jrbaja - 7-25-2004 at 07:53 PM
I have an 84 4wd small size Dodge pick up. I want to tow it to La Paz and I have heard stories about not towing 4wd.
Anybody know about this stuff ?
Germanicus - 7-25-2004 at 11:49 PM
it is not so much about 4 wd than about auto-trans or manual box.
All manufacturers of automatic transmissions recommend not to tow a vehicle for more than 20 mls and no more than 40 mls in speed.
Makes sense to me, as the oil in the auto-trans is reacting on the power from the rear tires and not from the engine - even if in "N" > nutral
And it is about lubrication somehow.
Disengage the front (4 wd) and disconnect the driveshaft to rear (take it out) and y'll be fine.
The front only 'works' when engaged, right?
And without the driveshaft in place you can tow the vehicle to the moon, nothing can hurt the trans as no power is transferred from the tires to the
trans.
Recommendation: Towing over a long distance a towbar is really relaxing.
Much better than a rope.
Germanicus
4baja - 7-26-2004 at 06:09 AM
some trannys if you remove the rear drive shaft all the fluid will leak out. bettr to just remove it from the rear pumpkin and tie it up out of the
way. same with the front. good luck 
Bob and Susan - 7-26-2004 at 06:35 AM
Jr
Susan and I just picked up our tow bar in San Diego yesterday for a Samuri we purchased.
The manufacture only talks about automatics.
These tow bars are made for manual transmissions and automatics with a transmission pump.
Just put the transmission in neutral and unlock the steering wheel.
I've seen these Suzuki Samuris towed all over baja. They are 4 wheel drive.
I think I will disconnect the battery since the ignition will be on for the tow.
Don't use a rope to tow....
bob
TMW - 7-26-2004 at 07:23 AM
If you have the operating manual that comes with it when new it will explain how to tow it. Otherwise check with a dealer. Most after market tow bars
bolt to your front bumper (you have to drill holes), I would suggest you modify it so it mounts where the front tow hooks are or make it so it mounts
to the frame. Any good welding shop can do it for about $50. Most 4x4 can be towed by putting the transfer case in neutral, transmission in neutral
and key on to unlock the steering wheel, and disconnect the battery. Some don't have transfer case neutral like the Toyotas in which case you'd have
to disconnect the driveshaft. Again check with the manual and/or dealer.
Also when towing avoid S turns in parking lots or stop signs or you'll be pulling the front wheels sideways.
[Edited on 7-26-2004 by TW]
bajalou - 7-26-2004 at 01:08 PM
I have a Bronco II, with electric transfer case and automatic hubs - no nutral in transfer case unless I remove motor and manualy put it there.
Instructions are to disconnect rear driveshaft, but I've towed it 5-6 thousand miles without and it's still 4 wheeling at 305,000 miles.
Dave - 7-26-2004 at 05:22 PM
If you can wait till February I'll drive it down for you.
That's the second offer
jrbaja - 7-26-2004 at 05:40 PM
I've had for that.
I'll be making plenty of trips guys so we will work it out for Feb. as well.
Germanicus - 7-26-2004 at 05:45 PM
well opinions are going 180 degrees apart.
Just putting in "N" is a bad idea with a Dodge. A Dodge is not a Suzuki.
Towbars are there for any towing > just safer than ropes.
Espacially when the vehicle you are towing got no brakes(when engine is not running and the power is lost)
Or do you want to risk that the vehicle in rear is slamming in the front one????
Disconnecting the battery > another bad idea.
You cannot flash the lights or honk the horn in case of an emergency of the guy who is steering the towed vehicle.
Now it depends on:::: Is the vehicle you wanna tow > immoble?
Be careful , you might not have power brakes and steering.
A dangerous attempt to tow over long distances.
If the vehicle you wanna tow has a running engine (well than you don't need to tow it!) but that's the best you can have as brakes and steering is
o.k.
Otherwise I would highly recommend , get a doggy cart from U-haul > those where you can lift the front wheels into.
Take care my friend, what you are intending to do might cost you more (exident) than renting a doggy cart.
AND: you only need one person to drive that road train.
Germanicus
Yallz Crackin me up !!
jrbaja - 7-26-2004 at 07:02 PM
It runs, I don't want to stick anybody in it because we will be having too much fun in the van, and it's about 800 miles of some really really bad
road.
Germanicus, I HIGHLY recommend you take a drive down it and explore a little prior to enacting your plans.
Thanks to all for the advice. Dinners ready.
Germanicus - 7-26-2004 at 07:37 PM
jr,
I will !!!
thanx again for your advice > I highly appreciate ANY advice.
My plan is: Exploring the Baja for at least 6 month (and I am fully aware that nobody can learn everything about a foreign country within 6 month)
I will travel the Baja for those 6 month ( it's an estimate. If it takes a year > fine with me)
And I would also appreciate meeting you!
(If you agree)
> same wit Skeet/Loreto < (he doesn't know yet)
I will have a meeting before even entering Mexico with Daid K and Bob H @ the San Diego region.
Both concidered nice guys !!!!!
I'll keep you posted about any progress here.
Kind Regs
Germanicus
Anonymous - 7-27-2004 at 12:42 AM
OK.....Ok...I have to offer my .02 cents.
Bedman here, in Stealth Mode >>>>>>>
I tow a Suzuki Sidekick 4W, 5 speed manual tranny with Detroit lockers behind my motorhome. Here are the rules for "Suzuki" towing. I Repeat
....."SUZUKI" Towing.
The 4 wd Transfer case is shifted into "Neutral" .
The Transmission is shifted into 2nd gear. (Thats Right, 2nd gear)
The key is put in the on position. (You need the Steering wheel Unlocked)
The Battery is connected. (No battery=No lights)
You need to connect the turn, brake and running lights And a ground wire to the towed vehicle.
Every 200 miles you need to stop the tow vehicle and start up the "Towed" vehicle and gently rev it for 2 minutes. This lubricates all the moving
parts in the tranny, transfer and rear end.
JR, I can probably get you more definitive information for your Dodge 4 wheel drive, but I need more Definitive info about it. Is it Manual trans?
What motor? What model Dodge?
You can rent a "T" bar tow rig. It will attach directly to your towed vehicles bumper and if you have a tow ball on the towing vehicle it will connect
directly to that. The wiring is pretty straight forward. More than likely you have a 4 wire loom. left turn, right turn, brake, and running lights.
Let me know and I'll get you the info.
Bedman
Bob and Susan - 7-27-2004 at 06:02 AM
Bedman,
We haven't towed our Suzuki yet.
Got the tow bat on but I need weld to the frame.
How fast do you drive????
Our new Suzuki will only go 65MPH full out...75MPH downhill!!!!
If we put the thing in 2nd gear we'll only be going 15MPH.
That will increase our time down Mulege to 5 days....
Why do we need the battery hooked up? The current comes from the tow car like a trailer.
200 miles is about all the distance we can drive till we need a "pitstop"...old age you know
Bedman
jrbaja - 7-27-2004 at 07:57 AM
It says 1984 Dodge Power Ram 50 Sport.
It has a manual 5 speed trans.
Personally, I had never seen one of these trucks. I hear they are the same as a Mitsubishi but definitely a new one on me.
Thanks you guys.
Bedman - 7-27-2004 at 08:10 PM
Bob and Susan,
Hmmmm.......How fast.... Well, I've been accused of going too fast. 4Baja (SteveooOO) says I drive at a pretty good clip. I guess I average on Mex #1
about 60 or 65 on the straight aways. In the states I've been up to 80 with the little Suzuki hanging on back there for Dear Life.
Couple of reasons for the battery to remain hooked up.
#1 Convenience!! Who wants to go to the hassle of disconnecting it?
#2 If you have a radio it loses all of the preset channels.
#3 The tow cars battery and alternator have to send the juice to the towed car. The longer the wires the weaker the power at the lights.
#4 The battery in the tow car will not go dead. As you so aptly pointed out " The current comes from the tow car like a trailer" Hence the tow car
will keep the Towed cars battery charged and the lights will be visible during daylight hours.
Also.....just for the record. Are you using a Brake Buddy? Or do you have brake assist for the Towed car? I know the Brake Buddies are expensive, but
if you have a light vehicle towing it's a good idea.
When you shift the "Transfer case" into Neutral it disengages the transmission and when you put the "Transmission" in 2nd gear, it's still basically
in Neutral. (The Owners manual will confirm this. Read it!) The reason you put the Tranny into 2nd gear (I've been told by Suzuki Authorized Dealers)
is so the Tranny will continue to turn slowly and sling oil to lubricate it.
Hope this info helps. I've towed my Sidekick almost 40,000 miles and have never had a problem.
Bedman
Bedman - 7-27-2004 at 08:13 PM
JR,
I'll look it up tonight and get you an answer .
Bedman
Thanks Amigo !!!
jrbaja - 7-27-2004 at 08:36 PM
I'd hate to have my van break, go to pull it with the truck, and it doesn't work either. I did buy a new tow rope and some pillows though!
Muchas gracias para su ayuda.
Bedman - 7-29-2004 at 12:23 AM
JR,
Seems that anybody that knows the definitive answer on How to Towa 1984 Dodge Ram 50 4X4 is either dead or can't remember last Tuesday!!
I've asked 4 different Mechanic friends and the best answer they could give me is:
#1 Disconnect the rear drive shaft.
#2 Shift the transfer case into Neutral.
Even the Dodge Ram Guys at http://www.allpar.com/model/ram/faq.html and the good folks at Good Sam RV Towed Vehicles web site were scratching their heads.
If I get any more info in the next few days, I'll email you ASAP!!
Bedman
Bob and Susan - 7-29-2004 at 06:11 AM
Bedman
Thanks for the answer...
When you buy a "New" ($1450) 1986 Suzuki Samuari sometimes the owners manual is missing
I never even thought of the fact that when you shift the transfer case out of gear your 2 wheel drive doesn't work. I'll put it in second as you said
to keep it oiled.
I did think it would be in gear and it would be turning the engine....stupid uh...
No extra brakes...Our Dodge 4x4 3500 will stop it...I think
We will tow it only once...one way.
You are also right about the radio..it's a pain when you disconnect the battery. I'll work around it.
I haven't wired it yet but just plan to wire it like I would a boat trailer then I am sure the lites will work.
[Edited on 7-29-2004 by Bob and Susan]
[Edited on 7-29-2004 by Bob and Susan]
bajalou - 7-29-2004 at 11:07 AM
There's a little adapter you usually need when running turn signals etc of a towed import from "US" made auto. Just a few bucks at Kragen or Auto
Zone. Might want to check.
Here's the plan...
dbrooks - 7-29-2004 at 12:40 PM
Step 1: Sell the Dodge. All Dodge's = P.O.S.
Step 2: Buy an '83 Toyota.
Step 3: Tow Toyota anywhere you want to go - without messing with anything.
Toyota's are indestructible.
Any questions?
Germanicus - 7-29-2004 at 01:01 PM
jr, > summary:
you said it's an power ram with manual box, o.k.?
With a manual box you don't need to take the powershaft out.
A manual box in "nutral" (which is not called nutral but "no gear") no popwer from the rear axle is transfered to the box.
> you know that, I guess. If there is any gear in and you are releasing the clutch, the engine wants to crnak.
So no gear > no power > as the clutch disconnects the engine from the box.
So. if it is a manual, you can tow it to the moon without damaging anything.
Talking battery.
It depends on whether or not you wanna drive by night.
If you do not disconnect the battery and the guy in the vehicle beeing towed needs to signal anything to the guy upfront, he just needs to put the
ignition on and he can honk the horn, he can flash the headlights etc.
It remains the question whether or not you wanna run the engine all the times.
But its the safest way to tow, nobody ( as samrt as can be, can deny that)
I said it already, without engine power you got no power steering, no power brakes. (indicator just works with "ignition on".)
So, breaking in an emergency might run the second car into the first one.
Think asbout it, only with engine running you got all the features you need to operate a vehicle safely.
It is maybe not so much about sagfety than demaging one vehicle.
A dead engine makes no power at all and all the breaking, steering, indicating is just difficult.
Germanicus
Dodge Toyota Towing
jrbaja - 7-29-2004 at 01:27 PM
dbrooks, I just got the dodge because it was a really good deal. It is for hauling bamboo around and it now has rack made out of bamboo to haul more
bamboo around with. Toyotas are great, I've always disliked dodges, but it was an offer I couldn't refuse. And I'm poor!
Gernanicus. I will be using a tow bar to tow the truck. The only person I could think of putting in the towed vehicle for 800-900 miles would be my
ex wife. And, there's no need for that anymore
Thanks everyone again for all the help.
I'll see if Doug can put a picture of the old piece of crap on here.
Towing 4wd
senor pumpwire - 7-30-2004 at 10:25 PM
Hi JrBaja, the key to towing anyvehicle is to make sure the parts that will move and need lube get lube. If your front hubs are manual, unlock them,
and roll the truck while watching the front driveshaft. If it doesnt turn, they are unlocked and you are good to go for the front. If the hubs are
auto locking just push the truck forward and make sure the front driveshaft is not turning. Next thing is the rear axle. The rear axle will make the
driveshaft spin, which will spin the tailshaft of the transfeercase. If the t-case is designed so the lower parts of the t-case turn when the
tailshaft turns then gearoil will be moved around in the t-case and will lube the tailshaft bearings. If a moving tailshaft doesnt turn the lower
parts that sling the geearoil you probably would damage the tailshaft bearings. If it is like the driveshaft on my old 2wd Mitsubishi it is easy to
take off the shaft to tow, just make marks on the drivewshaft and rear axle flange so you can install it in the same balanced location. You may need
to plug or blockoff the place where the rear driveshaft eneters the transfercase to prevent leaking fluid. One way to do that is to leave the shaft
in the t-case and just wire the rear end of the driveshaft up out of harms way. There would be heck to pay if the engine was started and the gears
engaged without reconnecting the shaft!!!!! Good truck, good luck. Dave.
Bedman - 7-31-2004 at 01:32 AM
Bob and Susan,
Bajalou is absolutely right about the American to Japanese wiring. The little "box" that keeps you from pulling your hair out when trying to make all
the lights work has "Diodes" in it. Most all of the Truck and Trailer rental places sell them too. I have no idea "How they work", but they are a
necessity for ease of wiring.
The directions for the gear selections are for my 1984 Suzuki Sidekick and straight from my dog eared owners manual. The Sidekick and the Samurai are
all but identical. I also didn't mention to turn your front hubs to "Free" not "Locked".
---------------------------------------------
JR,
Senor Pumpwire covered All of the info and More, that I received late today from another Mechanic friend. All of his info is good and accurate.
----------------------------------------------
Senor Pumpwire,
Thank you very much for the timely information.
Bedman
Bob and Susan - 7-31-2004 at 02:11 PM
Bedman
Yea, I have that "magic box" I put a trailer hitch on the rear end.
I don't think it has enough power to pull too much, though, but I think it will pull the trash trailer to the dump near our place in Mulege.
The Suzuki is sure different from my Dodge 4x4.
No Locking hubs on the Dodge.
Thanks for you help.
Bedman - 8-1-2004 at 12:07 AM
Bob and Susan,
You'd be extremely surprised at the number of vehicles I've rescued from beaches all up and down the peninsula. Maybe as surprised as the owners of
those vehicles!! hehehehe.... The little SuzyQ that can. They're light enough to walk over the soft sand where the Big boys think they can go, but
can't and rock crawl with the best of them.
I used to have a Big Brute Landcruiser. V8 350ci with TRW pictons and rings, Holly double pumpers, small 3/4 cam, headers, hi rise intake, 4-11 gears,
Turbo 400 with inline shift yadda, yadda....
I love the sound and power of a Big 8 but the Suzy Q goes and goes and goes. And there is a ton of accessories for it. And I love the way they tow.
Did I mention I really like my little 4x4 ?
Bedman
Towing FWD Sammys do Rock!
senor pumpwire - 8-1-2004 at 07:53 AM
Hi Bedman, you are welcome for the info! i love to talk rigs. I agree that Sammys do rule. Next to my lightly modified vans I think the best baja
combo for extended trips would be a fullheight
short WB lightly converted schoolbus towing a Samurai. Or a Samurai towing a small geartrailer that converts to quick sleeping quarters in case of
rain. For the money and practicality I think Sammy and the bronco II are the most underrated wheelers ever in common use. Keep on cruising those
dirt highways!!
See Bedman's Photos, including his Suzuki:
David K - 8-1-2004 at 08:22 AM
At http://vivabaja.com/bedman2 (2002) and http://vivabaja.com/bedman (2001)
Toads
mcgyver - 8-1-2004 at 09:34 AM
Bedman ,you are right about Sammys! I towed my '88 1/2 over 40,000 miles including about 20 in gear one time at 60 MPH, when I discovered it ,the temp
was so high it was steaming,I figured it was done for, after cooling off it started and ran fine! I pulled it with my 27' Class A M/H and when I had
to go down a very steep grade like the Strawberry Valley to East Quiicy California road, crossing the Feather River ,I would put it in 4WD and 3rd
gear to help hold the M/H back!!
I sold both rigs when I quit fultime R/V ing but now have a '98 Geo Tracker with a hard top, not quite as good due to coil springs but still has
completed 186 K with only a clutch replacement recently. Its towed to Baja regularly and loves the sand.
I miss my Sammy rock crawler!!!
Toads
mcgyver - 8-1-2004 at 09:45 AM
An addition to my earlier post and inreference to disconecting batterys on "Sammy's and Geo's I never had to disconnect anything, both of mine had an
"Accessory"position on the key and thats where I put it on both of them.
For hooking up the lights use a diode, all auto parts stores have them.
Bedman's Suzuki at Las Pintas Fossil Grotto
David K - 8-1-2004 at 10:05 AM
Bedman - 8-2-2004 at 12:31 AM
Thanks for the foto David. That's my little Suzy Q and Daisy the Fastest runnin, Skinniest, most Lovable Gurly dog in Baja. She can lick your face in
the wink of an eye and be 15 feet away befor you can wipe off the wet kiss.
And here's cool item, you can buy at Harbor Freight Tools (I love that place) A 6,000 pound (rolling) winch that attaches to a regular ball hitch.
Weighs about 25 pounds and is about the size of a bread box. 30 feet of 5,000 pound cable and a wired remote switch. Hook the battery clips up and
away you go. I haven't used it yet, but I sure like it's size.
Bedman
Bedman - 8-2-2004 at 12:47 AM
McGyver,
Your Sooo right. I sometimes amaze myself by the number of things I forget. (Or do automatically and don't realize it.) I turn the key on to the
"Accessory Position" for two reasons.
#1 To unlock the steering wheel (most important)
#2 To assist the Towing vehicles battery in lighting up the brake, running and turn lights.
Bedman
Bob and Susan - 8-2-2004 at 05:53 AM
Boys and their toys!!!
Susan
Bedman
jrbaja - 8-2-2004 at 01:14 PM
How much for the winch ?
Bedman - 8-2-2004 at 07:06 PM
JR, I bought 2 of them a year ago and haven't even used mine yet...... Gosh...it's still in the box! they were cheap...like $69.00 U.S. !! I'll have
to check out and see if they still have them.....if you want one let me know.
The label reads as follows:
"CHICAGO"
ELECTRIC POWER TOOLS
#43331 Portable winch, 12 volt
Capacity: 6,000 lbs rolling
2,000 lbs pulling
5,000 lbs Marine cable
Bedman
Bedman - 8-2-2004 at 08:01 PM
JR,
On a whim I went to Harbor Freight tools and looked up item #43331 and the winch popped up. Check it out at http://www.harborfreight.com/
and I was a little off on the price.......it's $59.99
Bedman
Muchas gracias Amigo
jrbaja - 8-2-2004 at 08:45 PM
2 winches, a block and tackle, a ground anchor,
so far up to about $300.00 u.s.,
I can be visiting all parts of Baja in my lowered Ford Pinto
Great info Bedman, I will be checking it out and unfortunately, probably having to use it. 