BajaNomad - Life after the Next Presidental Election with the Cartels

Life after the Next Presidental Election with the Cartels

rocmoc - 8-24-2010 at 06:43 AM

I have been talking with some local Mexican friends and the feeling is that after the next Mexican Presidential election a negotiated peace with the Cartels will return to Mexico. The Cartels were around before Fox and the PRI party more or less ran a franchise of the areas & routes to the USA. With the move to legalize some or all drugs in Mexico and the feeling why should Mexico pay with its blood for a USA addiction, the PRI have been winning the elections. 9 of the 12 Governors elections were won by the PRI in the last July election. Cartel money is all over the candidates & is the 3rd or 4th income generator for Mexico. I believe along with my friends SOB that after the next Presidential election the new Prez will end the war on the Cartels and peace will return for the most part in Mexico as it was before Fox. The USA will have to step up their game or change its attitude towards drugs. What ya think?

rocmoc n AZ/Baja

durrelllrobert - 8-24-2010 at 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by rocmoc
ICartel money is all over the candidates & is the 3rd or 4th income generator for Mexico.

a live and let live attitude in MX should pump that up to 2nd or 3rd :lol:

Martyman - 8-24-2010 at 09:17 AM

After California passes weed legalization in November, cartel business should drop, at least for pot smuggling.

Pompano - 8-24-2010 at 09:50 AM

If there is a consideration of 'a negotiated peace' with drug dealers and murderers ..then you are already defeated.

This is a modern civilized society?

DENNIS - 8-24-2010 at 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pompano

This is a modern civilized society?

They're desperate, Roger. I can almost understand their dilema. They're fighting a war similar to ours in Afghanistan where the enemy strength is unknown and they have no identifiable markings. Guerrilla wars are difficult to control.
The strength of the enemy forces can be blamed, in a large part, on unemployment so it's accurate to say Mexico has caused it's own problems.
Another factor....when de La Madrid took office as president, he inherited an empty treasury. He too was desperate so he approached the cartels of that day and made a deal...."You leave your money in Mexico and we'll leave you alone."
No checks and balances were in place and the cartel influence grew to huge proportions and out of control by the time the government woke up.
When they did come to their senses, it was too late.
I think that's where we are today.

CHAPO GUZMAN FOR PRESIDENT?

bajajazz - 8-24-2010 at 12:06 PM

The speculation that the next president may attempt to forge some kind of "peace" agreement with the cartels may be correct, as actually winning the "war on drugs" would throw Mexico into deep economic recession.

However, it is a dangerous mistake for Mexicans to think that only the USA suffers the degradations that come with a drug-addicted population. For decades, Mexicans thought their own population was immune to the drug disease, that only expendable Gringos were the victims. Not so. Mexico's domestic drug problem began in a major way when the Colombians started paying the cartels in drugs, not money, for the rights to tranship dope across Mexico and into the U.S. and Canada. The cartels converted the drugs to currency by dealing dope bigtime to the indigenous population, and then branched out into kidnapping and extortion rackets.

Any "peace" that breaks out between the next president and the cartels is chimerical nonsense.

[Edited on 8-24-2010 by bajajazz]

gnukid - 8-24-2010 at 12:08 PM

All Wisdom of BN: simple questions for all knowing Nomads.

Are markets created by accident or on purpose?

Does Jose carry all the drugs in the back of his van to LA and then return to MX with the bags of money? in secrecy?

Are drug routes a new phenomenon?

What role do institutions/governments play in the market?

Where does the massive profit go? To fixup Jose's van?

Who are 'they', whose drug war?

Who benefits? Who profits? Who loses? Who suffers?

toneart - 8-24-2010 at 02:41 PM

Many of you should remember, I predicted that a negotiated settlement between the government and the cartels is the only way to stop the violence. I have been saying this way before there was any speculation in the press. It will happen!

You may remember also that I predicted a total world economic collapse. That too will happen. We are in the last couple of years, or maybe months away. . Those who are running things; banks, corporations and politicians are clueless. They will be the least equipped to solve the new world order.

This is not a bad thing. This will be a new beginning, to be solved by community-minded people who operate on a higher plane. (I am not talking about apocalypse or religious rapture). Most here will laugh. A few, who know what I am talking about, will survive and move forward...here on earth.

Some Nomads ask me for evidence/proof, etc. I am not in the loop, thank God! I just figure these things out. I am also clairvoyant, but revealing this has earned me a tinfoil hat by elinvestig8r, and scoffs by others. :smug:

Bajahowodd - 8-24-2010 at 04:03 PM

The California marijuana initiative is currently on life support. No one with any money is willing to fund it. Politicians are dissing it. Poll numbers have declined for months. In the event that it did pass, it would still be in major conflict with federal law. so, don't bet on it. Note: I don't smoke pot and I support the initiative.

As for the Mexico election, one thing I haven't seen posted is the fact that the PRD candidate almost won last time. So, I'm not so sure that PRI has anything in the bag. I so think that it would be a good bet to believe that unless Calderon is able to pull a conejo out of his sombrero, PAN will not have the next president.

Back to PRD. don't get all itchy about a so-called socialist party. Socialists have been getting elected in Latin America regularly over the past few years. Third world countries have to be ready to accept conservative, pro-business leaders. If there is little to no middle class, it just may be the best answer.

DENNIS - 8-24-2010 at 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by toneart
Many of you should remember, I predicted that a negotiated settlement between the government and the cartels is the only way to stop the violence. I have been saying this way before there was any speculation in the press. It will happen!

It's foolish to think it hasn't already happened. I mean, it doesn't have to be a big deal formal sit-down dinner celebrating the occurance and that won't happen anyway....yet.
What we see today is collusion between ultra high ranking government officials in Mexico and the cartels. It's already a fact.
How can the US government ignore this street news? Are they part of the diversion as well?
The US government goes out of it's way to ignore the activities of the enemy on our border and within our boundrys, so much that I have to wonder.
What is their grand sceme of things and our lives?

I'm scared chitless over these issues.

Bajahowodd - 8-24-2010 at 04:23 PM

Activia! :lol:

DENNIS - 8-24-2010 at 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by fishabductor
Wonder whatt would happen if the mexican government asked the US for military help in fighting the cartels...It is basically our war to begin with.

I wonder what would be the reaction from the mexican people. Would they welcome the help or fight it?

No way. Never. We "stole" their land and we invaded them as an enemy. Twice.
Along with that, the government would never publically align themselves with the scapegoat that eats the crap they cause.

Nunca Nunca Nunca

We help Mexico by being their Great Satan. They teach their people to hate us so they won't hate those responsible for their problems, the government.

Been this way for freakin years.

.

[Edited on 8-24-2010 by DENNIS]

DENNIS - 8-24-2010 at 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajahowodd
If there is little to no middle class, it just may be the best answer.

But, that's the way it was here, in my lifetime, for years. People drove good cars or they rode the bus.
Now, there are good cars everywhere and people have purchasing power.
In my opinion, this is made possible because they don't have monthly mortgages to attend to. They buy there homes, for reasonable prices, and at the end of the month, what they earn is theirs.

Bajahowodd - 8-24-2010 at 04:36 PM

Dennis is mostly Correct. despite that on the grass roots cultural level, especially in the Southwest, where Mexican food, music and art is embraced, way long ago, a love hate relationship was established on a formal level. Some refer to it as Mexican pride. As for me, I would love to see Mexico and the US as a single nation. But it ain't gonna happen. I realize that what I mentioned was way far beyond the idea of sending our military in. But, one must consider that in the recent past, sending our military in, is synonymous with occupation.

gnukid - 8-24-2010 at 04:39 PM

Quote:

The US has funded and coopted the Mexican Military with the Merida initiative also called Mexico Plan (like Columbia plan or Costa Rica) which includes cross border exercises, equipment, thousands of embedded agents, and also bloggers to aid in the war on drugs. This agreement funded $400 million of cooperative exercises in 2009 and 1.6billion over three years.

This Meridia initiative was a signed agreement by Bush post SPP agreement, post NAFTA. These actions follow previous similar actions which funded and trained elites military who later left to start the Zetas Cartel.

Recently it was announced by Obama that he would fund an additional $600 million of cross border support to coopt the national guard. While yesterday El Paso was reportedly shut down in cross fire.

While I admit to be uninformed and not a watcher of TV or reader of newspapers, as apparently many or most are, the polices are public, the results are public, the facts are well known, there is nothing new to this trade. It is reported daily in detail, who ships drugs, what routes, who profits, which banks launder the most, who supports it, which planes, who gets off.

If you are claiming to be uninformed and apparently many are here, its a conscious decision to block out the the information, its understandable though it is not to your benefit to fail to be aware of reality and how you affect that reality.

If you would like to learn more use a search engine like google or any other engine and use a general search.

Terms to search could be BCCI drug money, CIA drug plane, Military train Zeta, CIA Mexico drug, banks launder drug money, CIA funds drug trade, etc... ad infinitum. You would have to be living in a closet to not know about the US Military/DIA involvement in the trillions of dollars fiasco. Ask about Mena Arkansas, Venice Florida, Afghanistan... US military in Costa Rica... why?

[Edited on 8-24-2010 by gnukid]

DENNIS - 8-24-2010 at 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by gnukid

The US has funded and coopted the Mexican Military with the Merida initiative also called Mexico Plan (like Columbia plan or Costa Rica) which includes cross border exercises, equipment, thousands of embedded agents, and also bloggers to aid in the war on drugs. This agreement funded $400 million of cooperative exercises in 2009 and 1.6billion over three years.

Let's not forget that we trained the Zetas in drug interdiction. We showed them how to do it all.

Now they're a cartel.

One of our most proud achievements.

.

gnukid - 8-24-2010 at 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Let's not forget that we trained the Zetas in drug interdiction. We showed them how to do it all.

Now they're a cartel.

One of our most proud achievements.

.

Have you ever heard of hiding in the open? So here you state what is known to be a fact, and a paragraph above in your own words you state that the US military would never be invited to infiltrate the Mexican Military or Cartels, yet in the next paragraph you brag that it happened. Yet in your mind it was an accident. It would never happen on purpose. So apparently when ever something detrimental occurs, it was a rare accident, and when something good happens it was planned on purpose. Yet any Military trained person knows, nothing happens by accident, everything is planned and executed following training and instruction.

Of course each of us are somehow dealing with this conundrum daily, it's commonly called cognitive dissonance-when something occurs against our sensibilities we rationalize it as a rare accident.

[Edited on 8-24-2010 by gnukid]

Bajahowodd - 8-24-2010 at 04:57 PM

We also trained Al Qaeda. Aren't we wonderful? Nothing we can't do.

DENNIS - 8-24-2010 at 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by gnukid
So here you state what is known to be a fact, and a paragraph above in your own words you state that the US military would never be invited to infiltrate the Mexican Military or Cartels, yet in the next paragraph you brag that it happened.

They were trained on US soil.
I won't continue with the conversation until you acknowlege this fact.

gnukid - 8-24-2010 at 05:06 PM

Funny how, many know the Mujahadeen were created and funded by CIA backed efforts to become the Al Ciada, Ziebigneiw Brezinzki top security advisor and CFR advisor brags about it too, opium trade is up thanks to our effort, yet there is total disconnect that these actions in Afghanistan to produce and ship Opium, or in Mexico to produce and ship drugs, these are interconnected between us all, the Whitehouse, the media, the banks, it's people, it's us, we allow it and create it by our denial and our collective cognitive dissonance or we stop it by critical discussion, thinking and awareness.

Sometimes I wonder if people who have been in denial their whole lives can become informed and aware of their participation in reality to cause or create reality while in their retirement... Some people are increasingly close minded and not very aware.

toneart - 8-24-2010 at 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajahowodd
We also trained Al Qaeda. Aren't we wonderful? Nothing we can't do.

You beat me to it! :yes:

DENNIS - 8-24-2010 at 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by gnukid
I have no idea, if you say so. We do know that US are in Mexico, we know because they are involved in arrests and actions throughout. Everytime something goes down, they are there-reportedly for the good of country.

I hope you're right, but prove it. I want solid proof.

gnukid - 8-24-2010 at 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

I hope you're right, but prove it. I want solid proof.

I think you make a good point, I link to countless articles, perhaps thousands of articles discussing the actions and then you say prove it. Previously you say US Military isn't involved in Mexico, then you say they created and trained the Zetas (but not in Mexico).

So, there you have it, it is difficult for people to accept the facts as they are, as obvious as they are and well reported.

It's uncomfortable.

If you have an interest, follow the links I provided previously or do your own research and make up your own mind and decide for yourself. We are not in a position to argue with each other, or to make sense of this.