010 at 05:53 PM

Ah yea! :saint:

Mexitron - 8-15-2010 at 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by wessongroup
Thinking About Time Before the Big Bang

http://www.universetoday.com/15051/thinking-about-time-befor...

for discussion? ... or genesis of additional thought ? ...

Another way to think about time is to imagine that the present moment is the genesis of time and that the past and future emanate outwards...that is, the past and future are constructs, in a way...we tend to think of time and space as causal and linear (in non-quantum states) but perhaps it isn't quite as it seems...great stuff to ponder...

wessongroup - 8-15-2010 at 06:38 PM

helps to some degree in thinking about "our" life, in the scope of "things"... so to speak...

did not mean to hijack rather think a positive thought about the individual who's time ...... well thats the thought... there are other possibilities as we don't really know everything yet.... least I don't think so

ultimately infinity=infinity

so we have some time.... we might meet again... its not goodbye, rather "see ya"

[Edited on 8-16-2010 by wessongroup]

Skipjack Joe - 8-15-2010 at 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SDRonni

Skipjack, that was hilarious!

Oh good. I hope that gets me off the hook about my feet. :rolleyes:

DENNIS - 8-15-2010 at 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
Oh good. I hope that gets me off the hook about my feet. :rolleyes:

Most men I know will only talk about their inches. :lol:

Marc - 8-16-2010 at 08:58 PM

It was all so easy in '69. God, I miss the smell of napalm in the morning! :smug: