BajaNomad - Sophisticated South African Weapons Among Arms Seized from Mexican Gangs

Sophisticated South African Weapons Among Arms Seized from Mexican Gangs

BajaNews - 8-20-2010 at 04:26 PM

http://www.laht.com/article.asp?ArticleId=363736&Categor...

By Edna Alcantara

MEXICO CITY – The Mexican army and police have seized 180,000 arms over the past three and a half years from organized-crime gangs, mainly drug cartels, including sophisticated, deadly weapons manufactured in South Africa, the Defense Department, or Sedena, said.

A 40mm grenade launcher capable of firing up to six grenades in 30 seconds and a disposable projectile launcher are among the South African weapons seized recently from Mexican drug traffickers, Gen. Antonio Monsivais, head of Sedena’s War Materiel warehouse, said Wednesday.

Most of the confiscated weapons (many brought into the country from the United States) arrive at that warehouse and are later destroyed, Monsivais said, adding that the cartels are seeking to bolster their arsenals and even get their hands on arms intended for the exclusive use of the military in different countries.

The gangs obtain many of these weapons in exchange for drugs, he added.

A total of 79,074 firearms seized from organized-crime groups are being kept under close watch at the Sedena warehouse – opened to the press for the first time on Wednesday – until they are eventually destroyed.

The weapons arrive at this storage facility, located in a military zone of the Mexican capital, after passing through several checkpoints manned by armed soldiers.

Other weapons being stored at the warehouse include AR-15 and AK-47 assault rifles, different types of grenades – including Israeli-made grenades – and .50-caliber Barrett rifles capable of penetrating armor and downing helicopters at a distance of two kilometers (1.2 miles).

The Mexican states where the largest number of seizures of these types of weapons has occurred are (in order): Baja California, Michoacan, Chihuahua, Coahuila, Tamaulipas and the Federal District (Mexico City).

Drug-trafficking gangs and other organized crime groups are known to operate in those jurisdictions, which have been especially hard hit by turf battles in recent years.

About 28,000 people have died in drug-related violence nationwide since President Felipe Calderon militarized the war on Mexico’s cartels shortly after taking office in December 2006.

More than 7,000 gangland killings have occurred so far this year in Mexico, Attorney General Arturo Chavez Chavez said last month.

Gen. Monsivais also said authorities have found weapons altered by criminals to increase their potency, such as AR-15 assault rifles that have been adapted to give them the force of a .50-caliber Barrett.

He said two or three of every 1,000 AR-15 rifles seized were modified, while between 20 and 30 of every 100 AK-47 rifles were altered.

But the general said that despite the type of weapons in the possession of the drug-trafficking gangs, their firepower still does not exceed that of the Mexican armed forces and police.

The warehouse has a special workshop for destroying seized weapons, only 5 percent of which will be reused for military training or to be displayed in military or civilian museums.

A small exhibition of high-powered weaponry also was on display at the storage facility, including Barrett rifles, M60 machine guns, pistols and jewel-incrusted rifles that were once the property of Mexican drug lords.

In destroying the arms, the metal pieces are divided into three parts and are sold as scrap, while the wood pieces are incinerated.

DENNIS - 8-20-2010 at 04:37 PM

As long as South Africa doesn't supply the cartels with VUVUZELAS, everything else is manageable.

Now, THAT's certainly reassuring.

MrBillM - 8-20-2010 at 10:16 PM

"But the general said that despite the type of weapons in the possession of the drug-trafficking gangs, their firepower still does not exceed that of the Mexican armed forces and police".

Only missing is the word "yet".

I thought all that stuff came from the local U.S. Sporting Goods store.

Cypress - 8-21-2010 at 05:54 AM

Sounds like they "cooked the books" on the guns. Did the same thing on global warming and got caught. Don't hear as much about global warming being caused by human activity lately.

Mexicorn - 8-21-2010 at 09:05 AM

E-Gads! I'm going to leave the chopper in San Diego next time I head down to the "Splash" to have a beer! The nerve of those pesky drug gangs bedazzeling their rifles and hand guns in rhinestones!
They should have a law passed addressing their bad taste! :mad:

RHINESTONES ON MACHINE GUNS?

bajajazz - 8-21-2010 at 09:34 AM

And maybe sequins, too? That sounds pretty over-the-top gay to me. Is the drug business part of a secret plot for the gaze to take over the world? Does the Catholic Church know about this? Or does that kind of knowledge interfere with their money washing business?

DENNIS - 8-21-2010 at 09:38 AM

Decorated weapons, eh. Are these cartel folks?

http://www.everydaynodaysoff.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/...

bajaguy - 8-23-2010 at 09:15 AM

Interesting that the article fails to state how many weapons seized/recovered were from the Mexican military.

Not Surprising

MrBillM - 8-23-2010 at 09:26 AM

The whole numbers thing is whatever they think sounds good at the time. That's why they were so happy with throwing around the U.S. 90 percent figure for so long. Mexico has ALWAYS loved blaming ANYTHING they could on the U.S. I used to read the Mexican papers on a regular basis and once said that, "If the average tourist read this, they'd stay home".

And, mentioning the weapons taken from the military wouldn't sound good at ANY time.

bajaguy - 8-23-2010 at 09:37 AM

A large number of weapons, explosives and military supplies and equipment are supplied to the Mexican military by the US.....and other foreign countries.........

It would stand to reason that if military type weapons were seized or recovered they would be from the US or other foreign (South Africa) countries.

A disposable projectile launcher (similar to a LAW or an AT-4) can't be bought at a gun show or the local gun shop.

k-rico - 8-23-2010 at 10:17 AM

gee, great vandenberg, I'm sure everyone appreciates you taking the time to post gore. :rolleyes:

Bajahowodd - 8-23-2010 at 10:34 AM

k-rico- my first impression upon seeing the photo that Ed posted was similar to yours. But, upon reflection, I have to wonder whether we, as a society, a nation, are served better or worse by a media that sanitizes the brutality around us, be it the awful ravages of the wars that our sons and daughters are fighting, or the cartel carnage. We've become a society that responds more to visual stimulus than words. Just wondering.

Bajahowodd - 8-23-2010 at 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajahowodd
k-rico- my first impression upon seeing the photo that Ed posted was similar to yours. But, upon reflection, I have to wonder whether we, as a society, a nation, are served better or worse by a media that sanitizes the brutality around us, be it the awful ravages of the wars that our sons and daughters are fighting, or the cartel carnage. We've become a society that responds more to visual stimulus than words. Just wondering.

There's a proper time and place for everything. This belongs elsewhere, in my opinion.

Not going to disagree with you about this not being the place for that photo, Dennis. But seeing it, and the fact that it was from a foreign paper made me think that perhaps in the greater scheme of things, we, as a nation wouldn't be so willing to tolerate the atrocities people do against others, if we had a true picture of the results.

Bajahowodd - 8-23-2010 at 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by k-rico
It's very weird that some folks think posting photos like that is OK but posting a photo of a beautiful naked woman with a smile on her face is not.

But, similar to something that has always puzzled me, in the US getting paid to have sixx is illegal unless you video it and sell DVDs in stores.

??????????

Both of your observations are about the puritanical roots of our country. On the second point, however, getting paid to have sixx, if it's a movie, is where the 1st amendment free speech clause is invoked. When you make a movie, in the broadest of definitions, it is art, and therefore free speech. The other thing is just prostitution. Go figure.

vandenberg - 8-23-2010 at 10:52 AM

Okay guys, sorry.
Maybe wasn't the place to put this.
Couldn't believe however to find this in a conservative Dutch paper that I delivered as a kid.

[Edited on 8-23-2010 by vandenberg]

DENNIS - 8-23-2010 at 11:00 AM

Thanks, Ed. It wouldn't have lasted long anyway.

k-rico - 8-23-2010 at 11:03 AM

Thanks for taking it down. There are gory photos like that a lot in Mexican papers. I think people just get used to it. - Which is a huge problem.

BUT ?

MrBillM - 8-23-2010 at 09:43 PM

"...............I think people just get used to it. - Which is a huge problem".

On the other hand, it's argued (by Liberals often) that exposing the public to the Graphic Horrors (of War, Execution, etc ) will make them more receptive and determined to effect change.

Which is it ?

JESSE - 8-23-2010 at 09:56 PM

Jesus Christ!!! in all of my years in Tijuana, and i know plenty of people who went to the dark side, i have NEVER, EVER, heard anybody buying weapons from anywhere but the U.S. I am 100% certain because i have seen it with my own eyes, that most guns, do come from the U.S.

Why can't some people simply assume this responsability? why can't they accept this well know FACT.

I am sure some cartels in southern Mexico do get some guns from central america, and some might come from other nations, but the bulk of the weapons is definately coming from the U.S.

Stop trying to lie about it, stop trying to create an argument where non exists.

DENNIS - 8-24-2010 at 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by JESSE

Why can't some people simply assume this responsability? why can't they accept this well know FACT.

I accept it. I'm willing to say all of the guns came from the US.
The problem is, it's not an issue of US carelessness;..it's a matter of our Constitution. Until that changes, guns will be available. Sad, but true.

Dumb, Dumber and just plain Stupid.

MrBillM - 8-24-2010 at 04:16 PM

Jesse KNOWS because He's SEEN it.

I know that Kangaroos come from Los Angeles because that city's zoo is the only place I've seen one in person.

The absurdity of determining facts from personal empirical evidence has been explored in greater detail than I ever want to, but it's enough to know that it's pretty dumb to do so. I'm sitting here thinking of ALL the FACTS I could list (including quite a few about Mexico) that MUST be true because that's what I've seen, but I'm known as one of those harmonious souls who doesn't like to offend people except when absolutely necessary. And, I feel guilty even then that I may have hurt someone's feelings.

Even the corrupt lying Mexican bureaucracy or the Obama Butt-Lappers don't try to float one as absurd as Jessie and this one.

As once said in court on another subject, IF Jesse is as sure of his facts on other matters as he is on this one, then we know what value to be placed on those assertions.

The Guns that come into Mex from the U.S. do so because it it more convenient than bringing them in from overseas which they're doing with the heavier stuff. IF the U.S. sources were totally eliminated (impossible) then they'd start buying the run-of-the-mill stuff overseas at a higher price which they could still afford. Or, they'd simply bribe more Mexican Military authorities which seems easy enough.

Bajahowodd - 8-24-2010 at 04:22 PM

I'm totally with Jesse on this. Whatever blather emanates from a single wide in Duroville notwithstanding, even so many years after the end of the cold war, the two nations that provide cover for illicit weapons sales and distribution are Russia and the US. Wonderful bedfellows, eh?

Fighting the GOOD Fight.

MrBillM - 8-24-2010 at 04:43 PM

Worldwide Weapons sales provide JOBS for Americans and contribute to Entrepreneurship in the Third-World.

They serve a very important service, especially in much of Africa, the Balkans and elsewhere by enabling and enhancing continued societal culling and reorganization, even though some of those African "Freedom Fighters" (they're ALL that, aren't they ?) try to get by on the cheap with Machetes and tires soaked in fuel. Those that care enough to do the best prefer Firearms. Quick, Clean, Efficient and cost-effective.

While helping the American economy.

Bajahowodd - 8-24-2010 at 05:06 PM

Sleeping well at night trumps such economic gains. Just as there has been an ongoing process to rein in nuclear weapons, why cannot the powers who have allowed weapons trafficking seek a same such agreement. Selling weapons only results in deaths.

JESSE - 8-24-2010 at 05:32 PM

Anybody that wants to challenge my claim, fell free to see a pretty good list with photos of arms confiscated to drug cartels in the past years, and then come back and try to claim it isnt so. The photos don't lie, as this is a collection of photos taken from news articles from different sources, documenting this problem.

BE ADVICED, SOME PHOTOS IN THE THREAD, ARE GRAPHIC.

http://bit.ly/97RptI

[Edited on 8-25-2010 by JESSE]

DENNIS - 8-24-2010 at 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JESSE
The photos don't lie, as this is a collection of photos taken from news articles from different sources, documenting this problem.

For Chrissakes, Jesse....you ofer a tit's 'n ass website to illustrate your point. Is that the best you can do?
I'm starting to lose faith in you, son.

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?156820-W...

[Edited on 8-25-2010 by DENNIS]

JESSE - 8-24-2010 at 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by JESSE
The photos don't lie, as this is a collection of photos taken from news articles from different sources, documenting this problem.

For Chrissakes, Jesse....you ofer a tit's 'n burro website to illustrate your point. Is that the best you can do?
I'm starting to lose faith in you, son.

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?156820-W...

[Edited on 8-25-2010 by DENNIS]

I could care less, the facts are there, the images are there, dozens and dozens of different seizures all over the country over many years, and its pretty clear most of the weapons come from the U.S.

You can stick your head in the sand as much as you want, but its a fact, anybody that wants a weapon, gets it from the US, and brings it down to Mexico. I laugh at the cheap attempts by some that want to deflect blame to other countries. Its a joke and everybody here know it.

Guns from central america? LOL!!!! never in my life have i heard such bull.

DENNIS - 8-24-2010 at 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JESSE

I could care less, the facts are there,

The facts may be somewhere, but why don't you do some reasonable research to back up your point?
You are just so typically effing Mexican that you don't think credibility has anything to do with what you try to pass off as fact.
What's next, numbnuts....a porn site to explain your Constitution?
Just because you and your garbage government say something doesn't make it a fact.
Do your gawwwdammmm homework and get real.

Bajahowodd - 8-24-2010 at 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by fishabductor
Several of the guns were:

AK47s....Made in Romania, China, and Russia and elsewhere
SKS.....Made in China and elsewhere.

[Edited on 8-25-2010 by fishabductor]

The country of manufacture is irrelevant. Go into a gun shop in Texas. You think all that armament is all US made? Like go to a car dealership. They're all made here too!??? Not. The point is that the US has become an international source for weapons. Country of origin doesn't matter.

Country of Origin

MrBillM - 8-24-2010 at 09:56 PM

Have to agree there. Most of my collection is of U.S. production, but I've got one SKS from China and one from Russia. AKM from Yugoslavia.

Along with Handguns from Brazil and Hungary.

The AK-Series of weapons are produced in so many Formerly Soviet-Bloc countries and in China that production was ceased in Russia due to declining sales. There are more than enough to go around, though.

Thank God.

What would be interesting is to actually KNOW the various models since U.S. import laws have resulted in many of the models not being imported which would mean they had to come from overseas sources. But, we'll never get the straight story. Only what benefits their plan.

Not to worry, though. November's results will put Jihad Obi's disarmament plans on the Back-Burner. He's going to have other things to worry about.

The fact remains that the MAJORITY of the imported weapons could not be proved to have a U.S. origin despite what Sir Hillary and the Mex govt peddles.

Hard to believe, I know, given that Jesse has personally witnessed every weapons import. Must have happened while he was taking a leak. A number of times. Those Grenades, RPGs and Ma Deuces would have been hard to miss.

[Edited on 8-25-2010 by MrBillM]

JESSE - 8-24-2010 at 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by JESSE

I could care less, the facts are there,

The research has been done, theres a lot of info pointing to that fact. Think about it. It is far harder to transport something illegal from south to north (as most of us know), and far easier to transport things from north to south. I HAVE NEVER heard any news of any gun shipments, confiscated from southern Mexico to the north, EVER! How is that possible? how can it be that 90+ of all weapons seizures, are from north to south? IF the claim that a big chunk of the weapons come from southern Mexico was true, and considering how hard it is to get things from south to north, we would have the proper seizures, and that is not happening.

Theres a lot more logical facts, but those that won't accept responsability, will dance around the issue for ever.

JESSE - 8-24-2010 at 10:57 PM

Look!!! 147 BRAND NEW AK-47's in their boxes confiscated. They MUST be from China or else right? WRONG! these where confiscated in the U.S. bound for Mexico.

147 fully automatic AK-47 assault rifles, 263 high capacity magazines, 53 bayonets and 10,000 rounds of ammunition on Saturday, May 30 in the border city of Laredo Tx.

JESSE - 8-24-2010 at 10:59 PM

Theres clearly many weapons that do come from other nations, but the majority without a doubt, come from the U.S.

Now, i am not blaming the U.S. for the violence here, but there is some responsability, specially when guns like this one can be aquired by civilians:

[Edited on 8-25-2010 by JESSE]

flyfishinPam - 8-25-2010 at 06:49 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by JESSE

The research has been done, theres a lot of info pointing to that fact. Think about it. It is far harder to transport something illegal from south to north (as most of us know), and far easier to transport things from north to south. ....will dance around the issue for ever.

that is exactly the problem. i must side with Mr Bill on this issue. This is Mexico's problem and until Mexico quits blaming everyone else for their own problems we will never solve them.

i believe many of the photos of the captures are staged as have been proven on several occasions. it is hard to believe much of what comes out of the government's blowhole (on both sides of the border) with the shenanigans that go on.

fact is guns are legal in the USA as per the second ammendment of the US oconstitution which I fully support but Mexico wants a selectively porous border...undesirables out, money in, ~~guns in~~ duhoohh must be the gringos fault. and Mexico has the nerve to try and convince the US government and its citizens to consider limiting their own rights.

I am willing to (and have and continue to) study Mexican history and this enables me to understand why things are the way they are here in Mexico. The US deserves the same respect. Before Jesse or any Mexican tries to tip the scales with their opinions on how the US should run its house, please study the reasons as to why citizens of the US have these rights you question.

this is a two way street. Mexico needs to understand that. i am a Mexican and I believe in strengthening Mexico not enabling the weakening as has been done for too many years. sometimes the truth isn't what one wants to hear but in order to move forward through life one must face it.

toneart - 8-25-2010 at 10:30 AM

I am inclined to believe Jesse. Those bimbos on his website have convinced me. :lol:

k-rico - 8-25-2010 at 12:11 PM

There are 7000 gun stores within 100 miles of the Mexican border. Mexicans pay Americans to buy the guns (strawman purchases). Licensed American gun dealers are selling these guns knowing full well where they are going. An ATF spokesman called the gun runners an army of ants, each one purchasing a small number and heading south. You can triple your money buying guns in the US and selling them in Mexico. There is no control over the sale of ammunition. I've read anybody can buy as much as they want.

Of course American gun dealers are profiting from the cartel wars. They know it and don't care, hey it's legal afterall.

[Edited on 8-25-2010 by k-rico]

JESSE - 8-25-2010 at 12:16 PM

For the record, i am not blaming the U.S., at least i am not putting most of the blame on that side of the border, but the guns are mostly coming from there. Thats all i want clear up.

Cypress - 8-25-2010 at 12:40 PM

What side of the border do the killers come from?

Woooosh - 8-25-2010 at 01:12 PM

Why are we still worried about gun origin in this war? No one, no country, no border is going to change the law of supply and demand. It's a distraction. Mexico is imploding and spinning in circles at the same time. The peso is at 13:1, the corrupt federal government lets prisoners out of jail at night to commit crimes against random innocent citizens, the police kill their own mayor, the cartels own everybody. There is just too much frigging money involved for a third world country to handle it.

You could stop the flow of guns south, but taking those measures would also stop the flow of things to the north too- which is unacceptable to Mexico. There is no tangible solution and Mexico and her people will suffer much worse until they realize that. This drug war will be the second time Mexico has been conquered- and this time they don't get Spanish cuisine as a consolation prize.

[Edited on 8-25-2010 by Woooosh]

k-rico - 8-25-2010 at 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cypress
What side of the border do the killers come from?

Weak.

The Mexican drug cartel bosses would love your logic. What side of the border do the users come from? They (the cartels) are just suppliers. Where's the harm?

Woooosh - 8-25-2010 at 11:42 PM

they must be plagiarizing me again...

The narcos that dangled the emasculated bodies over the bridges the past few days in Acapulco left a message threatening extortionists, kidnappers, police and the Mexican army. If they'd just stop working after the extortionists and kidnappers, I'd be fine with it.

Dave - 8-26-2010 at 12:20 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by k-rico

Quote:

Originally posted by Cypress
What side of the border do the killers come from?

Weak.

The Mexican drug cartel bosses would love your logic. What side of the border do the users come from? They (the cartels) are just suppliers. Where's the harm?

I agree. I own several guns and have never murdered anyone.

And...the cartels are simply selling dope to dopes. In this, I wish them continued success.

k-rico - 8-26-2010 at 02:09 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave

And...the cartels are simply selling dope to dopes. In this, I wish them continued success.

So you don't care about the families of drug addicts who are struggling with a loved one's addictive demise.

You say tough luck to the victims of robberies by addicts to support their habit?

Childern of addicts? -oops, jeez, what a shame.

What about the cost to society? No problem?

Addicts hurt a lot more people than just themselves.

[Edited on 8-26-2010 by k-rico]

k-rico - 8-26-2010 at 02:23 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave

I own several guns and have never murdered anyone.

Well Bravo!! Do you consider the fact that you've never murdered anyone an accomplishment?

[Edited on 8-26-2010 by k-rico]

Cypress - 8-26-2010 at 05:51 AM

Drugs and guns. A song comes to mind, "The Road goes on forever and the Party never ends".